Guild Wars 2

They have already reduced the rng in MS

Then make the meteors at least three times their actual size :p

That would make them have a 47% chance to hit a human-size target, which would be completely op.

How about meteor shower is perfectly fine as it is?

I’m all for taking numbers and doing the calculations, however the final step in validating the calculations is that real world results must bear out theoretical calculations.

If they do not then the calculations are null and void.

I agree that empirical validation is required.

Here is the thing; there are so many warriors playing that the data for 100b is large. Do you often see staff elems in speedkills? If people started playing a bit more with it we could have the right example, but until then all we can do is provide calculations to motivate people.

Zelyhn.8069:

That would make them have a 47% chance to hit a human-size target, which would be completely op.

How about meteor shower is perfectly fine as it is?

Shockingly OP, a 47% chance to hit someone/thing.

Remind me, what other class has to hope for a hit, because from what I recall, every other spell is a guaranteed hit if not dodged, walked out of etc..

47% per metor
there are 24 of them

Zelyhn.8069:

I agree that empirical validation is required.

Here is the thing; there are so many warriors playing that the data for 100b is large. Do you often see staff elems in speedkills? If people started playing a bit more with it we could have the right example, but until then all we can do is provide calculations to motivate people.

The problem is that you said “ele can do similar damage to 100b with meteor shower” – in theory it might be the case, but the video someone put together quickly seem do indicate this isn’t the case.
Meteor shower is probably fine as it is (indeed), but this is a ranged AOE skill to harass clusters of enemies when 1) you know that almost none of your meteors is going to be wasted, 2) you know that you’re standing in a safe spot.
So, no, Meteor Shower cannot dish the same damage as 100b in the same context.

Is there a similar skill in the elem set that “compares” a little to 100b? I don’t know… Lava font perhaps, but probably not.

I haven’t watched the videos because I am at work, but I guess they show comparisons between these two skills in solo situations?

Zelyhn.8069:

I haven’t watched the videos because I am at work, but I guess they show comparisons between these two skills in solo situations?

That’s correct.

It seems we’re mostly comparing apples and oranges here. The skills both have completely different cooldowns, different purposes, different ranges and different mechanics. When the shower is cast for example, the ele can do other things while the warrior is stuck in the animation. The ele can have up to 2 summons also attacking the target at the same time. The ele also doesn’t have to walk over there before they can actually hit stuff. And on the other side, the warrior has 8 seconds cooldown where meteor shower has a much, much higher cooldown.

Compare hundred blades and meteor shower on a burrow in AC explorable, and the results will favor Meteor Shower. Compare it on a single target trash mob and hundred blades will come out on top. Are those really things nobody expected?

Zelyhn.8069:

Actually meteor shower can deal at least 66k+ damage on a single human-size target, under speedkill conditions. And I am not even taking all possible buffs into account (like potions, night or slaying sigils, and non-stacking bloodlust)

For your information, on a human sized target (45 radius), the chance for a meteor to hit is: [ ( meteor blast radius + target hitbox radius * 2 ) / ( shower radius ) ] ^ 2
so: [ ( 90 + 45 * 2 ) / ( 360) ] ^ 2 = 0.25 (25%)

This has been empirically tested and confirmed.

So on average 24 * 0.25 = 6 meteors will hit a single human-size target.
Each meteor hits with a coefficient of 1.3
So on average a target will receive a coefficient of 6 * 1.3 = 7.8
The cast time is 3.8s, with an extra animation time estimated at 0.3s

To compare: 100b has a total coefficient of 5.5 and a cast time of a little under 4s.

Now you want to guess how much damage you can deal with meteor shower on a target bigger than the size of a human?

I guess elementalist’s damage only works against NPCs. While Warrior can stun and do his 100B, what’s elementalist’s method to lock someone inside the circle? Talking about PvP perspective, ofcourse.
Now tell me, are those statistics with or without the increase on radius for staff attacks?

UltraHiDef.4809:

While Warrior can stun and do his 100B, what’s elementalist’s method to lock someone inside the circle?

Either Static Field, Frozen Ground, an Earth/Ice Elemental and/or Glyph of Elemental Power cast in earth/water so all the meteors will also snare the things they hit.

Now tell me, are those statistics with or without the increase on radius for staff attacks?

To my knowledge, the radius doesn’t get increased by blasting staff.

ThiBash.5634:

Zelyhn.8069:

I haven’t watched the videos because I am at work, but I guess they show comparisons between these two skills in solo situations?

That’s correct.

It seems we’re mostly comparing apples and oranges here. The skills both have completely different cooldowns, different purposes, different ranges and different mechanics. When the shower is cast for example, the ele can do other things while the warrior is stuck in the animation. The ele can have up to 2 summons also attacking the target at the same time. The ele also doesn’t have to walk over there before they can actually hit stuff. And on the other side, the warrior has 8 seconds cooldown where meteor shower has a much, much higher cooldown.

Compare hundred blades and meteor shower on a burrow in AC explorable, and the results will favor Meteor Shower. Compare it on a single target trash mob and hundred blades will come out on top. Are those really things nobody expected?

I agree. Apples and oranges are two different things we different uses. Oranges can be useful in situations where apples are not, and vice versa. However someone made a claim that oranges are sugary while apples are not. All I did was proving that apples can be sugary too.

I’m hungry.

@UltraHiDef.4809
Without

They are completely different skills i don’t believe anyone has disputed that, the only point i was testing was, from your calculations, that 100B and Meteor Shower produce similar dmg on a Human size target.

The keyword is can.

The assumption is that it requires similar conditions for the test to validate anything. In a solo situation these conditions are likely different.

Try something else: go in PvP, take stable weapons, go naked with no traits and compare the two skills.

ThiBash.5634:

UltraHiDef.4809:

While Warrior can stun and do his 100B, what’s elementalist’s method to lock someone inside the circle?

Either Static Field, Frozen Ground, an Earth/Ice Elemental and/or Glyph of Elemental Power cast in earth/water so all the meteors will also snare the things they hit.

Now tell me, are those statistics with or without the increase on radius for staff attacks?

To my knowledge, the radius doesn’t get increased by blasting staff.

Have you tried this? Static only works when you move through it, and most people would use a stability, not to mention ele doesn’t have quickness like warrior. And, cripples and chills don’t lock someone in a circle.
I guess Elementalist can have damage against static objects. Have luck killing someone in 5 seconds with a Meteor Shower.

silvermember.8941:

Erebus.7568:

ARM.3912:

Zelyhn.8069:

Indeed I won’t admit this, not because it is untrue but because this is not what we are discussing here.

Someone made a claim that no ele can deal damage comparable to that of 100b in a single attack, I proved it wrong.

If we start discussing anything more than this, like class designs, then this conversation will never end. We do not have the skills or the knowledge to solve the “grand equation of classes” across all game modes and in all types of content. All we can do is compare simple concepts.

You didn’t prove anything, you just rattled off some numbers you made up. Find a video or find a new lie.

his always like that -.- no proof all talk and trolling…. its freaking annoying to discuss with him becouse of his bs, so just give it up early.

I feel like he is a paid shill design to give new or uninformed ele misinformation.

yup same feeling or that he simply is paid to keep praising anet to make their bad decision look better on the forums. even though its clear to any person not braindead that they continually choose to ignore the issues with the ele instead of fixing them

Erebus.7568:

silvermember.8941:

Erebus.7568:

ARM.3912:

Zelyhn.8069:

Indeed I won’t admit this, not because it is untrue but because this is not what we are discussing here.

Someone made a claim that no ele can deal damage comparable to that of 100b in a single attack, I proved it wrong.

If we start discussing anything more than this, like class designs, then this conversation will never end. We do not have the skills or the knowledge to solve the “grand equation of classes” across all game modes and in all types of content. All we can do is compare simple concepts.

You didn’t prove anything, you just rattled off some numbers you made up. Find a video or find a new lie.

his always like that -.- no proof all talk and trolling…. its freaking annoying to discuss with him becouse of his bs, so just give it up early.

I feel like he is a paid shill design to give new or uninformed ele misinformation.

yup same feeling or that he simply is paid to keep praising anet to make their bad decision look better on the forums. even though its clear to any person not braindead that they continually choose to ignore the issues with the ele instead of fixing them

Please look at my complete posting history and then review your statement.

On the original subject of conjured weapons I am going to say the only time on an ele I even use one now is while running ac and the tequatl fight because crit doesn’t work on him. I moved away from a power build and into a crit one and that deals more damage than the conjured weapons and also makes it easier to survive longer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eq2DnGj3icI&list=PLUuJAw_Ddg74GzJmABVdJQJ5Wx8gzI1nE&index=4
I suggest watching his other build videos. You don’t even have to go fully with the gear he uses. I use full zerker and have states close to his. This build outputs more damage than the lightening hammer one on noxxic or anyone I’ve used built around the conjured weapons. And yes, I know his elite skill is one but I use the summon elemental instead and it works just fine.
Woodenpotatoes also has three other builds on his channel. One of them is a power arcane build that deals more in crit damage and uses d/d instead of s/f. He also goes into great detail on why he uses these builds. the s/f one is the newest.

Frye.4608:

Well I did go and made a warrior, insta-leveled to 20 with some thing i had in my bank, used 80 skillpoint items for utilities, got level 20 white gear and went into wvw. 4x signets obviously, because I hadn’t played it at all and didn’t feel like learning 4 utilities too.

In a nutshell : IGNORANCE IS BLISS!!!!!!!!!!!!

I wish i never did this. This 5-minutes-old character was VERY close to my elementalist in the best gear available. He out-heals my ele even. It feels like enjoying your toy train until you see the new XBOX 1080 that the kid next door just got.

For those that think I shouldn’t moan, here is proper scientific research about the need for proper rewards : http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=HL45pVdsRvE

Now when you are done laughing at animal abuse, tell that monkey that gets the cucumber he shouldn’t moan. He should still be pleased with it, right? We are fundamentally not wired that way. This video also does wonders during pay negotiations with your boss

that vid was pretty awesome, shows the psychologi pretty well

doeble post bug

tripple post :/ bugged

Zelyhn.8069:

Erebus.7568:

silvermember.8941:

Erebus.7568:

ARM.3912:

Zelyhn.8069:

Indeed I won’t admit this, not because it is untrue but because this is not what we are discussing here.

Someone made a claim that no ele can deal damage comparable to that of 100b in a single attack, I proved it wrong.

If we start discussing anything more than this, like class designs, then this conversation will never end. We do not have the skills or the knowledge to solve the “grand equation of classes” across all game modes and in all types of content. All we can do is compare simple concepts.

You didn’t prove anything, you just rattled off some numbers you made up. Find a video or find a new lie.

his always like that -.- no proof all talk and trolling…. its freaking annoying to discuss with him becouse of his bs, so just give it up early.

I feel like he is a paid shill design to give new or uninformed ele misinformation.

yup same feeling or that he simply is paid to keep praising anet to make their bad decision look better on the forums. even though its clear to any person not braindead that they continually choose to ignore the issues with the ele instead of fixing them

Please look at my complete posting history and then review your statement.

i did and its the same bs as always, not even vids to try to prove the claim on top mobs…
i quoted another person which actually also proved you wrong easily right here which you choice to ignore yet again and still keep your idiotic claim -.-

as good as every post i see you make is the same bs, and there is a ton of them -.-

Galtrix.7369:

Caffynated.5713:

Galtrix.7369:

I’m still doing massive damage even without full berserker gear.

You’re doing what you mistakenly believe is massive damage. Meanwhile, I’m Hurr Durr Blading my way through life 60,000 damage at a time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITieQhX0MeE

MY EYES!! DX

nice dmg there, now maybe the i**** zely can give it a look and kitten with his lies

Let me get out of work to be able to watch this vid and then we’ll see

But I have a strong feeling that what ever videos people will provide they will not disprove my point, for a number of reasons:
- the conditions of the test have to be the same for both skills
- the traits have to be optimal, or use no traits, for both

Just try it for yourself like I advised: go cast MS on a human-size target and see on average how many meteors hit it.
If that number is around 6, then maybe Anet is not giving me much money.

Simple reply there, the staff just sucks as a weapon. With a crit build the crit it gives is a percent less than having two of any weapon. I could run d/d on the build I linked earlier and still deal more damage than with a staff (okay bad example that is meant for massive damage) so the s/f which the focus doesn’t deal much damage compared to a dagger it’s more defensive, but with the build and with the right set up you can still output way more damage than a conjured weapon and way more than a staff. I think staff is more for slowing a target from what I’ve seen while playing than it is for anything. If I went into a support build that focused on keeping allies alive I’d go d/d with a build wooden posted because the healing done on the staff isn’t that great compared to boons and the faster, longer overtime heals of the breath on the d/d set up and the cleanse/heal on it for the fifth ability (but that is way off subject).

I think my point here is, why use the staff?

frayon.3984:

I think my point here is, why use the staff?

Have you even seen the ascended ones? Dem spires are GLORIOUS.
Also casting meteor with a human female is prolly the most visually pleasing thing to do in the game.

Talking about oranges and apples, I agree you can’t compare GS and Staff, melee and range, pbaoe and rngaoe.

But, if we compare Ele’s Dagger skills with war’s GS, there’s no denial warrrior’s dps wins by far, while having the sustainability to deal such damage. So, it may be true the two classes can deal the same amount of damage in their best situation possible (staff ele for big immobile mindless stuff – so rewarding) and War’s GS for anything that has a minimum of (artificial or not) intelligence/life.

Here is the steady weapon test and Zelyhn statment is true that Met shower can hit higher than 100B despite what i could find in the open world.

Thanks for testing this.

Actually I made a mistake.
Sabull and I rechecked and retested the chance to hit, and we found the following:
- light golem (human size): 3.1 hits on average
- heavy golem (almost twice as big): 5.4 hits on average
So the numbers on a human-sized target are lower than what I previously claimed.

However Sabull just found out that the blasting staff trait boosts the radius of each meteor from 90 to an estimated 120, which increases your chances to hit.

so the formula for hit chance per meteor is
( ( meteor radius + target hitbox radius ) / shower radius ) ^ 2

UltraHiDef.4809

Have you tried this? Static only works when you move through it, and most people would use a stability, not to mention ele doesn’t have quickness like warrior. And, cripples and chills don’t lock someone in a circle.
I guess Elementalist can have damage against static objects. Have luck killing someone in 5 seconds with a Meteor Shower

Funny how when a warrior uses his stun, you do not mention stability but when an ele uses Static Field, all of a sudden stability is a viable option.

As for the not locking down and killing something in 5 seconds, that’s not the purpose of the skill. Meteor Shower is either for pressure against groups, or for area control, neither of which a 100b warrior can accomplish. That’s why Meteor Shower is useful in WvW group battles while 100b warriors twiddle their thumbs hoping someone rushes over to their side so they get a chance to fight.

As for hitting someone with Meteor Shower, it’s actually fairly easy. Just cast it at your feet and stand still. Most players will take the bait and charge you, thinking they’ll outdamage you. Because most of the warriors you encounter in the actual game aren’t nearly as powerful, skilled or smart as the guy you saw in the video. Quite the opposite.

Zelyhn.8069

However Sabull just found out that the blasting staff trait boosts the radius of each meteor from 90 to an estimated 120, which increases your chances to hit.

That’s actually VERY interesting. Didn’t know that. Thanks. :-)

ThiBash.5634:

UltraHiDef.4809

Have you tried this? Static only works when you move through it, and most people would use a stability, not to mention ele doesn’t have quickness like warrior. And, cripples and chills don’t lock someone in a circle.
I guess Elementalist can have damage against static objects. Have luck killing someone in 5 seconds with a Meteor Shower

Funny how when a warrior uses his stun, you do not mention stability but when an ele uses Static Field, all of a sudden stability is a viable option.

As for the not locking down and killing something in 5 seconds, that’s not the purpose of the skill. Meteor Shower is either for pressure against groups, or for area control, neither of which a 100b warrior can accomplish. That’s why Meteor Shower is useful in WvW group battles while 100b warriors twiddle their thumbs hoping someone rushes over to their side so they get a chance to fight.

As for hitting someone with Meteor Shower, it’s actually fairly easy. Just cast it at your feet and stand still. Most players will take the bait and charge you, thinking they’ll outdamage you. Because most of the warriors you encounter in the actual game aren’t nearly as powerful, skilled or smart as the guy you saw in the video. Quite the opposite.

I’ve never seen so much ignorance about the mechanics of a game in a single post, I’ll educate you.
First I’m talking pvp perspective here, don’t change the subject. You’ve obviously haven’t played pvp in a long time, maybe before the implementation of spectator mode.
Warriors have a stability skill of 40 sec cd and can stun ever 7 seconds with a stun build, ele has stability of 90 sec cd and a stun of 40 sec cd. Do I need to say anything more? And it’s your problem if you’re on t8 and expect people to not be kittens, I propably can just use entangle on you and you wouldn’t even know that you can destroy it.

ThiBash.5634:

Zelyhn.8069

However Sabull just found out that the blasting staff trait boosts the radius of each meteor from 90 to an estimated 120, which increases your chances to hit.

That’s actually VERY interesting. Didn’t know that. Thanks. :-)

All credits go to Sabull
This requires further testing though, I’ll try to confirm this asap.

Zelyhn.8069:

The fact that I don’t post videos doesn’t take away the fact that an elem can do 100b worth of damage in a single attack.

Your imaginary numbers aren’t a fact. Hence, the lack of video.

Zelyhn

All credits go to Sabull
This requires further testing though, I’ll try to confirm this asap

Tried it on the dummies today but I didn’t notice a change in behavior with or without the trait, at times I was 99% sure a 120 range meteor should have hit the golem dummy but it did not. How was this tested and are you sure it’s actually true?

UltraHiEgo

I’ve never seen so much ignorance about the mechanics of a game in a single post, I’ll educate you.

Thank you oh mighty veteran of the PvP! Let us humble be enlightened by your mere presence!

UltraConfused

First I’m talking pvp perspective here, don’t change the subject. You’ve obviously haven’t played pvp in a long time, maybe before the implementation of spectator mode.

Since when is WvW not PvP? Oh wait, that’s right! You mean sPvP. I’m so sorry. I wasn’t aware there was a rule that prohibited me from discussing anything non-sPvP. My mistake.

Ultra1Argument4Insults

Warriors have a stability skill of 40 sec cd and can stun ever 7 seconds with a stun build, ele has stability of 90 sec cd and a stun of 40 sec cd. Do I need to say anything more?

Armor of Earth, Earth’s Embrace and Rock Solid, thank you very much.

UltraRaging

And it’s your problem if you’re on t8 and expect people to not be kittens, I propably can just use entangle on you and you wouldn’t even know that you can destroy it.

Somebody’s got issues…

ThiBash.5634:

Zelyhn

All credits go to Sabull
This requires further testing though, I’ll try to confirm this asap

Tried it on the dummies today but I didn’t notice a change in behavior with or without the trait, at times I was 99% sure a 120 range meteor should have hit the golem dummy but it did not. How was this tested and are you sure it’s actually true?

UltraHiEgo

I’ve never seen so much ignorance about the mechanics of a game in a single post, I’ll educate you.

Thank you oh mighty veteran of the PvP! Let us humble be enlightened by your mere presence!

First I’m talking pvp perspective here, don’t change the subject. You’ve obviously haven’t played pvp in a long time, maybe before the implementation of spectator mode.

Since when is WvW not PvP? Oh wait, that’s right! You mean sPvP. I’m so sorry. I wasn’t aware there was a rule that prohibited me from discussing anything non-sPvP. My mistake.

Ultra1Argument4Insults

Warriors have a stability skill of 40 sec cd and can stun ever 7 seconds with a stun build, ele has stability of 90 sec cd and a stun of 40 sec cd. Do I need to say anything more?

Armor of Earth, Earth’s Embrace and Rock Solid, thank you very much.

UltraRaging

And it’s your problem if you’re on t8 and expect people to not be kittens, I propably can just use entangle on you and you wouldn’t even know that you can destroy it.

Somebody’s got issues…

Looks like I hit a nerve, keep it classy.

UltraHiDef

Looks like I hit a nerve, keep it classy.

I suppose you have. Regardless, you’re not convincing me that you’re right if 3/4 of you posts consists of insults, backed up by one failing argument.

ThiBash.5634:

UltraHiDef

Looks like I hit a nerve, keep it classy.

I suppose you have. Regardless, you’re not convincing me that you’re right if 3/4 of you posts consists of insults, backed up by one failing argument.

Whether you’re convinced or not doesn’t matter, go find yourself a stun-warrior and ask for a duel on your staff. I doubt you’ll scrap half his health. I’ve dueled staff elementalist from oPP(extremely insane good people, and are known for their combat skills as roamers and 1v1 players in T1, along with RIOT) I just out healed all of his damage without attacking him for a good 5 minutes until he stopped attacking. Keep in mind, one guy said his ele here says his “support” staff ele out-dps’s a warrior.

I suppose that would be a solution. I’ll just have to take your word for it that they’re actually skilled in 1v1 with staff, and not just a group support build you caught off-guard.

ARM

Your imaginary numbers aren’t a fact. Hence, the lack of video.

If each meteor deals 2000 damage, and you cast it into a WvW zerg, you’ll get 24*5*2000=240,000 damage. Is that enough for you?

ThiBash.5634:

ARM

Your imaginary numbers aren’t a fact. Hence, the lack of video.

If each meteor deals 2000 damage, and you cast it into a WvW zerg, you’ll get 24*5*2000=240,000 damage. Is that enough for you?

You could actually get more than that since each meteor can hit up to 5 targets

Hence the 24 meteors * 5 targets each * 2000 damage per meteor…

ThiBash.5634:

Hence the 24 meteors * 5 targets each * 2000 damage per meteor…

Hence I need more coffee.

Zelyhn

Hence I need more coffee.

I can relate to that.

UltraHiDef

Keep in mind, one guy said his ele here says his “support” staff ele out-dps’s a warrior.

I do agree that is nonsense.

Who would actually stand in the circle and get hit by it though? Better question though, even if said person DID stand in the meteors, what’s the chance that even 1 would hit them? I usually do stand in the meteors just to demoralize the ele who’s trying to kill me with them because I know it wont kill me. Even throw in a couple /laughs while the meteors rain down around me. Even if a couple do hit me, i’ll have regened back to full before he even finishes channeling it. Even on my thief who has over 3k armor and 16k hp and still can crit most people for over 10k, I just stand and /laugh.

Ele’s damage is pathetic compared to other classes. I wonder if the devs will ever wake up and realize that. It wasn’t that great even in beta but we still took a more than 60% nerf to our overall damage because clueless noobs wouldn’t move out of the red circles when it actually could deal a decent amount of damage. IMO, ele needs its damage increased by about 200% just to put it on par with other classes. We shouldn’t be so squishy and still hit like a wet noodle. If I have to be glass, then I want the damage to make up for it.

Meanwhile my thief and warrior can be as tanky as I want and outdamage eles with just auto attacks and have ridiculous condition removal and mobility. How the hell is that fair?

Someone already mentioned this but:
The Problem was that the Elementalist had INSANE mobility back in time with old RTL and bugged lightning flash (were you could stand under a b ridge and blink yourself ON the bridge by moving the circle there^^)

In a PvP System that can sometimes be a downright mobility-fight rather than a real PvP the X/D Elementalist was a god. (personally I’d like some modes where team annihilation is the only objective^^, but wouldnt play that with ele)

In 1on1 fights Elementalist was maybe a little stronger maybe a little weaker than other Classes.

So first they ripped him of from his mobility, then they buffed other Classes and nerfed his dmg.

So now he has the mobility of other classes and other classes have builds that just stomp the elementalist.

When other classes outdps you by hitting the 1 button, unless you are in full zerker, while you are the Squishiest thing there is (especially in zerker) somethings just going terribly wrong.

ThiBash.5634:

ARM

Your imaginary numbers aren’t a fact. Hence, the lack of video.

If each meteor deals 2000 damage, and you cast it into a WvW zerg, you’ll get 24*5*2000=240,000 damage. Is that enough for you?

Great, so show me a video of that ever happening. Show me a video of half of that ever happening. Show me a video of just one quarter of that ever happening…

Didn’t think so.

Humans didn’t wait until the Russians put a man in orbit to check whether the earth is flat or not you know. The ancient greeks proved everything long before, using maths. Sounds familiar?

Today I decided to take my ele and warrior to spvp to compare these two skills (meteor vs 100b).

Both Classes I had in zerker gear, and glass cannon traited, focusing traits on the one that would increase dmg of said skill.

VS one single heavy armor target-
-Meteor Shower “MS” has an avg. hit rate of 6 out of 24 but can be as low as 3 or as high as 8.
Average dmg for six hits totaled 12.8k on a 24s cd with a 3.75s cast.

-100B did 14.6k avg on a 6.5s cd with a 3.5 cast

Result is
100b can do 14.6k on avg every 10 sec’s or 1.46k/s.
MS can do 12.8k on avg every 27.75 sec’s or 0.46k/s.
On average 100b does more dmg per use and per sec then MS can vs single target.

VS aoe groups of mobs (5 in this case):

-MS can it 5 targets now assuming they all remain in place and each would be hit the same number of times ( avg 6 times).

5x (12.8k)= 64k per use, or 2.3k/s

-100B can it 3 targets and assuming the same.
3x (14.6k) = 43.8k per use, 4.38k/s.

In this case MS would do more dmg per use but over an extended fight its dmg/time is almost half that of 100b even though can only hit 3 targets at a time. MS would need 10 target with in its area, and spread out enough so that each is hit 6 times, to pass 100b in dmg per second.

Now all numbers will change based on boons, armor, traits, and target. I just used spvp target so as to have same target, and equal gear on both char’s.

On a side note 100b take 3.5 sec to do full dmg, MS takes 8 secs, make ms much easier to escape most of its dmg, by moving. its also much easier to stun lock someone for 3.5 sec then 8.