Guild Wars 2

Taldren.7523:

Do all the math you like, I just performed it in the real world (as real as a virtual MMO world can be) and under ideal conditions it hit a real target it hit for 6k.

I did enjoy all the extra hoops to jump through you threw in there.

So nows its:
1. Target is below 33% health.
2. You are within 600 units.
3. The target is knocked down … so they didn’t have stability or a stun break.
4. You don’t have weakness on you.
5. You have full stacks of bloodlust.
6. You have full borderland bloodlust.
7. The target is full zerker with zero points in any toughness line.

Why not add that they have 25 stacks of vulnerability and you have full guard killer bonus too?

I’m not saying I hit that much on every target. I’m saying it’s possible to. I don’t think it’s a fault to use synergizing combos and traits. But if you’d rather run up to someone and press just about any attack because it doesn’t matter, by all means, play a warrior.

Kyskythyn.6471:

Taldren.7523:

Kyskythyn.6471:

Taldren.7523:

So now we have the ever so popular 20/30/10/0/10 build?

So, if the target is burning, below 33% health, I am in Air, and am practically in melee range … I get to do better than average damage with the least amount of survivability in the game. But if none of those are valid I still get to keep the lowest amount of survivability in the game for just average damage.

I don’t see how that risk/reward works out compared to how its applied to other classes is all.

Hi, I run 20/30/10/0/10.
Between Internal Fire, Bolt to the Heart, Tempest Defense, and Stone Splinters I get +73% damage just from traits on my phoenix in an earthquake-phoenix combo. Damage is in the second post which you laughed off as a downed uplevel.

Also, 600 range is not “practically in melee range,” at least for S/D. It’s +10% to nearly all my skills.

1. That doesn’t add up to 73%.
2. So now its everything i said before -and- they need to be knocked down/stunned. Another hoop to jump through that is negatable by stability/stun breaks. Nice.
3. S/D build with no Arcana and using Tempest Defense … huh?!?

Ah, so it does. It would be 10+20+20+10 for 60% more. So 448% instead of 484%.

What’s wrong with no arcana and tempest defense? This is an offensive build.

Well many things. Why would you ever pick tempest over fresh air for an offensive build? At the very least, its an extra two lightning bolts every five seconds.
The damage boost in tempest is a 20% boost on one attack every 45 seconds, provided you hit both earthquake and Phoenix, and that your opponent has no stunbreaker or stability. The defensive boost requires you to be cc’d and then hit again, which with an elementalist’s life pool is like inviting them to saw open your head.
Most ele builds need arcana because we need to dodge to simply survive and all of our dodge traits are in there, as well as Elemental attunement which has a good number of survival and mobility boons. We also need condition removal because we simply cannot afford to leave any condition on for any amount of time, and Evasive arcana both helps with that and gives an extra blast finisher for your might stacking pleasure.

Pretty much what sums it up is that there are a number of things we are somewhat forced to take just to survive, because of how little health or defensive options we have, and the fact that we don’t really have spectacular damage to compensate. Many builds in other classes can reach close to that reward with vastly lower amounts of risk.

Edit:
Also it’s 6:30 in the AM so I’m ranting a bit, but seriously elementalist is in a bad shape.

P Fun Daddy.1208:

Well many things. Why would you ever pick tempest over fresh air for an offensive build? At the very least, its an extra two lightning bolts every five seconds.
The damage boost in tempest is a 20% boost on one attack every 45 seconds, provided you hit both earthquake and Phoenix, and that your opponent has no stunbreaker or stability. The defensive boost requires you to be cc’d and then hit again, which with an elementalist’s life pool is like inviting them to saw open your head.
Most ele builds need arcana because we need to dodge to simply survive and all of our dodge traits are in there, as well as Elemental attunement which has a good number of survival and mobility boons. We also need condition removal because we simply cannot afford to leave any condition on for any amount of time, and Evasive arcana both helps with that and gives an extra blast finisher for your might stacking pleasure.

Pretty much what sums it up is that there are a number of things we are somewhat forced to take just to survive, because of how little health or defensive options we have, and the fact that we don’t really have spectacular damage to compensate. Many builds in other classes can reach close to that reward with vastly lower amounts of risk.

I think fresh air is better for d/d, where the autoattack is actually useful. I would rather not be stuck in air attunement all the time, even if it means extra lightning strikes and air attunes. But that is just my personal preference.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but tempest shield stuns enemies as they use the cc move on you. This helps me deal with cc, because I have no stability. That and it is down to a 25s cd as of the last patch.
My combos rely on earthquake and updraft, so the added 20% damage is really nice on top of an already reasonable defensive trait.
As for condition removal, I have phoenix and cleansing wave from s/d, as well as ether renewal. It’s not the best condi removal, but it’s good enough for me.
I don’t mind being squishy as I can one combo most people and those that I can’t usually don’t have enough pressure to kill me or are furiously spamming all their cds to heal and get away. That’s not to say I don’t die by any means, but in 1v1s and small group, it is very good.

Kyskythyn.6471:

P Fun Daddy.1208:

Well many things. Why would you ever pick tempest over fresh air for an offensive build? At the very least, its an extra two lightning bolts every five seconds.
The damage boost in tempest is a 20% boost on one attack every 45 seconds, provided you hit both earthquake and Phoenix, and that your opponent has no stunbreaker or stability. The defensive boost requires you to be cc’d and then hit again, which with an elementalist’s life pool is like inviting them to saw open your head.
Most ele builds need arcana because we need to dodge to simply survive and all of our dodge traits are in there, as well as Elemental attunement which has a good number of survival and mobility boons. We also need condition removal because we simply cannot afford to leave any condition on for any amount of time, and Evasive arcana both helps with that and gives an extra blast finisher for your might stacking pleasure.

Pretty much what sums it up is that there are a number of things we are somewhat forced to take just to survive, because of how little health or defensive options we have, and the fact that we don’t really have spectacular damage to compensate. Many builds in other classes can reach close to that reward with vastly lower amounts of risk.

I think fresh air is better for d/d, where the autoattack is actually useful. I would rather not be stuck in air attunement all the time, even if it means extra lightning strikes and air attunes. But that is just my personal preference.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but tempest shield stuns enemies as they use the cc move on you. This helps me deal with cc, because I have no stability. That and it is down to a 25s cd as of the last patch.
My combos rely on earthquake and updraft, so the added 20% damage is really nice on top of an already reasonable defensive trait.
As for condition removal, I have phoenix and cleansing wave from s/d, as well as ether renewal. It’s not the best condi removal, but it’s good enough for me.
I don’t mind being squishy as I can one combo most people and those that I can’t usually don’t have enough pressure to kill me or are furiously spamming all their cds to heal and get away. That’s not to say I don’t die by any means, but in 1v1s and small group, it is very good.

If it works for you, more power to you. It does sound like the people you’re fighting haven’t learned to dodge though haha. They probably don’t expect to get much resistance out of an ele.

Kyskythyn.6471:

Taldren.7523:

4. With that build, 2600 Power, and using quake->Phoenix … it hits for 6k … not 12k. Then again you are just plain dead as you have what … 14k hitpoints and no toughness?

1060 * (2420 + (35*6)+200+30) * 1.7 / 1980 * (1+.1+.2+.2+.1+.1) * (1.5+1.2+.1)

1060 high end ascended scepter atk * (2420 base power+ 35*6 stacks of might+200 dragon breath buns+30 minor borderlands bloodlust) * 1.7 phoenix coefficient / 1980 zerk ranger base armor * (1+ .1 internal fire + .2 tempest defense + .2 bolt to the heart + .1 stone splinters+ .1 sigil of impact) * (1.5 base crit damage+1.2 zerker crit damage +.1 arcane lightning) = 12390 dmg

I have 10.8k base health, 1960 armor and am proud of it.

is this for pve or WvW? Just wondering. If wvw how are you not being 1 shot by some class and two shot by the rest?

Taldren.7523:

Do all the math you like, I just performed it in the real world (as real as a virtual MMO world can be) and under ideal conditions it hit a real target it hit for 6k.

I did enjoy all the extra hoops to jump through you threw in there.

So nows its:
1. Target is below 33% health.
2. You are within 600 units.
3. The target is knocked down … so they didn’t have stability or a stun break.
4. You don’t have weakness on you.
5. You have full stacks of bloodlust.
6. You have full borderland bloodlust.
7. The target is full zerker with zero points in any toughness line.

Why not add that they have 25 stacks of vulnerability and you have full guard killer bonus too?

You aren’t fighting robots every class has hoops to jump through for damage.

Warrior – 0/20/20/0/30 pre-unsuspecting foe nerf Mace/Shield + GS easy mode.

1. Stun foe
2. Swap to GS 100 blades.
3. Pressure by facetanking with healing signet. Force dodge rolls
4. Press F1 Swap to GS 100 blades

Rinse and repeat it was easy mode. Against any class without good stability access is was extremely easy mode. Damage is so scary stun cds so short you would just win without thinking to much. Then you come across a guardian or another warrior and the fight lasted much much longer because of the stability that both classes have.

The 1 and only reason a warrior requires less effort to do more damage is the sustain that healing signet gives, higher armor, combined with adrenal health, and the hp pool.

Before that buff a warrior was “forced” to go glassy because you couldn’t stay in the fight long enough. So a warrior was essentially a thief with no stealth and long cooldowns. It always had the damage but it couldn’t stay in the fight long enough to do the damage. That is why it was bottom of the sPvP list for needed classes ranger was higher than warrior.

These are old threads for warrior

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/I-love-being-a-child-class/first

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/warrior-skills-traits-not-on-par-with-others/first#post1668659

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/Warrior-This-class-is-already-dead/first

Should look familiar to alot of what is seen on this and many other class forums. It’s a total 180 from where it was and how people viewed the class as free kills. The damage was higher then than it was now. It required more effort to land it then than now.

Healing signet > effort

^
Every aspect of that is under your control. You just have to worry about the enemy status (stunned or not). With the elementalist you have to worry about the enemy status and many different aspects of your own status. Again, the complexity has never been an issue. I point you back to the original post … its the fact that there is no true reward for all the complexity. We shouldn’t have to checklist 7 different things to do the damage that a warrior can do in two button presses. We should far exceed them.

Nor is this all about warriors … every class (don’t know about ranger) has a far better Risk-Reward system than the elementalist.

ThiBash.5634:

Taldren.7523:

Even after the hammer nerf my warrior has 500 more armor, nearly double the hitpoint, and can press just about any attack and deal more damage than my elementalist whenever he wants.

Then why don’t you go play warrior if they’re so great? Because hitting for more than 3k with my staff ele certainly isn’t a problem for me…but if it’s not working for you, why play it?

because some people enjoy certain playstyles. they want to play how they want to play while also being on a fair level of effectiveness. i shake my head at people like you.

Samhayn.2385:

is this for pve or WvW? Just wondering. If wvw how are you not being 1 shot by some class and two shot by the rest?

WvW solo and small group roaming. I do occasionally get one or two shot (dat 1500 range CnD steal backstab…), but most of the time I rely on blinding, blocking, and dodging an opponent’s burst while putting enough pressure on them that they cannot unload on me. Pretty much anyone who is going to one or two shot me is going to die in one earthquake phoenix anyway. If a fight is too much, then I have enough mobility as an ele to get out of the fight and heal back up. Some builds are really tough to fight. I usually lose to dps guardians because of all their blocks, and about 50-50 with 3333333 s/d thieves because of their evades. Oh, and perplex engis ’cause they are fair and balanced.

I tried a fresh air dd in pvp today. The damage was fun. I only lost to necros hiding in their ds. Anyone notice a buff to how long they can stay in it

The Game Slayer.7632:

ThiBash.5634:

Taldren.7523:

Even after the hammer nerf my warrior has 500 more armor, nearly double the hitpoint, and can press just about any attack and deal more damage than my elementalist whenever he wants.

Then why don’t you go play warrior if they’re so great? Because hitting for more than 3k with my staff ele certainly isn’t a problem for me…but if it’s not working for you, why play it?

because some people enjoy certain playstyles. they want to play how they want to play while also being on a fair level of effectiveness. i shake my head at people like you.

What he wants is a warrior that looks like an elementalist. The ele has active defenses rather than higher stats. If he likes that playstyle then he must accept the lower base stats that come with them. You can shake as much as you like, but the comparison made in the post is just one of those ‘look how awesome the warrior is and you are not’ posts that I’m done shaking my head at. You want warrior effectiveness? Then go play a warrior and stop trying to tell us we’re doing everything wrong here.

FrownyClown.8402:

I tried a fresh air dd in pvp today. The damage was fun. I only lost to necros hiding in their ds. Anyone notice a buff to how long they can stay in it

It was buffed last patch

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vital_Persistence it use to be 25%. So necro’s can idle inside of DS a bit longer.

oh. I didn’t notice. Both of their health bars tend to melt pretty quick

ThiBash.5634:

The Game Slayer.7632:

ThiBash.5634:

Taldren.7523:

Even after the hammer nerf my warrior has 500 more armor, nearly double the hitpoint, and can press just about any attack and deal more damage than my elementalist whenever he wants.

Then why don’t you go play warrior if they’re so great? Because hitting for more than 3k with my staff ele certainly isn’t a problem for me…but if it’s not working for you, why play it?

because some people enjoy certain playstyles. they want to play how they want to play while also being on a fair level of effectiveness. i shake my head at people like you.

What he wants is a warrior that looks like an elementalist. The ele has active defenses rather than higher stats. If he likes that playstyle then he must accept the lower base stats that come with them. You can shake as much as you like, but the comparison made in the post is just one of those ‘look how awesome the warrior is and you are not’ posts that I’m done shaking my head at. You want warrior effectiveness? Then go play a warrior and stop trying to tell us we’re doing everything wrong here.

Then let them cut our cooldowns in half to promote more active defense and increase our power co-efficients to compensate for our low survivability. You’re also looking at things mostly from a staff perspective ThiBash, no fault in that, but please take our other weapon sets into account as well.

They (the dev’s) really have a tough job since we’re the only class locked into a single range without a weapon swap, 1200 we’re pretty decent, 900 not too bad for burst, 600 below without a focus it can be rough as hell.

ThiBash.5634:

What he wants is a warrior that looks like an elementalist. The ele has active defenses rather than higher stats. If he likes that playstyle then he must accept the lower base stats that come with them. You can shake as much as you like, but the comparison made in the post is just one of those ‘look how awesome the warrior is and you are not’ posts that I’m done shaking my head at. You want warrior effectiveness? Then go play a warrior and stop trying to tell us we’re doing everything wrong here.

No, that is completely dishonest. That is what you want me to be saying so that you can look like some kind of hero to a story of your own making.

And I play far more than a warrior, but you can’t accept a non-biased view from someone that plays all but one of the classes in the game and likes them all. You need this to be a us vs them arguement and it isn’t.

I am not even going to explain it again to you as it has been said many times now in many of my posts in this thread.

I completely agree with the OP. At melee range our damage sucks. Why does it have to be only one class—the warrior—who excels at melee range? I thought the premise of this game was: there’s no healer, no tank, no dps, and you can play any class you want. So shouldn’t it be balanced around that instead of giving one class all the melee dps power?

ThiBash.5634:

What he wants is a warrior that looks like an elementalist. The ele has active defenses rather than higher stats. If he likes that playstyle then he must accept the lower base stats that come with them. You can shake as much as you like, but the comparison made in the post is just one of those ‘look how awesome the warrior is and you are not’ posts that I’m done shaking my head at. You want warrior effectiveness? Then go play a warrior and stop trying to tell us we’re doing everything wrong here.

The elementalist has a different form of defense than the warrior, who also has plenty of defenses. The warrior has access to shield/sword blocks, ww atk dodges (high mobility), and bursting to regain endurance. If anything, the elementalist’s active defenses requires more skill to use than the warrior’s form of defenses. Yet, skillful play is not rewarded with any DPS.

MarzAttakz.9608:

You’re also looking at things mostly from a staff perspective ThiBash, no fault in that, but please take our other weapon sets into account as well.

Fair point. I’ve been a bit too much staff focused. Sorry for that.

Taldren.7523:

No, that is completely dishonest. That is what you want me to be saying so that you can look like some kind of hero to a story of your own making.

I’m sorry?

KazNaka.4718:

The elementalist has a different form of defense than the warrior, who also has plenty of defenses. The warrior has access to shield/sword blocks, ww atk dodges (high mobility), and bursting to regain endurance. If anything, the elementalist’s active defenses requires more skill to use than the warrior’s form of defenses. Yet, skillful play is not rewarded with any DPS.

No, it is rewarded with more utility and partywide support at the same level of dps.

KazNaka.4718:

I completely agree with the OP. At melee range our damage sucks. Why does it have to be only one class—the warrior—who excels at melee range? I thought the premise of this game was: there’s no healer, no tank, no dps, and you can play any class you want. So shouldn’t it be balanced around that instead of giving one class all the melee dps power?

ThiBash.5634:

What he wants is a warrior that looks like an elementalist. The ele has active defenses rather than higher stats. If he likes that playstyle then he must accept the lower base stats that come with them. You can shake as much as you like, but the comparison made in the post is just one of those ‘look how awesome the warrior is and you are not’ posts that I’m done shaking my head at. You want warrior effectiveness? Then go play a warrior and stop trying to tell us we’re doing everything wrong here.

The elementalist has a different form of defense than the warrior, who also has plenty of defenses. The warrior has access to shield/sword blocks, ww atk dodges (high mobility), and bursting to regain endurance. If anything, the elementalist’s active defenses requires more skill to use than the warrior’s form of defenses. Yet, skillful play is not rewarded with any DPS.

You have to be a new warrior.

Warrior has always been able to good great damage, and it actually did more damage before. The reason warrior is so good now is Heaing Signet that is the only reason.

Comparisons to warriors is silly vs elementalist because the healing signet is what allows warriors to now face tank damage to land their big hits. They always had the big hits though.

That’s why I find these conversation silly because people that bring up warriors have to be people that rolled one recently or never played it much before healing signet. Prior to the healing signet buff Warriors had much easier access to their damage modifiers so they did more damage before. Now they lost some of that damage but got sustain. So these warrior comparisons should be more about their defensive abilities being better than a ele not about damage. If I could face tank and had short cooldowns on hard hitting attacks my ele would be a warrior.

Go back look at videos of warriors prior to access to 392 hps base healing signet and adrenal health scaling with healing power. Watch how long the awesome warrior could stay in a fight if endure pain wasn’t up.

This is old warrior great damage no sustain. Didn’t matter that it hit like a truck if it could stay in a fight longer enough to land any of it. This is montage so these are all victories but look at his health fighting more than 1 person. This is what almost all warriors use to run before. Now give that the new healing signet and buffed adrenal health scaling. Replace axe with mace because axe kind of got nerfed. Tada the warrior you see today. Thats why no warrior really runs healing surge anymore because signet is soooo good. Before everyone ran Surge or mending.

This is the old warrior that pretty much most classes saw as free kills. What changed? Healing signet so sustain changed damage was nerfed.

oZii.2864:

So these warrior comparisons should be more about their defensive abilities being better than a ele not about damage.

No, it should be about Risk vs Reward. Given the risk inherent to the class and the hoops that we jump through the Reward should be far greater than those classes that only have to press 2 buttons to be just as effective.

Yet he was able to put that video together running close to full berserker, healing surge, one cleanse, two stun breakers and an offensive utility.

Sure, they traded some damage reduction for ludicrous sustain, what did we get as compensation when our sustain and mobility were nerfed?

4 month old regen warrior video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oj5FL6tdmnA
How many mistakes does he make vs 3 (granted not too good) players and still survives to make the video?

MarzAttakz.9608:

Yet he was able to put that video together running close to full berserker, healing surge, one cleanse, two stun breakers and an offensive utility.

Sure, they traded some damage reduction for ludicrous sustain, what did we get as compensation when our sustain and mobility were nerfed?

4 month old regen warrior video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oj5FL6tdmnA
How many mistakes does he make vs 3 (granted not too good) players and still survives to make the video?

He pulled it off against players that aren’t very skilled. If that was truly as good as it looked in that video then warriors would have never needed buffs to begin with. What we get as compensation isn’t really the point of the conversation. This is about damage my point is that warriors always had damage they had it reduced some and gained crazy sustain.

The op is about damage mobility is one of the 100 other RTL threads running around. In WvW ele sustain was nerfed because you can’t use mist form and ether together anymore other wise it hasn’t changed in WvW.

In your video he can make those mistakes because of healing signet. That is what makes the warrior good now. The damage was always there. People bring up the warriors damage but its worse now than it was. So why bring up warriors damage when trying to make the case about ele damage when the damage gap is closer now then previously. The sustain and survivability is the real issue with ele not damage.

oZii.2864:

This is about damage my point is that warriors always had damage they had it reduced some and gained crazy sustain.

snip

In your video he can make those mistakes because of healing signet. That is what makes the warrior good now. The damage was always there. People bring up the warriors damage but its worse now than it was. So why bring up warriors damage when trying to make the case about ele damage when the damage gap is closer now then previously. The sustain and survivability is the real issue with ele not damage.

Thanks for clearing that up.

Let us see where we could get good risk vs reward for better damage.

We will use the ever popular D/D

Fire Grab hits for not on fire damage all the time.

Lighting whip auto attack is one of the best in the game so no change there.

RTL damage boost?

Does Burning speed really need need a damage boost?

Ring of fire really need a damage boost?

Drake breath really need a damage boost?

Cone of cold?

The only skills I see to make the case for more damage on D/D is earth auto attack, maybe vapor blade but it has vulnerability on it and 1 auto can put 2 stacks on.

Lightning touch could definitely use some love but weakness is really strong and should be utilized if possible.

So Fire Grab remove burning stipulation, buff earth auto, lightning touch and dragon claw. Everything else does pretty good damage imo.

We use Scepter which is burst damage, contrary to what many people think arc lighting can put good pressure on someone and it is a auto attack. Lightning strike hits pretty good damage on short CD with is instant with range.

So my only issues on scepter are – fire auto attack, landing dragon tooth, water 2, dust devil could use increase cast time but thats not a spell used for damage.

So I can see the issues but I don’t think ele damage is really that bad when you look at your hard hitters, and the fact that you most don’t have to look for filler from auto attacks.

Putting it that way oZii does make sense, regarding our auto-attacks which we never really use outside of perhaps lightning whip, I’d like to see some attack chains added to them and the damage upped a little (within reason of course).

Personally I’d like a reason to stay in an attunement slightly longer, instead of spamming 2-5 because they’re the only skills with decent damage and then switching.

Looking at our class mechanics at 20 point investment, defensively Elemental Attunement is our go to (generally speaking) and Lingering Elements is a bonus.

What if Lingering Elements became a class mechanic with 15 Arcana becoming Persistent Elements which extends Lingering Elements duration to the same duration as our attunement swap and expands the attunement bonus to include our 10/15 (20/25 too ?) point trait buffs. Obviously the idea needs some fine tuning.

Kyskythyn.6471:

Samhayn.2385:

is this for pve or WvW? Just wondering. If wvw how are you not being 1 shot by some class and two shot by the rest?

WvW solo and small group roaming. I do occasionally get one or two shot (dat 1500 range CnD steal backstab…), but most of the time I rely on blinding, blocking, and dodging an opponent’s burst while putting enough pressure on them that they cannot unload on me. Pretty much anyone who is going to one or two shot me is going to die in one earthquake phoenix anyway. If a fight is too much, then I have enough mobility as an ele to get out of the fight and heal back up. Some builds are really tough to fight. I usually lose to dps guardians because of all their blocks, and about 50-50 with 3333333 s/d thieves because of their evades. Oh, and perplex engis ’cause they are fair and balanced.

thanks was just wondering, I play a power DS Necro and have yet to fight a Ele that didn’t die or run. Well I don’t play ab Ele it just to me seems like a large amount of your damage is very situational. Actually I feel that most Cloth wearing not bunker/condition specs risk vs reward is off but the ele does the best at highlighting it right now. PU stealth/condi build for mesmer and Dire bunker/condi for necro do a good job of over shadowing issues those classes have.

hopefully when utilities and new weapons are added we can see a some better balance between class.

MarzAttakz.9608:

Putting it that way oZii does make sense, regarding our auto-attacks which we never really use outside of perhaps lightning whip, I’d like to see some attack chains added to them and the damage upped a little (within reason of course).

Personally I’d like a reason to stay in an attunement slightly longer, instead of spamming 2-5 because they’re the only skills with decent damage and then switching.

Looking at our class mechanics at 20 point investment, defensively Elemental Attunement is our go to (generally speaking) and Lingering Elements is a bonus.

What if Lingering Elements became a class mechanic with 15 Arcana becoming Persistent Elements which extends Lingering Elements duration to the same duration as our attunement swap and expands the attunement bonus to include our 10/15 (20/25 too ?) point trait buffs. Obviously the idea needs some fine tuning.

I just can’t get on board that their is no damage on ele because it is. The issue here is survivability to apply that damage in a PvP setting. Warriors have easy survivability options to go with their sustain.

Lets give ele warrior base stats make a build then ask yourself seriously do you think you would have damage problems.

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/elementalist/?1.0|8.5n.h2.8.5n.0.d13.0.d14|0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0|1g.71m.1g.71m.1n.71m.1g.71m.1n.71m.1g.71m|2t.d1d.2v.d14.3v.d17.2v.d1d.2t.0.2v.d13|p00.f0.k00.0.a5|6f.1|1n.1u.1v.1s.28|e

Power 2311 (no might stacks) 2611(easy 10 stacks of might)
35% chance to crit (no fury) 55% crit chance with fury (via zephyr’s boon)
83 critical damage
Heavy class modified Armor = 3066 (3186 while attuned to earth)
Heavy class modified Health = 19182

With all the time 15% damage modifier
25% as long as they are burning (why we take burning precision here)
35% when you attune to fire. All extremely easy and likely things to happen.

So is the problem really damage? I in all honestly don’t see damage as a problem at all. This would probably be THE dps build eles would run in PvP with possibly changes to take fresh air. We didn’t even take a DPS focused rune set like Ogre, Scholar+divinity, Divinity, Hoelbrak, Eagle.

Could you then see yourself playing this and reasonably asking for a damage buff? So is damage really the problem for ele? Or is it really survivability/defenses?

What I see there is a ele that would blow through pretty much every class in the game and struggle with possibly no class.

Armed with ether renewal that high amount of HP, condi cleanse on my weapon, stability on earth or earth’s embrace. I am sure if we had stats like that in our builds we run now we would expect QQ and nerfs coming our way.

oZii.2864:

MarzAttakz.9608:

Putting it that way oZii does make sense, regarding our auto-attacks which we never really use outside of perhaps lightning whip, I’d like to see some attack chains added to them and the damage upped a little (within reason of course).

Personally I’d like a reason to stay in an attunement slightly longer, instead of spamming 2-5 because they’re the only skills with decent damage and then switching.

Looking at our class mechanics at 20 point investment, defensively Elemental Attunement is our go to (generally speaking) and Lingering Elements is a bonus.

What if Lingering Elements became a class mechanic with 15 Arcana becoming Persistent Elements which extends Lingering Elements duration to the same duration as our attunement swap and expands the attunement bonus to include our 10/15 (20/25 too ?) point trait buffs. Obviously the idea needs some fine tuning.

I just can’t get on board that their is no damage on ele because it is. The issue here is survivability to apply that damage in a PvP setting. Warriors have easy survivability options to go with their sustain.

Lets give ele warrior base stats make a build then ask yourself seriously do you think you would have damage problems.

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/elementalist/?1.0|8.5n.h2.8.5n.0.d13.0.d14|0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0|1g.71m.1g.71m.1n.71m.1g.71m.1n.71m.1g.71m|2t.d1d.2v.d14.3v.d17.2v.d1d.2t.0.2v.d13|p00.f0.k00.0.a5|6f.1|1n.1u.1v.1s.28|e

Power 2311 (no might stacks) 2611(easy 10 stacks of might)
35% chance to crit (no fury) 55% crit chance with fury (via zephyr’s boon)
83 critical damage
Heavy class modified Armor = 3066 (3186 while attuned to earth)
Heavy class modified Health = 19182

With a all the time 15% damage modifier
25% as long as they are burning (why we take burning precision here)
35% when you attune to fire. All extremely easy and likely things to happen.

So is the problem really damage? I in all honestly don’t see damage as a problem at all. This would probably be THE dps build eles would run in PvP with possibly changes to take fresh air. We didn’t even take a DPS focused rune set like Ogre, Scholar+divinity, Divinity, Hoelbrak, Eagle.

Could you then see yourself playing this and reasonably asking for a damage buff? So is damage really the problem for ele? Or is it really survivability/defenses?

What I see there is a ele that would blow through pretty much every class in the game and struggle with possibly no class.

Armed with ether renewal that high amount of HP, condi cleanse on my weapon, stability on earth or earth’s embrace. I am sure if we had stats like that in our builds we run now we would expect QQ and nerfs coming our way.

I just cried a little inside! Yes I agree survivability/defense is the problem for sure. I’m trying to think of a solution that doesn’t involve major development work.

Looking at it defensively the simplest solution would be changing a few variables and move us up into the medium base hp bracket (not armour) equal to Mesmers.

Looking at it offensively, improve our time to kill in various ways, faster kill = less time required to survive.

ThiBash.5634:

KazNaka.4718:

The elementalist has a different form of defense than the warrior, who also has plenty of defenses. The warrior has access to shield/sword blocks, ww atk dodges (high mobility), and bursting to regain endurance. If anything, the elementalist’s active defenses requires more skill to use than the warrior’s form of defenses. Yet, skillful play is not rewarded with any DPS.

No, it is rewarded with more utility and partywide support at the same level of dps.

Go duo toe-to-toe with a warrior and tell me we have the same level of DPS with the same level of defenses (dagger/focus).

oZii.2864:

Let us see where we could get good risk vs reward for better damage.

We will use the ever popular D/D

Fire Grab hits for not on fire damage all the time.

Lighting whip auto attack is one of the best in the game so no change there.

RTL damage boost?

Does Burning speed really need need a damage boost?

Ring of fire really need a damage boost?

Drake breath really need a damage boost?

Cone of cold?

The only skills I see to make the case for more damage on D/D is earth auto attack, maybe vapor blade but it has vulnerability on it and 1 auto can put 2 stacks on.

Lightning touch could definitely use some love but weakness is really strong and should be utilized if possible.

So Fire Grab remove burning stipulation, buff earth auto, lightning touch and dragon claw. Everything else does pretty good damage imo.

We use Scepter which is burst damage, contrary to what many people think arc lighting can put good pressure on someone and it is a auto attack. Lightning strike hits pretty good damage on short CD with is instant with range.

So my only issues on scepter are – fire auto attack, landing dragon tooth, water 2, dust devil could use increase cast time but thats not a spell used for damage.

So I can see the issues but I don’t think ele damage is really that bad when you look at your hard hitters, and the fact that you most don’t have to look for filler from auto attacks.

Lightning whip one of the best auto-attack in the game? Are you kidding me? The damage you get out of lightning whip doesn’t compare at all with the damage of a warrior’s axe or greatsword.

oZii.2864:

KazNaka.4718:

I completely agree with the OP. At melee range our damage sucks. Why does it have to be only one class—the warrior—who excels at melee range? I thought the premise of this game was: there’s no healer, no tank, no dps, and you can play any class you want. So shouldn’t it be balanced around that instead of giving one class all the melee dps power?

ThiBash.5634:

What he wants is a warrior that looks like an elementalist. The ele has active defenses rather than higher stats. If he likes that playstyle then he must accept the lower base stats that come with them. You can shake as much as you like, but the comparison made in the post is just one of those ‘look how awesome the warrior is and you are not’ posts that I’m done shaking my head at. You want warrior effectiveness? Then go play a warrior and stop trying to tell us we’re doing everything wrong here.

The elementalist has a different form of defense than the warrior, who also has plenty of defenses. The warrior has access to shield/sword blocks, ww atk dodges (high mobility), and bursting to regain endurance. If anything, the elementalist’s active defenses requires more skill to use than the warrior’s form of defenses. Yet, skillful play is not rewarded with any DPS.

You have to be a new warrior.

Warrior has always been able to good great damage, and it actually did more damage before. The reason warrior is so good now is Heaing Signet that is the only reason.

Comparisons to warriors is silly vs elementalist because the healing signet is what allows warriors to now face tank damage to land their big hits. They always had the big hits though.

That’s why I find these conversation silly because people that bring up warriors have to be people that rolled one recently or never played it much before healing signet. Prior to the healing signet buff Warriors had much easier access to their damage modifiers so they did more damage before. Now they lost some of that damage but got sustain. So these warrior comparisons should be more about their defensive abilities being better than a ele not about damage. If I could face tank and had short cooldowns on hard hitting attacks my ele would be a warrior.

You are waay off-base. I am not a new warrior. I have played warrior since launch. In fact, I have all 8 professions maxed to lv80 with zerker gear, sholar’s runes, and dual bloodlust sigils. I have run Arah more times than I can even begin to count. I have solo’ed Lupicus with a warrior, thief, guardian, elementalist, ranger, and Mesmer. This is where I’m drawing my comparisons from: the PvE dungeon aspect.

It has nothing to do with healing signet. Healing signet alone will not let a warrior “face-tank” anything. You have to dodge, ww atk, burst, block, etc. My question is: Why should only warrior has “the big hits”? Why is there a certain favoritism towards the warrior to land the big melee hits? Any other classes out there takes just as much risk being melee, regardless of their different defense mechanisms. Why are they not on par with the warrior’s DPS output??

KazNaka.4718:

Lightning whip one of the best auto-attack in the game? Are you kidding me? The damage you get out of lightning whip doesn’t compare at all with the damage of a warrior’s axe or greatsword.

No I’m not kidding I said one of the best. Yes lightning whip is one of the best auto – attacks in the game. The skill coefficient is the same as the first 2 swings of greatsword of .7 with greatswords 3rd strike being .9 but still activates slower than lightning whip and still has shorter range than lightning whip. Axe’s first strike is the same coefficient as lightning whip with the 1.5 seconds activation for the last 2 hits the last hits of axe are 1.4 x2 and 1.5 for the final hit.

All the damage from axe auto attack was backloaded IT use to be great now it is hard to get the last 2 hits on anyone moving that has a pulse. Before you could pressure with axe auto attack because the damage was front loaded so you didn’t want to get hit by auto attack or eviscerate double edge sword that can force dodges. You put out better dps before with axe by only using the auto attack than taking the time to eviscerate. Which is why many warriors back then said there was no reason to spend adreanline (when berserkers power and heigntened focus where adept traits).

KazNaka.4718:

oZii.2864:

KazNaka.4718:

I completely agree with the OP. At melee range our damage sucks. Why does it have to be only one class—the warrior—who excels at melee range? I thought the premise of this game was: there’s no healer, no tank, no dps, and you can play any class you want. So shouldn’t it be balanced around that instead of giving one class all the melee dps power?

ThiBash.5634:

What he wants is a warrior that looks like an elementalist. The ele has active defenses rather than higher stats. If he likes that playstyle then he must accept the lower base stats that come with them. You can shake as much as you like, but the comparison made in the post is just one of those ‘look how awesome the warrior is and you are not’ posts that I’m done shaking my head at. You want warrior effectiveness? Then go play a warrior and stop trying to tell us we’re doing everything wrong here.

The elementalist has a different form of defense than the warrior, who also has plenty of defenses. The warrior has access to shield/sword blocks, ww atk dodges (high mobility), and bursting to regain endurance. If anything, the elementalist’s active defenses requires more skill to use than the warrior’s form of defenses. Yet, skillful play is not rewarded with any DPS.

You have to be a new warrior.

Warrior has always been able to good great damage, and it actually did more damage before. The reason warrior is so good now is Heaing Signet that is the only reason.

Comparisons to warriors is silly vs elementalist because the healing signet is what allows warriors to now face tank damage to land their big hits. They always had the big hits though.

That’s why I find these conversation silly because people that bring up warriors have to be people that rolled one recently or never played it much before healing signet. Prior to the healing signet buff Warriors had much easier access to their damage modifiers so they did more damage before. Now they lost some of that damage but got sustain. So these warrior comparisons should be more about their defensive abilities being better than a ele not about damage. If I could face tank and had short cooldowns on hard hitting attacks my ele would be a warrior.

You are waay off-base. I am not a new warrior. I have played warrior since launch. In fact, I have all 8 professions maxed to lv80 with zerker gear, sholar’s runes, and dual bloodlust sigils. I have run Arah more times than I can even begin to count. I have solo’ed Lupicus with a warrior, thief, guardian, elementalist, ranger, and Mesmer. This is where I’m drawing my comparisons from: the PvE dungeon aspect.

It has nothing to do with healing signet. Healing signet alone will not let a warrior “face-tank” anything. You have to dodge, ww atk, burst, block, etc. My question is: Why should only warrior has “the big hits”? Why is there a certain favoritism towards the warrior to land the big melee hits? Any other classes out there takes just as much risk being melee, regardless of their different defense mechanisms. Why are they not on par with the warrior’s DPS output??

My applogies this is a PvP/WvW focused thread it has been stated by others that Elementalist out dps warriors in PvE. The OP isn’t concerned with PvE though so I am not speaking on PvE aspects as I don’t play PvE much. This is strickly WvW/PvP damage discussion my apologies if I came off wrong.

From my understanding Ele is top dps class in the game for PvE just from my little bit of reading on the subject with LH or FGS setups.

KazNaka.4718:

Lightning whip one of the best auto-attack in the game? Are you kidding me? The damage you get out of lightning whip doesn’t compare at all with the damage of a warrior’s axe or greatsword.

uh yeah it does. greatsword auto attack sucks
axe auto does more damage (1.39 vs 1.22), but has way less range, so they’re pretty even. lightning whip’s damage is much easier to actually apply. dat range:

Everyone knows lightning whip is far greater damage than Warrior auto attack plus its cleave and has massive range. This thread is a joke as well…ele has some of the best damage in the entire game.

KazNaka.4718

Go duo toe-to-toe with a warrior and tell me we have the same level of DPS with the same level of defenses (dagger/focus).

Haven’t used dagger/focus in quite a while, mainly because it has more defense than I feel I need. It’s more aimed against ranged opponents too. However, in sPvP I usually go toe to toe with them on my staff ele and I end up winning or tieing 75% of my encounters. The main trick is getting through their healing signet, which I’ll admit is tough. However, they have to close in to deal their damage which opens them up to aoes. If they dodge those, they have to stop attacking. If they range only, their dps will be too low. So it makes for some interesting (and difficult) fights. But it can be done.

I hit about 4500 4500 8500 with lightning hammers in PvE, in addition to the blind and blast finishers every third hit is. Of course that’s after stacking 25 might, but that’s exactly what my build is meant to do.

Eles don’t do very well without mightstacking first, but we mightstack better than anything else. My damage contribution to a dungeon is usually about 11,000 damage per second when you add my 5000 ish dps to the 4x 1500 dps I buff other players for.

If you’re in a situation where might stacks can be easily removed or stolen however, you’ll be in for a bad time. Basically, PvP content.

If you’re in for that, try a attunement dodge+weapon conjuration build – the kind that adds extra shots per conjured weapon. Then use element switching to gain additional advantages, like heals from water and blind on air dodge. And tell your party members not to pick up your conjured weapon, or your DPS goes to hell again.

Or, the fresh air build. Fresh air doesn’t hit HARD, mind, but it hits quite often with the extra lightning bolts and whatnot. Not that it can win a warrior, but yeah…

Taldren.7523:

CDUB.1645

Roaming build – I would swap Air IX with X, air skills will recharge on crit so taking that additional reduction is not very helpful, as you have 50 CC and 80CD. For Water I would swap out VI with III….get more use out of your cantrips.

The attunement will recharge on crit, not the abilities. My reasoning for Air IX is for the faster knockdown to land dragon tooth and faster blinds so I can try and save my dodges. As for Water III … I normally don’t see a fight where I would be able to use Armor of Earth more than once a fight with or without it, so it would all come down to Lightning Flash. Before the stun break nerf to Lighting Flash, it would have been a no brainer … now … I am not so sure.

CDUB.1645

Group/Staff Build – Look at swapping Air IX with XI. I would look at swapping FGS with Tornado, because MS + Tornado is awesome. Also, try swapping out Frost Bow with maybe Arcane Shield or Mistform. Arcane shield is very useful to get some of you long casting skills (MS) off and gives you a couple secs when you are waiting for that heal to come off cooldown. If you run this in WvW I would suggest changing food for staff and/or looking at secondary trinkets,rings, etc etc……I would increase vitality,toughness, and healing.

In most of the fights I see in Tier1, I don’t see many opportunities to use Tornado and survive.
What food would you suggest?
I am working on a secondary Celestial trinket set for when I go staff, but its going to take a while as I have so many other characters to gear up. Just finished my Mesmer and working on my necro trinkets now. Playing my Mesmer feels like cheating compared to Ele at equal gear levels.

@ Taldren

Sorry, you are correct about Air Trait XII. However, I personally would rather have the 10% damage from Air X. But like you mention, if you would rather reduce recharge to assist with that DT and BF thats your call. In WvW when I roam around I usually run into more 1vX than I do with 1v1s…this is where I would rather take Air X and run D/D. Water VI – I guess would be ok if you can stay above 90 threshold….otherwise that 10% damage is useless if you fall below 90%.

Staff – Cast MS and toward the very end of spell cast, use Tornado you can see your damage increase (double and triple at times). In zerg fights, you may not be able to get this off as nicely as when you may be defending a camp or tower. This is one scenario where you could use Arcane Shield to get off a MS, followed by Tornado. Very good combo to use if enemy zerg coming through choke points.

In WvW I would think about taking or keeping some -% condition duration food on your Ele.
I would look at raising Toughness and possibly Vitality…..Not sure if you want to do it via food/utility but through a couple trinket/accessory change for those.

If you are able to evade/avoid players and your position is good while using staff….then ignore me about Vital/Toughness.

KazNaka.4718:

My question is: Why should only warrior has “the big hits”? Why is there a certain favoritism towards the warrior to land the big melee hits? Any other classes out there takes just as much risk being melee, regardless of their different defense mechanisms. Why are they not on par with the warrior’s DPS output??

20k churning earths and fire grabs not good enough for you? :/

20k? weak. I break 300k without even trying

reikken.4961:

20k? weak. I break 300k without even trying

get good, ya nub!

Kyskythyn.6471:

KazNaka.4718:

My question is: Why should only warrior has “the big hits”? Why is there a certain favoritism towards the warrior to land the big melee hits? Any other classes out there takes just as much risk being melee, regardless of their different defense mechanisms. Why are they not on par with the warrior’s DPS output??

20k churning earths and fire grabs not good enough for you? :/

and what’s the cd on that? All the warrior has to do is keep auto-attacking to catch up and get ahead in DPS.

elementalist, at the current state, is too gimmicky in order to achieve the same level of DPS that a warrior can dish out. And you can forget that DPS if you try to be a little more survivable.

KazNaka.4718:

Kyskythyn.6471:

KazNaka.4718:

My question is: Why should only warrior has “the big hits”? Why is there a certain favoritism towards the warrior to land the big melee hits? Any other classes out there takes just as much risk being melee, regardless of their different defense mechanisms. Why are they not on par with the warrior’s DPS output??

20k churning earths and fire grabs not good enough for you? :/

and what’s the cd on that? All the warrior has to do is keep auto-attacking to catch up and get ahead in DPS.

elementalist, at the current state, is too gimmicky in order to achieve the same level of DPS that a warrior can dish out. And you can forget that DPS if you try to be a little more survivable.

Is the elementalist to gimmicky or is the warrior to straight forward and easy maybe even mindless.

The elementalist is engaging it’s not gimmicky if you have to think setting up combo’s and combo fields something the game was based on in the first place. Pressing auto attack to dps is boring straight foward spreadsheet gameplay.

Why even play the game at all if you want it to be laid out for you without even thinking.

Also the warrior is not king of dps regardless of how easy it is for the warrior to dps that doesn’t make it top notch. I don’t know where you get this from. Go on GW2guru and check the thread on dps specs for PvE and warrior is not top ranking the math is there to back it up also.

The difference in dps for max dps builds for all the classes isn’t even that far off from each other you paint the picture that Warrior is by far and away #1 when it is not. Also what you are asking for is homogenization which we don’t need.

If every class did every aspect just as good as each other what would be the point? If a ele had it easy mode for dps you wouldn’t even need water, or earth attunement just give eles fire attunement and air for dps. Give ele weapon swaps and press 3 buttons to win. That is SO boring.

Instead what you have is classes are able to do everything reasonably but some excel at certain things.

If we are being specific about dps Ele isn’t melee even using daggers if you aren’t abusing Ele’s range advantage because it definitely has one then you should. It isn’t even very hard and doesn’t require much thought to abuse Eles range on daggers.

oZii.2864:

KazNaka.4718:

Kyskythyn.6471:

KazNaka.4718:

My question is: Why should only warrior has “the big hits”? Why is there a certain favoritism towards the warrior to land the big melee hits? Any other classes out there takes just as much risk being melee, regardless of their different defense mechanisms. Why are they not on par with the warrior’s DPS output??

20k churning earths and fire grabs not good enough for you? :/

and what’s the cd on that? All the warrior has to do is keep auto-attacking to catch up and get ahead in DPS.

elementalist, at the current state, is too gimmicky in order to achieve the same level of DPS that a warrior can dish out. And you can forget that DPS if you try to be a little more survivable.

Is the elementalist to gimmicky or is the warrior to straight forward and easy maybe even mindless.

The elementalist is engaging it’s not gimmicky if you have to think setting up combo’s and combo fields something the game was based on in the first place. Pressing auto attack to dps is boring straight foward spreadsheet gameplay.

Why even play the game at all if you want it to be laid out for you without even thinking.

Also the warrior is not king of dps regardless of how easy it is for the warrior to dps that doesn’t make it top notch. I don’t know where you get this from. Go on GW2guru and check the thread on dps specs for PvE and warrior is not top ranking the math is there to back it up also.

The difference in dps for max dps builds for all the classes isn’t even that far off from each other you paint the picture that Warrior is by far and away #1 when it is not. Also what you are asking for is homogenization which we don’t need.

If every class did every aspect just as good as each other what would be the point? If a ele had it easy mode for dps you wouldn’t even need water, or earth attunement just give eles fire attunement and air for dps. Give ele weapon swaps and press 3 buttons to win. That is SO boring.

Instead what you have is classes are able to do everything reasonably but some excel at certain things.

If we are being specific about dps Ele isn’t melee even using daggers if you aren’t abusing Ele’s range advantage because it definitely has one then you should. It isn’t even very hard and doesn’t require much thought to abuse Eles range on daggers.

Believe me, I get what you’re saying…but I don’t think you get what I’m saying. Yes, the elementalist has a more active playstyle. Yes, it has a higher skill ceiling than the warrior. However, it needs to be rewarded with more damage than we are getting right now. I’ll show you a video proof of what I’m talking about in just a sec.

it has been roughly eight thousand secs
where is video?

KazNaka.4718

However, it needs to be rewarded with more damage than we are getting right now.

It’s rewarded with more base utility instead of damage. Why’s that so bad?

ok here are two videos: a warrior and an elementalist. Both are fully berserker, use scholar’s runes, and have 25 stacks of bloodlust with undead potions and same food buff.

Warrior: 30/25/0/0/15
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrgntyUoKYw

Elementalist: 0/30/10/10/20
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-vZCu4nWz8

It takes the warrior 7 minutes. Very easy play style: high armor and high HP. You can afford a mistake here and there. Auto attack your way to high DPS.

On the other hand, the elementalist has to play more carefully. A single mistake will most likely mean downed/defeated. Sure, they have utilities such as projectile negation and invulnerability, but it takes the ele 12-13 minutes to be able to survive against the same boss and achieve the same level of DPS.

p.s. yes, I failed the ele solo at the end because fraps decided to crash and burn at the end. I can’t do anything against lag, but it was close enough for a rough comparison.

a few questions: why weren’t you using staff, lightning hammer, or frost bow? and why do you have 20 points in arcana?
also, you took an elite you never used on ele, and took an elite you used constantly on warrior

reikken.4961:

a few questions: why weren’t you using staff, lightning hammer, or frost bow? and why do you have 20 points in arcana?
also, you took an elite you never used on ele, and took an elite you used constantly on warrior

Actually, I’m going to change my build to 25/30/0/10/5. As for staff, I don’t think it has enough defensive skills to survive a solo lupicus. Frost bow might be a good idea: pop bow 4 and drop. I don’t know about LH…I’d need a lot of dodges/mobility/survivability. Guess I should try using FGS in phase 3. Unlike warrior, I’d have to give up certain survivability utilities to get conjure weapons.

I thought this thread was more about WvW and SPvP, but it looks as if PvE has taken over?

Mbelch.9028:

I thought this thread was more about WvW and SPvP, but it looks as if PvE has taken over?

Oh, so as long as the pvp side of things are fine, the pve can be ignored? If ANet were to balance classes in pvp separate from pve, I wouldn’t be posting here. However, they tend to apply the changes to both sides, and I felt there was a balance issue on the pve aspects of the elementalist as well.

Personally, I hate everything about GW2 PvE. So when conversations turn to PvE, I stop reading or I don’t comment. I would comment here if this weren’t involving PvE.

I don’t mind if you do talk about it.. I just want to know from the OP.