Guild Wars 2

I have been playing around with the build edditor on the web page and i made a build.

And now i was going back and forth ,switching between having a celestial armor set +celestial acessory set OR zerker armor set +soldiers accessory set.

The weapons i used were rampager scepter with +20% burning and zerker dagger offhand with +20% bleeding (in both cases)

I also used the +150power when in fire attunement trait into consideration.

Now, stats wise this is what i ended up with:

Power+Soldiers give about +600power stats more compared to celestial stats

Celestial set gives +10%crit chance, 521healing power and condi dmg (about 50% more bleeding dmg and 30% more burning dmg, also about 1000health more when using glyph of harmony in water attunement and about +600health more when using a full ether renewal.

Power+soldier set gives a +55armor and about +700max health…those things are very small that i just ignored it, same goes with crit dmg (cele gives more of that tho)

Now when i look at s/d atacks such as flame strike, dragons tooth, ring of fire, stone shards and churning earth, the combined dmg form the condition and regular attacks becomes about 33% better when using celestial gear.

I didn’t use critical chance or critical strike into considiration (tho i asume,even with 600 less power, celestial stats offer more crit chance and dmg than the zerker/soldier set…)

And then i did the same thing but this time on a zerker staff also with +20bleeding and burning sigils. I only did the math with the skills people normaly use for dps
Skills are : All 5 fire staff skills, Air auto attacks, Earth 2 and 5 skills

The Zerker/soldier armor set did better on this one when it comes to normal raw dmg…however once again, the lack of condition dmg from celestial staff made a significant impact on the overall dmg (mainly provided,or lack off trough skills such as flame burst, eruption and shockwave)

In total, using the Zerker/power set will give you about -20% dmg compared when using celestial.

MAJOR NOTE: All those numbers from attacks were treated as if i was attacking a single time, and a single target.
This means that my lava font dealt all ticks on 1 target, my dragons tooth hit 1 target, and also my meteor shower hits 1 target ONCE.

Also note that the runes used in this were rune of strength and that even without the +20% bleeding and burning sigils, the amount of those condition dmg are significantly higher on celestial than without it. (meaning condition modifiers on skills with conditions scale very good with condition dmg on a ele,perhaps even better than power does on power modifiers )

Aftermath:
The math here doesn’t show optimal dps, it doesn’t use into consideration the full potential of skills (lava font hits 5 targets, meteor shower hits 3 targets 24 times…) and it doesn’t use a super optimal build.

This “math” shows only how the amount of stats that you get from a full celestial armor/accessory effects the dmg modifiers compared to a full zerker armor with soldiers accessory.

Conclusion:
Condition dmg scales extremely well on elementalist burning and bleeding skills compared to how power effects the raw dmg of skills overall.

However the elementalist (mostly on staff) has the potential (with the use of his splash aoe effect on fireballs,bouncing effect on chain lightning, 5 target lava font and 24hits on 3 targets meteor shower) to deal far superior dmg, as well as far better dps than a hybrid or a pure condition elementalist can.

Agree? Disagree? Opinions? Thoughts? Explanations? Feel free to share.

How in the hell Celestial stats would give more crit chance and dmg than berz stats? It just doesn’t happen.

Celestial can NOT deal as much raw dmg as berz because almost half the stats are spent on survivability. That’s just common sense. I would like to know how you conducted your tests. Or did you just add every spell’s dmg without accounting the CDs and how much of these spells would hit?

edit : Either you are facing a boss with a larger hitbox than your average enemy or you are facing multiple small enemies. Either cases, your meteor shower is going to hit WAY MORE than 1 time. So yeah. Your calculations are flawed and don’t reflect reality in any way.

I’m using full Marauder armors + Zerk trinkets and doing pretty well in jungle.

16k HP while sacrificing less dps than using Full Celes. Avoid lots of OHKO.

Most foes are fine, but those range foes really hit like a truck and many of them can’t be reflected :/ (Dam frog archer and chaks and Modrem snipers..)

Somehow.4769:

How in the hell Celestial stats would give more crit chance and dmg than berz stats? It just doesn’t happen.

Celestial can NOT deal as much raw dmg as berz because almost half the stats are spent on survivability. That’s just common sense. I would like to know how you conducted your tests. Or did you just add every spell’s dmg without accounting the CDs and how much of these spells would hit?

edit : Either you are facing a boss with a larger hitbox than your average enemy or you are facing multiple small enemies. Either cases, your meteor shower is going to hit WAY MORE than 1 time. So yeah. Your calculations are flawed and don’t reflect reality in any way.

I have a feeling you haven’t read my entire post, or understood what i was trying to show here.

1) I was comparing Full Celestial armor+accessory set with a Zerker armor+ Soldiers accessory. The reason why the full celestial armor+accessory give more crit chance is cause Soldiers offer no precision.

Celestial armor+accessory gives more precision that JUST Zerker armor (without zerker accessory)

2) I already mentioned that the combination of zerker armor and soldiers accessory gives about 600 power more than the celestial armoraccessory set.

However the 521 condition damage from celestial set modifies skills with burning and bleeding in a way that it makes such skills stronger ( about 33% stronger) than when you use the exact same skills with 0 condi dmg and 600 more power.

In other words, when it comes to overall dmg, 521 condi dmg makes those skills 33% more efficient with damage than 600 power.

Examples:
Lets compare 2 skills with the 2 different gear sets (full celestial vs Zerker armor+ Soldiers accessory). In both cases we use runes of strength and the same weapon with no sigils, and we gain +150 power while attuned to fire (trait)

A) Gear: Zerker armor/strength runes +Soldiers accessory

Flame strike: 400raw dmg, 436 burning dmg ( 837 total dmg)
Stone shards: 423raw dmg, 493 bleeding dmg (916 total dmg)

B) Gear: Celestial armor/strength runes + Celestial accessory

Flamestrike: 308raw dmg, 679 burning dmg (987 total dmg, 150 more dmg)
Stone Shards: 321raw dmg, 1056bleeding dmg ( 1377 total dmg, 461 more dmg)

3)No, my calculations don’t show reality, it was never my intention to do that. I was just showing what i discovered while playing around with the build editor.
And that’s that condition damage STAT modifies elementalist skills (that deal burning and bleeding) better than power modifies all other elementalist skills (including the ones that deal bleeding and burning)

Meaning, as said before, the 521 condition dmg you get from celestial makes condition applying skills stronger compared to the same skills that get 600 power (and 10crit % less) from a Zerker armor + Soldier accessory set.

As for the hitbox of the mob, the amount of mob, and the way meteor shower deals dmg you should read my conclusion from the original post

Somehow.4769:

How in the hell Celestial stats would give more crit chance and dmg than berz stats? It just doesn’t happen.

I think he said soldier/zerker. So that is why.

Aomine.5012:

I’m using full Marauder armors + Zerk trinkets and doing pretty well in jungle.

16k HP while sacrificing less dps than using Full Celes. Avoid lots of OHKO.

Most foes are fine, but those range foes really hit like a truck and many of them can’t be reflected :/ (Dam frog archer and chaks and Modrem snipers..)

Full marauder armor + zerker accessory (all ascended and without any vitality/toughness on weapons or runes or food) gives about 521 less defense and about 3140 less health than a full celestial armor (without vit and tough on runes, weapons or food)

So if you could tell me what weapons,food, runes or traits you are using to get to your 16k hp using marauder armor + zerker accessory? I would be grateful

Soldier’s is sort of passe at this point. Better to go with Cav. Also, I find it easier to make the armor the variable than the accessories/back (unless you are using full ascended armor). Cav armor, zerk trinkets/back. I don’t find vitality that important, as toughness acts like vit in most situations (sans condi shower) and with a lower health pool, your heals actually provide more of your total HP %.

I also think you are overvaluing the condi dmg but I don’t have the time to actually test it..

Bhima.9518:

I also think you are overvaluing the condi dmg but I don’t have the time to actually test it..

I’m not trying to say condi dmg is superb compared to raw dmg, im saying that condition dmg stat scales the elementalists burning and bleeding in a much better way power does to raw dmg.

Meaning 100 Condi dmg stats will make eruption deal far more dmg than with 100 power.
And since in both cases (100 condi or 100 power) the skill can crit, you will need quite a high critical dmg % to make it equal.

Example:
Eruption with 1100 power and 0 condi dmg = 537raw dmg. 1584 bleeding dmg
Eruption with 1000 power and 100 condi dmg= 489raw dmg, 2016 bleeding dmg

The eruption with 100 less power but 100 more condi dmg deals 384 total dmg more

If eruption crits ,and has 200% crit dmg the results will be as folowing:
100power =1074 raw dmg +1584 bleeding dmg = 2658 total dmg
100 condi = 978 raw dmg + 2016 bleeding dmg = 2994 total dmg

On crit with 200% critical dmg, the 100 condi dmg still managed to deal 336 more dmg.

One would need to have +1015 power in order to deal 112 dmg more than you would do with +100 condi dmg (on a non crit hit)

Again, im not trying to say condition dmg and condition skills and builds are superior and overpowered. I am showing how Power stat and Condition damage stat scales raw and condition dmg on elementalist skills.

Obviously im not taking into consideration that eruption has a 6 second cd, and a 12 second bleeding duration. Why? Because im not trying to show some super efficient condition meta build and im also not trying to show some sort of dps comparison between power based builds or condition based builds.

Again, im just showing how the 2 stats, Power and Condition damage effects various skills, and how those stats scale the raw and bleeding/burning condition damage up.

Vukorep.3081:

Aomine.5012:

I’m using full Marauder armors + Zerk trinkets and doing pretty well in jungle.

16k HP while sacrificing less dps than using Full Celes. Avoid lots of OHKO.

Most foes are fine, but those range foes really hit like a truck and many of them can’t be reflected :/ (Dam frog archer and chaks and Modrem snipers..)

Full marauder armor + zerker accessory (all ascended and without any vitality/toughness on weapons or runes or food) gives about 521 less defense and about 3140 less health than a full celestial armor (without vit and tough on runes, weapons or food)

So if you could tell me what weapons,food, runes or traits you are using to get to your 16k hp using marauder armor + zerker accessory? I would be grateful

I think I have a slight error in my post though.

I’m using Marauder Amulet too because currently other trinket parts has no Marauder ascended stat.

Also I’m fully ascended on all parts.

Vukorep.3081:

Bhima.9518:

I also think you are overvaluing the condi dmg but I don’t have the time to actually test it..

I’m not trying to say condi dmg is superb compared to raw dmg, im saying that condition dmg stat scales the elementalists burning and bleeding in a much better way power does to raw dmg.

Meaning 100 Condi dmg stats will make eruption deal far more dmg than with 100 power.
And since in both cases (100 condi or 100 power) the skill can crit, you will need quite a high critical dmg % to make it equal.

Example:
Eruption with 1100 power and 0 condi dmg = 537raw dmg. 1584 bleeding dmg
Eruption with 1000 power and 100 condi dmg= 489raw dmg, 2016 bleeding dmg

The eruption with 100 less power but 100 more condi dmg deals 384 total dmg more

If eruption crits ,and has 200% crit dmg the results will be as folowing:
100power =1074 raw dmg +1584 bleeding dmg = 2658 total dmg
100 condi = 978 raw dmg + 2016 bleeding dmg = 2994 total dmg

On crit with 200% critical dmg, the 100 condi dmg still managed to deal 336 more dmg.

One would need to have +1015 power in order to deal 112 dmg more than you would do with +100 condi dmg (on a non crit hit)

Again, im not trying to say condition dmg and condition skills and builds are superior and overpowered. I am showing how Power stat and Condition damage stat scales raw and condition dmg on elementalist skills.

Obviously im not taking into consideration that eruption has a 6 second cd, and a 12 second bleeding duration. Why? Because im not trying to show some super efficient condition meta build and im also not trying to show some sort of dps comparison between power based builds or condition based builds.

Again, im just showing how the 2 stats, Power and Condition damage effects various skills, and how those stats scale the raw and bleeding/burning condition damage up.

Not sure your example really helps your case though because it is the BEST case scenario skill for a direct damage ele with some condi dmg. Its also not a skill we use very often for damage (normally used as an initial opening blast finisher to get might off of a lava font at the start of a fight… then you rarely use it again if at all during the fight). The vast majority of staff damage (at LEAST 80% of the total damage) comes from lava font, fireball and meteor shower. So while condi-damage can produce overall better dps on specific abilities, when taking the actual rotations of direct damage staff into consideration, those abilities are basically a rounding error in the total damage of a fight.

Bhima.9518:

Not sure your example really helps your case though because it is the BEST case scenario skill for a direct damage ele with some condi dmg. Its also not a skill we use very often for damage (normally used as an initial opening blast finisher to get might off of a lava font at the start of a fight… then you rarely use it again if at all during the fight). The vast majority of staff damage (at LEAST 80% of the total damage) comes from lava font, fireball and meteor shower. So while condi-damage can produce overall better dps on specific abilities, when taking the actual rotations of direct damage staff into consideration, those abilities are basically a rounding error in the total damage of a fight.

1) I picked the skill at random really, it was the first thing that came to my mind when i was looking for a skill to use as a example. I could have used flame strike, or flame burst, or stone shards..any skill that has both raw dmg and condition dmg on them.

2) I’m fully aware the “normal” use of eruption, however i said numerous times in my replies and original post is that the whole post was not about showing how condition dmg skills can be used in a rotation efficiently and turn out with a better dps with a few hundreds of condition damage stats on your gear.

3)Again, this isn’t about rotations, dps, min/maxing or optimizing a build, its about me showing how the Condition damage stat effects skills with conditions on them compared to how power stat effects all other skills (including the skills with conditions on them).

4) Please read my conclusion on the original post, i think it sums up pretty much everything that’s been thrown at me since i started this thread…