Was it really so game breaking?
You nerf our aoe
You nerf our healing
You nerf mist form
You nerf our mobility
But this one i just i don’t know. In my opinion lightningflash should do more than just teleport you and do a useless amount of damage. It should remove a stun again, or at the very least stun your oponnent for a couple seconds if you actually manage to hit them with it rather than use it to get away which is all it’s good for is avoiding an enemy for a couple more seconds.
I compare it to blink. Blink it just better due to recharge and stun breaking. Lightning Flash deals damage, but I don’t know of anyone who ever used the skill for offense.
Sylvari Elementalist – Mystree Duskbloom (Lv 80)
Norn Guardian – Aurora Lustyr (Lv 80)
Mia A Shadows Glow – Human Thief (Lv 80)
I compare it to blink. Blink it just better due to recharge and stun breaking. Lightning Flash deals damage, but I don’t know of anyone who ever used the skill for offense.
That’s why i think it should remove a stun so it’s at least somewhat more useful in a fight for a 40 second teleport that does low damage. Why not give it a 2-3 second stun if we actually hit someone with it, give us a reason to use it offensively if that’s what they are aiming for because that damage isn’t worth it.
Giving it a stun sounds interesting. But they’d have to up the recharge. If you want to keep the recharge where it’s at. Daze for 2 seconds would be more appropriate, with maybe a 3 second cripple.
Sylvari Elementalist – Mystree Duskbloom (Lv 80)
Norn Guardian – Aurora Lustyr (Lv 80)
Mia A Shadows Glow – Human Thief (Lv 80)
It’s still a useful skill because of the mobility nerfs and our channeled attacks. But from a functional viewpoint it does seem odd that a warping skill like that isn’t the stun breaker. Still, they had to pick some cantrips to remove the stunbreak from, and your other choices were mist form(unlikely since all invulns break stun) and armor of earth(which would mean losing our only stability utility).
If they do buff it with a daze in addition to current function though, I’d only expect a second or two in exchange for higher cd, or maybe just a 1/4 daze for interrupting.
It wasn’t that Lighting Flash can’t have a stun. It was than the Cantrips were bogarting all the stuns and Anet wanted to spread them around, so they took them off the two Cantrips which they though could still make sense without stuns, I guess.
Lighting Flash is still awesome. Blink looks better, but remember that Mesmers also don’t have spells like Churning Earth and Meteor Storm which Lighting Flash makes substantially more powerful than they would be without it. Lighting Flash is a stronger spell on the Ele than Blink is on Mesmers.
I main Ele and Necro, though I have an alt of each profession at level 80. How to Condi Reaper on a budget
Everything I say is only in reference to PvE and WvW.
I compare it to blink. Blink it just better due to recharge and stun breaking. Lightning Flash deals damage, but I don’t know of anyone who ever used the skill for offense.
The damage can be great from 2-4k if you have good amount of power and critical dmg without being glass cannon. You have no idea how many times I have defeated an enemy when they are trying to get away and If LF didn’t deal dmg they would have gotten away.
Heidia- The elementalist is the #1 most OP profession in this game since beta!
It wasn’t that Lighting Flash can’t have a stun. It was than the Cantrips were bogarting all the stuns and Anet wanted to spread them around, so they took them off the two Cantrips which they though could still make sense without stuns, I guess.
Lighting Flash is still awesome. Blink looks better, but remember that Mesmers also don’t have spells like Churning Earth and Meteor Storm which Lighting Flash makes substantially more powerful than they would be without it. Lighting Flash is a stronger spell on the Ele than Blink is on Mesmers.
Well mesmers blink mixed with a stealth can easily make you lose track of a mesmer in his mess of clones. Which can be >=< the effects of Lightning flash with churning Earth depending on how experienced the mesmer is at using this tactic. I’d rather have Lightning flash on a 30 sec cd with stunbreak personally than have it still able to be combined with churning Earth which is dodged by all experienced players.
Well mesmers blink mixed with a stealth can easily make you lose track of a mesmer in his mess of clones. Which can be >=< the effects of Lightning flash with churning Earth depending on how experienced the mesmer is at using this tactic. I’d rather have Lightning flash on a 30 sec cd with stunbreak personally than have it still able to be combined with churning Earth which is dodged by all experienced players.
I’m not saying Blink is a bad skill. It’s not. It’s a great skill and it seriously helps Mesmers with survivability. I’m just saying that Lightning Flash does more for the Ele than Blink does for Mesmers. Both can use it defensively, but the Ele can also use it to mitigate the downsides of some of their spells, plus ours deals damage.
Again, Lightning Flash is still an amazing skill. It’s still on my bar 99% of the time. Utility skills don’t need to be balanced against the Utilities from other professions, just against the profession that has them.
I main Ele and Necro, though I have an alt of each profession at level 80. How to Condi Reaper on a budget
Everything I say is only in reference to PvE and WvW.
Using lightning flash offensively is pretty hilarious. I like combining it with CC and burning speed/firegrab. I’d have preferred no damage on it though and an even lower cooldown.
Lightning Flash deals damage, but I don’t know of anyone who ever used the skill for offense.
Churning Earth > Lightning Flash to your target to avoid it getting dodged.
Earthquake > Lightning Flash to your target to stun it immediatly.
That’s just to name two offensive uses of it. I think it’s still a great skill. It can function as a stunbreaker without being one. Most stuns in the game have only a 3/4 to 1 second duration. Despite being stunned you can still use Lightning Flash to teleport out of danger. It doesn’t break the stun, but who cares with such short durations.
Lightning Flash deals damage, but I don’t know of anyone who ever used the skill for offense.
Churning Earth > Lightning Flash to your target to avoid it getting dodged.
Earthquake > Lightning Flash to your target to stun it immediatly.
That’s just to name two offensive uses of it. I think it’s still a great skill. It can function as a stunbreaker without being one. Most stuns in the game have only a 3/4 to 1 second duration. Despite being stunned you can still use Lightning Flash to teleport out of danger. It doesn’t break the stun, but who cares with such short durations.
Yes, but since lightning flash hits for 1k, and churning earth hits for 7k, and the following earth 4,2, fire 5,4 hit for 12k; no one cares about the damage from lightning flash.
Lightning Flash deals damage, but I don’t know of anyone who ever used the skill for offense.
Churning Earth > Lightning Flash to your target to avoid it getting dodged.
Earthquake > Lightning Flash to your target to stun it immediatly.
That’s just to name two offensive uses of it. I think it’s still a great skill. It can function as a stunbreaker without being one. Most stuns in the game have only a 3/4 to 1 second duration. Despite being stunned you can still use Lightning Flash to teleport out of danger. It doesn’t break the stun, but who cares with such short durations.
I completely forgot about mixing it with Churning Earth. People have been getting good at timing thier dodges, so mixing in Lightning Flash has been irrelevant in my experience.
I like the idea of mixing it with earthquake though
Sylvari Elementalist – Mystree Duskbloom (Lv 80)
Norn Guardian – Aurora Lustyr (Lv 80)
Mia A Shadows Glow – Human Thief (Lv 80)
Lightning Flash deals damage, but I don’t know of anyone who ever used the skill for offense.
Churning Earth > Lightning Flash to your target to avoid it getting dodged.
Earthquake > Lightning Flash to your target to stun it immediatly.
That’s just to name two offensive uses of it. I think it’s still a great skill. It can function as a stunbreaker without being one. Most stuns in the game have only a 3/4 to 1 second duration. Despite being stunned you can still use Lightning Flash to teleport out of danger. It doesn’t break the stun, but who cares with such short durations.
I completely forgot about mixing it with Churning Earth. People have been getting good at timing thier dodges, so mixing in Lightning Flash has been irrelevant in my experience.
I like the idea of mixing it with earthquake though
Mixing it with burning speed, fire grab, updraft FGS cast, FGS skill 3 and 4 is awesome too.
Heidia- The elementalist is the #1 most OP profession in this game since beta!
Earthquake > Lightning Flash is probably the hardest thing to do. And gl trying to do it in WvW with massive skill lag. Or porting Ring of Fire at target location is also just as hard. Break out those high-end PCs.
Things I use it for: Churning, gap closer, mobility (not just escape, but porting out of red circles).
I don’t mind that it’s not a stun breaker. I don’t care that it does damage. I would love if it was a blast or leap finisher though. Maybe had special properties based on what attunement we’re in. Just throwing out some ideas. It’s fine overall, though.
Earthquake > Lightning Flash is probably the hardest thing to do. And gl trying to do it in WvW with massive skill lag. Or porting Ring of Fire at target location is also just as hard. Break out those high-end PCs.
Things I use it for: Churning, gap closer, mobility (not just escape, but porting out of red circles).
I don’t mind that it’s not a stun breaker. I don’t care that it does damage. I would love if it was a blast or leap finisher though. Maybe had special properties based on what attunement we’re in. Just throwing out some ideas. It’s fine overall, though.
I find LF+fgs skill 4 to be much more complex to execute it perfectly well in pvp because many more variables take place.
Heidia- The elementalist is the #1 most OP profession in this game since beta!
Hitting FGS 4, then 5, tends to make you run backwards unless you pause to make sure your mouse is top center of the screen. But that’s using it to go from A to B, and not against an enemy. FGS 1 spam on a group of people, especially downed, is probably the best thing we can do for our team because the damage is around 1500-2500 per target, and it’kittenting 5 people in a clump. I used to use it taking camps, but I tend to prefer water/earth elemental if I have no stacks of anything (might, Applied Fortitude, bloodlust). I use lightning flash to get behind the claimer’s hammer interrupts.
I compare it to blink. Blink it just better due to recharge and stun breaking. Lightning Flash deals damage, but I don’t know of anyone who ever used the skill for offense.
You don’t?
Swap to earth, cast earthquake followed by a quick lightning flash to your target.
If both crit you’re looking at around 6k damage. While your target is laying on the ground, swap to lightning for a quick zap, updraft, swap to fire, burning speed then fire grab.
I compare it to blink. Blink it just better due to recharge and stun breaking. Lightning Flash deals damage, but I don’t know of anyone who ever used the skill for offense.
You don’t?
Swap to earth, cast earthquake followed by a quick lightning flash to your target.
If both crit you’re looking at around 6k damage. While your target is laying on the ground, swap to lightning for a quick zap, updraft, swap to fire, burning speed then fire grab.
If your opponent just stands there and lets you do all of this then you’re facing a very terrible player.
I compare it to blink. Blink it just better due to recharge and stun breaking. Lightning Flash deals damage, but I don’t know of anyone who ever used the skill for offense.
You don’t?
Swap to earth, cast earthquake followed by a quick lightning flash to your target.
If both crit you’re looking at around 6k damage. While your target is laying on the ground, swap to lightning for a quick zap, updraft, swap to fire, burning speed then fire grab.
If your opponent just stands there and lets you do all of this then you’re facing a very terrible player.
Agreed. Then again there are plenty of terrible players in this game.
Lightning Flash deals damage, but I don’t know of anyone who ever used the skill for offense.
Churning Earth > Lightning Flash to your target to avoid it getting dodged.
Earthquake > Lightning Flash to your target to stun it immediatly.
That’s just to name two offensive uses of it. I think it’s still a great skill. It can function as a stunbreaker without being one. Most stuns in the game have only a 3/4 to 1 second duration. Despite being stunned you can still use Lightning Flash to teleport out of danger. It doesn’t break the stun, but who cares with such short durations.
I completely forgot about mixing it with Churning Earth. People have been getting good at timing thier dodges, so mixing in Lightning Flash has been irrelevant in my experience.
I like the idea of mixing it with earthquake though
Most people simply walk out of Churning Earth instead of trying to dodge it. That’s a smart thing to do. However, feeling so safe they get easily hit by Lightning Flash + Churning Earth. By my observation 97% – even good players – get caught by it, because it’s difficult to avoid if you don’t anticipate it.
I compare it to blink. Blink it just better due to recharge and stun breaking. Lightning Flash deals damage, but I don’t know of anyone who ever used the skill for offense.
You don’t?
Swap to earth, cast earthquake followed by a quick lightning flash to your target.
If both crit you’re looking at around 6k damage. While your target is laying on the ground, swap to lightning for a quick zap, updraft, swap to fire, burning speed then fire grab.
If your opponent just stands there and lets you do all of this then you’re facing a very terrible player.
I think you are confusing earthquake with churning earth. LF+Earthquake is different than Lf+Chunning Earth. Sure, you can see the jump animation and avoid it but that also can be taken towards your opponent advantage. No matter how good an opponent is any decent ele can get his enemy with this combo easily.
Heidia- The elementalist is the #1 most OP profession in this game since beta!
I compare it to blink. Blink it just better due to recharge and stun breaking. Lightning Flash deals damage, but I don’t know of anyone who ever used the skill for offense.
You don’t?
Swap to earth, cast earthquake followed by a quick lightning flash to your target.
If both crit you’re looking at around 6k damage. While your target is laying on the ground, swap to lightning for a quick zap, updraft, swap to fire, burning speed then fire grab.
6k from lightning flash and earth 4? It is lies like that, that get classes nerfed. While we are at it, my air 1 does 2.5k, and my fire 5 does 19k, and my water 5 does 7k…
I compare it to blink. Blink it just better due to recharge and stun breaking. Lightning Flash deals damage, but I don’t know of anyone who ever used the skill for offense.
You don’t?
Swap to earth, cast earthquake followed by a quick lightning flash to your target.
If both crit you’re looking at around 6k damage. While your target is laying on the ground, swap to lightning for a quick zap, updraft, swap to fire, burning speed then fire grab.
6k from lightning flash and earth 4? It is lies like that, that get classes nerfed. While we are at it, my air 1 does 2.5k, and my fire 5 does 19k, and my water 5 does 7k…
All ele nerfs should be removed.
Clearly he meant total dmg of both skills which is correct if you are not playing all bunker/healer type of ele.
Heidia- The elementalist is the #1 most OP profession in this game since beta!
I compare it to blink. Blink it just better due to recharge and stun breaking. Lightning Flash deals damage, but I don’t know of anyone who ever used the skill for offense.
You don’t?
Swap to earth, cast earthquake followed by a quick lightning flash to your target.
If both crit you’re looking at around 6k damage. While your target is laying on the ground, swap to lightning for a quick zap, updraft, swap to fire, burning speed then fire grab.
6k from lightning flash and earth 4? It is lies like that, that get classes nerfed. While we are at it, my air 1 does 2.5k, and my fire 5 does 19k, and my water 5 does 7k…
All ele nerfs should be removed.
Clearly he meant total dmg of both skills which is correct if you are not playing all bunker/healer type of ele.
I compare it to blink. Blink it just better due to recharge and stun breaking. Lightning Flash deals damage, but I don’t know of anyone who ever used the skill for offense.
You don’t?
Swap to earth, cast earthquake followed by a quick lightning flash to your target.
If both crit you’re looking at around 6k damage. While your target is laying on the ground, swap to lightning for a quick zap, updraft, swap to fire, burning speed then fire grab.
6k from lightning flash and earth 4? It is lies like that, that get classes nerfed. While we are at it, my air 1 does 2.5k, and my fire 5 does 19k, and my water 5 does 7k…
All ele nerfs should be removed.
It depends how much power you’re rolling with. In WvW with bloodlust stacks I’m running around with 2300 power. My food buff gives me 200 power for 30 sec after killing anything that grants XP. Factor in some might stacks and power can easily reach 3000.
I understand the comparisons of lightning flash to blink, but I don’t think they are fair. Every skill has to be taken in context of the class they are on. Mesmers don’t have PbAOE CC spells like updraft or earthquake, and doesn’t have heavy-hitters like churning earth. I am perfectly fine with LF the way it is, as it really does open up a lot of unpredictability into usually predictable combos/rotations.
Cleansing flame losing its stun-break is bad-news bears however. Eles need our stun-breaks b/c of how squishy we are, so we are now forced to pick which defensive skills you want if you like to roam and survive.
One of my favorite combos is doing burning speed and immediately followed by a lightning flash next to the enemy. Then after that, I use fire grab if I can. Followed by a mix of element switching and other skills.
Sorry for the typos….
I’m usually typing on my phone
It’s very sad that with all these nerfs Elementalist is now “good at everything but great at nothing”, thanks Arenanet for continued nerfing into a wishy washy class that takes skill to play and yet cannot achieve anything great. (pops healing signet on warrior)
Colin ‘The Liar’ Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on equal power base.”
Changing the location of stunbreaks was not a good solution. The solution should have been making the bad utilities better, for instance giving signets better on-activate effects to promote active instead of passive play. Giving signet of air a stunbreak doesn’t solve this problem because eles have no use for the passive and the active doesn’t come with any other defensive utility; they’re only using it because it’s a low cd stunbreak and we’re desperate.
Meanwhile you have Glyph of Elemental Power being such a joke that it’s not even worth it for the stunbreak.
All cantrips being stunbreakers wasn’t a good idea neither. It made cantrip eles too strong.
About LF, it’s an awesome utility skill. The lower cooldown and the higher damage from the patch actually makes it stronger than before when used offensively. And even though it doesn’t breaks stun anymore, you can still use it to prevent bursts.
Let’s do a bit of math.
LF + Earthquake = 3-4k damage.
Switch to air (with air’s 15th trait) + Scepter’s #2 = 3-4k damage.
Sigil of Fire thrown there for some extra damage.
That’s about 9k damage that is nearly instant-cast. No matter how good your opponent is, it’s hard to react to this.
All cantrips being stunbreakers wasn’t a good idea neither. It made cantrip eles too strong.
About LF, it’s an awesome utility skill. The lower cooldown and the higher damage from the patch actually makes it stronger than before when used offensively. And even though it doesn’t breaks stun anymore, you can still use it to prevent bursts.
Let’s do a bit of math.
LF + Earthquake = 3-4k damage.
Switch to air (with air’s 15th trait) + Scepter’s #2 = 3-4k damage.
Sigil of Fire thrown there for some extra damage.
That’s about 9k damage that is nearly instant-cast. No matter how good your opponent is, it’s hard to react to this.
That would make a lot of sense if other classes couldn’t do the same amount of damage or more, WITH ONE ABILITY.
That would make a lot of sense if other classes couldn’t do the same amount of damage or more, WITH ONE ABILITY.
Tell me a single other profession that can do over 9k damage at nearly instant speed. Your opponents can’t even react to that burst, and elementalists still have updraft, still have the entire fire traitline, can still heal and remove conditions on themselves and allies on water, and still switch back to earth for aoe protection.
Elementalists are generally really strong in pvp. The only exception is in the current meta, because most ele’s party support and self defense abilities do not work versus conditions, and because their bunker anti-condition setups are countered by s/d thieves. Once the condition meta is nerfed, eles will get back to play.
All cantrips being stunbreakers wasn’t a good idea neither. It made cantrip eles too strong.
No, it really didn’t. If cantrips were reverted eles would gain nothing but a little more strength against the condi/fear/stun spam. Their damage would not increase, and they would still not be top tier bunkers.
Tell me a single other profession that can do over 9k damage at nearly instant speed. Your opponents can’t even react to that burst, and elementalists still have updraft, still have the entire fire traitline, can still heal and remove conditions on themselves and allies on water, and still switch back to earth for aoe protection.
Earthquake is hardly instant, and if you are spotted mid-cast a single dodge kills the entire spike, because its proper application requires all the skills be cast in a very short amount of time. It won’t take long for the playerbase to become accustomed to this kind of burst and punish it hard, because these eles give up a lot of escape/survivability to pull off that damage.
That would make a lot of sense if other classes couldn’t do the same amount of damage or more, WITH ONE ABILITY.
Tell me a single other profession that can do over 9k damage at nearly instant speed. Your opponents can’t even react to that burst, and elementalists still have updraft, still have the entire fire traitline, can still heal and remove conditions on themselves and allies on water, and still switch back to earth for aoe protection.
Elementalists are generally really strong in pvp. The only exception is in the current meta, because most ele’s party support and self defense abilities do not work versus conditions, and because their bunker anti-condition setups are countered by s/d thieves. Once the condition meta is nerfed, eles will get back to play.
How about a Thief backstabbing from stealth, 9k ezpz. Rifle Warriors. Melee rangers. Some pervert shatter Mesmers using Mind Wrack and Cry of Frustration at the same time.
See, Eles have to do so much smashing buttons for a good combo while Thiefs, Warriors and Rangers only have to press 1 skill. And I think every class should have to do some work to make a fluent, working combo deal good damage.
I dont know what kinds of players you face but even in WvW, where the vast majority of players is considered as “scrubs” by sPvPers, when I LF+Stun them, they use a stunbreaker and dodge to gain some distance. Maybe pop their invunability (if they have some) and heal up before reengaging or running away.
That would make a lot of sense if other classes couldn’t do the same amount of damage or more, WITH ONE ABILITY.
Tell me a single other profession that can do over 9k damage at nearly instant speed.
Are you kidding? Thief, warrior, and mesmer can do more than 9k with 1 button press. Necro, engineer, ranger, can do more than 9k nearly instantly with a combination of attacks. And I’m not talking about some crazy spec that no one ever runs, these are common things.
Gotta agree with you on that. I’m not saying I want the class to become easy like thief where I can just press 1 button and kill someone. that’s exactly the reason I haven’t touched my thief in months, it’s a boring class to play because of the low skill cap and how easy it is. I’m just saying I want some payoff for all the effort I put in. Doing 10 times the work just to be BELOW other classes doesn’t cut it. If I do a huge combo on my ele I’d like to see bigger payoff. We sacrifice so much in return for so little. It isn’t balanced at all. We just need all the nerfs we’ve been hit by since beta reversed as well as a few buffs to our crappy skills which have been crappy since beta and then we’ll be on par with all the other classes and their recent ridiculous buffs.
We just need all the nerfs we’ve been hit by since beta reversed as well as a few buffs to our crappy skills which have been crappy since beta and then we’ll be on par with all the other classes and their recent ridiculous buffs.
No you are going a bit too far.
Just give me the stunbreak on LF back and revert the RtL CD to 20s. Maybe reshuffle some traits so that 30 Arcana and at least 10 water isnt a must for close combat builds. (without making it any worse than it is)
This would make me a happy d/d ele again.
