Guild Wars 2

I am still struggling to understand why the class with pretty much the worst of everything also gets shafted when it comes to health as well. I mean our damage is pathetic compared to pretty much everyone else.

Our “burst” is laughable. If you are lucky and everything crits you MIGHT down them if they refuse to use dodges, healing and such but they dont get downed and you are simply dead thanks to the very low health.

So can anyone tell me why it is so low? It surely cant be down to the Healing in Water, because its pretty rubbish unless you go full Bunker/healing and even then its on a 40 second cool down and you wont be killing anyone.

Necro for example, They have TWO health bars and nearly 3-4 times the amount we have, do alot more damage. The only thing they dont really have is movement but ours isnt that great thanks to the nerf to RTL.

my guess is because our attack power was heavily nerfed in the beta and they didn’t bother to fix the class.

Or maybe it is because lingering element was too powerful

I have 20 into Vit as well as FULL P/T/V armor and still only have 17,000health thats LESS then my mesmer WITHOUT any Vit gear or Points into Vit tree line…

When you consider that we are pretty much worse then everyone else at pretty much everything bar going Full bunker at which you will live longer, but die in the end and wont have any chance at killing anyone

You go bersker and its either kill them or you die, its that simple Without the Vit and everything, i am at like 10-11,000 health which just isnt acceptable considering the awful damage, the awful armor and the fact you are locked into what ever weapon you are using at the time…

I suspect it was originally done for thematic reasons. I agree that it’s generally unwarranted at the moment, though. Bumping us to the middle health tier would go a long way towards opening up our builds.

Wait, you mean lingering elements, the bugged skill that only works with fire-5 and water-5? Was that a joke (I mean that seriously, not being facetious)?

I think their reasoning was that “because we can heal so much” we have low health. However, that means we are essentially forced to spec 45 points (15 water and 30 arcane) to get your proper healing or go full-on glass. We are forced to give up a lot for inherent class mechanics to even be available to us. We have so many built in weaknesses (low health, low armor, reliance on dancing which destroys our versatility, low damage), and the available strengths we could build for have been nerfed into oblivion. Ele: all risk, little reward!

Blaine Tog.8304:

I suspect it was originally done for thematic reasons. I agree that it’s generally unwarranted at the moment, though. Bumping us to the middle health tier would go a long way towards opening up our builds.

100% agree, wouldn’t be forced into P/T/V gear if our Health was increased. It should be near/higher then Mesmer in my opinion. They have clones, Phantasm, Stealth, Distortion, Evades(Sword) and ALOT of combat movement as well as choice of weapons during combat.

We should have around 14-15,000 basic as the damage isnt really enough and the “healing” from Water isn’t anything 1,500 healing(245healing Power) on a 40second cool down…

Well the “we heal so much” doesnt justify our mediocre dps, lowest healthpool ad armor, crappy traits, insane cds and such

BlackBeard.2873:

Wait, you mean lingering elements, the bugged skill that only works with fire-5 and water-5? Was that a joke (I mean that seriously, not being facetious)?

I think their reasoning was that “because we can heal so much” we have low health. However, that means we are essentially forced to spec 45 points (15 water and 30 arcane) to get your proper healing or go full-on glass. We are forced to give up a lot for inherent class mechanics to even be available to us. We have so many built in weaknesses (low health, low armor, reliance on dancing which destroys our versatility, low damage), and the available strengths we could build for have been nerfed into oblivion. Ele: all risk, little reward!

No i was talking about the Vitality you get from not, not a specific trait. “Heal so much” yeah if we go full water and take plenty of healing power on gear. D/D has ONE heal skill on a 40 second cool down, i wouldnt really call that amazing.

Now if only they did Toughness/Vitality/Healing Power stat combo…

Yep, all they have done is nerf and more nerf without actually thinking about the class. They didnt ever stop to think “Hey, have we nerfed them to much” The class is pretty much the WORST when it comes to WvW, in pretty much anything bar standing at the back and using Staff…

He was replying to me, and yes, I was being sarcastic.

Ptolomy.6984:

Well the “we heal so much” doesnt justify our mediocre dps, lowest healthpool ad armor, crappy traits, insane cds and such

Especially when you consider we have to give up SO much trait and armor wise, we MIGHT get that great healing yet we will lose EVERYWHERE else – Health, Armor, Damage…

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Ptolomy.6984:

Well the “we heal so much” doesnt justify our mediocre dps, lowest healthpool ad armor, crappy traits, insane cds and such

Especially when you consider we have to give up SO much trait and armor wise, we MIGHT get that great healing yet we will lose EVERYWHERE else – Health, Armor, Damage…

Ah yeah I forgot to mention that too xd
When i duel on ele most classes take alot of time and cant really do a burst when i need to. When im on mesmer it just gets like 10 times easier… And believe me im quite a nooby mesmerxd

From the official site:

“What they lack in physical toughness, they make up in versatility and the ability to inflict massive damage in a single attack.”

What a joke. The only high-damage spec I see that is somewhat viable (at least in SPvp) is S/D…and even that is a one-trick pony.

It’s almost like Ele was one of the first professions they created, and they didn’t bother to upgrade it when later professions were given better base stats/more options.

I mean really, no other class sacrifices so much to have the ability to deal “decent” damage. We have no compensation for our pathetic base health and armor (7k-10k backstab=60% of our health pool gone.) And don’t even get me started on our supposed versatility. Our skills on an individual basis are weaker than those of other professions (see out pathetic auto attacks) because we’re supposed to switch often and use our expanded skill pool more frequently. Oh but wait, base attunement recharge rate is 16 seconds, requiring us to spend at least 20 points into Arcane to do the dance well.

We did have decent mobility, and yes the old RtL’s ability to reset fights was overpowered…but as we currently stand, we can be caught by any profession, with the possible exception of the necromancer.

Either give us more health/armor or up our damage coefficients/skill cooldowns.

I know this is just me whining…but I think we have legitimate concerns here that need to be addressed.

Nonono ANet is perfectly true to their word: we have a single attack that inflicts massive damage: FGS + lightning flash.

I agree..I’ve taken the suggestions and have just shelfed my ele

Luckily I have a slot to spare so in the future if they decide to give a much needed mid tier health upgrade or give any other buffs, I can take it out and play again..at this point everything just compounds to give a miserable experience for me..

Low health, low damage, low armor, long cooldowns, the list goes on..

It is sad to say because the actual “Concept” of switching around your affinity during battle to provide versatility sounds so awesome in theory but in practice needs to be refined greatly by Anet…

I agree with Blaine, I think we once had the ability to actually damage people, but they nerfed that into oblivion. Honestly, the one weapon set that “feels” versatile is the staff, although it could use some more damage and CD reduction by a bit.

Anyway, if they want us to stay as a min-health class we need some more inherent survivability techniques: thief has stealth/evades, guardian has aegis/prot for days and blocks, mesmer has clones/stealth, warrior has toughness/absurd healing/mobility, ranger has passive protection for days/evades, engineer has control/blocks/mobility/healing, and necro has control/absurd health. Eles have primarily decent burst healing (EA dodge-roll and water attunement) with a minor in vigor/limited prot. We need either more blocks, more protection, more control, or more mobility to have a second major way to survive. That is why the RtL nerf killed us: you couldn’t effectively run anymore.

And to people who say RtL was too OP, with the range reduction that is just false. It is no more effective that anything that a warrior,thief,or mesmer can do with their escape conditions (or ranger if you run GS). They just wanted to whack a mole rather than making people learn: immob = ele dead.

BlackBeard.2873:

And to people who say RtL was too OP, with the range reduction that is just false. It is no more effective that anything that a warrior,thief,or mesmer can do with their escape conditions (or ranger if you run GS). They just wanted to whack a mole rather than making people learn: immob = ele dead.

I agree. The nerf to its range IMO was more than enough. I do understand why they wanted to up its CD, but 40 seconds is overkill, especially since it triggers even if blocked/evaded…which isn’t supposed to happen. Plus, the joy of zipping around in RtL form in PvE is one big reason why I chose Ele as my main…the nerf was just mean-spirited in that regard.

Yeah to me, they started off with the idea of us being a Thief like casting class – low health but high damage, except they removed all that damage and didnt change anything else. So now we are a magic thief class with low health and no damage :/

^ You forgot to mention that we found this one spec that could tank for quite a while by just continuously healing and dodging, occasionally doing just below-par damage, then they nerfed THAT into oblivion too. They took our damage, they took our mobility, they took our healing…they took our jobs!

My question will ele be ever fixed ? like they did with necromancer ? A man can dream.

Mahdi.6157:

My question will ele be ever fixed ? like they did with necromancer ? A man can dream.

They didnt fix Necro, they over buffed them…

There is absolutely no excuse for our garbage hp and armor. It’s a slap in the face that necro, which can deal way more aoe damage and conditions, gets the highest hp, a second health bar, and can build tanky with toughness/vit/condition damage (and a heal that instantly cures all conditions).

Honestly all classes should have the same hp and armor since they obviously don’t take it into account when they push through balance changes. Just look at warrior’s signet ridiculousness giving massive sustain to the class with the highest hp and armor.

Not everyone can do everything, a recurring theme with ANet’s game design. However, it is logical design to an extent. If everyone profession could do damage healing and tanking then what would be the point of making alternative class?

However, while most the other classes have their niches, elementalist niche is to do everything and have more skills then everyone. So everything we have is shafted.

In all honesty, the elementalist could be a great profession once again with a tweak or 2 here and their.

Our armour, health, healing, dps, support and movement (just to name a few) have all been shafted so you don’t out perform other classes. Imagine if we could do similar damage to a thief and also do our healing, or if we could out bunker a guardian and also out dps him. Why would anyone play those classes?

Unfortunately to add to our other disadvantages is the skill cap the elementalist requires. Many other professions are spam and forget. I can play a spirit ranger whilst watching my favourite TV show, but to lose concentration for a second with the ele is near certain death. I’m not saying other classes and other builds don’t require skill, but there are some very good performing builds that are set and forget, that can perform much better then we can and don’t have to put much effort into their play style.

The elementalist has 2x as many weapon skills as other professions, but is that an advantage or a dis advantage. Remember those other professions have 2 weapon sets, so 10 skills but multiple combinations. As an ele we are forced to take 20 skills related to our weapon set. So a warrior could take a long bow and his mace shield but us eles have to decide ranged or melee, support or damage within our build as there is no, “oh hes kiting me switch to range weapon” for us. With 20 skills comes the balancing as well, our damage, healing and boon support through weapons is lower then other classes weapons. While we have some good skills with high damage, in the end they are either hard to land (Dragons Tooth, phoenix to an extent) and on long cooldowns (phoenix, shower of the meteor, fire grab).

Combined with our slow cool down skills are skills that seem to be either useless or in serious need of repair. Take for example the focus, while a powerful weapon, to get it’s full power you must use it in the very right place. Looking down fire we have Fire Shield, which has a cool down the same as frosty aura but is nowhere near as good. Gaining 5 stacks of might and 5 seconds of burning (vs 1 other foe, more when there are more around) doesn’t seem like a good ability for a 40 second cool down. Frosty Aura lasts an extra 2 seconds, grants a better condition and reduces incoming damage by 10% and shares the cool down.

I believe if you take away some of the passive play, the petting zoo and increase the else power by a little (mainly tweaking the weapons to make them all viable for all the gametypes) we could have a decent class the could stand up to other players.

Currently passive play, hiding in minons and abusing the broken stealth mechanics are ruining pvp and are probably worse in WvW (esp against new players). I would much rather see a Skill vs Skill game, not a “I summoned a bunch or crap and auto attack dodged you to death, I so leet”, or “I can hit you with 8k every 4 seconds and you can’t see me do it” type of game.

@ Blackbeard

THEY TOOK OUR JOBS!!! THE DRKE KEK KEK JOBBS!!!!

Guys if history stays true (with what happened to Engi , Necro and Warrior ) you guys should expect some god tier buffs very soon lol , and abruptly some god tier nerfs

Oh wait…

I believe it’s a shift in designer’s visions that failed to be implemented properly. It’s obvious that they intended Eles to be high damage, bursty with low health judging from the old Attunement descriptions. Instead though, we have other designers who want them to be super versatile with a mix of condition damage, sustain and direct damage.

Thus, health is kept low and our sustain has been nerfed according to the first design vision but damage potential is also kept low due to the second design vision.

The conflicting design visions has led the ele to become the broken ragdoll as they are today and it will continue to be so until the designers. It seems they are firm on the second design vision now and have updated the Ele page at guildwars2.com according and according to how Isaiah Cartwright condones the use of celestial gear.
http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2/c/2491717

It will take a very long while until Ele becomes balanced again.