Guild Wars 2

Like the title says, why was Heat sync changed in the beta?

Did heat sync use to copy all boons? I did not play in the beta.

Ulion.5476:

Did heat sync use to copy all boons? I did not play in the beta.

Yeah it used to be the best warhorn skill, it copied all boons. Could have been really interesting if the other skills were good or if the ele had gotten new boons.

I think it’s hilarious mesmers have a trait that copies all boons on 30 sec cd, but Heat sync got nerfed cause apparently too strong.

I don’t think it would have been too strong at all. If your team stays within range of earth overload you can easily give them permanent protection, and near permanent protection through regular shouts and auras if they kite around the point more. Tempest never had much mightstacking compared to D/D ele so I don’t think that would have been broken, and it would have given armor of earth a new lease on life.

So yeah, why nerf this skill, if you can already permanently maintain protection on allies, the boon that this skill was most likely nerfed in the first place for?

Laraley.7695:

I think it’s hilarious mesmers have a trait that copies all boons on 30 sec cd, but Heat sync got nerfed cause apparently too strong.

Not all boons, but they can copy a lot of boons with it.
Besides the trait they have an utility spell called signet of inspiration, which shares boons too
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Inspiration

nearlight.3064:

I don’t think it would have been too strong at all. If your team stays within range of earth overload you can easily give them permanent protection, and near permanent protection through regular shouts and auras if they kite around the point more. Tempest never had much mightstacking compared to D/D ele so I don’t think that would have been broken, and it would have given armor of earth a new lease on life.

So yeah, why nerf this skill, if you can already permanently maintain protection on allies, the boon that this skill was most likely nerfed in the first place for?

I dont think that perma protection was the problem.

I found a thread where Arenanet mentions the change to Heat sync and why:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/BWE-3-Tempest-Specialization-Changes/first#post5491455

Quote:‘’note: Heat Sync is currently over-performing in its ability to spread all boons to allies. We’ll be looking to narrow down the boons it can spread, to just the Might boon, in order to keep its purpose more clear.’’

and around that time where players discuss the change:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/Please-don-t-change-Heat-Sync/first

Seems that boons like quickness and resistance where the problem.
If so, they could have just removed the boons that they considered to strong like quickness and resistance.

They could limit it to might, fury, regeneration, and swiftness for example, rather than only might.

Those cant be a problem right?

Preferably a few more boons than those though.

The reason why they reduced it to only might was ‘’to give Heat sync a clear purpose’’.
Well it would still have a clear purpose with more boons than might .
As said, they could just remove the boons that are considered to strong.

Signet of inspiration from Mesmer has a clear purpose as well and it shares a bunch of boons. So Heat sync can still have a clear purpose as well when it shares more boons than might.

Yashuoa.9527:

Laraley.7695:

I think it’s hilarious mesmers have a trait that copies all boons on 30 sec cd, but Heat sync got nerfed cause apparently too strong.

Not all boons, but they can copy a lot of boons with it.
Besides the trait they have an utility spell called signet of inspiration, which shares boons too
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Inspiration

nearlight.3064:

I don’t think it would have been too strong at all. If your team stays within range of earth overload you can easily give them permanent protection, and near permanent protection through regular shouts and auras if they kite around the point more. Tempest never had much mightstacking compared to D/D ele so I don’t think that would have been broken, and it would have given armor of earth a new lease on life.

So yeah, why nerf this skill, if you can already permanently maintain protection on allies, the boon that this skill was most likely nerfed in the first place for?

I dont think that perma protection was the problem.

I found a thread where Arenanet mentions the change to Heat sync and why:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/BWE-3-Tempest-Specialization-Changes/first#post5491455

Quote:‘’note: Heat Sync is currently over-performing in its ability to spread all boons to allies. We’ll be looking to narrow down the boons it can spread, to just the Might boon, in order to keep its purpose more clear.’’

and around that time where players discuss the change:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/Please-don-t-change-Heat-Sync/first

Seems that boons like quickness and resistance where the problem.
If so, they could have just removed the boons that they considered to strong like quickness and resistance.

They could limit it to might, fury, regeneration, and swiftness for example, rather than only might.

Those cant be a problem right?

Preferably a few more boons than those though.

The reason why they reduced it to only might was ‘’to give Heat sync a clear purpose’’.
Well it would still have a clear purpose with more boons than might .
As said, they could just remove the boons that are considered to strong.

Signet of inspiration from Mesmer has a clear purpose as well and it shares a bunch of boons. So Heat sync can still have a clear purpose as well when it shares more boons than might.

It actually does copy all boons, the ones listed on that page are just the potential boons that can be gained from the signets passive effect. Of course this makes the gutting of heat sync seem even more unreasonable, since if the problem was the super strong boons like resistance and quickness, ele doesn’t have access to either of those while mesmer can have insane quickness up-time, and a solid amount of resistance, and can still have perma protection with just staff and chaotic dampening.

The difference is in combat to out of combat potential tial. What can the tempest accomplish by blasting a fire field, giving a few auras, vs what Chronomancer can accomplish. Chrono needs targets for the second share, it gets most of its boons from chaos armor (and being hit), and needs the defensive lines. For massive amounts of boon share your just needed to be tempest and run warhorn. Blame the Herald. You could replace his level of boon share without having to camp a legend/attunement. An auramancer of sufficient boon duration would give everything a Herald does, in longer duration, plus vigor, a stronger protection, and auras. Not to mention a better stability share than the road on Jalis (armor of earth ftw).

This is clearly just Crapnet being lazy. They could have just simply put a threshold on the boon duration that can be copied. Out of combat stacking? Didn’t it even come to their minds to just put a threshold instead of nerfing it to the ground?

Eg. Only 2s of Resistance and Quickness can be copied. Only 10s of might (limit 10 stacks), fury, protection and regeneration can be copied and whatnot.

I don’t even see stacking more protection as a problem given that Tempests are able to perma share it as long as people stay in range. It’s not like Heat Sync can cover the whole pvp maps. And as stated over and over again, Ele doesn’t even have access to Quickness and Resistance.

They need to normalized boon sharing effects like heat sync and mez signet effect but remove there abitly to share powerful boons quickness resistances and stab.

Right now only a part boon sharing of 2 boons is not worth it that and the boon of might and fury are easy to get at a perma level form most classes and rune sets.

At the same time full boon shearing is on the level of giving peram effects of the 3 strong boons to the point of needed mez as a class in groups or you will be at such a big disadvantages at all points of GW2 that these effects become mandatory.

Laraley.7695:

I think it’s hilarious mesmers have a trait that copies all boons on 30 sec cd, but Heat sync got nerfed cause apparently too strong.

Mesmers also have the lowest dps output in the game, you know below vanilla necro and ranger.

They are alacrity/quickness bots and if they lost either of those they would not be brought to raids, it’s not like people are stacking them like revenants and eles used to be so you’re whining about the wrong class.

But then again whining about mesmers seems to be the bandwagon of this year.

Zenith.7301:

Laraley.7695:

I think it’s hilarious mesmers have a trait that copies all boons on 30 sec cd, but Heat sync got nerfed cause apparently too strong.

Mesmers also have the lowest dps output in the game, you know below vanilla necro and ranger.

They are alacrity/quickness bots and if they lost either of those they would not be brought to raids, it’s not like people are stacking them like revenants and eles used to be so you’re whining about the wrong class.

But then again whining about mesmers seems to be the bandwagon of this year.

The thing is for ele to get heat sync you need to go down the tempest line and use an off hand of WH giving up the abitly to use any other off hand or staff the main power house of the ele class all for fury / might share something that ele / tempest can give out in large amounts with out giving up any thing. Mez just needs to slot a utility to get the abitly to use the strongest boon effect in the game.

It used to share all boons. That was broken with alacrity from mesmers and quickness from them too, and some other classes. So of course it was nerfed to the ground to just share fury and might…

Instead of the reasonable thing to do, simply limiting it to all boons eles are able to produce.

Fun Fact: Warhorn Fire 5 (Wildfire) used to remove a boon from enemies. That was removed swiftly too.

And with those 2 changes warhorn lost all it really had.

ArthurDent.9538:

It actually does copy all boons, the ones listed on that page are just the potential boons that can be gained from the signets passive effect. Of course this makes the gutting of heat sync seem even more unreasonable, since if the problem was the super strong boons like resistance and quickness, ele doesn’t have access to either of those while mesmer can have insane quickness up-time, and a solid amount of resistance, and can still have perma protection with just staff and chaotic dampening.

Okay thanks for clearing that up. I havent tryed Mesmer with signet of inspiration much. I knew they could give quickness and resistance to allies (without signet), but got confused about the tooltip being able to give more than the ones listed.

Maybe the problem they saw in the old Heat sync was that a Mesmer/other class could share quickness and resistance to an ele and he could share it back?

Kyon.9735:

They could have just simply put a threshold on the boon duration that can be copied. Out of combat stacking? Didn’t it even come to their minds to just put a threshold instead of nerfing it to the ground?

Eg. Only 2s of Resistance and Quickness can be copied. Only 10s of might (limit 10 stacks), fury, protection and regeneration can be copied and whatnot.

I don’t even see stacking more protection as a problem given that Tempests are able to perma share it as long as people stay in range. It’s not like Heat Sync can cover the whole pvp maps. And as stated over and over again, Ele doesn’t even have access to Quickness and Resistance.

Even though us Eles dont have access to quickness and resistance, someone could give it to us and with the old Heat sync we could share it back. Maybe they found stuff like that to be a problem if Ele and Mesmer do some pingpong share?

Also it can be that they considere it okay for Mesmer to have stuff like sharing ALL boons, because mesmer dmg is really low in such support builds.

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

It used to share all boons. That was broken with alacrity from mesmers and quickness from them too, and some other classes. So of course it was nerfed to the ground to just share fury and might…

Instead of the reasonable thing to do, simply limiting it to all boons eles are able to produce.

Fun Fact: Warhorn Fire 5 (Wildfire) used to remove a boon from enemies. That was removed swiftly too.

And with those 2 changes warhorn lost all it really had.

Warhorn Fire 5 never removed boons from enemies it said it did in one preview that was highly subject to changes. Once the beata even the first one came out it did not remove boons. Even in the video of that preview you can clearly see WH fire 5 not removing boons from the mob.

Jski.6180:

Zenith.7301:

Laraley.7695:

I think it’s hilarious mesmers have a trait that copies all boons on 30 sec cd, but Heat sync got nerfed cause apparently too strong.

Mesmers also have the lowest dps output in the game, you know below vanilla necro and ranger.

They are alacrity/quickness bots and if they lost either of those they would not be brought to raids, it’s not like people are stacking them like revenants and eles used to be so you’re whining about the wrong class.

But then again whining about mesmers seems to be the bandwagon of this year.

The thing is for ele to get heat sync you need to go down the tempest line and use an off hand of WH giving up the abitly to use any other off hand or staff the main power house of the ele class all for fury / might share something that ele / tempest can give out in large amounts with out giving up any thing. Mez just needs to slot a utility to get the abitly to use the strongest boon effect in the game.

A dagger/warhorn tempest still does far more DPS than mesmer. I don’t think you grasp how low sustained DPS for mesmer is.

Standard full damage phantasm, a build chronos can’t even run, was the highest mesmer dps build. It does a potential of 12-13k DPS. It’s that pitiful. It also doesn’t have much in the way of cleave, compoletely single target with iswordsman.

I main both ele and mesmer. Vastly different classes. In fractal 50 sometimes I could not even bring my mesmer because people would rather have a guardian who reflected just as well if not better and had similar quickness uptime. It wasn’t until chrono where a mesmer became desirable over guardian for content where using portals wasn’t a thing. Meanwhile my ele is always in demand.

And come this xpac ele is still in some demand, just not as much because Anet was happy to create a class even more OP, the Revenant and Engineer, who bring the damage of the ele but with far more survivability and unique group utility other than might and fury stacking.

So the truth is your complaints should be aimed at the utter dominance of revenants and engineers as DPS classes over a mesmer out of all things, who’s serving the role of a glorified buffbot.

Zenith.7301:

Jski.6180:

Zenith.7301:

Laraley.7695:

I think it’s hilarious mesmers have a trait that copies all boons on 30 sec cd, but Heat sync got nerfed cause apparently too strong.

Mesmers also have the lowest dps output in the game, you know below vanilla necro and ranger.

They are alacrity/quickness bots and if they lost either of those they would not be brought to raids, it’s not like people are stacking them like revenants and eles used to be so you’re whining about the wrong class.

But then again whining about mesmers seems to be the bandwagon of this year.

The thing is for ele to get heat sync you need to go down the tempest line and use an off hand of WH giving up the abitly to use any other off hand or staff the main power house of the ele class all for fury / might share something that ele / tempest can give out in large amounts with out giving up any thing. Mez just needs to slot a utility to get the abitly to use the strongest boon effect in the game.

A dagger/warhorn tempest still does far more DPS than mesmer. I don’t think you grasp how low sustained DPS for mesmer is.

Standard full damage phantasm, a build chronos can’t even run, was the highest mesmer dps build. It does a potential of 12-13k DPS. It’s that pitiful. It also doesn’t have much in the way of cleave, compoletely single target with iswordsman.

I main both ele and mesmer. Vastly different classes. In fractal 50 sometimes I could not even bring my mesmer because people would rather have a guardian who reflected just as well if not better and had similar quickness uptime. It wasn’t until chrono where a mesmer became desirable over guardian for content where using portals wasn’t a thing. Meanwhile my ele is always in demand.

And come this xpac ele is still in some demand, just not as much because Anet was happy to create a class even more OP, the Revenant and Engineer, who bring the damage of the ele but with far more survivability and unique group utility other than might and fury stacking.

So the truth is your complaints should be aimed at the utter dominance of revenants and engineers as DPS classes over a mesmer out of all things, who’s serving the role of a glorified buffbot.

This is not a question about the class over all its about the effects of boon shearing and how it simply brakes the game to have strong boon effect on a perma level. If you want to get into looking at a class over all we need to talk about cdr that mez has blunt doable effects the abitly to wepon swap and high level hp / armor / invariability up time for a mages class.

The game of GW2 is balanced arone the ideal that you cant have these boons up all the time and to have them up all the time will only lead to the boons them self getting nerfed into the ground. Quickness at one point was 100% speed up stab at one point had no charges system resistances is still to new to say what going to happen to that.
Its happened in the past and your and other ppl of mez unwillingness to gives up an know op effect will only harm the current effects of boons.

The thing is mez/chron has the abitly to give out these strong boons on its own with out boon share but its able to doable that out put due to its boon shearing copy what is on the mez/chron. Its ok for the class to have all of these boons its ok for a lot of classes but to have them at the duration level that a mez/chron can out put is inexcusable and border line exploitative.

Jski.6180:

Zenith.7301:

Jski.6180:

Zenith.7301:

Laraley.7695:

I think it’s hilarious mesmers have a trait that copies all boons on 30 sec cd, but Heat sync got nerfed cause apparently too strong.

Mesmers also have the lowest dps output in the game, you know below vanilla necro and ranger.

They are alacrity/quickness bots and if they lost either of those they would not be brought to raids, it’s not like people are stacking them like revenants and eles used to be so you’re whining about the wrong class.

But then again whining about mesmers seems to be the bandwagon of this year.

The thing is for ele to get heat sync you need to go down the tempest line and use an off hand of WH giving up the abitly to use any other off hand or staff the main power house of the ele class all for fury / might share something that ele / tempest can give out in large amounts with out giving up any thing. Mez just needs to slot a utility to get the abitly to use the strongest boon effect in the game.

A dagger/warhorn tempest still does far more DPS than mesmer. I don’t think you grasp how low sustained DPS for mesmer is.

Standard full damage phantasm, a build chronos can’t even run, was the highest mesmer dps build. It does a potential of 12-13k DPS. It’s that pitiful. It also doesn’t have much in the way of cleave, compoletely single target with iswordsman.

I main both ele and mesmer. Vastly different classes. In fractal 50 sometimes I could not even bring my mesmer because people would rather have a guardian who reflected just as well if not better and had similar quickness uptime. It wasn’t until chrono where a mesmer became desirable over guardian for content where using portals wasn’t a thing. Meanwhile my ele is always in demand.

And come this xpac ele is still in some demand, just not as much because Anet was happy to create a class even more OP, the Revenant and Engineer, who bring the damage of the ele but with far more survivability and unique group utility other than might and fury stacking.

So the truth is your complaints should be aimed at the utter dominance of revenants and engineers as DPS classes over a mesmer out of all things, who’s serving the role of a glorified buffbot.

This is not a question about the class over all its about the effects of boon shearing and how it simply brakes the game to have strong boon effect on a perma level. If you want to get into looking at a class over all we need to talk about cdr that mez has blunt doable effects the abitly to wepon swap and high level hp / armor / invariability up time for a mages class.

The game of GW2 is balanced arone the ideal that you cant have these boons up all the time and to have them up all the time will only lead to the boons them self getting nerfed into the ground. Quickness at one point was 100% speed up stab at one point had no charges system resistances is still to new to say what going to happen to that.
Its happened in the past and your and other ppl of mez unwillingness to gives up an know op effect will only harm the current effects of boons.

The thing is mez/chron has the abitly to give out these strong boons on its own with out boon share but its able to doable that out put due to its boon shearing copy what is on the mez/chron. Its ok for the class to have all of these boons its ok for a lot of classes but to have them at the duration level that a mez/chron can out put is inexcusable and border line exploitative.

According to you. Boons need to be nerfed anyways, the power of boons relative to conditions has been utterly lopsided since release. You cry about quickness/alacrity as if 25 stacks of might and perma fury and 50% increased boon duration for the group hadn’t been a game-breaking problem that has existed for 3 years.

And it’s cute you don’t want to deal with the overall picture, because the overall picture is HOW classes get balanced. Who cares if mesmers excel at boon share if their damage is abysmal, worse than a tempest ele wearing zealot armor or a tank revenant.

I’m all for nerfing alacrity/quickness as long as we nerf ele/revenant/engineer DPS down to the level of everybody else.

And we kill ele fire and water field monopoly. Persisting Flames, Glint revenant perma might/fury.

And meteor shower on large hitbox bosses as well.

Zenith.7301:

Jski.6180:

Zenith.7301:

Jski.6180:

Zenith.7301:

Laraley.7695:

I think it’s hilarious mesmers have a trait that copies all boons on 30 sec cd, but Heat sync got nerfed cause apparently too strong.

Mesmers also have the lowest dps output in the game, you know below vanilla necro and ranger.

They are alacrity/quickness bots and if they lost either of those they would not be brought to raids, it’s not like people are stacking them like revenants and eles used to be so you’re whining about the wrong class.

But then again whining about mesmers seems to be the bandwagon of this year.

The thing is for ele to get heat sync you need to go down the tempest line and use an off hand of WH giving up the abitly to use any other off hand or staff the main power house of the ele class all for fury / might share something that ele / tempest can give out in large amounts with out giving up any thing. Mez just needs to slot a utility to get the abitly to use the strongest boon effect in the game.

A dagger/warhorn tempest still does far more DPS than mesmer. I don’t think you grasp how low sustained DPS for mesmer is.

Standard full damage phantasm, a build chronos can’t even run, was the highest mesmer dps build. It does a potential of 12-13k DPS. It’s that pitiful. It also doesn’t have much in the way of cleave, compoletely single target with iswordsman.

I main both ele and mesmer. Vastly different classes. In fractal 50 sometimes I could not even bring my mesmer because people would rather have a guardian who reflected just as well if not better and had similar quickness uptime. It wasn’t until chrono where a mesmer became desirable over guardian for content where using portals wasn’t a thing. Meanwhile my ele is always in demand.

And come this xpac ele is still in some demand, just not as much because Anet was happy to create a class even more OP, the Revenant and Engineer, who bring the damage of the ele but with far more survivability and unique group utility other than might and fury stacking.

So the truth is your complaints should be aimed at the utter dominance of revenants and engineers as DPS classes over a mesmer out of all things, who’s serving the role of a glorified buffbot.

This is not a question about the class over all its about the effects of boon shearing and how it simply brakes the game to have strong boon effect on a perma level. If you want to get into looking at a class over all we need to talk about cdr that mez has blunt doable effects the abitly to wepon swap and high level hp / armor / invariability up time for a mages class.

The game of GW2 is balanced arone the ideal that you cant have these boons up all the time and to have them up all the time will only lead to the boons them self getting nerfed into the ground. Quickness at one point was 100% speed up stab at one point had no charges system resistances is still to new to say what going to happen to that.
Its happened in the past and your and other ppl of mez unwillingness to gives up an know op effect will only harm the current effects of boons.

The thing is mez/chron has the abitly to give out these strong boons on its own with out boon share but its able to doable that out put due to its boon shearing copy what is on the mez/chron. Its ok for the class to have all of these boons its ok for a lot of classes but to have them at the duration level that a mez/chron can out put is inexcusable and border line exploitative.

According to you. Boons need to be nerfed anyways, the power of boons relative to conditions has been utterly lopsided since release. You cry about quickness/alacrity as if 25 stacks of might and perma fury and 50% increased boon duration for the group hadn’t been a game-breaking problem that has existed for 3 years.

And it’s cute you don’t want to deal with the overall picture, because the overall picture is HOW classes get balanced. Who cares if mesmers excel at boon share if their damage is abysmal, worse than a tempest ele wearing zealot armor or a tank revenant.

I’m all for nerfing alacrity/quickness as long as we nerf ele/revenant/engineer DPS down to the level of everybody else.

And we kill ele fire and water field monopoly. Persisting Flames, Glint revenant perma might/fury.

And meteor shower on large hitbox bosses as well.

Alacrity cant be boon share and is not a boon to start with that is a subject on its own. Quickness stab and resistances are the problems becuse they are hard counters to a lot of effects and are made with the ideal of low duration out of all of the boons in the game but letting ppl start to get doable duration from boon shearing that mez had brakes there balancing.

You do not look at the mez class it self solo becuse the game is NOT balanced arone one players this is a team game and support effects are the true name of the game. That the problme with tempest heat sync the fact that its only 2 boons boons that most classes give out in an aoe manor. What is 30 sec more of fury when you allready have 1 min of it? What is 13 stacks of might when you have 25 allready? Every thing in the game gives you these 2 buffs at least you could let heat sync give out the other non powerfull boons if the tempest has them on it self.

The powerful boons should not be something you get from all over the placse and they should not be something you can stack permaly it is game braking and will only nerf the boons at the end of the day. Vigor is an example of this it was once a near powerful boon with 100% reg effect on it but every one had it all the time and where unwilling to give it up at a perma level so the boon it self got nerfed now its more of a minor boon. Same thing happen with might it use to give more power / condition dmg but every one had it all the time so it too got nerfed. What you want is for mez to keep its perma powerful boon up times at the cost of the boons them self.

That the truth of it you nerf how ppl generators boons or you nerf the boons them self take your pick. The game cant be balanced as long as some groups can have perma quickness stab or resistances and others cant with out the “right” comp (something GW2 is not about).

Zenith.7301
Laraley.7695:
I think it’s hilarious mesmers have a trait that copies all boons on 30 sec cd, but Heat sync got nerfed cause apparently too strong.
Mesmers also have the lowest dps output in the game, you know below vanilla necro and ranger.
They are alacrity/quickness bots and if they lost either of those they would not be brought to raids, it’s not like people are stacking them like revenants and eles used to be so you’re whining about the wrong class.
But then again whining about mesmers seems to be the bandwagon of this year.

So let me add to the rant, Thief has an ELITE that has a 1+ second stun, mesmers have a kitten signet that has 3 second stun.

To say nothing of the stealth they wrongly possess. But all this is off-topic.