Guild Wars 2

Hey guys! It’s been a while since I last stuck my nose into PvP, mostly due to the lack of variation. Anyway, back then (~ four months ago) elementalists were deemed to be rather weak. Not enough damage in relation to our squishiness, everybody said. I played a dual dagger build, you know, the one that nearly everybody was/is playing and did quite good. I didn’t share the opinion of the naysayers in the forums and ingame chats.
Somehow, this changed. Since when do people think of the elementalist as one of the strongest, most effective classes? I can’t find anything grave in the patchnotes.

People figured out how to play like tanks.

I believe it started when some people posted a few videos of them playing 0/10/0/30/30 and 1vX in WvW.

This then caused an influx of people playing the spec and it became the go-to spec, thus people got to know how strong it was.

designers think that elementals is OP. since it still have 1 viable specc left.
dagger/dagger. and in the hands of a top 1 % player. it can actually kill people.

iam guessing the designers have been ganked a few times in wvw or pvp when they played their thief or mesmer..
“wtf, they cant kill me, iam designer, iam GOD… NERF-BAT HOOOO”.

happed to engineers.. 100nades. “wtf.. NERF”.

and still a thief can run in and 1 hit ppl, and then just stealth to get away.
i have heard people in guild getting 1 hit.. 17k + hp. poff.

its not so much as damage what makes eles OP its the fact eles can continuosly heal from 40-25% hp back to 100% over and over while keeping all boons up indefinetly and cleaning all conditions as well .

Put it this way, me and a buddy took our two PVT geared d/d eles against 10-15 players, and not only did we get numerous kills, but it took them 18 minutes to kill us just once. He buddy I mentioned was streaming at the time, and he highlighted our epic fight.

Enjoy : http://www.twitch.tv/saetiasc/c/1827679

We have high mobility, and numerous ways to get out of trouble.

Leuca is right, people learned how to play ele tanky.

The reason I usually call it overpowered is because I see it as a one-spec-fits-all build. Maybe I just haven’t played it enough to get a real feel for it, but there doesn’t seem to be any common scenarios where that type of D/D spec is not useful.

The effectiveness of the build will just end up being dependent upon player skill, which is fine. But when you have a particular set up that is effective in all situations, it becomes almost impossible for others to counter and hard for players of the eles to find strong justification for other specs.

It’s not that those sorts of D/D specs are unbeatable, but I’ve found it hard to feel like I don’t have the advantage when using it. I don’t want to see widespread nerfs or anything, but such dominance of a single build is not good for further innovation and makes for a more boring PvP competitive scene.

They became Op when every single one of them got sick of being 1-2 shot in 1-2 seconds by everyone & their granny, so were forced into going tanky so they could tolerate the “balance” in this game ;p

Fishbait.6723:

They became Op when every single one of them got sick of being 1-2 shot in 1-2 seconds by everyone & their granny, so were forced into going tanky so they could tolerate the “balance” in this game ;p

I find it funny this happened to engies too
But anyways yes, once eles figured out you could play tanky in their classes it was like if the eles gave themselves their own super patch

Because, just from the 30 points in water, Elementalist can have 3 utilities that:

• Give Regen
• Give Vigor
• Remove Condition
• Stunbreak
• Teleport+Damage, Invulnerability, Protection+Stability, or AOE Fire+3_Condition Removal

No other class in the game can get nearly as much utility from their utility slots as the elementalist.

Then, thanks to all the +boon duration stacking possible in WvW, Elementalists are able to keep 100% up-time on their boons from swapping attunements and criting. Since these boons include swiftness, protection, regen, and vigor, the Elementalist is extremely difficult to peg down and kill. Even more so due to those utilities (Cantrips) I listed above.

Then there’s the heals which all 3 of which are wonderful. One gives more might (blah), swiftness, regen, or protection; one heals per cast when not on cooldown; and the last one provides even more condition removal.

Then there are the auras from dagger+dagger that are giving swiftness and fury (10 pts in air) and stunning or chilling anyone that hits you.

Then there’s ride the lightning and burning speed to provide even more speed … because a teleport and 100% up-time on swiftness weren’t enough.

Then there’s also the +2% damage per boon that synergizes extremely well with the up-time of the elementalist’s boons to allow this extremely mobile, tanky build still have respectable damage.

There’s also the massive amount of heals from just weapon abilities, constant regen, mist in water form, switching to water form (thanks 15 pts in water trait line).

There is no other class in the game that can consistently go from 20% hp back to 100% in a 1 minute fight as the elementalist. Not even the Guardian.

Basically, Elementalist has an alpha build that leaves you wondering why you would want to play anything else.

It has speed, mobility, defense, offense, support, etc.

What needs to happen?

• That one build (and some of its derivates) needs to be toned down
• Other elementalist builds need to be buffed

What does this accomplish?

• Encourages a variety of elementalist builds
• Removes an OP elementalist build that has caused it to be overwhelmingly used in both WvW and sPvP
• Maybe gives Thieves a chance in sPvP to fulfill the roamer build in sPvP … as currently, why would you take a thief over an elementalist in sPvP … the elementalist is brings so much more to the table as a roamer (as stated by ArenaNet devs).

There are many counters to this “OP” build. Not sure how it is in the lower tiers of WvW at the moment but that build is basically useless in tier 2 these days as there are so many builds running around which simply hard-counter the boon-heavy bunker d/d elementalist.

Even for classes without tools to directly remove boons, just apply poison consistently and you’ll win (if you know the elementalist’s healing/damage rotation, if you don’t, then learn, the PvP in this game is about knowing your enemy).

Bunker d/d beats glass cannon builds. That’s where the complaints come from. Glass cannon players are used to games where the “mage” class dies when you push buttons at it. Glass cannons are worthless in this game where you have to be your own tank and healer sometimes.

If bunker d/d eles are killing you, seriously look at your build and consider adding a small amount of toughness and maybe a condition clear or escape move. As has been mentioned, every single utility that ele is using is an escape/condition-clear. If all you have on your bar is haste and some signets or CCs, it’s not the elementalist’s fault for being better prepared for a long fight, it’s your fault for thinking you can end the fight quickly in your favor and having no backup plan.

Don’t run from a d/d elementalist. They can and will chase you down. If you are running, you aren’t damaging them, they are healing while they chase you.

If there’s a d/d elementalist fighting you and 5 others and he actually manages to down one or two, don’t all go kneel down to rez. He will aoe the crap out of that spot and you might actually take some damage. Keep hitting him, he will have to blow a long cooldown to get one stomp or retreat to heal up and you can then rez under less pressure.

Learn to time your CC. All those cantrips are on long kitten cooldowns, make him burn them. Apply cover conditions before immobilizing.

Balanced builds are more powerful in WvW than bunkers, because they can actually kill (besides green arrows and glass, anyway). In sPvP I’d imagine bunkers are more powerful, since damage is less overall, holding points is more important than actually killing, and the cap circles are tiny.

I can’t imagine a good way to nerf bunker elementalists without making the other (arguably weaker already) builds even less viable besides a straight nerf to the scaling of healing power. Maybe some sort of diminishing returns on healing power over 300. Maybe even across the board for all classes, bunker guardians, despite the statement of the previous poster, can heal themselves to full from basically nothing repeatedly as well.

^ what they said.
Guardians heal is sooo much higher then Ele`.
I fought some Guardian in WvWs, we were both bunker builds & even though I could heal a lot, he did a hell of a lot more damage, plus they get passive blocks. Even then, the fight went on for roughly 20 minutes with some from my server watching, until even they got bored

As for nerfing D/D bunker build, they (Anet) really need to get off of their arses & fix the rest first, before destroying one build.

It takes 1-2 stuns to completely shut down any D/D Ele` & if the enemy can`t do that, it is their fault alone. But this is exactly why they nerfed RTL by 25%, because of the QQers.

If others went bunker I`m guessing they`d be even more tanky & do more damage then any Ele` could build.

Thrashbarg.9820:

There are many counters to this “OP” build. Not sure how it is in the lower tiers of WvW at the moment but that build is basically useless in tier 2 these days as there are so many builds running around which simply hard-counter the boon-heavy bunker d/d elementalist.

Even for classes without tools to directly remove boons, just apply poison consistently and you’ll win (if you know the elementalist’s healing/damage rotation, if you don’t, then learn, the PvP in this game is about knowing your enemy).

Bunker d/d beats glass cannon builds. That’s where the complaints come from. Glass cannon players are used to games where the “mage” class dies when you push buttons at it. Glass cannons are worthless in this game where you have to be your own tank and healer sometimes.

If bunker d/d eles are killing you, seriously look at your build and consider adding a small amount of toughness and maybe a condition clear or escape move. As has been mentioned, every single utility that ele is using is an escape/condition-clear. If all you have on your bar is haste and some signets or CCs, it’s not the elementalist’s fault for being better prepared for a long fight, it’s your fault for thinking you can end the fight quickly in your favor and having no backup plan.

Don’t run from a d/d elementalist. They can and will chase you down. If you are running, you aren’t damaging them, they are healing while they chase you.

If there’s a d/d elementalist fighting you and 5 others and he actually manages to down one or two, don’t all go kneel down to rez. He will aoe the crap out of that spot and you might actually take some damage. Keep hitting him, he will have to blow a long cooldown to get one stomp or retreat to heal up and you can then rez under less pressure.

Learn to time your CC. All those cantrips are on long kitten cooldowns, make him burn them. Apply cover conditions before immobilizing.

Balanced builds are more powerful in WvW than bunkers, because they can actually kill (besides green arrows and glass, anyway). In sPvP I’d imagine bunkers are more powerful, since damage is less overall, holding points is more important than actually killing, and the cap circles are tiny.

I can’t imagine a good way to nerf bunker elementalists without making the other (arguably weaker already) builds even less viable besides a straight nerf to the scaling of healing power. Maybe some sort of diminishing returns on healing power over 300. Maybe even across the board for all classes, bunker guardians, despite the statement of the previous poster, can heal themselves to full from basically nothing repeatedly as well.

The real problem isn’t the healing. It’s the healing, coupled with mobility, coupled with massive cleansing. If I was going to weaken any part of that trinity it’d be the cleansing.

PinCushion.7390:

The real problem isn’t the healing. It’s the healing, coupled with mobility, coupled with massive cleansing. If I was going to weaken any part of that trinity it’d be the cleansing.

How would you suggest they do that without even further damaging hybrid builds?
Removing the EA cleanse would nerf non-water/cantrip builds even more. Removing the regen from cantrips would nerf any non-arcane/boon-duration build’s ability to use regen. Reducing the amount of conditions removed by ether renewal would nerf any non-water/cantrip build. I just don’t see a good way to reduce the cleansing and not even further damage hybrid/damage builds ability to survive.

Then there is class balance to consider, with the lowest health pool and base defense, elementalists should have good healing/sustain.

Shout healing warriors specced to remove immobilize on movement skill and using a warhorn already have superb condition removal, healing and mobility. Just that most don’t spec that way because it limits damage and their damage builds have better base survivability than a hybrid elementalist.

Bunker guardians might have less mobility, but they have amazing ability to generate boons and healing, including boons that are rare or impossible for elementalists to self generate (retaliation and stability), clear conditions, etc.

Both guardians and warriors can spec to clear more condtions from allies than elementalists can (with d/d anyway, healing rain on staff might be technically as many or slightly more condition clears, not sure about that). Cantrip condition removal is self-only, and with the amount of conditions being spammed in WvW these days, self-only condition removals aren’t game-breaking.

The difference between an elementalist running cleric’s gear and one without healing power on his gear is nearly double the self healing. That’s why I’d suggest reducing the scaling of healing power beyond 300 (the most without any +heal gear). The healing output of the weapon skills that heal others (and the EA roll) should remain the same to avoid discouraging support builds, but change signet and self-applied regeneration scaling to have diminishing returns for high healing power.

^
This.

+100, decrease dimishing return over 300 healing power

Thrashbarg.9820:

PinCushion.7390:

The real problem isn’t the healing. It’s the healing, coupled with mobility, coupled with massive cleansing. If I was going to weaken any part of that trinity it’d be the cleansing.

How would you suggest they do that without even further damaging hybrid builds?
Removing the EA cleanse would nerf non-water/cantrip builds even more. Removing the regen from cantrips would nerf any non-arcane/boon-duration build’s ability to use regen. Reducing the amount of conditions removed by ether renewal would nerf any non-water/cantrip build. I just don’t see a good way to reduce the cleansing and not even further damage hybrid/damage builds ability to survive.

Then there is class balance to consider, with the lowest health pool and base defense, elementalists should have good healing/sustain.

Shout healing warriors specced to remove immobilize on movement skill and using a warhorn already have superb condition removal, healing and mobility. Just that most don’t spec that way because it limits damage and their damage builds have better base survivability than a hybrid elementalist.

Bunker guardians might have less mobility, but they have amazing ability to generate boons and healing, including boons that are rare or impossible for elementalists to self generate (retaliation and stability), clear conditions, etc.

Both guardians and warriors can spec to clear more condtions from allies than elementalists can (with d/d anyway, healing rain on staff might be technically as many or slightly more condition clears, not sure about that). Cantrip condition removal is self-only, and with the amount of conditions being spammed in WvW these days, self-only condition removals aren’t game-breaking.

The difference between an elementalist running cleric’s gear and one without healing power on his gear is nearly double the self healing. That’s why I’d suggest reducing the scaling of healing power beyond 300 (the most without any +heal gear). The healing output of the weapon skills that heal others (and the EA roll) should remain the same to avoid discouraging support builds, but change signet and self-applied regeneration scaling to have diminishing returns for high healing power.

I suggested a nerf to cleansing because it’s a primary feature of the Water tree. Before they nerf anything (or alongside it) they need to make Fire, Air, and Earth not terrible or the class will just be junk.

PinCushion.7390:

Thrashbarg.9820:

PinCushion.7390:

The real problem isn’t the healing. It’s the healing, coupled with mobility, coupled with massive cleansing. If I was going to weaken any part of that trinity it’d be the cleansing.

How would you suggest they do that without even further damaging hybrid builds?
Removing the EA cleanse would nerf non-water/cantrip builds even more. Removing the regen from cantrips would nerf any non-arcane/boon-duration build’s ability to use regen. Reducing the amount of conditions removed by ether renewal would nerf any non-water/cantrip build. I just don’t see a good way to reduce the cleansing and not even further damage hybrid/damage builds ability to survive.

Then there is class balance to consider, with the lowest health pool and base defense, elementalists should have good healing/sustain.

Shout healing warriors specced to remove immobilize on movement skill and using a warhorn already have superb condition removal, healing and mobility. Just that most don’t spec that way because it limits damage and their damage builds have better base survivability than a hybrid elementalist.

Bunker guardians might have less mobility, but they have amazing ability to generate boons and healing, including boons that are rare or impossible for elementalists to self generate (retaliation and stability), clear conditions, etc.

Both guardians and warriors can spec to clear more condtions from allies than elementalists can (with d/d anyway, healing rain on staff might be technically as many or slightly more condition clears, not sure about that). Cantrip condition removal is self-only, and with the amount of conditions being spammed in WvW these days, self-only condition removals aren’t game-breaking.

The difference between an elementalist running cleric’s gear and one without healing power on his gear is nearly double the self healing. That’s why I’d suggest reducing the scaling of healing power beyond 300 (the most without any +heal gear). The healing output of the weapon skills that heal others (and the EA roll) should remain the same to avoid discouraging support builds, but change signet and self-applied regeneration scaling to have diminishing returns for high healing power.

I suggested a nerf to cleansing because it’s a primary feature of the Water tree. Before they nerf anything (or alongside it) they need to make Fire, Air, and Earth not terrible or the class will just be junk.

They could change traits like soothing disruption to something like this:

-Grant 6s vigor and 3s chill nearby foes-
This way the survivability of the ele wouln’t go down and people won’t be able to use cantrips to remove a condition, but cleansing water will still remain a great..grandmaster trait XD

Taril.8619:

I believe it started when some people posted a few videos of them playing 0/10/0/30/30 and 1vX in WvW.

This then caused an influx of people playing the spec and it became the go-to spec, thus people got to know how strong it was.

The builds that they were using in the vids were a known entity as far back as beta. It wasn’t being used simply because D/D was buggy as all hell, and fire grab earthquake, magnetic grasp, ect. missed for no reason at all, mist form didn’t count as a cantrip for traiting purposes, and a bunch of other things that I forgot…

…Check out the patch notes for the ele on Nov 15 and Dec 16. THAT is when the build took off, in combination with the downed state buff.

Rand.3186:

Put it this way, me and a buddy took our two PVT geared d/d eles against 10-15 players, and not only did we get numerous kills, but it took them 18 minutes to kill us just once. He buddy I mentioned was streaming at the time, and he highlighted our epic fight.

Enjoy : http://www.twitch.tv/saetiasc/c/1827679

We have high mobility, and numerous ways to get out of trouble.

Leuca is right, people learned how to play ele tanky.

Sir! you and your buddy are god! hahaha love the vid!

healing power is the worst scaling stat in the game, often times only adding 10% to the base heal of the skill. Why would you want to nerf it even more?

It took off when staffs were crippled :p

>When did we become “overpowered”

in beta
since the release various ele build get nerfed many times to the point where he is rather UP.
Because ele is hard to play and rather weak it requires from the player to learn and improve to be comparable with many brainless autoattack or 3 buttons professions/builds. That is why average ele player is just more skilled than avarage player… with maybe the exception for the new dd wanabe players who are basically free scores. So if you meet a good ele you meet a good player, because he played weak build he became “OP”.
After 700h on my ele I rolled a thief (mostly for pvp glory farm) and it was so ultra easy that after a 20 min of gameplay I got comparable scores like on my ele after 700h. Later on I leveled this thief to 80 and in pve it was also easier than ele.
On wvw I play the “immortal troll” 100% condi/tank p/d thief build – same as on the ele tank you can own 95% of the plyers with this – having troubles (draw or infinite fight) with other tanks – but you can do this a lot easier than as ele.
So ele compared to thief is far from OP.
In pve obiously OP are guard and warr, ele is far far far behind those two and only far behind the rest
The only aspect where ele might be slightly OP is hi end pvp – but its not tank, not dd, not 1v1, but teamplay s/d berserker eles and so far I know only one team who can play like this – chieftain ninjas, still I am not sure if this ele build is OP or they are OP.

I don’t play Eles anymore, but I haven’t had any problems with them in sPVP or WvW on any of the classes I fight them with. Something I have noticed is that their current HP is no indicator of how long the fight will be, but otherwise they don’t really “stand out” from the crowd.

To be fair, I’ve only fought them with two classes in WvW: Engineer and the Necro. While yes, Ele’s are strong in WvW thanks to high boon duration and all that, the fact is that many other classes are stronger, too. The Necro, for example, goes from sub-par in sPVP to a monster WvW.

Anyway, in WvW I still run the turret Engineer a lot, coupled with grenades because of their awesomeness in WvW, and while it isn’t nearly as useful it lets me 1 vs. 1 any other class, Elementalist included. Like most, the elementalist spends most of its time rooted or knocked down, usually alternating between the two depending on if their stability is up or not. Both conditions and regular damage come quickly, and the elementalist has to spam their heals in order to deal with them. Once that happens, they become overwhelmed and succumb to the grenades.

On the necromancer their movement skills and evasion means little to nothing to Wells, which with the proper traits will hit the ele reliably. From there the conditions layer up very quickly, and the ele will exhaust their condition removal only to discover that, with a 4.5 second recharge on Mark of Blood, they just come right back. In this fight, distance is the enemy, since d/d ele’s need close range to lay down the hurt, whereas the necro is comfortable hitting like a truck at 1200 range. Eventually, most elementalists flee the fight, while others die.

Then again, maybe I just haven’t fought any “good” elementalists yet.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Then again, maybe I just haven’t fought any “good” elementalists yet.

you just played two natural enemies of typical dd ele – properly build necro and engi. With those you will quickly own most wanabe d/d eles (90% players) and force experienced dd ele to flee or offer them long battle where in the best scenatio they can only draw. To kill more expierienced dd’es wait until they get mist form and armour of earth on 75s and 90s cooldown, then immobilize before or during rtl and/or interrupt their Ether Renewal – done.

I wouldn’t call necro the natural enemy of d/d ele. Engi can be kinda tough though. Just gotta have enough discipline to not skill spam while confused.

Eles aren’t op. The 0/10/0/30/30 d/d build is op. The problem is that besides that build eles do not have anything else that is viable.

style.6173:

Eles aren’t op. The 0/10/0/30/30 d/d build is op. The problem is that besides that build eles do not have anything else that is viable.

Exactly what I would say. When it comes to weapons, maybe the scepter is an alternative to the MH- dagger (a rather weak one though) but that’s it. And when it comes to talents, well, someone already mentioned that the trait lines fire, air and earth should be overlooked and made more attractive to t/sPvP players.

Israel.7056:

I wouldn’t call necro the natural enemy of d/d ele. Engi can be kinda tough though. Just gotta have enough discipline to not skill spam while confused.

Necro will demolish an ele if they are not specced into condition cleansing AND vit. It will chew right through his low health otherwise and the faster output of condis will surpass the clearing cooldowns. I have run into so many condi necros and engis that
I find myself reverting to soldiers amu in spvp over valk/zerk for this reason.

mongolianmisfit.8350:

Necro will demolish an ele if they are not specced into condition cleansing AND vit. It will chew right through his low health otherwise and the faster output of condis will surpass the clearing cooldowns. I have run into so many condi necros and engis that
I find myself reverting to soldiers amu in spvp over valk/zerk for this reason.

That particular ele build is more of an spvp/tpvp thing. Really don’t see eles running it in WvW.

Conquest mode forces us to fight necros inside little circles. This is problematic given how necro marks and wells work. It’s the game mode more than the class itself that’s the problem imo.

Gugus.1462:

When did we become “overpowered”?

The moment an Elementalist killed a player running another profession.

The moment an Elementalist killed a player running a thief ^^

Arheundel.6451:

The moment an Elementalist killed a player running a thief ^^

Pretty much this LOL 90% of the players in pvp is using theif and mesmer.

First off you need to draw a line between spvp and wvw. They are not the same at all. When you nerf WvW you nerf PvE and essentially you have to eat kitten everywhere because of it.

that being said recent nerfs have been to burst builds that one shot (3 shot really). Reason being new players cant handle it at all. Devs have stated this already. We have been nerfed in PvP repeatedly but the devs seem to be of the mindset that nerfing ele again is either pointless or too much so they intend to buff damage vs boons.

WvW…sigh. If someone mentions WvW and nerfing point out to them that restricted dps and healing is unrestricted there cross class. Simply put they can’t nerf us in PvE without rolling in the nerfs for mesmer and guardian and thief etc that exist in Spvp alone.

Now fact is ele EHP is unbearably low for WvW skirmishing in big groups. Smart burst classes can and will burst you down. The thing eles do best in WvW is not 1 v x that kitten does not work vs experienced players. The thing we do best is run. A good warrior will keep up with you. A good thief can out run you. Most players suck at using mobility/movement skills. They like their DPS and big pretty numbers. Good players will drop most DD eles and that’s the truth.

Ele all by itself isn’t really OP. It’s the cleansing and the “no gap” healing. The DPs chain is predicatable and long to execute and while damge is Ok its far from broken.

^
This.

+100, decrease dimishing return over 300 healing power

One last thing ele bunker is supposed to be a kittening bunker. Which means hard ot kill. Also as stated in the last sotg ele is supposed to be a good healer and the devs said they were unlikely to touch healing again at all. Also note healing power is reduced by 50% for us already in Spvp. If you are talking about wvw read above.

Also it should be noted guardian can and will out heal us but rarely do so as specing for more DPS isn’t necessarily a bad move for them.

Another not on healing is that guardian and ourselves have low base hp. Healing to full with a low threshold is simple because the hp pool is small.

Most players wont bring Cc at all. They refuse to immobilize. They kitten about not being able to catch ele and bring nothing to do it. My GS/ Axe & Shield warrior in WvW Has at least 4 cc skills which is usually enough to slow down an ele and he can keep up. Most players will not build a class like this. Until they start carrying cc expect the complaints to continue.

Taril.8619:

I believe it started when some people posted a few videos of them playing 0/10/0/30/30 and 1vX in WvW.

Yeah, it was when I posted my build video to Buildcast in September.

I’m also super modest.

TheGuy.3568:

(…)
Most players wont bring Cc at all. They refuse to immobilize. They kitten about not being able to catch ele and bring nothing to do it. My GS/ Axe & Shield warrior in WvW Has at least 4 cc skills which is usually enough to slow down an ele and he can keep up. Most players will not build a class like this. Until they start carrying cc expect the complaints to continue.

Thats not totaly true, as Guardian sometimes i even use KD signet plus hammer and lighthing ele’s just use “NOS button” and run miles miles away if they are going down.
Other possible scenario they go in circle arround while have to change to wand/offand and with blinks, KD’s, hammer CC, i cant match them up most will use melandru rune + stun duration food for what i noticed.

While playing thief its scorpion wire then burst.

Can’t kill one person who got away from you and you got owned? Yay, let’s generalize that the entire class is OP!

TheGuy.3568:

Most players wont bring Cc at all. They refuse to immobilize. They kitten about not being able to catch ele and bring nothing to do it. My GS/ Axe & Shield warrior in WvW Has at least 4 cc skills which is usually enough to slow down an ele and he can keep up. Most players will not build a class like this. Until they start carrying cc expect the complaints to continue.

This is what i don’t understand. I’m pretty new to elementalist (currently levelling one) but my main is a warrior and i’m always running with CC. It’s not like i’m some vet i’m not even that skilled a player but it doesn’t take a genius to realise how useful CC is.

Other people hit it right on the head: D/D cantrip spec just has everything: mobility, tankiness, healing, damage.

If ANet wanted to fix this, they’d have to make D/D more specialized; most likely by making it more focused on mobility and damage and decreasing healing and tankiness. It’s not like other weapon sets aren’t viable, there’s just no reason to take anything but D/D in 90% of situations.

I think this could be accomplished by swapping skills on the dagger with skill on other weapons. What if, for example, the water skills on off-hand dagger were swapped with focus? D/D then loses a heal/condition clear and a strong defensive aura and focus gains much better team support. That alone may be enough to “balance” the spec.

Eliyahu.1467:

Other people hit it right on the head: D/D cantrip spec just has everything: mobility, tankiness, healing, damage.

You do realize that a full bunker d/d ele has just about the same effective health as a full glass cannon warrior, has no damage whatsoever, gets outhealed by guardians easily and has just about the same mobility as half the other classes. Ether renewal does a great job at removing conditions but really, cantrips as a form off presumably OP condition removal? 90, 75 or 45 seconds cooldown on removing 1 condition? 50 seconds cooldown to cleanse 4 conditions with hardly any secondary effect? And all of this can only be achieved by putting 30 points in water and using 2 trait slots.
Maybe if people started looking at the strengths of their own classes rather then comparing their weaknesses to other classes’s strengths, this game would be a lot more enjoyable.

Ray.2640:

Eliyahu.1467:

Other people hit it right on the head: D/D cantrip spec just has everything: mobility, tankiness, healing, damage.

You do realize that a full bunker d/d ele has just about the same effective health as a full glass cannon warrior, has no damage whatsoever, gets outhealed by guardians easily and has just about the same mobility as half the other classes. Ether renewal does a great job at removing conditions but really, cantrips as a form off presumably OP condition removal? 90, 75 or 45 seconds cooldown on removing 1 condition? 50 seconds cooldown to cleanse 4 conditions with hardly any secondary effect? And all of this can only be achieved by putting 30 points in water and using 2 trait slots.
Maybe if people started looking at the strengths of their own classes rather then comparing their weaknesses to other classes’s strengths, this game would be a lot more enjoyable.

You realize I play an Ele right?

D/D Eles have the highest mobility in the game, similar to GS wars running BC and a thief with Shadowstep and shortbow. A bunker specced Ele has lower CDs on heals than Guardian which means that if you don’t 100 – 0 a D/D, you will not kill it. As far as tankiness goes, it depends on the build, but despite having a low health a D/D Ele is not squishy by any means at all. Damage is the weakest area of a D/D bunker spec (though not of any other D/D spec), but it is still sufficient to kill anything but another bunker.

To say that D/D cantrip is deficient in Healing, Tankiness, Mobility, or Damage is false. It is good, very good, or top tier in all of those categories. No other spec for any other class in the game comes close.

Eliyahu.1467:

Ray.2640:

Eliyahu.1467:

Other people hit it right on the head: D/D cantrip spec just has everything: mobility, tankiness, healing, damage.

You do realize that a full bunker d/d ele has just about the same effective health as a full glass cannon warrior, has no damage whatsoever, gets outhealed by guardians easily and has just about the same mobility as half the other classes. Ether renewal does a great job at removing conditions but really, cantrips as a form off presumably OP condition removal? 90, 75 or 45 seconds cooldown on removing 1 condition? 50 seconds cooldown to cleanse 4 conditions with hardly any secondary effect? And all of this can only be achieved by putting 30 points in water and using 2 trait slots.
Maybe if people started looking at the strengths of their own classes rather then comparing their weaknesses to other classes’s strengths, this game would be a lot more enjoyable.

You realize I play an Ele right?

D/D Eles have the highest mobility in the game, similar to GS wars running BC and a thief with Shadowstep and shortbow. A bunker specced Ele has lower CDs on heals than Guardian which means that if you don’t 100 – 0 a D/D, you will not kill it. As far as tankiness goes, it depends on the build, but despite having a low health a D/D Ele is not squishy by any means at all. Damage is the weakest area of a D/D bunker spec (though not of any other D/D spec), but it is still sufficient to kill anything but another bunker.

To say that D/D cantrip is deficient in Healing, Tankiness, Mobility, or Damage is false. It is good, very good, or top tier in all of those categories. No other spec for any other class in the game comes close.

Tankiness? healing? MOBILITY?…Guess you have never thought a tPvP match against a r50+ ranger with traps+wolf or dog or panther+sword/warhorn+healing spring or d/p/shortbow thief built on survival with uncatchable trait.

Mobility is: evasion+multiple dodges..that ranger and thief ( along with warrior) got built on weapon set, the ele doesn’t suddenly become more mobile because of single skill..

so basically the elementalist is tanky so hard to kill and when you guys try to kill it and fail because he runs away you say he’s op….

Why is this a wrong way of thinking? Well for one he ran away because you were about to kill him even though he has the tankiest build the elementalist can have.

so your conclusion: lets nerf his tankiness and remove mobility.

Eliyahu.1467:

Tankiness? healing? MOBILITY?…Guess you have never thought a tPvP match against a r50+ ranger with traps+wolf or dog or panther+sword/warhorn+healing spring or d/p/shortbow thief built on survival with uncatchable trait.

Mobility is: evasion+multiple dodges..that ranger and thief ( along with warrior) got built on weapon set, the ele doesn’t suddenly become more mobile because of single skill..

how you can compare tpvp ranger and other profesion to www .. its completely different world with is own rules.. truth is that ele is stronger in www than any other class no mather how good you are.. there are only two ways how your fight with ele with that build ends, you die or you escape ..
maybe lucky thief can hit im hard but in that case ele will escape

Dina Van Heyr.3018:

Eliyahu.1467:

Tankiness? healing? MOBILITY?…Guess you have never thought a tPvP match against a r50+ ranger with traps+wolf or dog or panther+sword/warhorn+healing spring or d/p/shortbow thief built on survival with uncatchable trait.

Mobility is: evasion+multiple dodges..that ranger and thief ( along with warrior) got built on weapon set, the ele doesn’t suddenly become more mobile because of single skill..

how you can compare tpvp ranger and other profesion to www .. its completely different world with is own rules.. truth is that ele is stronger in www than any other class no mather how good you are.. there are only two ways how your fight with ele with that build ends, you die or you escape ..
maybe lucky thief can hit im hard but in that case ele will escape

You can’t be a bad player and do good on ele, you’ll die easily to any decent player who knows how an ele works, I can assure you that, you can’t generalize every ele, most of us have been playing this profession since launch…even when it was considered UP, which still is because you can only go the tanky/bala way to play this profession…there is no glass cannon option as you get oneshotted

Swimsasa Stoon.8936:

so basically the elementalist is tanky so hard to kill and when you guys try to kill it and fail because he runs away you say he’s op….

Why is this a wrong way of thinking? Well for one he ran away because you were about to kill him even though he has the tankiest build the elementalist can have.

so your conclusion: lets nerf his tankiness and remove mobility.

Fine, let’s revise the assertion.

D/D Ele is OP in WvW when fighting disorganized zergs of players, many of whom will be upleveled and bad at coordinating CC and burst.

I’ve seen Elementalists absolutely demolish zergs of 10-20 people. I’ve also seen them die instantly to 2-3 coordinated players because someone waited until after their cantrips were on cooldown and they had just used a Water skill to immobilize them. Health went from 80% to 0% in a blink.

Dina Van Heyr.3018:

Eliyahu.1467:

Tankiness? healing? MOBILITY?…Guess you have never thought a tPvP match against a r50+ ranger with traps+wolf or dog or panther+sword/warhorn+healing spring or d/p/shortbow thief built on survival with uncatchable trait.

Mobility is: evasion+multiple dodges..that ranger and thief ( along with warrior) got built on weapon set, the ele doesn’t suddenly become more mobile because of single skill..

how you can compare tpvp ranger and other profesion to www .. its completely different world with is own rules.. truth is that ele is stronger in www than any other class no mather how good you are.. there are only two ways how your fight with ele with that build ends, you die or you escape ..
maybe lucky thief can hit im hard but in that case ele will escape

True story….

Mesmer vs bunker ele in wvwvw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjUtDw8e8kI&list=PLBF2912D72F052EC7&index=37

Thief vs bunker ele in PvP ( where the stats are way lower and hence easier to enhance in PvE)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QSRhiHn_Zc&feature=youtu.be

Mesmer again
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2V6ASnuG8uI

Mesmer again..vs X opponents
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5T--u3A25GI&feature=youtu.be

Now you’ve got two choices:
1) Keep living in denial, calling OP everything that beats you
2) You get down and learn 2 play

Either way, I won’t keep posting videos to show how wrong you are and how much you need to improve compared to others

If I have no problem fighting D/D Ele` with what you can see in the images, then no one else (with half a clue) should either…

Fishbait.6723:

If I have no problem fighting D/D Ele` with what you can see in the images, then no one else (with half a clue) should either…

you are showing a necro and guardian traits.

and you have no problem. none at all ? with that low level. and against a DD ??
umm ye… you know april 1:st was a few days ago… you missed it…
be faster next year.

eldain stenlund.4306:

Fishbait.6723:

If I have no problem fighting D/D Ele` with what you can see in the images, then no one else (with half a clue) should either…

you are showing a necro and guardian traits.

and you have no problem. none at all ? with that low level. and against a DD ??
umm ye… you know april 1:st was a few days ago… you missed it…
be faster next year.

I main an Ele`, so more used to it then the average bear

Just had fun tonight at Vale, one Drakkars Lake kept killing two of ours (they did run into the buffed guard though hehe) whilst I lived.
I used whatever skill it is for necro that pulled them away from guards, screws with Ele a lot.
Big cloud pet stuns.
Drop staff five to fear whilst res others etc.
Churning Earth is sooo easy to dodge, even if they use lightning.
& so on…

He got me in the end as sentry spawned & stunned me lol
Enjoyed some duels afterwards (on my Ele`).

Yes if one catches me off guard it can be a pain because I don`t have any stun breakers, yet (which is *THE*main reason people complain, that & they don`t come with CCs)…. but everyone ranting they are O kitten o far from the truth

Eles are way to powerful atm, luckely u got nerfs inc
The reasons are the cc, hard to kill, heals, utilty and still maintain good dmg.