Guild Wars 2

Strength runes seem to be commonly recommended for D/D Ele, e.g. on metabattle.com:
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Elementalist_-_D/D_Roamer

That makes sense, given how well we synergize with Might stacking mechanics.

I’m planning on running Signet of Restoration for the sustain and -40% condition duration food.

Given that, I’m wondering what your thoughts are on going with Hoelbrak instead of Strength runes for a 0/2/0/6/6 build.

Strength runes + food:

• +75% effective Might duration (incl +30% from trait line)
• -40% condition duration
• +5% damage

Hoelbrak runes + food:

• +60% effective Might duration (incl +30% from trait line)
• -60% condition duration
• better when-hit proc Might (10s duration vs 5s)

I’m leaning towards Hoelbrak due to how much condition spamming there is in WvW, but I’m curious to hear your thoughts.

Hoelbrak is better due to the condi meta. Even in sPvP.

Condi builds use +40% condi duration food anyway which balances your food. Personally I went for Hoelbrak and not regretting it. Even in sPvP I take it unless my team already has 2 bunkers or the enemy does not have a necro or engi. I really dont miss the 5% bonus from strength.

Yes, since strength runes were nerfed! And if -40% con food is pricey just used that -20 condi and %20 damage while stun, knockback or knockdown via Loaf of Saffron Bread. It’s cheap and super effective in wvw.

I used to use strength but switched to hoelbreak awhile ago. Don’t regret it at all. The extra 5% damage is nothing compared to the survivability the -condi duration gives you. Everyone and their dog is running some kind of easy mode condi cheese build these days anyway, so you need the – condi if you want to survive while roaming. I even keep running into condi guardians with perplexity runes. never thought i’d see that happen.

One needs to consider that those cheesy condition builds are a counter to D/D ele. PU mesmer, dire condition thief and perplexity engineer are pretty much unbeatable. Metabattle explicitally states that those builds are direct counters. So instead of trying to fight an uphill battle against cheeseplay, I would rather take as much condi remove to cleanse the first burst, /laugh and then simply run away.

I still have a hard time understanding how one of the classes (if not THE class) with the most condi-clears in the game (plus superior healing and sustain) can claim that condi-builds are a hardcounter/direct counter for them.

Strikes me as odd as when I see Warriors claiming that you absolutely need 25k+ HP and around 3k armor for solo-roaming in WvW.

Saturn we do have condi clears like a lot, now the problem here is confusion and the fact that sure u can clear fast but they can put more condis on you faster than what u can clear them. Then once u switch to water and they go a put torment, confusion and chilled that’s pretty much gg. That’s why they called counters.

Neh you can win 1v1 against all the condition metas and everything in existence when full stack with wvw offensive and defensive guard buffs and food. It’s skill base and believe me you can beat them all.
If they jump you when taking a camp so you are fighting npcs and a PU Mesmer and you stay in the camp and lose that’s one story. Or you get jump by 3 thieves and down 1 , well good for you. Keep in mind if a bunch of people are camping you with team havoc team builds you will die. Even two very coordinate metas will kill you in time.

Another day was fighting a d/d ele got it down to 50% hp, a thief jumped me and burst him to down state ele is back to 75% hp. Then a mediation umped me full stacked and evade fought of both them then a hammer warrior jumped in got me down to 25% hp. I spammed cantrips getting around 45% hp back and made a run for it before a zerg jump down from enemy starting point and chewed me down. My ele exploded in a second following three people angrily jump on my body from SF server.

Ah the life of an elementalist roamer….. Also roaming means solo so if you saw more than one person even in the background of a vid well… not roaming.

It’s true u can win fight against these types of build but were talking about when u and the enemy knows how to play with the build. In those situations they have the upper hand. Anyway to OP hoelbrak all the way.

So… I spent a great deal of time roaming with my ele, and I never had any issue with condi builds, unless I was fighting in an outnumbered situation or against mesmers (I’m pretty bad at targeting…) But, I don’t use -condi duration food or hoelbrak runes.

It might seem odd, but for a long time I’ve run rage runes (only very recently switching to strength.) If I’m about to fight someone who’s condi, I make sure I’m running D/F instead of D/D, and have cleansing fire and aura of restoration as utilities. Very few people expect to see a D/F ele and as a result very few people know how to fight them. Most engi skills are useless while swirling winds is up (same with most mesmer clone attacks,); CC is pretty essential to condi-bunker type builds; and with the extra 6 condi-clear while still having an invulnerability is good. Confusion never causes me trouble because of a high healing power, so I only clear it when it gets to 7-10. Clear poison as soon as possible, and torment if it’s more than like, 4 stacks (depending on how much damage it’s doing.)

Usually in the worst case scenarios of these duels, no one dies. But that’s better than getting completely melted by condis IMO.

As far as zerging goes, I’ve had little to no difficulty at all with condis. Use ether renewal there and you’re pretty much fine.

I seriously hope that in the expansion ele will get an abundant amount of resistance boon. Then maybe we wont be so hard countered by condi builds and not have to run that crappy diamond skin trait that makes us useless against any non condi build. Not being forced to spec for max condi clears, and take holebrak runes and the super expensive lemongrass food, and STILL be hard countered despite all that would be nice.

Nikkinella not being forced to spec for max condi clears would be awesome. Just imagine the possibility’s.

In my opinion strength went from better than hoelbrak (when it had 7% modifier) to equally good (5% modifier) to worse (battle sigil/might nerf).

The one thing I feel people don’t appreciate enough about lemongrass/hoelbrak synergy (judging from this thread), isn’kittens ability to “counter condition users”, but rather to get rid of what I call trash condis. In my opinion hoelbrak is a little overrated as an ‘anti-condi’ rune on its own.

A condi player generally plays with 60-70 percent condi duration (some go up to 100). Say such a player uses a 10s base duration condition. His spec will boost that up to 16-17, your lemongrass+hoelbrak brings that back down to 10-11. Overall that means you only reduced the duration of his 16 second condition by 37.5%.

A non condi player will often have 0 condi duration. Meaning a 10 second condi applied by them will get reduced by the full 60 percent. Nearly every power spec in the game does however rely on some extent on conditions to get the upper hand. Being so resistant to these conditions is what can allow a dd ele to go wherever he pleases.

Couple (dramatic) examples of how much this freedom of movement can change matchups.

- You meet a power ranger. He entangles you. Entangle is a 1.5s immob every 1 second. With -60 percent condition duration that’s 0.6s per 1 second. You dodge out of his entangle after the first pulse. (Even a 30 percent condi duration read the wind power ranger)

- You meet a good thief. Over the years of fighting eles he’s learned to spike you with the chill after you leave water. You die a slow and painful death being chilled for 10 seconds as the seconds until your water attunement tick by agonizingly slow. Except you don’t cause it’s just a 4 second chill now.

- Mesmer sword immobs you. 3 clones come running at you. Nope 2s immob→.8s immob

- You walked through an ele ring of fire 3 times in the heat of a battle. 15s burn → 6s burn

Basically all this stuff that every power spec relies on to get its combos going or to keep you at a distance just falls off you, allowing you to save your cleanses so much more efficiently for the actual condition users. Even blinds will often be expiring before you clear them with a miss.

TL;DR: Hoelbrak is great, but not so much for countering full condi specs.

Should be good enough for 1v1 in wvw and fight off a 1v3
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fFEQJAoYhcMqb25wxBd0AiAB5ukqRBlfHTB-TFDEABRpkwKlYxpHIR1L2SJoUKFk4EColyg20QAwDCoRVUiZ/hAAIA7sODgn7cn7cn7cEDQRA-w