Guild Wars 2

Mackapacka.9462:

Eles are way to powerful atm, luckely u got nerfs inc
The reasons are the cc, hard to kill, heals, utilty and still maintain good dmg.

I dont like nerfs in mmos.

But i do hope you are right, and DD gets nerfed hard.
It will be SOOO much fun to see when their precious DD specc is nerfed.

“but but, iam not imortal anymore ?? i cant not troll 15 people solo and kill them slowly ??? "

hopefully the other weapons will come in more focus then and also fixed.

eldain stenlund.4306:

Mackapacka.9462:

Eles are way to powerful atm, luckely u got nerfs inc
The reasons are the cc, hard to kill, heals, utilty and still maintain good dmg.

I dont like nerfs in mmos.

But i do hope you are right, and DD gets nerfed hard.
It will be SOOO much fun to see when their precious DD specc is nerfed.

“but but, iam not imortal anymore ?? i cant not troll 15 people solo and kill them slowly ??? "

hopefully the other weapons will come in more focus then and also fixed.

I strongly doubt a weapon set will be nerfed because it can be used against a bunch of newbs pve players in WvWvW, unless you personally wanna come and show me how you perform so great at r50 tPvP with D/D! Pls come and show me how much of a pro you are with d/d at that level

Arheundel.6451:

eldain stenlund.4306:

Mackapacka.9462:

Eles are way to powerful atm, luckely u got nerfs inc
The reasons are the cc, hard to kill, heals, utilty and still maintain good dmg.

I dont like nerfs in mmos.

But i do hope you are right, and DD gets nerfed hard.
It will be SOOO much fun to see when their precious DD specc is nerfed.

“but but, iam not imortal anymore ?? i cant not troll 15 people solo and kill them slowly ??? "

hopefully the other weapons will come in more focus then and also fixed.

I strongly doubt a weapon set will be nerfed because it can be used against a bunch of newbs pve players in WvWvW, unless you personally wanna come and show me how you perform so great at r50 tPvP with D/D! Pls come and show me how much of a pro you are with d/d at that level

hmm.. no.. they will hopefully nerf DD because you get absolutely everything from it.
ALL boons. ALL survival. ALL mobility… everything. and you keep it constantly.

hmm.. no.. they will hopefully nerf DD because you get absolutely everything from it.
ALL boons. ALL survival. ALL mobility… everything. and you keep it constantly.The weight of the scale is on the wrong side.
TANK — DMG.
elemental should be on dmg side.

eldain stenlund.4306:

Arheundel.6451:

eldain stenlund.4306:

Mackapacka.9462:

Eles are way to powerful atm, luckely u got nerfs inc
The reasons are the cc, hard to kill, heals, utilty and still maintain good dmg.

I dont like nerfs in mmos.

But i do hope you are right, and DD gets nerfed hard.
It will be SOOO much fun to see when their precious DD specc is nerfed.

“but but, iam not imortal anymore ?? i cant not troll 15 people solo and kill them slowly ??? "

hopefully the other weapons will come in more focus then and also fixed.

I strongly doubt a weapon set will be nerfed because it can be used against a bunch of newbs pve players in WvWvW, unless you personally wanna come and show me how you perform so great at r50 tPvP with D/D! Pls come and show me how much of a pro you are with d/d at that level

hmm.. no.. they will hopefully nerf DD because you get absolutely everything from it.
ALL boons. ALL survival. ALL mobility… everything. and you keep it constantly.

hmm.. no.. they will hopefully nerf DD because you get absolutely everything from it.
ALL boons. ALL survival. ALL mobility… everything. and you keep it constantly.The weight of the scale is on the wrong side.
TANK — DMG.
elemental should be on dmg side.

Again you talk like your typical wvwvw bunker with boon extension runes and cleric amulet, you can keep enjoy your wvwvw setting playing against full zerker warriors controlled by a 12 years old and think you’re cool, when you’re ready to show me this “all survival-tank-dmg” godly build…give me a shout and you’ll join a r40+ team and see how you play this “godly” build of yours..of course we’ll stream

And finally in case you missed it.. ele is supposed to have everything because they don’t excel in anything..as said by Anet devs

Next they begin discussing each class in the game, starting with Elementalist. Karl immediately notes that the class has only one real build in high-level play. It is a single build that can do quite literally anything it needs to, from bunkering a point to heavy DPS. This was somewhat deliberate, as the class was intended to be a jack of all trades but master of none. Naturally Arenanet wants to correct this by making other builds more viable.

The class is also known very much for its healing ability. Karl confirmed that is a design decision, and that the goal is for Guardian to be more capable of healing in small doses over time, but for the Elementalist to retain its burst healing.

Xeph pointed out that the combination of self-protection and heavy burst healing makes the class almost unbeatable one on one in the hands of a skilled player. Arenanet noted that they are considering increasing the cast time on the heal and also giving other classes benefits against target stacking boons like an elementalist can.

now you can keep trolling if you want….

Pro eles kill other pro players that plays other classes not only newbs.
All the ele have to do is faceroll the keyboard.

The reason eles are OP is because people learned to swap attunements constantly in battle. When this game first came out, everyone wanted to be the WoW fireball mage. That didn’t work. Then they all thought they could use lightning and swiftness…better, but they still got reemed. They tried out water bunkering, which was much easier to win a fight but they hit like wet noodles.

So some “genius” decided that instead of focusing on one element per build, like most games expect you to, s/he would swap elements as often as possible (when prudent) and gain the benefits of every single heavy-hitting skill on the bar. It wasn’t hard to figure out, you just had to break from the traditional mentality of “I AM A FIRE MAGE…I DO FIRE STUFF…THAT IS ALL!”

Now I hardly see eles ever using their auto-attack spells. That should tell you something.

Thrashbarg.9820:

Even for classes without tools to directly remove boons, just apply poison consistently and you’ll win (if you know the elementalist’s healing/damage rotation, if you don’t, then learn, the PvP in this game is about knowing your enemy).

You….don’t play a warrior much…do ya?

No boon removal. No poison. (Irish accent) Have a glorious day.

Thrashbarg.9820:

Don’t run from a d/d elementalist. They can and will chase you down. If you are running, you aren’t damaging them, they are healing while they chase you.

If they’re smart, they’ll use that same mobility to avoid you. It works both ways…everyone always ignores that.

Thrashbarg.9820:

I can’t imagine a good way to nerf bunker elementalists without making the other (arguably weaker already) builds even less viable besides a straight nerf to the scaling of healing power. Maybe some sort of diminishing returns on healing power over 300. Maybe even across the board for all classes, bunker guardians, despite the statement of the previous poster, can heal themselves to full from basically nothing repeatedly as well.

The difference between bunker guards and bunker eles is that bunker guards have a very visible and very interruptable cast time on their healing. Eles do not. They also have a lot more access to mobility to make that healing count.

One build does not make the whole class OP. I personally do not like playing bunker and I do not. It is the people own falt they lack creativity and wan to win at any cost instead of having fun Just run with teammate – it is not a solo game.

I agree the D/D bunker is effective (maybe OP) but it is no fun to me. If they make trait stat points count more than gear and high crit chance and dmg impossible for bunkers (for all classes) then theer will be nothing OP in the build even.

But the whole class being OP? Nah…

I’m curious how they are going to nerf the elementalist because the combination of support (attunement swapping w/ large amounts of +boon duration), tankiness, mobility, and decent damage is pretty amazing.

I’m curious though because the elementalist needs to be given at least two other viable options before their current “best” option is taken away from them.

Honestly, I wish we saw more Focus use from elementalists as that weapon has so many awesome uses, especially in groups. Unfortunately, it doesn’t fit into the flying bat out of … build that we see all over the place.

In fact, this highlights sort of the “issue”. It’s the massive amount of mobility coupled with being able to easily cleanse and heal yourself. The only class with the same ability to “pick their fights” is the Thief due to high mobility and stealth (and 600 per sec healing if they trait it). However, that Thief isn’t providing crap for support to their team nor are they providing an abundance of CC.

Summary:
Devs said a nerf is coming and it is somewhat warranted.
Devs need to give elementalists viable alternatives or they are going to hurt the class (look at Ranger after their nerfs without recompense … let’s not repeat that).

The truth of the matter is that we’re just not that OP. We have great survivability and that is all. People need to l2p.
We can heal up to 100% from ~40%hp. True. But it’s not like we can burtst anyone down. We have 2 moves, Fire grab and churning earth that can deliver 3k to 5k dmg when they hit. Do you have any idea how easy it is to just dodge them….
In fact, WE can bursted down. Literally in the middle of a duel, if a zerk thief/warr/mesmer catches any one of us unawares they can just burst us down quick. If we react quick its not like we’re going to keep fighting we’re going to run away!
That is the only respect in which we could ever possibly be OP. Our mobility.
Other than that, learn to stun us after we go through our water rotation then simply burst us down. I love facing eles with my mesmer in spvp. I can only imagine that it is even easier to face them in wvw.
0/10/0/30/30 isnt the best build anymore btw there are many other just kept secret. I don’t even run it anymore.

IMO, mesmers and thieves are OP. They can run glass cannon builds and have excellent survivability. Now that’s what I call OP.
Piece of advice, all of you need to spvp and learn to play your class properly. It really makes all the difference. Get to rank 20 and ull js be a brute force in wvw coz players are significantly less skilled.
GOGOGOGO more food for Kaineng!

-[Rise]Twindragona

Elementalists have the lowest health and armor in the game.

We spec into fast attunement switching, healing and condition removal while wearing vitality and toughness gear in order to not get destroyed. You nerf the Elementalist and you destroy the only viable spec we have because everyone is specced roughly the same way.

Once that is done the class itself is destroyed.

I have prepared for this day; in case the developers decided to get stupid. I have enough gold saved up to power level any class to 80 in 3 hours and buy an entire set of exotics. 20 pristine relics for 2 ascended rings and 70 laurels for an ascended amulet. Guild commendations are rolling in at 3 per week and saving them up for 2 ascended accessories.

Calae.1738:

Elementalists have the lowest health and armor in the game.

We spec into fast attunement switching, healing and condition removal while wearing vitality and toughness gear in order to not get destroyed. You nerf the Elementalist and you destroy the only viable spec we have because everyone is specced roughly the same way.

Once that is done the class itself is destroyed.

I have prepared for this day; in case the developers decided to get stupid. I have enough gold saved up to power level any class to 80 in 3 hours and buy an entire set of exotics. 20 pristine relics for 2 ascended rings and 70 laurels for an ascended amulet. Guild commendations are rolling in at 3 per week and saving them up for 2 ascended accessories.

Ele have other “viable” specs, but non-dagger weapons could do with some buffs and daggers need some nerfs. Right now there is only one Elementalist weapon set worth taking and that’s D/D. It does everything better than all the other weapon sets unless you need something extremely specialized like long range AoE. Bunker, healing, mobility, damage, CC, team support, conditions, condition removal, combo fields/finishers — all of this is better on D/D.

You can totally play with other weapons, but they are nowhere near as complete as D/D. Staff, scepter, focus — these are all highly specialized weapons sets with defined strengths and weaknesses. D/D is as universal as it gets — the only weakness is range and it has everything else.

Eliyahu.1467:

Calae.1738:

Elementalists have the lowest health and armor in the game.

We spec into fast attunement switching, healing and condition removal while wearing vitality and toughness gear in order to not get destroyed. You nerf the Elementalist and you destroy the only viable spec we have because everyone is specced roughly the same way.

Once that is done the class itself is destroyed.

I have prepared for this day; in case the developers decided to get stupid. I have enough gold saved up to power level any class to 80 in 3 hours and buy an entire set of exotics. 20 pristine relics for 2 ascended rings and 70 laurels for an ascended amulet. Guild commendations are rolling in at 3 per week and saving them up for 2 ascended accessories.

Ele have other “viable” specs, but non-dagger weapons could do with some buffs and daggers need some nerfs. Right now there is only one Elementalist weapon set worth taking and that’s D/D. It does everything better than all the other weapon sets unless you need something extremely specialized like long range AoE. Bunker, healing, mobility, damage, CC, team support, conditions, condition removal, combo fields/finishers — all of this is better on D/D.

You can totally play with other weapons, but they are nowhere near as complete as D/D. Staff, scepter, focus — these are all highly specialized weapons sets with defined strengths and weaknesses. D/D is as universal as it gets — the only weakness is range and it has everything else.

What are you on about? You nerf d/d and buff the rest, then people start whining about the rest, so we nerf the rest and buff the d/d back..are you for real?
The d/d has already been nerfed enough, now it’s the other weapon sets which must be buffed to equal level, the ele is supposed to be able to do everything at medium level on every weapon set BECAUSE WE CAN’T SWITCH SET during combat and the range weakness is the main weakness and a big one also and that must be the only weakness for each weapon set : range.

You can’t have specialized weapons on the ele, if I wanted specialized weapons I’d play another class and specialize myself how I see fit: range/mele? np…range/range? np…mele/mele? np, for ele each weapon set should be good at everything at its given range, that’s the design of the profession so now I want all weapon sets to be good as d/d… or completely re-make the profession, starting from scratch, your choice!

Fishbait.6723:

They became Op when every single one of them got sick of being 1-2 shot in 1-2 seconds by everyone & their granny, so were forced into going tanky so they could tolerate the “balance” in this game ;p

Funny, in WvW I play super glass with 12k hp and 2k armor and I do fine. Rampagers. sPVP of course is another story I’m sure. I actually outlive 90% of players and lay down crazy amounts of damage with staff AOE + good utility OR run my scepter/dagger for small scale single target burst/chase.

I have no survivability problems. I adjust my utility skills to the danger of the situation and change weapons before combat for different fights. Ele is flexible and dangerous.

LightningBlaze.4913:

Since first week of open beta ele has always being overpowered. The only difference is that thanks to a unselfish person that decided to share one of the many builds that make ele great at pvp that even amateurs can be decent with.

Ele has indeed been OP since beta, the instant mist form just heightened it. Also they gain strength in groups and the bunker build became well known.

To all you saying Bunker Ele is not OP: They should be killable like anyone else. IF they are nigh unkillable their damage should be pathetic. Currently their damage is average or better and they have some of the best survivability in the game played right. There is no tradeoff. Also, immobs only work when not cleansed.

You cannot have decent or better damage and excellent surviability combined with mobility and cleansing or you get the fabled tank-mage. It’s as simple as that.

How can any of you argue that THAT spec allowing those capabilties exhibited in that video isn’t OP? No burst? Theres hella lot more than my bunker warr has or guard.. like 3 times. It doesn’t really matter becuase the devs had said the nerf is coming.

Sigh and I was here looking to see if I could find another bunker/healing/cleanser type of class and was drawn to ele due to having all melee/hybrid 80’s so far =( big gamble now because we dont know what apsect of this their going to nerf..if I had to guesss knowing ANET like I do…Im going to take a stab and say something with the fast attunement switching. Yep nerf that trait or however they want to nerf the attunement switching and D/D’s cant have all them nifty buttons to push

Now ima keep reading and see if I can find a safe way to roll one of you guys =) gl

Ralathar.7236:

Fishbait.6723:

They became Op when every single one of them got sick of being 1-2 shot in 1-2 seconds by everyone & their granny, so were forced into going tanky so they could tolerate the “balance” in this game ;p

Funny, in WvW I play super glass with 12k hp and 2k armor and I do fine. Rampagers. sPVP of course is another story I’m sure. I actually outlive 90% of players and lay down crazy amounts of damage with staff AOE + good utility OR run my scepter/dagger for small scale single target burst/chase.

I have no survivability problems. I adjust my utility skills to the danger of the situation and change weapons before combat for different fights. Ele is flexible and dangerous.

LightningBlaze.4913:

Since first week of open beta ele has always being overpowered. The only difference is that thanks to a unselfish person that decided to share one of the many builds that make ele great at pvp that even amateurs can be decent with.

Ele has indeed been OP since beta, the instant mist form just heightened it. Also they gain strength in groups and the bunker build became well known.

To all you saying Bunker Ele is not OP: They should be killable like anyone else. IF they are nigh unkillable their damage should be pathetic. Currently their damage is average or better and they have some of the best survivability in the game played right. There is no tradeoff. Also, immobs only work when not cleansed.

You cannot have decent or better damage and excellent surviability combined with mobility and cleansing or you get the fabled tank-mage. It’s as simple as that.

A bunker ele is unkillable only for low skilled players, at top tier , a bunker ele will go down easily against 2 average players, being a bunker you can outlat at least one opponent not two opponent of equal or superior skill, all other ele specs( semin bunker- glass cannon) require way more skill than: thief-warrior-ranger combined

If any of you still claim that bunker ele are unkillable..pls let me know, I’m ready to show you why you’re not unkillable

Arheundel.6451:

A bunker ele is unkillable only for low skilled players, at top tier , a bunker ele will go down easily against 2 average players, being a bunker you can outlat at least one opponent not two opponent of equal or superior skill, all other ele specs( semin bunker- glass cannon) require way more skill than: thief-warrior-ranger combined

If any of you still claim that bunker ele are unkillable..pls let me know, I’m ready to show you why you’re not unkillable

the problem is that you play pvp and you understand the combat on total different
level while all who QQ have basic or no undestanding of the game at all. Sad but true.
I just hope the aNet balance team can also see the diference betwen you and for example him:

Pro eles kill other pro players that plays other classes not only newbs. All the ele have to do is faceroll the keyboard.

Second problem is that Mackapacka-nups-like are the vast majority of the players. Out of milions players who bought this game there are like max 1000 (probably even less) who are on your level. So aNet has a choice to either balnace this game for 0.01% of the players (true balnace) or make it balanced for 99.99 Mackapackas-nups-like (no balance). Saddly for aNet there is no win-win solution :/

I guess the nerf will not be hard for ele. It is like in all MMORPG. If the majority of the community loves a class it does not get a hard nerf. They nerf warrior or Engineer. Not Mesmer or Ele that’s for sure.

Redscope.6215:

The difference between bunker guards and bunker eles is that bunker guards have a very visible and very interruptable cast time on their healing. Eles do not. They also have a lot more access to mobility to make that healing count.

Bunker eles uses one of the two healing. One heal is mostly used as passive (uninterruptable) and other is very prone to be interrupted. Bunker guards on the other hands uses shelter which is uninterruptable with most skills.

As a general rule of thumb, even bunker ele can’t survive against two average skilled people. And that’s in pvp where burst is much less threatening (100%+ crit dmg lol).

Lavadiel.6231:

Arheundel.6451:

A bunker ele is unkillable only for low skilled players, at top tier , a bunker ele will go down easily against 2 average players, being a bunker you can outlat at least one opponent not two opponent of equal or superior skill, all other ele specs( semin bunker- glass cannon) require way more skill than: thief-warrior-ranger combined

If any of you still claim that bunker ele are unkillable..pls let me know, I’m ready to show you why you’re not unkillable

the problem is that you play pvp and you understand the combat on total different
level while all who QQ have basic or no undestanding of the game at all. Sad but true.
I just hope the aNet balance team can also see the diference betwen you and for example him:

Pro eles kill other pro players that plays other classes not only newbs. All the ele have to do is faceroll the keyboard.

Second problem is that Mackapacka-nups-like are the vast majority of the players. Out of milions players who bought this game there are like max 1000 (probably even less) who are on your level. So aNet has a choice to either balnace this game for 0.01% of the players (true balnace) or make it balanced for 99.99 Mackapackas-nups-like (no balance). Saddly for aNet there is no win-win solution :/

Arheundel is one of the only high level player that defend the Elementalist in PvP.

Just watch SotG, or read the forum, most “Top tPvP” players are saying that Elem are still Top dog in the game.

Exemple :
Zooks, who’s another top Elem with Team Palagrim (mistype) posted about it like 1 month ago, how Elem were just over the top.

Arheundel is just the perma defender that will always defend this class, no matter what. Elem could prolly have a one shotting ability, and he would still be there defending them.

I don’t think DD deserve a hard nerf, they just need another non-fatal tweak like they did last time they nerfed them. It wasn’t enought, but it still affected them in sPvP.

I hope they buff other weapon set, I’m currently trying to find a working S/F build, and it’s really hard. You lack mobility and CC, the synergy is just bad. You only have one aura, prolly the weakest of the bunch. Your damage need a set up to land. A set-up really hard to achieve because you only have one singe target stun, + one immob if you go earth signet.

haviz.1340:

As a general rule of thumb, even bunker ele can’t survive against two average skilled people. And that’s in pvp where burst is much less threatening (100%+ crit dmg lol).

This should be considered as undeniable fact – a starting point – the moment you get there you can start posting on forums about X being OP/UP but before pls just read/play/learn.
The moment you do not agree with that what haviz wrote you automatically declared yourself as a noob.

There is mayby only one deficiency in his statement namely “two average skilled people” – current average skill level is so low that I would rather say you need two normal people.

Top tPvP players are complaining about cantrips ele and frankly, they are right. I don’t really see how dual arcane+mist form spec with 0/20/0/20/30 is so OP as people make it.

Arheundel.6451:

A bunker ele is unkillable only for low skilled players, at top tier , a bunker ele will go down easily against 2 average players, being a bunker you can outlat at least one opponent not two opponent of equal or superior skill, all other ele specs( semin bunker- glass cannon) require way more skill than: thief-warrior-ranger combined

If any of you still claim that bunker ele are unkillable..pls let me know, I’m ready to show you why you’re not unkillable

If a build requires very specific actions to kill that are far beyond the normal required for comparable classes that is the definition of OP. Currently the two examples of this are thief and elementalist.

They require very specific actions to take down. Coordination of this magnitude is not even close to needed for other comparable classes, not even mesmers. Otherwise even in a losing situation these players will escape. Many times against large numbers of peoples.

Part of the problem is that you can mitigate their counters with proper play. Yes, you can ensure they lose the fight if they are stupid and stay around. But if they are not stupid they only die to insane odds when played well. Even bunker guardians and well played mesmers cannot equal that or even close.

Thief is less popular now because the nerfs now require people to learn how to play thief to achieve this. Bunker ele however can still do well in the hands of the fairly inept. Also downed mist form through gates is some seriously OP stuff adding an extra layer of bs.

Keep in mind there is a vast difference between sPVP and WvW, they are worse in WvW when they can run at will without penalty.

Those very specific actions might be difficult for pve population, that doesn’t make eles OP, same with a thief. Only problem with eles are cantrips.

Try fighting ranger bm or even trapper and then compare what’s op and what requires facerolling.

Besides, it’s not like zvz was ever intended to be balanced, hint: it uses pve version of balance and allows food and other features.

When did we become “overpowered”?

We became overpowered, whether true or not, when the developers decided to swing the nerf bat on the Elementalist Class. The same can be said for the other classes. That simple.

haviz.1340:

Those very specific actions might be difficult for pve population, that doesn’t make eles OP, same with a thief. Only problem with eles are cantrips.

Try fighting ranger bm or even trapper and then compare what’s op and what requires facerolling.

Besides, it’s not like zvz was ever intended to be balanced, hint: it uses pve version of balance and allows food and other features.

See that’s the problem. When confined to a very small area some classes are radically more powerful because they specialize in small area control. However when you allow combat in a more open way other classes are more powerful because their mobility becomes a significant factor. Thieves and Ele’s are a PITA in WvW thanks to their mobility combining with their other means of survivability. But that same mobility is not a threat in sPVP as much because they are forced into very tiny areas. If sPVP wasn’t so focused on point control you’d see more problems there too.

It’s not just the food and gear. The nature of the battlefield is completely different.

To be honest I would say WvW is a better judge of class power than sPVP. sPVP might be the “competitive sport” or Guild Wars 2 but it’s very narrow focus does not encompass the entirety of class balance. It focuses only on a small subset of what each class is capable of and thus invalidates itself for the sake of judging overall class balance.

WvW can’t be a judge at all with its pve balance – double confusion damage, food that reduces condition duration by 40% (conditions are quite strong in pvp), all consumables, pve version of skills (save yourselves), more stats to get (much more crit damage for instance), some sigils unavailable in pvp. Lets not mention everpresents zergs where balance has nothing to do. In gw1, most pvpers were calling game modes like AB, JQ and FA pve and they had pvp game balance.

What has mobility to do in wvw? You’re not playing to kill someone, you’re playing objectives last time I check. Why in those so called 1vX clips popular on youtube, 10 lads are standing in open field against thief with almost perma stealth? What do they want to achieve? A “proof” that thief stealth is OP?

Why everyone seems to complain about bunker eles in wvw? Do they defend anything? Does it bother you that you can’t get kill them?

Sorry, but wvw was made with those thoughts in mind and you can’t balance classes based on 100 scrubs spamming autoattacks against 99 scrubs using sometimes utility skills and asking for nerfs.

haviz.1340:

Why everyone seems to complain about bunker eles in wvw? Do they defend anything? Does it bother you that you can’t get kill them?
.

because they are angry they nerfed thieves and…… look at profiles.
Call it a distorted sense of Revenge….

Ele is not even good at www.
Its still good in pvp (the fotm now seems to be engineer btw)….but complaining seems to face even there.

haviz.1340:

Why everyone seems to complain about bunker eles in wvw? Do they defend anything? Does it bother you that you can’t get kill them?

Quoted again for emphasis.

The roaming 1vX bunker eles aren’t exactly playing for objectives; they just want to fight people.

haviz.1340:

WvW can’t be a judge at all with its pve balance – double confusion damage, food that reduces condition duration by 40% (conditions are quite strong in pvp), all consumables, pve version of skills (save yourselves), more stats to get (much more crit damage for instance), some sigils unavailable in pvp. Lets not mention everpresents zergs where balance has nothing to do. In gw1, most pvpers were calling game modes like AB, JQ and FA pve and they had pvp game balance.

What has mobility to do in wvw? You’re not playing to kill someone, you’re playing objectives last time I check. Why in those so called 1vX clips popular on youtube, 10 lads are standing in open field against thief with almost perma stealth? What do they want to achieve? A “proof” that thief stealth is OP?

Why everyone seems to complain about bunker eles in wvw? Do they defend anything? Does it bother you that you can’t get kill them?

Sorry, but wvw was made with those thoughts in mind and you can’t balance classes based on 100 scrubs spamming autoattacks against 99 scrubs using sometimes utility skills and asking for nerfs.

Spoken like someone who doesn’t understand WvW and would be seen by someone like themselves as one of those mentioned scrubs.

Sorry, but I haven’t met anyone decently skilled in wvw. Maybe you’re more lucky than I am.

haviz.1340:

Sorry, but I haven’t met anyone decently skilled in wvw. Maybe you’re more lucky than I am.

infact you shouldn t search for good players in www.

You need to look for good commanders.

As sad as it is www requires commander’s skill mostly, then the ability to blob effectively (see stack might/veil/portal bombing area control with necro/mesmers etc etc etc) that is completely different from PvP

bunker roamers don t have a pace in www if you don t finish your opponent in few seconds you or they will get help for sure.

@Haviz

Daphenix, the maker of the most popular version of DD Elem, is a WvW players.

Osicat, prolly the best shatter mesmer around, maker of the Shattercat build, is a WvW players.

And more and more and more..

If you didn’t find any good player in WvW, you didn’t search enought. That’s like me joining HotJoin and saying : “Everybody are GC thief and just spam 222 HS. I didn’t find any good players.”

It would be totaly biased.

I fought as many good player in WvW then I did in tPvP.

Your biased jugement of WvW via tPvP, explain your biased opinion toward DD Elem. If you ask me, both WvW and tPvP have really skilled players. WvW just make casual looks worse because of gear.

On subject, roamer in WvW are as efficient as a zerg. You need both.

A DD Elem can disrupt a small group and kill them. That’s efficient for the zerg. It means you defend camp, resulting in more supply and more points for the zerg.

Roamer are a lot more important then people think. And being able to fight 1 vs 3-4 players at the same time, is a bit over the board in my opinion.

D/D is not the only build. 10/30/0/20/10, berserker scepter/dagger build is hella fun. I just can’t run it often because being a D/D boon share ele is a super important component of leading a group. Going balls deep and being the last one standing is crucial when commanding. There is one downfall of a /0/10/0/30/30 you can’t hit hard. You can survive and widdle people away though.

In all honesty, I do not think the elementalist should be nerfed. It is a crazy skill level needed to be good. Watch a good elementalist keystroke in a battle vs a warrior. It took awhile for the D/Ds to get good. Just because as a whole we are becoming better doesn’t mean we need a nerf.

Daphoenix guy didn’t make that build, he popularized that through well-documented guide.

You can’t say someone is best shatter mes without some sort of rankings, otherwise it’s just an opinion. EDIT: Okay, i just watched random vid from that mesmer (from march). I don’t see why would you call him “best shatter mes”. Wait, I realised I’d been trolled.

You can’t expect from someone to find a needle in a haystack.

If a small groups dies to a single bunker ele something is seriously wrong and you can’t blame me for saying that average level of wvw-ers is below any imagination. Like said by Arheundel and me before, two players should be able to either kill him or force to retreat.

Mercenary Higgins.1807:

D/D is not the only build. 10/30/0/20/10, berserker scepter/dagger build is hella fun. I just can’t run it often because being a D/D boon share ele is a super important component of leading a group. Going balls deep and being the last one standing is crucial when commanding. There is one downfall of a /0/10/0/30/30 you can’t hit hard. You can survive and widdle people away though.

In all honesty, I do not think the elementalist should be nerfed. It is a crazy skill level needed to be good. Watch a good elementalist keystroke in a battle vs a warrior. It took awhile for the D/Ds to get good. Just because as a whole we are becoming better doesn’t mean we need a nerf.

I used to think that too.

But keystroke != hard to play.

Sure, it’s a bit harder when you have more key and more skills to use.

But I play an engineer, a ranger, an elementalist and a necromancer mainly.

Yet the hardest class in all those, is the Necromancer for me.

Why not engineer or elementalist? They do have a lot more skills and and you have to play like a piano player?

Well It’s only a case of muscle memory. After 1 weeks of pvping, if you put yourself in it, your brain should automaticly react without much thinking.

Elem/Engin combo should be as easy to pull of as a necromancer.

Why is the necromancer harder for me then? Because you can’t make mistake. You don’t have 3+ “Oh kitten” ability like a cookie DD Elem with 0/10/0/30/30. You only have one emergency healing, and one Death Shroud which is pretty weak.

You have to position yourself like crazy, constant swap DS, not burn your long cooldown.

It’s hard to explain, but playing an active necro (Not a “I stay behind and pull epidemic” necro) is a lot harder for me then any other class I play.

I don’t think Engineer and Elementalist should be stronger because they have more skills to use. I think every class should have the same potential, what ever their skill cap is.

You play a piano class because you like it, not because you wan’t to be stronger.

Kardiamond.6952:

@Haviz

Roamer are a lot more important then people think. And being able to fight 1 vs 3-4 players at the same time, is a bit over the board in my opinion.

1) you cannot play 1VS4 unless at Jumping puzzles
2) no BUNKER roamers are quite useless and cannot disrupt anything

There s only a class good for that and its thief.
It can not only troll small Groups but also its the only able to scout opponents.

As a D/D bunker you get simply ignored at best.
Its infact the reason you see so few D/D ele in www in tier 1 eu at least.

Not to mention how situational is a profession locked into short range in a game with Towers and castles….and where the best tactic is a “deathball of 40-80 players protected by ethereal fields and marks”.

haviz.1340:

Daphoenix guy didn’t make that build, he popularized that through well-documented guide.

You can’t say someone is best shatter mes without some sort of rankings, otherwise it’s just an opinion. And you can’t expect from someone to find a needle in a haystack.

If a small groups dies to a single bunker ele something is seriously wrong and you can’t blame me for saying that average level of wvw-ers is below any imagination. Like said by Arheundel and me before, two players should be able to either kill him or force to retreat.

So how do you say tPvP are better then? There is no real ranking in tPvP ether.

And I don’t care at all about ranking. A guys could be average, and still be top tPvP because he has a pro team carrying him.

The only thing I care is when I fight them, how challenging it’s going to be.

And I find a lot of challenge in WvW. It’s not a needle in a haystack.

I think we agree to disagree.

Sadly for you, I don’t think Anet is on your side right now. As they said on the forum they were taking another look into Elem DD. And we all know what it means.

They’re looking into elem for different reason than you seem to complain. They won’t balance wvw as much as tpvp because they said wvw is not supposed to be balanced.

Well I see as much complain in tPvP about them then sPvP.

I hope they will make S/F viable (while I found this weapon set not as bad as people are saying) and same with Staff.

But I’m pretty sure they will tone down a bit Elem DD.

Copied from another thread.

Please show me another class that can do the same.

Light Armor has only 14% less damage mitigation than heavy … that means if you and a guardian take 6-7 hits, it will count as one less hit to the guardian than it will to you.

1000 dmg minus 14% = 8kittenage. 860 * 6 = 5160.
1000 dmg * 6 = 6000.
6000 – 5160 = 840 damage.
After 6 hits you took 840 more damage than the Guardian/Warrior.

It is access to protection + regen and an abundance of heals that make Guardian and Elementalist so tanky, so don’t go pulling the “we’re squishy” card. It’s not true.

Yep … let’s look at the 0/10/0/30/30 d/d elementalist …

Mobility

• Top Dog … if they have lightning flash they beat warrior, otherwise a warrior with Greatsword / Sword+X and perma-swiftness can be faster.

Stunbreaks

• 4 Cantrips that are excellent. Equip 3 and be happy.

Condition Removal =

• Swap Attunement to Water … heal, gain regen to you and allies, and remove a condition
• OH Dagger – Water – Cleansing Wave … heal and remove a condition from you and allies
• Dodge Roll – Water – Cleansing Wave … heal and remove a condition again
• Ether Renewal removes up to 8.
• Each Cantrip removes at least one thanks to traits.
  • One of them removes 3 on its own and 1 more (total 4) w/ traits.
  • yes, those same utilities are both stunbreakers and condition removal in this build * they also give regen and vigor thanks to traits … and then they have their actual spell effects like teleporting, protection + stability, AOE Fire, or invulnerability

Heals

• If using Signet of Restoration, autoattacking nothing heals them
• Constant 100% up-time on regen (swapping to water and use of cantrips)
• Swapping to Water Attunement
• MH Dagger – Water – Cone of Cold
• OH Dagger – Water – Cleansing Wave
• Dodge Roll – Water – Cleansing Wave

Boons

• Give MIght to you and allies when you swap to fire
• Give Swiftness to you and allies when you swap to air
• Give Regeneration to you and allies when you swap to water
• Give Protection to you and allies when you swap to earth
• Sigil of Battle works off attunement swapping
• Gain fury when you swap attunements (to/from any attunement)
• Gain Swiftness and Fury when you use Frost or Shock Aura
• Gain Swfitness when you knock someone down with Updraft
• Gain Vigor when you crit
• Gain Vigor and Regen when you use a Cantrip

Damage Mitigation

• 100% up-time on Protection
• Frost Aura – 10% more mitigation (43% with Protection) and chill anyone that hits you (because you’re already “so easy” to catch).
• Shock Aura – stun anyone that hits you

… oh yeah … now that you have 100% up-time on 6 different boons (might, fury, swiftness, protection, regeneration, and vigor), you have +2% damage per boon on you … enjoy the extra +12% damage for being so awesome.

It’s no wonder we see so many dagger+dagger elementalists in WvW. They are great solo and they still provide lots of love to others nearby as well.

Is there any other class in the game that can take 3 utilities that:

• stunbreak
• condition cleanse
• give regen
• give vigor
• teleport + damage, invuln, AOE fire + more condition cleanse, or protection + stability?

Nope.

I have my little level 80 Asura Elementalist (Avatar Sebrent) and even tried running this build in full zerker and had no trouble with survivability. Most of your mitigation comes from protection + regen. Then dodge rolls, stunning people that hit you, and the abundance of stun breaks, condition removal, and mobility help you not even take hits.

That post is quite accurate Sebrent, but it’s lacking numbers: damage/heal values and cooldowns.

If you don’t factor actual numbers in, then the Elementalist is the most OP class ever designed in a MMORPG, I mean they have twice as many skills than other professions, all you have to do is cycle through them and you are twice as effective, right?
They can double on dps any warrior, burst down an enemy in half the time a thief would, they can replenish twice the health a guardian will…

Right?

I’d realy like to know why this forum is not swarmed by videos of Elementalists single-handedly butchering armies, I mean if it’s such a faceroll profession how comes I don’t see more and more popping out?

I want to see Avatar Sebrent smash those who oppose Ehmry Bay in his full berserker’s might, come on, don’t be shy! Let me see how you stop and kill a full party of level 80 in exotic gear

Actualy I’d like to see a video from each one of those who say Elementalists are easy and overpowered, well maybe not one made by Mackapacka, my poor brain wouldn’t stand up to that kind of magnificence.

On a serious note, Elementalists are complicated, it took months to figure how to make them work, it will take some time to adapt and learn how to counter them…

Granted that there’s the will to do it instead of complaining on the forum.

Aeolus.3615:

TheGuy.3568:

(…)
Most players wont bring Cc at all. They refuse to immobilize. They kitten about not being able to catch ele and bring nothing to do it. My GS/ Axe & Shield warrior in WvW Has at least 4 cc skills which is usually enough to slow down an ele and he can keep up. Most players will not build a class like this. Until they start carrying cc expect the complaints to continue.

Thats not totaly true, as Guardian sometimes i even use KD signet plus hammer and lighthing ele’s just use “NOS button” and run miles miles away if they are going down.
Other possible scenario they go in circle arround while have to change to wand/offand and with blinks, KD’s, hammer CC, i cant match them up most will use melandru rune + stun duration food for what i noticed.

While playing thief its scorpion wire then burst.

Did you read Warrior. It means I can keep up as long as I time my cc.