Guild Wars 2

I main an ele, have 100% world complete and am working towards my legendary. But I don’t get it, why all the complaining, is there a dps meter im not seeing? Are you dying a lot? I for one NEVER die. I am an ele how can i die? I never get kicked from groups, and seem to do fine both pvp and pve. So what is the big deal? Mainly staff eles i see the most complaining about, i used to be staff and never found anything wrong with it (I’m s/d now since i like the spells better, more fast paced). So can somebody please explain to me how we are “underpowered”?

We tend to get hard-countered by the most popular classes and builds. Thus it seems that we’re underpowered, when in truth we’re just easily countered. This is especially true when running staff.

shox.3971:

I main an ele, have 100% world complete and am working towards my legendary. But I don’t get it, why all the complaining, is there a dps meter im not seeing? Are you dying a lot? I for one NEVER die. I am an ele how can i die? I never get kicked from groups, and seem to do fine both pvp and pve. So what is the big deal? Mainly staff eles i see the most complaining about, i used to be staff and never found anything wrong with it (I’m s/d now since i like the spells better, more fast paced). So can somebody please explain to me how we are “underpowered”?

Not trying to rude, but the simple fact that you listed world completion and not getting kicked out of PvE groups as an accomplishment means you aren’t a serious WvW or sPvP player. Most of the complaints about the class are generated from those two areas, not from playing against scripted AI.

scripted AI+mob outrageous stats >>>>> WWW players btw.
Or should i link some WWW videos that led to nerfs?

Is there any player that can kill you no matter of how you play?
Well there are bosses that can kill you disregarding what you do (can prove that).

Also yes there are DPS check and elementalist fail those miserably!!!
Its clear OP is not an experienced dungeon player at least.

It depends on your armour,trinkets,trait,sigils,style,wvw or pve, group number and stacks.

There are just too many factors.

For solo, DnD ele always wins

For PvE, DnD ele can tank 5 mobs no problem

For small grp, dnd ele are supreme.

For zerg, dnd is , well not very zerg friendly.

So yeah, no one is complaining. But we could use some RTL loving

Agree somewhat with OP.

Ele is perfect? No, and nobody said that.
Needs improvement to build diversity (i’d like so much to get those 60 trait points out of Arcana/water and do not feel useless), skill balance and a viable DPS spec? Yes.

But kitten it, this profession community cry SO much.

WvW: Staff Ele is mandatory (i’ll stress it again. you NEED it and you can’t replace it.) for decent groups.
Spvp: afaik D/D bunker is still there (and some bursty/cond builds are viable after patch. OP? Strongest build? no. but viable) and still rolled perfectly fine.
PvE: you know, not everybody plays (for choice or w/e) a full kitten serker speed team. And in a “normal” DG team Ele holds his ground just fine. Not in terms of DPS, granted, but reality check: it’s the PvE that is broken cause exploitable by raw DPS. (and even then, there are viable speed team builds for ele revolving on LH).

Overall, i too really don’t get the “Profession is doomed” cry.
Ok, RTL is crappy now.
DPS is not the strong point.
And most of all, trait distribution is nearly locked.

But come on, some guys are getting ridicolous.
Well, keep crying, my Ele keeps rolling.

I think over the past months, people have explained/discussed repeatedly in details the reasons they are complaining (i.e., mainly unnecessary mobility and cantrip nerf). If you know people are complaining, you probably have seen these threads. Why not have more patience and read into them more? unless you think you are more skilled than these WvWvW, pvp players. Then, it is better to post a guide/videos, and show the forumers how to play eles properly in WvWvW and PvP. By the way, most of the recent complaints come from D/D rather than staff, which most people already accept it as a support weapon only.

Illusion.1807:

Why not have more patience and read into them more?

I did. I understand the reasons, and sometimes i agree. I don’t think to be a better player.

The only thing i’m tired of is the attitude.

AndrewSX.3794:

Illusion.1807:

Why not have more patience and read into them more?

I did. I understand the reasons, and sometimes i agree. I don’t think to be a better player.

The only thing i’m tired of is the attitude.

This is an interesting topic about complaining. I think it is common misconception to think complaining is not adapting. Complaining exists because it has some adaptive functions. If people always passively accept their environment as the way it is, then society will not progress like today. Also, don’t forget complaining about other’s complaining is still complaining. Yes, many complaining has no consequences and it is better to do something useful. But in many cases, complaining have consequences. Why did eles get nerfed? It is because other people complained. Then, why do you want to justify decision based on others’ complaining while ignore eles’ complaining?

I also agree sometimes people may overcomplain. But this is like variety among people, some complain, some not. It is very important to have this variety to keep evolution going.

Staff ele works yes…

i’ll quote a dev:

“Is it fun?”

Same for conjured hammer pve ele….5 skills on a hammer….don t think is what ELEMENTALIST players wanted when choosed their profession.

Illusion.1807:

Also, don’t forget complaining about other’s complaining is still complaining.

Complainingception

It is a very subjective matter Shox. When some players believe the Ele is underpowered in certain situations others disagree because they are great at those areas. The same goes to those that constantly use the term viable in certain popular builds and not in other less used builds. I agree with you the Ele excels in many areas. It could be my playstyle or build or both but I never seen my Ele lacking in anything in pve and pvp. Of course I will welcome more enhancements since it will make my burst Ele even more powerful than what already is just like it did with the recent patches.

People complain because they truly do like the class and want to play it, but for whatever reason any time we have a fighting chance we get nerfed when three other classes can do the same thing. Somehow it’s OP when we do it but not for them.

You used to always hear about what a complex class we were, and if played well and if all abilities were utilized then you could really pull off some amazing stuff. Well people DID learn the class, DID play well, and the the other 2 button classes got their panties in a twist, so we got nerfed while other classes kept their insane burst and survivability. But woe to the ele that steps up and says anything about these other classes. They will be struck down and told L2P even though those very classes couldn’t do the same for themselves back during our hey day.

Like others said, if you’re so confused about why eles complain, read the threads.

Careful LordByron, if you start with that again anet will definatley see regardless of video date/patch and nerf us some more!

LordByron.8369:

Staff ele works yes…

i’ll quote a dev:

“Is it fun?”

Same for conjured hammer pve ele….5 skills on a hammer….don t think is what ELEMENTALIST players wanted when choosed their profession.

I started leveling my Elementalist as a D/D, around level 20 switched to S/D. Hit world via world at lvl 50 and switched to Staff. I have been staff ever since.

Staff for me is more fun then any of the other weapon sets.

Brand loyality

MMO

Class fanboys vs Class fanboys why almost all threads complaining about 1 class usually have a class hero protector that jumps in to protect his “Main” that tells you to go back to x forums. The threads are hard to even get a read on because some rabid reply throws the whole thread out of wack and you can’t have a good, clean, honest discussion about most topics. Then it gets derailed if someone takes the bait and thread is dismissed as some whining thread.

Thief complains about retaliation damage since his rapid attacks from dagger can kill himself.

Guardian complains about stealth

Mesmer complains about thief cloak and dagger off clones

Ranger complains mesmer phantasms have better AI than Ranger pets.

Necro complains Minions have even worse AI.

Random player jumps in says L2P you’re overpowered (the whole class not a build which is always lol) I play a warrior you guys are all broken and need to be nerfed. Warrior doesn’t have all these get out of jail cards lulz, warrior is good ol fashioned in your face damage. Im even Phoenix rank in hotjoins on my Warrior. You all just suck.

Insert wall of text (nobody reads it)

topic derailed until someone gives up, it’s closed, or another hot topic thread pops up.

This goes on in almost all the forums.

Lrn2play I’m rabbit rank mesmer.

So Elementalists, does this mean if I create one as a serious alt to my engineer I will still be treated the same, or better?

Rayean.8726:

So Elementalists, does this mean if I create one as a serious alt to my engineer I will still be treated the same, or better?

You’ll be treated the same as everyone that isn’t playing a Warrior/Mesmer.

I think Engie has it a little better then Ele`, but it`s hit & miss.

For PvE, ele has a serious flaw in that it’s neither a warrior nor a guardian.

It’s odd really, because the elitist mindset of the guardian/warrior community on these forums has grown far beyond any actual grounding in the reality of the game. The zerker war/grd/mes team composition for farming dungeons is only optimal if your teamplay is also optimal. But honestly, optimal teamplay is quite rare in reality (with the exception of perhaps CoF P1 simply because of how much it’s run).

I main a guardian but recently I’ve been levelling my ele (currently level 53) by pugging AC. And honestly, the versatility of the ele has made the whole experience so much more enjoyable than it would’ve been on my guardian, because when the zerker warrior is downed for the 10th time it doesn’t affect me as much. I can Lightning Flash past traps, demolish burrows with Ice Storm, and pump out ~15 stacks of might to the party without breaking a sweat.

But that kitten zerker warrior, who spent half the fights on the floor, will still come on the forums and proclaim superiority to all other specs. My advice is to smile sadly and jump back in game with the most exciting, dynamic profession in GW2!

process execution.8014:

It’s odd really, because the elitist mindset of the guardian/warrior community on these forums has grown far beyond any actual grounding in the reality of the game. The zerker war/grd/mes team composition for farming dungeons is only optimal if your teamplay is also optimal. But honestly, optimal teamplay is quite rare in reality (with the exception of perhaps CoF P1 simply because of how much it’s run).

Not really….

If you add a guardian you can trivialize to cof1 level even fotm 48……. (1 support guard, 1 dps guard 2 dps warriors 1 dps mesmer).

It just need 1 good guardian and all other players can be suboptimal.

Would be really good if was something about optimal teamplay, but with 2 guards the game is really easy mode.

Add a third and most difficult dungeons become easier of open pve.

LordByron.8369:

It just need 1 good guardian and all other players can be suboptimal.

Well you could be right there; as I mentioned I do main a guardian! I guess it’s just the dirt-napping zerker warriors that tick me off…

LordByron.8369:

scripted AI+mob outrageous stats >>>>> WWW players btw.
Or should i link some WWW videos that led to nerfs?

Is there any player that can kill you no matter of how you play?
Well there are bosses that can kill you disregarding what you do (can prove that).

Also yes there are DPS check and elementalist fail those miserably!!!
Its clear OP is not an experienced dungeon player at least.

By your statement, you mean scripted AI is smarter than WvW players? Are you for real? WvW players has brain while scripted AI has no brain….I can build my Eles however, into whatever I want and I still doing well in PvE and WvW. First Mobs is stupid, second Zerg FTW. Now back to PvP, there are only a few builds that are viable to play. Most of complain cone from PvP and yes, in PvP, we are mediocre at everything at best. Just look at Warrior sample: in PvE and WvW, they are God. In PvP, they are just bad. One class is good at this area does not mean the class will be good at other area. Us community don’t care what they do in PvE or WvW, but in PvP we care.

Stealth.9324:

scripted AI+mob outrageous stats >>>>> WWW players btw.

By your statement, you mean scripted AI is smarter than WvW players?

No i didn t write that….read better please.

Are you for real? WvW players has brain while scripted AI has no brain….I can build my Eles however, into whatever I want and I still doing well in PvE

And this shows really a superficial view of games……
I bet you can kill lvl 52 jade maw because it lacks AI……

Most difficult games in history are from ’70-80 and they had no AI at all
Qwop has no AI tell me its easy.

I really hate how pvp elitist just look down at everything not being pvp….and this comes from a fighting game tournaments player for more than 10 years…..

Fortunately any fighting game player will never say AI is easy because has no brain.
AI cannot be beaten in a VG by definition if there isn t something programmed to let you win.

P.S: and that without even considering WWW doesn t require almost any skill except for few players/commanders And its a different sort of skill (most tactic and stuff)

P.P.S. what you say about PvP balance is once again wrong….
When ele was OP in PvP it was really BAD in pve.
ANy pvp build would be uberbad in PvE….can t say vice versa…..but that just prove that are 2 different game modes that should be split asap.

LordByron.8369:

Stealth.9324:

scripted AI+mob outrageous stats >>>>> WWW players btw.

By your statement, you mean scripted AI is smarter than WvW players?

No i didn t write that….read better please.

Are you for real? WvW players has brain while scripted AI has no brain….I can build my Eles however, into whatever I want and I still doing well in PvE

And this shows really a superficial view of games……
I bet you can kill lvl 52 jade maw because it lacks AI……

Most difficult games in history are from ’70-80 and they had no AI at all
Qwop has no AI tell me its easy.

I really hate how pvp elitist just look down at everything not being pvp….and this comes from a fighting game tournament players for more than 10 years…..

>>>>. How can I understand the meaning when you use this symbol, large side on AI and small side on WvW players? Please elaborate the meaning of your statement.

Kill 52 Jade Maw? Is that even hard to begin with? All it does is repeat the same pattern over and over again? Get rid of all the permanent reflecting shield on those Colosus Golem (because I play range), then it is a piece of cake. Talking about Dus, yes AI did solo Spider Queen,I did solo AC boss p1, yes I did solo TA bosses. Once you know the trick, they are so easy to kill. Now back to WvW players, save for some simple mind people, they are not easy to deal with.

I don’t look down on PvE nor WvW just because I am a PvPers. But saying PvE is more challenge than WvW or PvP is simply not right.

spvp go intire matches without getting killed, I can still run away from fights and can still get kills easy.

WvW bursting down warriors aoe with S/D fire burst easy.

Arah dungeon: being the last man standing destroying the mobs that killed my party while doing the most damage out of all of ’m. (there was a warrior, guardian and mesmer).

Only moment I notice game imbalance is when 2+ thieves ambush me in wvw. Besides that I’m fine with almost anything.

@stealth
because there was written
“scripted AI+mobs outrageous stats”

You didn t read mobs outrageous stats it seems.

And you just proved you don t know anything about PvE.

You can t kill lvl 52 jade maw.
It just oneshot you for 1570% (if i remember correctly) your HP as you approach the area, and once you are ressed it reapply agony to oneshot you again.

it was just to say that lacks of AI doesn t mean easy.
PvE is more challenging than WWW for sure if you know how is current WWW.

For pvp its a different thing

PvP players only are uberbad at PvE and vice versa. those game modes doesn t share anything in common.
And that is the reason why PvP builds and professoins are unviable in PvE and vice versa.

No I did not miss the thing you just listed. And I do play PvE, got 3 lv 80s, and most of the title in PvE currently available. My personal FOTM is lv 30 and yes I have all my 80s Chars equipped with all Ascended Item. So yes I do know a thing or two about PvE.

Talk about lv 52 Jade Maw, the problem with it is its design, not the lack of AI. Even if it has absurd stats but if it gives us time to prepare, then it is a piece of cake to kill. It is dangerous because the design it is set is absurd, not because of the stats.

I question you are actually play PvP at all, because like I said, I can build my Eles, even into Full Dps (30/30/0/0/10), wear full Berserker Armor and still has no problem in PvEor WvW. Now the same build, bring it to PvP, I would love to kill even one PvPers with it when alone when they just can 1 shoot you from afar.

Then again, the only thing I agree with you is PvP and PvE are two different aspects of the game and need to be address differently.

Back to the topic, there is no such thing as OP or UP when it comes to PvE or WvW. However, when it comes to PvP, the OP class and UP prof have been distinguished clearly. Hence, complaining.

A lot of time, PvP balance affect too much to PvE and WvW balance. It is Anet way of doing things.

My first char was a necro, I tried all build, lvld 80, map completition and didn’t enjoy that at all. Then, I tried Guardian, it’s super for party, but I wanted a damage dealer more enjoyable than necro, then I made Ele and War.
War is OP, really high damage, but…Ele! OOhhh… Ele… is a really complete character! I do really LOVE it.
So please, believe a person that made other chars too, and still prefer Ele above all!

Stealth.9324:

Talk about lv 52 Jade Maw, the problem with it is its design, not the lack of AI. Even if it has absurd stats but if it gives us time to prepare, then it is a piece of cake to kill. It is dangerous because the design it is set is absurd, not because of the stats.

I ll be more clear:
Its IMPOSSIBLE to kill jade maw at 52… NOBODY on the server can do that.

you should also see how a lava burst from a wizard can oneshot you with 0 telling…..

I question you are actually play PvP at all, because like I said, I can build my Eles, even into Full Dps (30/30/0/0/10), wear full Berserker Armor and still has no problem in PvEor WvW. Now the same build, bring it to PvP, I would love to kill even one PvPers with it when alone when they just can 1 shoot you from afar.

exactly

Now take you bunker build or condition build that are so popular in PvP and try a lvl 48 lava shaman.

You can get past second event due to lack of dps

Can you get it now?
What is good at PvP is bad at PvE and what is good at PvE is bad at PvP.

Back to the topic, there is no such thing as OP or UP when it comes to PvE or WWW

However, when it comes to PvP, the OP class and UP prof have been distinguished clearly. Hence, complaining.

This makes me wanna cry…
How should i reply to this when PvP is the ONLY part of the game that ever had any sort of balance even if not perfect while PvE and WWW are so ridiculously unbalance that dev doesn t even try to do anything?

2 professions monopolizing 90% of the game is balanced yes.
But if you see 2 of the same characters recurring in PvP teams “OMG NERF NERF!!!!!!”

Back in the day, has the thought of soloing Spider Queen, Kholer, or even Lupi, with Mesmer, Thief, Eles, War came across your mind? Please be honest with me on this. Eventually, you see people start doing that as a challenge to themselves. Why? Because they can read their moves as they repeat over and over, 100 times, 1000 times no matter, because AI has no brain, because it does not learn from its mistake, because it is so foreign with the word “Adapt”. What makes people better than Robot? Because we have what they don’t have, Brain and Think. Back to your lv 52 Jade Maw, sure you can tell right now that nobody can kill it but can you be this certain in the future? When people start to have a full pt that consists of every member who has 60 AR? Please tell me which kill you? Direct Dams from Maw or Agony effect? Again, I ask for your honesty.

I do get it that “What is good in PvP does not mean it is good in PVE” and I agree with you if you look back at my post and search for War Example. What you don’t get is PvE is not as Challenge as PvP or WvW when there are actual Human involve, apart from simple mind people.

Do you know why PvP is the only Part of the game that ever had any sort of balance? Simple reason because there are Human involved in the process and there were no such things as OP or UP class to begin with. However, the mess we have nowadays thanks to Anet’s laziness to do balance PvP apart from PvE and WvW. And that is the problem. Like I said, most of the time, the nerf are supposed for PvP only affect PvE and WvW as well, and the answer is just right above this sentence. Also, if other stronger class happen to be better than the class they are playing, do people care? No because it does not affect them in anyway. What PvE players have that PvP players don’t is Fun and Enjoy Moment.

2 profession that monopolise 90% of the game, I willing to bet that you are mention Thief for WvW and Warrior for both. It was balanced at the beginning, then PvP balance come into play that also affect PvE and WvW, and we have the result nowadays.

2 of the same character re recurring in PvP team,Nerf, No, it is subject to what class the team has. Good luck finding any one that call Nerf to WArrior if they meet a 2 Warrior included team.

i ll try again to explain you a really simple concept.

Lets see sports:
100 meters run is not easier than a tennis match.
Weightlifting is not easier than a football match

And so on.

PvP is harder than PvE is a misconception that i thougt was get past years ago but seems in some mmorpgs few players still is not experienced enough to get past those silly prejudices.

I just stop here because your pve examples are totally wrong….you shouldn t talk of things you don t know imho..

Before you stop, please tell me what in my example that you think is wrong? Oh and also, one more thing I agree with you that NO ONE will ever be able to defeat Lv 52 Jade Maw because it it NOT exist.

process execution.8014:

It’s odd really, because the elitist mindset of the guardian/warrior community on these forums has grown far beyond any actual grounding in the reality of the game. The zerker war/grd/mes team composition for farming dungeons is only optimal if your teamplay is also optimal. But honestly, optimal teamplay is quite rare in reality (with the exception of perhaps CoF P1 simply because of how much it’s run).

I main a guardian but recently I’ve been levelling my ele (currently level 53) by pugging AC. And honestly, the versatility of the ele has made the whole experience so much more enjoyable than it would’ve been on my guardian, because when the zerker warrior is downed for the 10th time it doesn’t affect me as much. I can Lightning Flash past traps, demolish burrows with Ice Storm, and pump out ~15 stacks of might to the party without breaking a sweat.

But that kitten zerker warrior, who spent half the fights on the floor, will still come on the forums and proclaim superiority to all other specs. My advice is to smile sadly and jump back in game with the most exciting, dynamic profession in GW2!

Have to agree with you there. I would add the zerker Ele who needs RTL to disengage and heal and who felt that change was a major nerf, never acknowledging the lost dps of his character while disengaged but never failing to lay claim to superior dps. Or the zerger groups whose speed is not based on defeating the content, but by bypassing the content entirely in quick step time, yet claiming it is the dps and skill that, lol, ran by the mobs?

Back on target, I think PinCushion is the clearest, most concise, answer. In PvP, we don’t have the ranged, fast casting, dps dealer we all wished to find. The lovers of the ranged magic user were told we had to become melee dodgers, lol, in light armor. Our ranged dps was a weaker, slower, aoe version insufficient for small party combat. We were told we needed to compensate for our lack of pure dps by providing support and crowd control. This isn’t simply what we expected to find!

Have I acclimated? yes. Do I begrudge those who wish for more? Absolutely not! I am an old D&D kind of guy. Baldur’s Gate kind of caster. My fireballs would wipe towns off the map, friend and foe alike. Now my fireballs are a small aoe auto-attack. Having come from very successfully playing a Loremaster in that other game, I am not terribly unhappy, but I was hoping for the glory days of old.

Stealth.9324:

Before you stop, please tell me what in my example that you think is wrong? Oh and also, one more thing I agree with you that NO ONE will ever be able to defeat Lv 52 Jade Maw because it it NOT exist.

The right answer was warriors and guardians btw, not warriors and thieves. OP and UP do exist in PvE, and the high demand for these two classes show that.

The reason a lvl52 jade maw would be impossible to kill is because the agony is unavoidable and 1 shots anybody because there isn’t enough AR available.

Basically what Lord is saying is that PvE can have some insanely high thresholds in some areas that make it impossible or nearly impossible to win. So while PvP may be more intricate, it’s still easier than said pve areas because there’s actually a reasonable chance at winning.

LordByron.8369:

@stealth
because there was written
“scripted AI+mobs outrageous stats”
You didn t read mobs outrageous stats it seems.
And you just proved you don t know anything about PvE.
You can t kill lvl 52 jade maw.
It just oneshot you for 1570% (if i remember correctly) your HP as you approach the area, and once you are ressed it reapply agony to oneshot you again.
it was just to say that lacks of AI doesn t mean easy.
PvE is more challenging than WWW for sure if you know how is current WWW.
For pvp its a different thing
PvP players only are uberbad at PvE and vice versa. those game modes doesn t share anything in common.
And that is the reason why PvP builds and professoins are unviable in PvE and vice versa.

I don’t like to point people on their mistakes but you keep spamming WWW instead of WvW ( World versus World ).
If it was only one time then w/e but you spam the heck out of your WWW so I just had to ask what do you mean with WWW since the only WWW I know stands for World Wide Web .

If you actually mean anything correct with it then my mistake but when people were talking about World versus World and I see you spam WWW instead then it kinda makes me wonder.

Yeah I’ve ashamed to call myself an Ele main lately.

They nerfed our bunker, whoop-de-friggin-do. It was overpowered to the point that you werent’ seeing any other bunkers in SPvP except guardians, and were not seeing any other solo-roamers in WvW except thieves. To tell the truth I still think both guardians and thieves need to have more risk for their rewards in those areas as well.

And in addition to being overpowered, it was frustrating and anti-fun to fight against. Have some courtesy towards your fellow gamers.

Finally, the build still works fine, you just actually have to put in some effort now since you don’t have a dozen get out of jail free cards on your skill bar.

However, I disagree on your final point, I see the same amount of staff users complaining as always, it is undoubtedly (for most players) our least fulfilling weapon and has been since release. And I believe it is just as justified as ever. You yourself admitted that you switched over, for the same reason as everyone else, it doesn’t feel right.

The staff should basically feel to elementalists how the hammer feels to warriors, it should feel like every movement takes more time and effort than any other weapon. And as a result of that every action should feel more impactful. Right now, it just feel slow, and awkward, and unrewarding for those drawbacks.

cheshirefox.7026:

you’ve convinced me
elems are just as good as the other professions, if not better

This^ (but don’t forget the attachment, that’s the most important part).

Vazkro.1762:

LordByron.8369:

@stealth
because there was written
“scripted AI+mobs outrageous stats”
You didn t read mobs outrageous stats it seems.
And you just proved you don t know anything about PvE.
You can t kill lvl 52 jade maw.
It just oneshot you for 1570% (if i remember correctly) your HP as you approach the area, and once you are ressed it reapply agony to oneshot you again.
it was just to say that lacks of AI doesn t mean easy.
PvE is more challenging than WWW for sure if you know how is current WWW.
For pvp its a different thing
PvP players only are uberbad at PvE and vice versa. those game modes doesn t share anything in common.
And that is the reason why PvP builds and professoins are unviable in PvE and vice versa.

I don’t like to point people on their mistakes but you keep spamming WWW instead of WvW ( World versus World ).
If it was only one time then w/e but you spam the heck out of your WWW so I just had to ask what do you mean with WWW since the only WWW I know stands for World Wide Web .

If you actually mean anything correct with it then my mistake but when people were talking about World versus World and I see you spam WWW instead then it kinda makes me wonder.

World vs World vs World

The scepter got buffed with last patch and the 0/20/0/20/30 build is better than ever before. You can dodge hundred blades, easily mitigate backstab damage, but avoiding the lightning strike arcane burst combo is almost impossible, because all the skills are instant. The elementalist has the highest relieable burst in the game at the moment.
What about WvW? Some of the recent bunker nerfs such as the healing reduction of Cleansing Wave are restricted to sPvP, thereby leaving the strong sustain of the profession in WvW unchanged.
CoF shouldn’t be used to measure the usefulness of a class, because it’s a fast, dull and easy dungeon. Let’s have a look at the opposite: vulcanic fractal level 48. A scepter/focus ele brings a strong anti-projectile spell, group healing, condition removal and high ranged damage to the party. For fractals I would choose an elementalist over a warrior any day.
If some of the excentric posters (Why does ANet hate our profession?) spent as much time in the game as they do on the ele subforums, then their problems would fix themselves. The top sPvP teams have at least one elementalist on their team, sometimes even two. Think about it!

FirstBlood.7359:

CoF shouldn’t be used to measure the usefulness of a class, because it’s a fast, dull and easy dungeon. Let’s have a look at the opposite: vulcanic fractal level 48. A scepter/focus ele brings a strong anti-projectile spell, group healing, condition removal and high ranged damage to the party. For fractals I would choose an elementalist over a warrior any day.

Scepter/focus lacks sustained aoe damage. You either have to pick lightning hammer or just dagger/focus since there’s no need to range the boss except when you want to lure him into proper spot.

AoE damage is largely irrelevant for dungeons. Trashmobs are easily avoided or, in the case of fractals, barely exist (except for the dredge fractal) in the first place. Phoenix, Churning Earth, Dragons Tooth – some of the most powerful AE spells out there – are more than enough.

There are many reasons why you want to fight the shaman in ranged combat, especially in a pug. The distance allows you to avoid the flame arrow just by movement, because it’s a projectile. If you’re in melee and it hits someone, then it would be mandatory to spread out. Not to mention, if he targets someone with his flamestorm AE.

FirstBlood.7359:

AoE damage is largely irrelevant for dungeons. Trashmobs are easily avoided or, in the case of fractals, barely exist (except for the dredge fractal) in the first place. Phoenix, Churning Earth, Dragons Tooth – some of the most powerful AE spells out there – are more than enough.

There are many reasons why you want to fight the shaman in ranged combat, especially in a pug. The distance allows you to avoid the flame arrow just by movement, because it’s a projectile. If you’re in melee and it hits someone, then it would be mandatory to spread out. Not to mention, if he targets someone with his flamestorm AE.

I haven’t done 48 fotm for some time but on higher levels phoenix and dragon’s tooth are pitiful for clearing grubs and dredges.

Same thing can be said about almost any boss. Ranged is almost always less risky than close ranged combat. Plus, shaman prioritizes ranged players for flamestorm.

FirstBlood.7359:

The scepter got buffed with last patch and the 0/20/0/20/30 build is better than ever before. You can dodge hundred blades, easily mitigate backstab damage, but avoiding the lightning strike arcane burst combo is almost impossible, because all the skills are instant. The elementalist has the highest relieable burst in the game at the moment.
What about WvW? Some of the recent bunker nerfs such as the healing reduction of Cleansing Wave are restricted to sPvP, thereby leaving the strong sustain of the profession in WvW unchanged.

should we discuss again why PvP is different from WWW?
A bunker in WWW unless has a role in a zerg is a waste of www space.

CoF shouldn’t be used to measure the usefulness of a class, because it’s a fast, dull and easy dungeon. Let’s have a look at the opposite: vulcanic fractal level 48. A scepter/focus ele brings a strong anti-projectile spell,

that are useless compared to guardian due to being mostly personal…if you look at the nerfed swirling winds now, aside being unreliable not stopping some aoes from elementals has a too short duration and long cd to be a good tool

group healing, condition removal and high ranged damage to the party.

did you EVER manage to heal effectively anyone at lava 48?
Lets be serious only guardian has decent PvE healing….

For fractals I would choose an elementalist over a warrior any day.

This fractal requires 1-2 support professions and 3 dps.

Are you really comparing a support subpar profession with a DPS one?
I m sure nobody wants warrior for support.

If some of the excentric posters (Why does ANet hate our profession?) spent as much time in the game as they do on the ele subforums, then their problems would fix themselves.

Are you sure after what you wrote you are qualified enough for this sort of comment?

P.S: dragon s tooth VS elementals at 48 is tickling them…you need to spam 20-30K aoe fast and churning earth will just kill you if you try.
Ele has an average burst compared to austained damage of other professions.
The insanely long CD of eles and attunement restriction is not good for pve.

LordByron.8369:

should we discuss again why PvP is different from WWW?
A bunker in WWW unless has a role in a zerg is a waste of www space.

Are you talking about the 3 seconds of skill lag, most players just using autoattack, constant complaints about blobs, gear differences and in general uneven numbers? WvW isn’t a fair or competitive playground, therefore it’s a terrible place to compare the strength of different professions.
The 0/20/0/20/30 meta ele is the opposite of a bunker. It’s a roamer with strong burst and excellent pressure on downed players. The healing of Cleansing wave isn’t nerfed by 50% in WvW and the mobs on WvW maps allow you to shorten the RTL relieably, thereby making the ele more mobile. There’s no reason why the S/D ele with a build that excels in small scale sPvP combat should be worse off in WvW. It’s better. Your comment illustrates very well how little how you seem to know about the gamemechanics in general.

In respect of PvE: Healing Ripple, Cleansing Wave, Cleansing Wave from Evasive Arcana and Water Trident heal in total for about 10k, even if you are not specialized on healing power. Most skills are on a short, 10 seconds, cooldown. No further explanation needed.
The lines between support and damage are blurred. Does a warrior with banners not support his group? Does a thief with weakness from poison fields, shadow refuge and smoke screen not support his party? The strict distinction between those roles is left over from players that are still stuck in their old trinity mindset. Damage and support is not mutually exclusive.

FirstBlood.7359:

LordByron.8369:

should we discuss again why PvP is different from WWW?
A bunker in WWW unless has a role in a zerg is a waste of www space.

Are you talking about the 3 seconds of skill lag, most players just using autoattack,

No i am talking about capture point and spirit watch

A D/D ele is a roamer wich role is Killing stuff fast.
A bunker is not Killing stuff fast.

Thus D/D has only the marginal role of trying to distract enemy zergs with a solo attack on the rear or flank that competent players will just ignore not being a threat.

if you even try to stand in the zerg you don t arrive alive in fighting range.

If you try to roam with a bunker ele with 20 seconds RTL you will be interrupted before you can kill anything….
But at least you can keep pressure on thieves coming too deep in opponent map.

If you try o roam with a D/D with 40 CD RTL (zerker or whatever) your opponent will be able to flee at will ANY time unless its a really bad player.

Even a mesmer can easily escape a D/D ele now.
I don t even want to pretend FGS is a solution…also because izzy said it will nerf its mobility soon.

For PvE healing for 10.000 in so many seconds is infact useless.
You need a fast healing for Whole HP or constant regen…
Ele is not good at that…ele is good only at cleansing conditions but the lack of dps is too much of a price to pay.
You still can find too many profession doing the same better than ele to have a role in PvE.

A warrior with banner support AND dps.
Ele has mediocre support and lowest DPS (again don t mention COE build please that is good only in CoE for a reason).

I main a warrior just recently leveled an ele and I don’t get why all the complaining. Sure I can’t DPS like crazy like a warrior does but I can survive a lot more and support my team a lot better that with my warrior (banner warriors suck and are totally useless btw). I mainly WvW and do some PvE and even though I can’t faceroll pve content with my ele like I do on the warrior or guardian it is still pretty good (unlike the ranger which is awful in PvE). In WvW however the ele kicks kitten cause it is so versatile. I got a hybrid staff-D/D trait/gear setup where all I have to do is quickly swap weapons and a few major traits to go from zerg combat support to roaming pain in the kitten . If you can’t outrun a mesmer your should L2P.

Julie Yann.5379:

I main a warrior just recently leveled an ele and I don’t get why all the complaining. Sure I can’t DPS like crazy like a warrior does but I can survive a lot more and support my team a lot better that with my warrior (banner warriors suck and are totally useless btw). I mainly WvW and do some PvE and even though I can’t faceroll pve content with my ele like I do on the warrior or guardian it is still pretty good (unlike the ranger which is awful in PvE). In WvW however the ele kicks kitten cause it is so versatile. I got a hybrid staff-D/D trait/gear setup where all I have to do is quickly swap weapons and a few major traits to go from zerg combat support to roaming pain in the kitten . If you can’t outrun a mesmer your should L2P.

QFT. Warrior has insane mobility with their GS/S setup but they CANNOT survive at all as compared to an Ele. Ele could use mobility but not survivability apart from a buff to the base hp though since we are forced into water to do this