Guild Wars 2

Hi all. We were 2 vs 1 elementalist bunker, and we coudn’t kill it. even 3 vs 1 was really hard. please understand it shoudn’t be supposed to be like this !
courtesy of the thieves guild and all the nerfs we took so far.

Why stop at elementalist bunker. Every bunker should be nerfed. Why stop at bunker, every class cannon should be nerfed. Why stop at class canon, every class that is not the elementalist and ranger should be nerfed. Why stop there, Uskills should be nerfed and brought to the level of the rangers.

DanH.5879:

Hi all. We were 2 vs 1 elementalist bunker, and we coudn’t kill it. even 3 vs 1 was really hard. please understand it shoudn’t be supposed to be like this !
courtesy of the thieves guild and all the nerfs we took so far.

But on the other hand – solo thief killing 2-3 or more ppl is ok?

duszy.4612:

But on the other hand – solo thief killing 2-3 or more ppl is ok?

Arguing that something broken should remain broken to counter the other broken crap in the game is not a good argument.

Bunkers are way too survivable right now, just like some of the burst is too much or too easy. The balance needs to be reigned in at both ends of the extremes.

DanH.5879:

Hi all. We were 2 vs 1 elementalist bunker, and we coudn’t kill it. even 3 vs 1 was really hard. please understand it shoudn’t be supposed to be like this !
courtesy of the thieves guild and all the nerfs we took so far.

Killing a bunker ele isn’t that hard if you know what you’re doing. As a 2v1, you should DEFINITELY be able to take it down.

Protips: Don’t rely on condition damage if possible, healing Ele’s have a crapton of condition removal (possibly the best in the game). Conditions are fine against them, but burst is better.

Wait for them to use their heals, THEN burst, healing Ele’s get lots of regen but it stacks in duration (not intensity) and is therefore susceptible to burst.

Try to get them to waste their dodge rolls (weakness is great against them), without dodging they can’t combo their water fields or get the cleansing wave heal from evasive arcana. Also, geyser (the most oft used water field for combo’ing) is only up for 2 seconds on a 20second cooldown, try to CC/snare/knockdown once they cast it. Even if they use a stunbreaker to break your CC, they’ll STILL likely miss the evasive arcana roll into geyser simply because the skill doesn’t last very long.

your people must not be any of the glass cannon types of builds, if you are a tank the ele will outlast you because of their heals, the bunker guardian and ele together are nearly unkillable

1. we were 2x condition thieves, and NO, we dont have stuns.
2.we cond builds should have NO chance to take a bunker down ???
also our burst was nerfed to the ground, so, ALSO bunkers should be nerfed to compensate !

DanH.5879:

also our burst was nerfed to the ground, so, ALSO bunkers should be nerfed to compensate !

Nothing to see here, move on

Instead of crying for a nerf after one fight… why not learn to work with your partner more effectively and learn from the mistakes you made during the fight… study your opponent and develop a strategy.

Inflexibility leads to impotence in any type of player versus player activity.

The outcome of 1 fight is not statistically significant enough to warrant a nerf…

no, how about i receive PM that “hahaha you can’t kill me 1 vs 1, never !”
and i fail to capture the point because of that (because when he stands on point i cant capture), and my team looses ??
IS THAT FAIR ?
…i thought skill matters, but the is NOT the case…

1. we were 2x condition thieves, and NO, we dont have stuns.

So you got countered by a condition removal build, tough cookies. Another class specced almost exclusively to counter the build you’re both using together. Sounds quite inflexible to me (as bluewanders so eloquently stated), yet here you are crying for a nerf…

2.we cond builds should have NO chance to take a bunker down ???

No, condition builds can take down a guardian bunker just fine. Ele’s specialize in condition removal, imagine how that Necromancer feels when facing us. Next time have one of your thieves spec for burst dmg and watch that Ele drop pronto.

also our burst was nerfed to the ground, so, ALSO bunkers should be nerfed to compensate !

LOL, that’s a good one. Thief burst was in no way “nerfed to the ground,” that’s so much hyperbole it’s laughable. You lost the ability to stack 50% dmg with backstab, but gained 15% more damage on FOUR OTHER ATTACKS in your cycle. There were thieves (well, good ones anyway) claiming the change to Assassin’s signet was a BUFF!!

DanH.5879:

no, how about i receive PM that “hahaha you can’t kill me 1 vs 1, never !”
and i fail to capture the point because of that (because when he stands on point i cant capture), and my team looses ??
IS THAT FAIR ?
…i thought skill matters, but the is NOT the case…

Bunkers are rough to kill 1v1, it’s what the class archetype is DESIGNED for. They shouldn’t be able to kill you either. And this is a conquest game, learn to adapt. Next time bring a friend without the same spec as you (and one that the bunker counters).

And to be sure, skill still matters very much. But it doesn’t sound like the skill was evenly balanced in this case…

Stop whining.

Were you and your friend both lv80 with full exotics? If so, then, as much as I hate it when people say this, learn to play. If not, then nothing to see here. Running to the forums to scream nerf because you got spanked in a single encounter is simply embarrassing. Learn from the encounter, and adapt.

I have both a bunker Guardian and a Healing Ele, and I can swear that we’re not invincible. Surviving is what I like to do, so that’s how I build myself, even if it takes a few ages to kill someone. I have had my face beaten in 1v1 on several occasions, and there has been several occasions where I’ve won a 1v4.

Heck, last night, my friend and I went against 6 players just for a good lol. We honestly expected to die, but we killed them all.

there was pvp dude in mists. so, when we spike and kill ppl in 2 seconds IS a problem. If we also die in 2 seconds is NOT a problem. If we CAN’T KILL a bunker, is also NOT a problem. wtf ?

I agree that ele bunker builds need to be nerfed. I also think all other profession bunkers need a nerf. This MUST be slight, not destroying the build altogether.

I also think to compensate ele’s should get a 10-20% damage buff or vast improvements to earth air and fire trait lines.

Finally that thief and Mesmer get further Nerf to their bursts and perhaps overall damage. Yes they have been slightly nerfed already but its not even close to enough.

DanH.5879:

Hi all. We were 2 vs 1 elementalist bunker, and we coudn’t kill it. even 3 vs 1 was really hard. please understand it shoudn’t be supposed to be like this !
courtesy of the thieves guild and all the nerfs we took so far.

Your obviously playing your class wrong then.

also, you want a nerf on a class thats you couldn’t kill? really……

All i am going to say is, Learn on how to counter things/problems, that is the only way to progress as a player and in PvP.

:)

Edit: Play a ele, and you will see why alot go bunker builds, the cloth mechanics in GW2 is pretty lame in a way that eles are uber squishy.

and trying to say “We got nerfed, so this should be nerfed also” is just…..a lame excuse.

as i said and as someone else said, Learn, study & Research. (Not saying that in a bad way, but it is the only thing that will help you out….)

@DanH have you played an ele? If so, to what level? I assure you, the bunker build takes more effort than your glass cannon thief build. There’s an ARRAY of skills that we have to use in order to kill someone rather than just spamming a few keys.

I’m glad you couldn’t kill this ele. Ya know what? There’s going to be a few other players you can’t face roll in the game. Instead of QQing to the forums, why not adapt? Because I gurantee, that’s what WE are doing. Now go practice kid before it’s your bedtime.

Obvious troll is obvious.

Bunkers don’t need nerfing, sheesh. If a player wants to spec fully into defense for the purpose of survival, there’s nothing wrong with that. They should be rewarded for being defensive and have middling DPS, just like players who spec for damage can expect to see big numbers, but fall flat to a few attacks.

Bunker Ele is slightly too strong and needs a mild nerf. Same goes for Guardian bunkers, and to a lesser extent Necro and Engi bunkers. Key word: mild. In Ele’s case, Evasive Arcana’s water effect is probably a bit too strong and is likely to be toned down a bit at some point.

As for glass cannon theives, don’t worry; they’ll keep getting nerfed. I almost feel kind of sorry for them at this point.

mouse.1689:

Bunker Ele is slightly too strong and needs a mild nerf. Same goes for Guardian bunkers, and to a lesser extent Necro and Engi bunkers. Key word: mild. In Ele’s case, Evasive Arcana’s water effect is probably a bit too strong and is likely to be toned down a bit at some point.

As for glass cannon theives, don’t worry; they’ll keep getting nerfed. I almost feel kind of sorry for them at this point.

Bunkers, specifically the Ele bunker, should ONLY be nerfed if Anet is willing to provide increased damage output as compensation. People spec guardian bunker because the game is conquest. People spec Ele bunker because we fail at being a long-ranged damage dealer and we’re left without an option. Ask 10 Ele’s if they’d prefer to be able to nuke like a thief in exchange for an awesome bunker spec and I bet you get 9 of them saying “Yes Please!” (strangely, i’m not one of them, i rolled Ele specifically to heal/support. I like that class type).

And regarding feeling bad for thieves, I don’t feel bad for them. They ruined it themselves when everyone and their brother rolled fotm backstabbin’ thieves for sPvP and causing the PvP forum boards to light up with “nerf please” threads.

As it stands, the game is conquest and Bunkers are slightly too good at their job, which is to keep people from neutralizing points. There are a few ways to fix this problem:

• Make spike damage builds do more damage. (This would be a complete nightmare from a balance perspective, as it would further marginalize builds which focus on a balance between survivability and damage.)

• Change conquest gameplay so that a point will neutralize if one team has more players on a point than the other. Thus, even if 2 players couldn’t kill a bunker, they could neutralize a point if he’s the only defender. (ANet seems resistant to this change for some reason.)

• Slightly nerf bunker builds.

They seem inclined to go with option 3. Also, I contend that bunker is not the Ele’s only viable role in tPvP. S/D makes a very solid Roamer/Group Skirmisher. D/D Auramancers make amazing Roamers/Group Skirmishers as well. In fact, a lot of top level teams are running 2 D/D Aura sharing Eles right now.

The Ele is not a ranged nuker outside of WvW. If you’re looking to play that role in s/tPvP, Ele is not for you. But to suggest that they don’t have a viable damage dealing role in sPvP is just not accurate.

Where are people getting the notion the devs are going to nerf the bunker build?

RawkFist.1935:

Where are people getting the notion the devs are going to nerf the bunker build?

how about the unfair advantage to keep the point for your team ???

“i will tank all the other team until you have time to get here and help” … uh ….lol ???

Just to make it clear mouse.1689, I’m not arguing here with you, I tend to agree with most everything you’re saying. My point regarding Anet needing to buff damage if they nerf bunker Ele’s is essentially targeted at staff Ele’s only, as they don’t bring much else to the table in tPvP outside of the occasional AOE (WvW is a whole ’nother story). D/D and S/D roamer builds are perfectly viable, but not as popular at the staff bunker.

And regarding your list of the 3 fixes, I actually would prefer it if they went option #2 (but made point neutralization slightly slower when the controlling team is still on it), as that would essentially make full bunker builds somewhat obsolete (and shift them out of the meta). If two people could neutralize a point without actually killing the bunker, it would mean that the bunker couldn’t do the intended job as well, and you’d see more folks shifting to moderate-bunkerish-builds for point holding but with viable damage to ensure they could drop someone when help arrived.

This way if someone wants to go “you can’t kill me, but I can’t kill anything” spec, they still can, but it wouldn’t help the team as much as someone speccing for “I’m tough to kill, and you better look out when help arrives…”

{for the record: I love playing support/healer/bunker build. I played Disc Priest back in my WoW days, and specifically rolled an Elementalist to fulfill this role. I’d hate to see it nerfed, but I understand why they’re considering it. In addition, I think another good “fix” for overbunkering would be to add game modes to PvP, bunkers aren’t particularly useful in capture the flag, or at least far less so than in conquest, and would force meta to adapt.}

Maxzero.4032:

Obvious troll is obvious.

My thought exactly, come on people two condition specced characters failing to kill a condition removal build…

RawkFist.1935:

Where are people getting the notion the devs are going to nerf the bunker build?

I’d like the answer to this as well

blackgoat.5172:

RawkFist.1935:

Where are people getting the notion the devs are going to nerf the bunker build?

I’d like the answer to this as well

The developers have stated that they are looking into it, sorry I don’t have a link.

{Aside, sorry mods, my bad}

If they nerf the bunker builds, they’ll have to nerf the high burst builds too. Bunkers came about as a result of Thieves being able to 4-5 shot people in about a second without any notice.

Here are a couple links where developers have alluded to looking at nerfs for bunker eles. They have also acknowledged that damage output is low for eles as well (specifically D/D).

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Quick-update/page/3#post354773

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Quick-update/first#post347588

Edit: You may have to scroll down some on that first link to find the post. Looks like they’re looking closely and recognize that there may be some changes that need to be made. But at least it looks like they’re also looking to strengthen some of the weak areas as well.

The only thing i hate about people saying “nerf bunkers” is when they have no clue what makes the bunkers so strong since every single bunker gets his strenght from a different area.
For example if you were to nerf armor, you would not hit a single bunker and only make the squishier professions more squishy.
Instead look at what makes them strong. Fo example an bunker ele. his armor is avarage, nothing to drastic and the dmg reduction isnt that great, it has no obvious shield/block spells that stand out and no way it can get an 100% protection uptime. The escape possiblities are great but still dont explain the bunkerness. Now you will notice there is only one thing left, very obviously the healing gained from evasive arcana being able to activate so many times combined with an amulet wih healing power makes this bunker an effecive one.

If some1 were to do that with all apparently according to you guys “OP” bunkerbuilds, arenanet would get something usefull from these posts.
Atm i feel like its yust randomly trowing rocks at defensive builds in general even though only thing it will do if they follow these posts is nerf the bunker, and 1000 perfectly normal viable builds with it

I know almost noone will read this and even fewer will actually save this in their brains. But being more precise, even if its yust an ragepost, will help you so much more.

Thanks anyone for reading and cya later flies away

:D

I’ll take a nerf to bunker builds IF they buff our damage to what it should be.

I agree with him, bunkers shouldn’t be around. But please to give back at least part of our damage.

DanH.5879:

Hi all. We were 2 vs 1 elementalist bunker, and we coudn’t kill it. even 3 vs 1 was really hard. please understand it shoudn’t be supposed to be like this !
courtesy of the thieves guild and all the nerfs we took so far.

I do not know if u 3 were fighting me, but last night I fought some really bad thieves… Being a condition / healing ele, necros are my bane. They just condition me till I use all or most my condition removals, then transfer my conditions back to me ans convert my boons to conditions. On the other hand, the thieves I fought were trying to venom / condition me to death, kept stunning themselves with my aura and never tried to run away with shortbow. If these were you and ur friend, this is a l2p issue, because spamming 3-4 buttons isnt going to work on a good ele.

mouse.1689:

Bunker Ele is slightly too strong and needs a mild nerf. Same goes for Guardian bunkers, and to a lesser extent Necro and Engi bunkers. Key word: mild. In Ele’s case, Evasive Arcana’s water effect is probably a bit too strong and is likely to be toned down a bit at some point.

As for glass cannon theives, don’t worry; they’ll keep getting nerfed. I almost feel kind of sorry for them at this point.

I hope that the water effect is not reduced from evasive arcana, I run tankish bunker spec, with dagger dagger, and the dodge heal is all I can do to survive. Perhaps removing the combo finisher from water only. So to do super heals you need to double dodge out of water, or dodge water for the water heal.

Also @ DanH, try an elementalist out. Play through some of the builds in sPvP, find an empty server and join it with your thief friend and duel. I’m sure he’ll beat you 100% of the time, until you spec for our anti thief build which happens to be our bunker build as well. Btw, heads up for you, our glass cannon build, is glass and no cannon unless you play it right then it is still sup-par

DanH.5879:

Hi all. We were 2 vs 1 elementalist bunker, and we coudn’t kill it. even 3 vs 1 was really hard. please understand it shoudn’t be supposed to be like this !
courtesy of the thieves guild and all the nerfs we took so far.

I agree. If it takes more than one person to kill an Ele then that person has LTP issues in a very big way.

I gotta admit I actually chuckled at this post, and I it takes A LOT to get a laugh out of me!

DanH.5879:

courtesy of the thieves guild and all the nerfs we took so far.

You know, I actually missed this part the first time I read it. I’d like to point something out to all the thieves whining about how you guys get nerfed so much: You’ve only have 4 skills nerfed.

Really? As a thief, you can’t kill an ele? I’ve been 3 shotted on my NECRO with 26k health PLUS my deathshroud life bar.

I understand that ele’s have an immunity for 3 seconds, but really that shouldn’t stop you. Not to mention a bunker build won’t be able to do a ton of damage to you. The only viable build for pvp should be nerfed? I think not

Stop trolling OP. Elementalists are basically forced to be bunker builds because we have no other builds. So if you nerf that I guess that makes us what? Free kills?

Spam 1 harder.

oflow.2157:

Stop trolling OP. Elementalists are basically forced to be bunker builds because we have no other builds. So if you nerf that I guess that makes us what? Free kills?

Spam 1 harder.

/slowclap

Plus one

Agreed, this was one fight. He really just outplayed you.

Navzar.2938:

I’d like to point something out to all the thieves whining about how you guys get nerfed so much: You’ve only have 4 skills nerfed.

Thieves cant count to 4. For them, there is only 1, 2 and many.

i think i’m the only one that actually likes bunker builds?

i always build my characters tanky in any online game i play. WoW? i preferred defense-oriented builds on any class. GW2? i always spec into the vitality/healing line, 30 points, on every single character. oft, i also spec at least 20-30 points into the toughness line.

name me one good build for the staff, besides bunker, and then i will agree to a nerf

Okey ‘nough with the crying already. I seriously don’t get where Elementalist bunkers are to unbalanced. When I play bunker Elementalist I’m hard as hell to kill, ye sure. Sometimes I find myself tanking even 5-6 people although that’s when the people really suck. However, mostly I have no trouble tanking 2-3 people. It’s because your build are wrong for countering bunker. Let’s make a super clear example. 3 bunkers vs 1 bunker – 4 people doing low damage with high survivability = never ending fight. The guys will keep doing kitten low damage while healing and tanking like bosses.
Now I have faced people with builds that makes my bunker Elementalist completely useless. The main point of PvP in guild wars is team play, is it not? Everyone contributing to the fight in their own way. Now a team with just burst people or a team with just bunker people aren’t gonna win the fight. 1v1ing people isn’t everything even though it’s awesome. No matter how skilled you are or what build you play, you will always end up getting killed sooner or later. Seriously doubt there’s any player that has NEVER died in a 1v1.
You guys are to quick to blame things on unbalance and bugs just because you’re having trouble killing it (not saying there aren’t unbalanced and bugged stuff but point is, most people go “omg unbalance hack hack ban bugs!!!!” when they’re having trouble with something". I mean seriously, what u people want – running around 1 hitting everyone?
I used to have a lot of trouble with theives. Raged a lot cuz’ they are so messed up and unbalanced but mostly cuz’ any noob can be “good” with it. I acctually went through an entire sPvP game only using “2” skill and got the highest kill and even won several 1v1s wich is just lol. But now I’ve managed to counter them pretty good. Theif is acctually the class I have the least trouble with now. Sure I get dropped in 2 seconds sometimes, when I don’t pay attention or the theif managed to sneak up on me. But the fact that it was unbalanced made it more of a challenge to beat em’ wich improved my Elementalist skill greatly.

Now I’ve heard rumours that Elementalists survivability are getting nerfed the 15th. If that’s true I seriously hope they’re gonna boost up our damaged otherwise this class is just not gonna be worth the effort. I love the extra challenge Elementalist bring, but we all got our limits.

DanH.5879:

Hi all. We were 2 vs 1 elementalist bunker, and we coudn’t kill it. even 3 vs 1 was really hard. please understand it shoudn’t be supposed to be like this !
courtesy of the thieves guild and all the nerfs we took so far.

Sorry that you can’t play and have a hard case of l2p bug =/ Bunker ele’s 2v1 againist anyone decent will have a hard time winning. Conditions..boon stripping and alot of cc really screw with us because of our abyssal low dmg. I mean we can stack might to do some decent punch but boon stripping takes care of that

Calle.8746:

Okey ‘nough with the crying already. I seriously don’t get where Elementalist bunkers are to unbalanced. When I play bunker Elementalist I’m hard as hell to kill, ye sure. Sometimes I find myself tanking even 5-6 people although that’s when the people really suck. However, mostly I have no trouble tanking 2-3 people. It’s because your build are wrong for countering bunker. Let’s make a super clear example. 3 bunkers vs 1 bunker – 4 people doing low damage with high survivability = never ending fight. The guys will keep doing kitten low damage while healing and tanking like bosses.
Now I have faced people with builds that makes my bunker Elementalist completely useless. The main point of PvP in guild wars is team play, is it not? Everyone contributing to the fight in their own way. Now a team with just burst people or a team with just bunker people aren’t gonna win the fight. 1v1ing people isn’t everything even though it’s awesome. No matter how skilled you are or what build you play, you will always end up getting killed sooner or later. Seriously doubt there’s any player that has NEVER died in a 1v1.
You guys are to quick to blame things on unbalance and bugs just because you’re having trouble killing it (not saying there aren’t unbalanced and bugged stuff but point is, most people go “omg unbalance hack hack ban bugs!!!!” when they’re having trouble with something". I mean seriously, what u people want – running around 1 hitting everyone?
I used to have a lot of trouble with theives. Raged a lot cuz’ they are so messed up and unbalanced but mostly cuz’ any noob can be “good” with it. I acctually went through an entire sPvP game only using “2” skill and got the highest kill and even won several 1v1s wich is just lol. But now I’ve managed to counter them pretty good. Theif is acctually the class I have the least trouble with now. Sure I get dropped in 2 seconds sometimes, when I don’t pay attention or the theif managed to sneak up on me. But the fact that it was unbalanced made it more of a challenge to beat em’ wich improved my Elementalist skill greatly.

Now I’ve heard rumours that Elementalists survivability are getting nerfed the 15th. If that’s true I seriously hope they’re gonna boost up our damaged otherwise this class is just not gonna be worth the effort. I love the extra challenge Elementalist bring, but we all got our limits.

People are too lazy and don’t feel like adjusting their play or feel like it’s their own fault. Fail at a dungeon? too hard cause they have to dodge…. can’t kill someone in pvp? X class is too op and mines needs a buff Gear not up to par? Takes too long to farm It’s always something basicly they want this game diluted down to tank and spank lol heal through everything press 1-2-3-4 optimal build/rotation or it’s garbage and not done correctly.

Eh, wtf? My ranger was going to attack 2 players, then all of a sudden I got KOed in ~1 second.
From what? A thief, he/she did 19,000 dmg (3 hits)
Player was stealthed before I entered the room with the other 2 who didn’t do anything to me…. (this was after the dreadful nerf you had)

Ele’s bunker because our burst is pretty limited. I’d expect a buff in return for any nerf.

I’m not even sure what you would nerf? Bunkers just outlast people and don’t have huge dmg output in return. Healing power, cooldowns, combos, etc? The difference vetween us and thieves is its not just one thing that is markedly OP. It’s only the skillful combination of a variety of skills in specific situations that makes it seem OP.

why do ppl always cry for nerfs? Why thief class is eventually what ppl are crying for the nerf? Not every build should be able to kill everythng, and not every fight should go n the same way. I don’t lke the nerfs on theves because this is just a " mom a thief killed me, make it stop" , but don’t nerf constantlly everything….Only a couple of sugestions on this topic too, i’ve learned nothing, just a cry for nerfs, and l2p everything else. Nerfs is not a fix, but ppl that try to do sth are usually not the ppl buying gems….

TGSlasher.1458

I hope that the water effect is not reduced from evasive arcana, I run tankish bunker spec, with dagger dagger, and the dodge heal is all I can do to survive.

The main problem is Evasive Arcana’s synergy with staff’s Healing Rain combo field. You can just keep spamming dodge rolls through it and keep regeneration up constantly. That’s what’s pushing bunker Ele’s over the top, and some aspect of that is the most likely candidate for adjustment, I think.

I play D/D too, so I’d be bummed to see Evasive Arcana get nerfed, but it’s not entirely unlikely it will happen.