Guild Wars 2

45 second Cooldown on a weapon skill ??? are you kidding me ?

This class is sooo badly designed.

45 second CD.. i dont even have that on my sigils on my other classes i play…
and i play Warrior (hammer / rifle). Flamethrower engineer. Hammer/support guardian.
Longbow 1500 range ranger.

None of my other classes have even close to this 45 sec CD on their weapon skills.

Hell.. if i wanted to. i could play my warrior and do 100blades every 8 second.
Ofcourse.. its stationary and melee. But not a problem.. many ways to root/knock down an enemy and go wild on them. and we all know 100 blades are insane. 20k.

Hell.. if i wanted to. i could play my warrior and do 100blades every 8 second.
Ofcourse.. its stationary and melee. But not a problem.. many ways to root/knock down an enemy and go wild on them. and we all know 100 blades are insane. 20k.And back to this.. 45 second CD weapon skill of dagger/dagger.
Is it a joke ?? did they put a ( , ) in the wrong place ? did they mean 4,5 second ?
so you could actually use it ?

Imo. elemental class is a bad joke.

I can use my rifle warrior and use my 6 second CD.. 1200 range Volley.
wich does 5 – 8 k dmg. depending on though and class. (8k on elementals).
and i do 1 k normal hits.. and 2.5 k crits. 1200 range… boom boom.

Seriously.. Remake the elemental class.. and make it usefull.
As it is now.. its nothing i fear at all on www. they fear me more when i launch 1 volley to take 50 % of their hp.. and if they do dagger /dagger on me..
i just hammer them silly with 2 k normal hits.. and have seen crits 4k.

Seriously.. Remake the elemental class.. and make it usefull.
As it is now.. its nothing i fear at all on www. they fear me more when i launch 1 volley to take 50 % of their hp.. and if they do dagger /dagger on me..
i just hammer them silly with 2 k normal hits.. and have seen crits 4k.i feel sorry for the ppl playing this useless class as it is now.

well before aoe nerf D/D was OP in www.

Now with aoe nerf expecially since it doesn t affect mesmer/necro fields…D/D is horribad unless you play on small skirmishes…..but for that there are lot of better classes.

troll topic of the day …

and im posting in it, silly me

How ele was created:

DevA:lets give an ele 2x more skils!!!

meanwhile DevB: omg ele has so many skills its so OP, lets take 50% of his HP
meanwhile DevC: omg ele has so many skills its so OP, lets make his CD twice as long
meanwhile DevD: omg ele has so many skills its so OP, lets make his condis 50% shorter
meanwhile DevE: omg ele has so many skills its so OP, lets make his auto attack effective hits only 50%
meanwhile DevF: omg ele has so many skills its so OP, lets take 300 tou frmm the ele compared to heavy
meanwhile DevG: omg ele has so many skills its so OP, lets make pre and after cast times twice as long as others have
meanwhile DevH: omg ele has so many skills its so OP, they absolutely cant swap weapons!!!
meanwhile DevI: omg ele has so many skills its so OP, they must be either close, mid or range – but never all at same time
meanwhile DevJ: omg ele has so many skills its so OP, they must use watter/arcane traitline to live
meanwhile DevK: omg ele has so many skills its so OP, they must have ultra obvious/long skill animations
meanwhile DevL: omg ele has so many skills its so OP, lets put some nasty bugs ^^ to make it more balanced

@devs:
Please communicate with each other

Surely your 100% PvE and even in PvE an ele can be viable (not that much as a warrior).
You just have no clue how to handle with traits and utilities. As it comes to PvP the elementalist is the best class.

So in knowledge you have no idea about the class means it’s not a troll topic.
It should be actually.

What? Saying Elem are lack luster?

What?

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Surely your 100% PvE and even in PvE an ele can be viable (not that much as a warrior).
You just have no clue how to handle with traits and utilities. As it comes to PvP the elementalist is the best class.

So in knowledge you have no idea about the class means it’s not a troll topic.
It should be actually.

*You’re

and not true at all…

lavadiel got it 100% (obviously exaggerate)

Seems devs balance things on paper, while doing so they just forget things like….no weapon swap, double CD, half duration, lowest dmg autoattack, low HP+light armor etc etc etc…..

We have more drawbacks (and the most impacting) than any other class….where is compensation?

Is he talking about fire grab?

Just a hunch, but as this is eldain’s second thread trashing the ele, neither of which sounds like he actually plays ele, I’m guessing he got his kitten handed to him by an ele, maybe several times, and this is his way of venting. It could be he’s a totally incompetent ele, or maybe these threads are just the best entertainment he can think of late at night in his parents’ basement. But I’m going with got his kitten handed to him.

LordByron.8369:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Surely your 100% PvE and even in PvE an ele can be viable (not that much as a warrior).
You just have no clue how to handle with traits and utilities. As it comes to PvP the elementalist is the best class.

So in knowledge you have no idea about the class means it’s not a troll topic.
It should be actually.

*You’re

and not true at all…

lavadiel got it 100% (obviously exaggerate)

Seems devs balance things on paper, while doing so they just forget things like….no weapon swap, double CD, half duration, lowest dmg autoattack, low HP+light armor etc etc etc…..

We have more drawbacks (and the most impacting) than any other class….where is compensation?

Instead of correct ppl about grammar, you should learn the class. Sorry but you have absolutely no clue how to play a proper ele. Mabye you go 30 on fire and 0 on aracana, now come on forums and complain about cd and low hp/armor.

cool
And could you explain how do you managed to deduce:

1) my personal skill level
2) my build

then explain me what we learned from your posts…
Maybe you think that people will admire you because you said we need to l2p ._. if so well….its not so.

Sincerely…an ele since launch and not a bandwagoner like someone other

What did I just read? ._.

We have lots of powerful ~45 sec c/d weapon skills. E.g. Updraft and Earthquake kind of do the same thing, so instead of having 1 skill with a shorter c/d, isn’t it better to have 2 separate ones which can cooldown separately and be used back to back if you so desire?

Although I kind of wish fire grab had a shorter cooldown – it’s our hardest hitting nuke skill which requires burning and point blank range – and it doesn’t even hit all that hard if you build to not die right after using it. it’s not really that important though since we are in a good spot balance-wise.

Sunflowers.1729:

We have lots of powerful ~45 sec c/d weapon skills. E.g. Updraft and Earthquake kind of do the same thing, so instead of having 1 skill with a shorter c/d, isn’t it better to have 2 separate ones which can cooldown separately and be used back to back if you so desire?

cool 2 stack of defiant removed now i can clearly solo fotm ._.

But wait i m playing www……i can use RTL to to kill that Arrow cart on the wall……

Well at least i can rach the zerg to updraft…..oh wait there are 4 mesmer/necro fields that will kill me if i even try to get near…..maybe i’ll change weapon :o
“you can t change weapon in battle”kitten (weirdest profanity filter ever ._. was justrage meme….)

I know today all you hear is D/D is OP (its not), but outside a debatable system in wich survining in asquare gives you point, balance is completely different…..

It’s like I traveled back in time to September.

Larynx.2453:

It’s like I traveled back in time to September.

actually not…
i don t think balanced and offensive builds liked last patch a lot….

Non bunker ele are in need of help…..

The same facts that players define “noobs” people who actually try any other build is quite a proof of it.

nothing.7941:

Just a hunch, but as this is eldain’s second thread trashing the ele, neither of which sounds like he actually plays ele, I’m guessing he got his kitten handed to him by an ele, maybe several times, and this is his way of venting. It could be he’s a totally incompetent ele, or maybe these threads are just the best entertainment he can think of late at night in his parents’ basement. But I’m going with got his kitten handed to him.

sry.. i have not got my kitten handed to me by an elemental.
i play warrior mostly in www. so. they fear me. more than i fear them.

sry.. i have not got my kitten handed to me by an elemental.
i play warrior mostly in www. so. they fear me. more than i fear them.incompetent of playing this elemental class ? maybe.
i have got my elemental to lvl 11 as highest.. i have deleted that char spot countless times. all times after i have played the class a few mins, realising how incredibly much crap this elemental class realy are. then i hit delete button again.

sry.. i have not got my kitten handed to me by an elemental.
i play warrior mostly in www. so. they fear me. more than i fear them.incompetent of playing this elemental class ? maybe.
i have got my elemental to lvl 11 as highest.. i have deleted that char spot countless times. all times after i have played the class a few mins, realising how incredibly much crap this elemental class realy are. then i hit delete button again.I want to have a mage, range class.. i deleted my lvl 30+ necro to make elemental.
I didnt find my necro much fun.. but this elemental.. i cant get higher than lvl 10 again… its just impossible to try and play this totaly worthless class.

sry.. i have not got my kitten handed to me by an elemental.
i play warrior mostly in www. so. they fear me. more than i fear them.incompetent of playing this elemental class ? maybe.
i have got my elemental to lvl 11 as highest.. i have deleted that char spot countless times. all times after i have played the class a few mins, realising how incredibly much crap this elemental class realy are. then i hit delete button again.I want to have a mage, range class.. i deleted my lvl 30+ necro to make elemental.
I didnt find my necro much fun.. but this elemental.. i cant get higher than lvl 10 again… its just impossible to try and play this totaly worthless class.I still try, since as i said.. i want a mage class.
(didnt like mesmer, and deleted my necro 30+).

sry.. i have not got my kitten handed to me by an elemental.
i play warrior mostly in www. so. they fear me. more than i fear them.incompetent of playing this elemental class ? maybe.
i have got my elemental to lvl 11 as highest.. i have deleted that char spot countless times. all times after i have played the class a few mins, realising how incredibly much crap this elemental class realy are. then i hit delete button again.I want to have a mage, range class.. i deleted my lvl 30+ necro to make elemental.
I didnt find my necro much fun.. but this elemental.. i cant get higher than lvl 10 again… its just impossible to try and play this totaly worthless class.I still try, since as i said.. i want a mage class.
(didnt like mesmer, and deleted my necro 30+).iam saying, and iam not alone if looking around the forum. elemental class is stupidly badly designed. and weak.

sry.. i have not got my kitten handed to me by an elemental.
i play warrior mostly in www. so. they fear me. more than i fear them.incompetent of playing this elemental class ? maybe.
i have got my elemental to lvl 11 as highest.. i have deleted that char spot countless times. all times after i have played the class a few mins, realising how incredibly much crap this elemental class realy are. then i hit delete button again.I want to have a mage, range class.. i deleted my lvl 30+ necro to make elemental.
I didnt find my necro much fun.. but this elemental.. i cant get higher than lvl 10 again… its just impossible to try and play this totaly worthless class.I still try, since as i said.. i want a mage class.
(didnt like mesmer, and deleted my necro 30+).iam saying, and iam not alone if looking around the forum. elemental class is stupidly badly designed. and weak.they have about 1 spell in www to use. their meteor rain.

sry.. i have not got my kitten handed to me by an elemental.
i play warrior mostly in www. so. they fear me. more than i fear them.incompetent of playing this elemental class ? maybe.
i have got my elemental to lvl 11 as highest.. i have deleted that char spot countless times. all times after i have played the class a few mins, realising how incredibly much crap this elemental class realy are. then i hit delete button again.I want to have a mage, range class.. i deleted my lvl 30+ necro to make elemental.
I didnt find my necro much fun.. but this elemental.. i cant get higher than lvl 10 again… its just impossible to try and play this totaly worthless class.I still try, since as i said.. i want a mage class.
(didnt like mesmer, and deleted my necro 30+).iam saying, and iam not alone if looking around the forum. elemental class is stupidly badly designed. and weak.they have about 1 spell in www to use. their meteor rain.so..in other words.. you, and all other elemental players, you need a buff, or preferably.. a total remake o this class.

sry.. i have not got my kitten handed to me by an elemental.
i play warrior mostly in www. so. they fear me. more than i fear them.incompetent of playing this elemental class ? maybe.
i have got my elemental to lvl 11 as highest.. i have deleted that char spot countless times. all times after i have played the class a few mins, realising how incredibly much crap this elemental class realy are. then i hit delete button again.I want to have a mage, range class.. i deleted my lvl 30+ necro to make elemental.
I didnt find my necro much fun.. but this elemental.. i cant get higher than lvl 10 again… its just impossible to try and play this totaly worthless class.I still try, since as i said.. i want a mage class.
(didnt like mesmer, and deleted my necro 30+).iam saying, and iam not alone if looking around the forum. elemental class is stupidly badly designed. and weak.they have about 1 spell in www to use. their meteor rain.so..in other words.. you, and all other elemental players, you need a buff, or preferably.. a total remake o this class.(this replying programing seem badly designed also.. i see what i wrote repeated alot of times on preview ?? wonder if its a bug.. lets try

LOL.. i wrote this 1 time.. not 10… A-net is soo noob with their programings and designs. not even i had these problems on forums i have created myself… just lol.

LOL.. i wrote this 1 time.. not 10… A-net is soo noob with their programings and designs. not even i had these problems on forums i have created myself… just lol.I also use line breakings. not just 1 big wall of text…

LOL.. i wrote this 1 time.. not 10… A-net is soo noob with their programings and designs. not even i had these problems on forums i have created myself… just lol.I also use line breakings. not just 1 big wall of text…Again, just lol at B-net incompetence.

Eles… fear… warriors … in wvw…?

I honestly can’t remember when was the last time I’ve been killed by a warrior in WvW… I either run into GS 100b’ers that couldn’t land a combo in the culling even if they want to or 1 handers ( no I don’t know what weapons sorry ) that don’t have enough immob or chase mechanics to keep up with me.

Lavadiel.6231:

How ele was created:

DevA:lets give an ele 2x more skils!!!

meanwhile DevB: omg ele has so many skills its so OP, lets take 50% of his HP
meanwhile DevC: omg ele has so many skills its so OP, lets make his CD twice as long
meanwhile DevD: omg ele has so many skills its so OP, lets make his condis 50% shorter
meanwhile DevE: omg ele has so many skills its so OP, lets make his auto attack effective hits only 50%
meanwhile DevF: omg ele has so many skills its so OP, lets take 300 tou frmm the ele compared to heavy
meanwhile DevG: omg ele has so many skills its so OP, lets make pre and after cast times twice as long as others have
meanwhile DevH: omg ele has so many skills its so OP, they absolutely cant swap weapons!!!
meanwhile DevI: omg ele has so many skills its so OP, they must be either close, mid or range – but never all at same time
meanwhile DevJ: omg ele has so many skills its so OP, they must use watter/arcane traitline to live
meanwhile DevK: omg ele has so many skills its so OP, they must have ultra obvious/long skill animations
meanwhile DevL: omg ele has so many skills its so OP, lets put some nasty bugs ^^ to make it more balanced

@devs:
Please communicate with each other

so true

I personally love D/D, but it really saddens me that I’m being pushed into using a Staff in so many cases (World Events, FotM etc. all require range if you are a Light armor class). I like it that you should occasionally and situationally swap weapon sets but it really feels like I’m not allowed to use D/D as my main weapons and have a Staff as the occasional one.

Soulview.4532:

Lavadiel.6231:

How ele was created:

DevA:lets give an ele 2x more skils!!!

meanwhile DevB: omg ele has so many skills its so OP, lets take 50% of his HP
meanwhile DevC: omg ele has so many skills its so OP, lets make his CD twice as long
meanwhile DevD: omg ele has so many skills its so OP, lets make his condis 50% shorter
meanwhile DevE: omg ele has so many skills its so OP, lets make his auto attack effective hits only 50%
meanwhile DevF: omg ele has so many skills its so OP, lets take 300 tou frmm the ele compared to heavy
meanwhile DevG: omg ele has so many skills its so OP, lets make pre and after cast times twice as long as others have
meanwhile DevH: omg ele has so many skills its so OP, they absolutely cant swap weapons!!!
meanwhile DevI: omg ele has so many skills its so OP, they must be either close, mid or range – but never all at same time
meanwhile DevJ: omg ele has so many skills its so OP, they must use watter/arcane traitline to live
meanwhile DevK: omg ele has so many skills its so OP, they must have ultra obvious/long skill animations
meanwhile DevL: omg ele has so many skills its so OP, lets put some nasty bugs ^^ to make it more balanced

@devs:
Please communicate with each other

so true

LOL. seems legit.

LordByron.8369:

cool 2 stack of defiant removed now i can clearly solo fotm ._.

But wait i m playing www……i can use RTL to to kill that Arrow cart on the wall……

Well at least i can rach the zerg to updraft…..oh wait there are 4 mesmer/necro fields that will kill me if i even try to get near…..maybe i’ll change weapon :o
“you can t change weapon in battle”kitten (weirdest profanity filter ever ._. was justrage meme….)

I know today all you hear is D/D is OP (its not), but outside a debatable system in wich survining in asquare gives you point, balance is completely different…..

I don’t even know what you are arguing about – you think that I think ele is OP? That was just a response to the thread starter about how having long cooldown weapon skills is balanced, because we have a lot of them.

And if you don’t think a D/D ele is one of the strongest classes in WvW you might want to practice on it a bit more. Yes you many need a staff sometimes. Doesn’t really change much as the generic 0/10/0/30/30 traits still work.

It is possible to do close combat in dungeons as an elementalist. Its just very dangerous and you gotta dodge and CC as much as possible.

45 second Cooldown on a weapon skill ??? are you kidding me ?

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shield_of_Wrath

Put in 0/10/0/30/30, flame-sword as elite. Together with a mesmer and timewarp.
You actually never die and do viable dmg while stacking might for the whole team.

I think ele’s have long cool downs to encourage you to change attunemeants as opposed to stay in one. That way you go to the next attunemeant and use it’s long cool down skill.

LordByron.8369:

lowest dmg autoattack

Actually, the earth scepter auto attack can easily deal over 1000 damage (listed in the description). With might stacking, I managed a whopping 2100 in a balanced build. Can’t say that’s weak, even if part of it is bleeding damage.

As for the other weapons, did you ever consider that maybe our auto attacks aren’t our bread and butter attacks, but mere fillers? If you keep switching up often enough, you may use one auto attack every 15 seconds or so. Rest of it is higher damage skills.

Sunflowers.1729:

LordByron.8369:

cool 2 stack of defiant removed now i can clearly solo fotm ._.

But wait i m playing www……i can use RTL to to kill that Arrow cart on the wall……

Well at least i can rach the zerg to updraft…..oh wait there are 4 mesmer/necro fields that will kill me if i even try to get near…..maybe i’ll change weapon :o
“you can t change weapon in battle”kitten (weirdest profanity filter ever ._. was justrage meme….)

I know today all you hear is D/D is OP (its not), but outside a debatable system in wich survining in asquare gives you point, balance is completely different…..

And if you don’t think a D/D ele is one of the strongest classes in WvW you might want to practice on it a bit more. Yes you many need a staff sometimes. Doesn’t really change much as the generic 0/10/0/30/30 traits still work.

care to discuss instead of throwing random statements?

I explained why D/D is trash currently in WWW.

I play on SFR…..

Every battle is a large scale battle, and actually people realized how some aoe weren t affected by aoe cap…..

Thus stacking those AoE creates a protective barrier around enemy “deathballs”
Now really few classes can get through that, and a D/D ele haven t ANY single skill to do that.

Or you’d better attack ranged…..

So in zerg a staff is way better to contribute to the battle outcome…
Having stealth could help getting around the zerg but unfortunately ele doesn t have it…so to do that you have to just burn your best cooldown leaving you helpless as you arrive near target.

Second case you are defending a keep …
You have a D/D you just jump out the keep just to die before completing any skill.

If you instead equip a staff you can at least attack from the walls

If instead you are on sieging side, yous short range makes you just useless until the door s are down you’d better equip a staff to attack from range or a focus to defend siege machines….

But then you cannot switch when defenders arrives,thus you are possibly dead.

What does it remains?
running back and forth gettingsupply? yes this is cool is ele OP for this?

Small skirmishes? you cannot kill any balanced/tank class with a D/D bunker……..so ?
Ah well you can escape from 2 opponents..,……does it make any impacrt on WWW?
Is fleeing OP?

You can kill roaming thieves and gc rangers…..or Killing some camps.
Tiheves can do the same with less effort.

Tell me what is so OP of a D/D ele in WWW.
I just switch to staff so often lately that i could start to avoid any other weaponset….

I infact says this since a lot…but on eu servers you don t see many D/D ele……you see way more staff ele, necro, ranger and mesmers…and a huge amount of thieves and guardians…

I almost never meet a D/D ele in fights……i meet a lot actually in jumping puzzles, near vistas and POI…..

That is what ele is best for..exploring map ….for that is indeed the best class….for your 100% map completion.

That proves quite the point….considering

And if you are saying that a 0/10/0/30/30 staff ele is somehow efficient you are quite wrong…..

Confirmed that eles fear warriors.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Fear_Me!%22

D/D eles are very strong roamers in WvW because of strong 1v1 and mobility. So massive zerg battles aside, they are good for taking small objectives and generally being a pain to kill. I’m pretty sure nobody complains that thieves are OP because of what they bring to a giant battle, but rather what they can do to small groups of players. By the way it is true that thieves can do the same with less effort, but 1) they are getting nerfed and 2) it still doesn’t make eles bad at roaming.

Even on your server (T1 I presume) there’s bound to be something to do without following the zerg around. And if there really isn’t then I concede that you win, because my earlier comment was based around these small fights. Enjoy your super long WvW queues, I guess.

You as most complainers forgot eles have lot of downsides….
Being situational and having all around drawbacks is the reason why ELE are not op at all.

Thieves does what they do in full glass cannon….
Ele to achieve that sacrifice all their damage.
Ele are stuck in short range fights
Ele lacks invulnerability skills to survive zerg impact and be able to cast spells before dying.
You can mindlessly jump near a zerg and try…..you may even survive…but you won t do any damage and you’ll burn all your looooong cooldowns

said this
Its not true eles are strong in most 1VS1….
They are strong against glass cannons

As said currently necro, mesmers and guardians are king in WWW …..some of their skills expecially for the first 2 are horribly unfair and unbalancing…(i m note even talking of portals).

Still i hear almost nobody complaining….despite they alone changes the tide of zerg wars……

Mostly because people wants just to kill on forum their counter profession….

P.S. as said in my server i rarely meet dagger eles….i see FEW wandering around…but way less then other classes except maybe engineers
And no if you don t have a thief/mesmer…..you’d better stay near your zerg if you want to contribute……

What, when did I even say elementalists are OP? Read all the comments I’ve posted, can you find where I said that? You can’t, cause I didn’t say so.

I’ve also played this class for close to half a year now, so being a ‘complainer’ is hardly a valid comment.

Also your comment about ‘Eles lack invulnerability skills’. Really? Really? There are only a handful of invulnerability skills in the game. I’d say that Mist Form and Obsidian Flesh (granted nobody uses focus) are pretty good.

I’m not even gonna argue with your view that ‘D/D elementalists suck in 1v1’. If you want to believe that, then go ahead. I’ll be stomping people all day in WvW.

Staff is a different story and it isn’t really that good, but hey they already said something about it on SotG so it’s all ok. Besides, this thread is about D/D (but seems to have gone off topic).

LordByron.8369:

stuff…

Where to start.

Well first you assume that all weapons for all classes should be viable in all situations. That is just simply not true. Some weapon sets are designed with different goals in mind. IE… melee, ranged, CC, protection, utility, etc…

Now you’ll claim that other classes get access to two weapons sets and Ele don’t so that’s not fair. This isn’t true either. Engi’s also only get access to 1 weapon set. Their tradeoff is Kits, which if you’ve played a Engi you’ll know that their tradeoff is much more kitten then Ele. Ele’s tradeoff is a HUGE amount of weapon skills.

No other class gets access to the sheer amount of weapon skills Ele gets. What that means is stuff other classes have to use Utility skills for we get just in weapon skills.
D/D for example gets 2x fire fields, vulnerability, 2x chilled, weakness, stun, 2xblowout, 2x cripple, 2x blast finishers, 1x leap finisher. That is not even counting traits/utility skills. With the right traits/utilities you can have even more blast finishers one on a 10 second CD. Combine that with the huge amount of healing we get.
No other class gets anywhere near that amount of CC and utility even with Utility skills and we get it all in 1 weapon set.

That means it leaves our Utilities open to specialize. Want more survivability, no problem take utilities for that. Want more CC, no problem take a utility. Then add in the amount of boons we get. Few classes have access to the amount of boons we have access to. Trait right and you can keep 4-6 boons up almost indefinitely.

Now you talk about trying to “get through” and enemy zerg ball. First off zerg balls are an easy counter so if you are dieing to them then your commanders aren’t leading you properly. Second of all, don’t hit a zerg ball head on. That is their design to chew stuff up. Try thinking strategically instead of saying it hurts when I smash my face into this wall think of a way to get around the wall and do dmg. You have several options at your disposal. Besides the most obvious, move out of the way and hit them from behind, Lightning flash has a 900 range, you can teleport behind them. RTL will get through them to the back side. Least effective being to pop armor of faith and run through them. You have 6 seconds of stability and protection, more depending on ruins and traits. Hell you could even probably use burning speed to blow right through them, though it would take amazing timing or you would be dead. Tornado and Flame sword are also great against zerg balls.
If you are dieing to zerg balls because you can’t face tank them, then that is your fault for not planning better. Just because you have a melee weapon doesn’t mean you belong in the front of a zerg ball. Mesmer’s, rangers, necro’s, theifs, Engi’s all have a melee option but they would get wrecked ikittenerg ball too. Get behind it and you wreck their ranged classes behind the ball.

Also with the right build and the right combo of Utility options I have actually been quite successful in our melee train. Sharing auras can be very useful in a melee train. You just have to keep an eye on HP and you have plenty of escape tools if things get crazy. Don’t get me started on escape tools. D/D ele’s have access to more oh kitten buttons then anyone. Roaming on a D/D ele you should never die unless you are careless or choose to fight to the death.

Had to break it up because my wall of text was to big.

Defending a keep. That is a horrible example because it’s easy to drop combat for a different weapons et if you want too. If you are dieing on a D/D ele the moment you step foot outside of a keep then you are just not playing well. See my above paragraph. I can harass an entire zerg and not die. If you dive into their zerg ball off the wall, yes you will probably die. Anyone will, play smart and don’t dive into 40 people expecting to live and then blame it on the class when you don’t.
On the sieging side. Switch to a staff if you feel useless or wait for the enemy to try to push out. Dropping combat to switch is easy. I will gladly take that tradeoff for the massive amount of CC and Utility we get from a single weapon set.

Can’t kill a bunker build in a bunker build? So what. All bunker builds suffer from this. You are bunker build. IT’s hard to kill other bunker builds because you are both tough with lots of heals and lower dmg. D/D Ele because of all the might stacks you can get are acuallt very strong in bunker builds but it takes a bit to ramp up damage.

Can’t kill roaming thieves? Against so what, there are some builds that are hard counters to others. Thieves are designed to be able to run. You can do the same. A roaming thief can’t kill you either if they do…that is a L2 kitten ue.

As for the fact that you see mostly Staff Ele’s in WvW right now. What does that prove. The current meta is zerg balls(which is stupid and easily counterable but that’s for a different topic.) For busting zerg balls staff is best. It’s not different then Warriors running hammer in all the zerg balls. Again some weapons are better for some things. You don’t see an Axe warrior running in the front line of a melee train. That doesn’t necessarily make Axe bad, it just means the meta is Hammer warriors. Again I’ve been quite successful running D/D in a melee train before. But I don’t lead the charge into their stability/protection/retail spec’d front line.

All of your arguments seem base around the fact that you want D/D to be able to do everything for you and no one else gets one weapon set for everything either.

The one thing I will say is it seems Ele’s need more viable builds. It feels like we are much more limited in trait selection then many other classes.

Orikx.9671:

LordByron.8369:

stuff…

Where to start.

Well first you assume that all weapons for all classes should be viable in all situations. That is just simply not true. Some weapon sets are designed with different goals in mind. IE… melee, ranged, CC, protection, utility, etc…

that is why other classes have weapon switch…no class other than ele is stuck in one range…

Now you’ll claim that other classes get access to two weapons sets and Ele don’t so that’s not fair. This isn’t true either. Engi’s also only get access to 1 weapon set. Their tradeoff is Kits, which if you’ve played a Engi you’ll know that their tradeoff is much more kitten then Ele. Ele’s tradeoff is a HUGE amount of weapon skills.

false!!

Its another drawback mostly….we learnt to use ATTU swap at our advantage..

But we have the worse autoattack OFFIAICLLY and double the cooldown of othe professions paired with another cooldown being attunements….

No other class gets access to the sheer amount of weapon skills Ele gets. What that means is stuff other classes have to use Utility skills for we get just in weapon skills.
D/D for example gets 2x fire fields

wut? O.o
1 fire field

vulnerability, 2x chilled, weakness, stun, 2xblowout, 2x cripple, 2x blast finishers, 1x leap finisher. That is not even counting traits/utility skills. With the right traits/utilities you can have even more blast finishers one on a 10 second CD. Combine that with the huge amount of healing we get.

AS said DOUBLE CD!!!! <=====

Healing is our survival mechanic…..that is why ele are not stellar in pve

No other class gets anywhere near that amount of CC and utility even with Utility skills and we get it all in 1 weapon set.

This is infact misinformation

Its like saying anattack does triple damage than mine…
Then you check DPS and you notice the high dmg attack is slow and thus effective than my 4 time faster low dmg attack….

That means it leaves our Utilities open to specialize. Want more survivability, no problem take utilities for that. Want more CC, no problem take a utility. Then add in the amount of boons we get. Few classes have access to the amount of boons we have access to. Trait right and you can keep 4-6 boons up almost indefinitely.

to compenaste for lack of stats and its not enough…..
We need water and arcana just to play….nuff said.

most of them are +20 crit chance (fury) and might …..do a comparison in base stats….you’ll get it for yourself.

Now you talk about trying to “get through” and enemy zerg ball. First off zerg balls are an easy counter so if you are dieing to them then your commanders aren’t leading you properly. Second of all, don’t hit a zerg ball head on. That is their design to chew stuff up. Try thinking strategically instead of saying it hurts when I smash my face into this wall think of a way to get around the wall and do dmg. You have several options at your disposal. Besides the most obvious, move out of the way and hit them from behind, Lightning flash has a 900 range, you can teleport behind them. RTL will get through them to the back side. Least effective being to pop armor of faith and run through them. You have 6 seconds of stability and protection, more depending on ruins and traits. Hell you could even probably use burning speed to blow right through them, though it would take amazing timing or you would be dead. Tornado and Flame sword are also great against zerg balls.
If you are dieing to zerg balls because you can’t face tank them, then that is your fault for not planning better. Just because you have a melee weapon doesn’t mean you belong in the front of a zerg ball. Mesmer’s, rangers, necro’s, theifs, Engi’s all have a melee option but they would get wrecked ikittenerg ball too. Get behind it and you wreck their ranged classes behind the ball.

You should play more www this is simply another game not GW2…

Also with the right build and the right combo of Utility options I have actually been quite successful in our melee train. Sharing auras can be very useful in a melee train. You just have to keep an eye on HP and you have plenty of escape tools if things get crazy. Don’t get me started on escape tools. D/D ele’s have access to more oh kitten buttons then anyone. Roaming on a D/D ele you should never die unless you are careless or choose to fight to the death.

and that is when i remember we have limited traits and not 30/30/30/30/30 and the aoe cap……

Take a staff place a field on the floor get 10X the result….

I should go on….but its better to invite you to watch high tier www fights…..

Orikx.9671:

LordByron.8369:

stuff…

No other class gets anywhere near that amount of CC and utility even with Utility skills and we get it all in 1 weapon set.

uhm, how about no?

For example CC & immobilize D/D Ele

Wind
updraft 40 sec CD | 2 sec CC

Earth
earthquake 45 sec CD | 2 sec CC
Magnetic Grasp 12 sec CD | 2 sec immobilize

Utility Skills
Signet of Earth 30 sec CD | 3 sec immobilize
Conjure Lightning Hammer
Wind Blast 18 sec CD | ?? sec CC
Static Field 25 sec CD | 2 sec CC

CC Warrior

Hammer
Backbreaker 30 sec CD | 2 sec CC
Staggering Blow 20 sec CD | 2 sec CC (not sure)
Earthshaker 10 sec CD | 1-2 sec CC

Sword Shild
Shield Bash 25 sec CD | 1 sec CC
Flurry 10 sec CD | 1-4 sec immobilize

Rampage (180 sec CD)
Knockback 6 sec CD | ?? sec CC
Throw Boulder 12 sec CD | ?? sec CC
Stom kitten ec CD | ?? sec CC

Utility Skills
Bull Charge 40 sex CD | 2 sec CC
Kick 20 sec CD | ?? CC
Stomp 60 CD | ?? CC
or
Throw Bolas 20 CD | 4 sec immobilize

In a 60 sec fight ele can use
7 CC`s & immobilize (+ if you want 7 by uility skills)
Warrior
33 CC`s & immobilize ( + if you want by 7 uility skills)

Yes i know nobody Play warrior like this and this calculation is far away from reality. But it Show what is possible if you want.
Engi and guard can have too more cc & immobilize then ele if they want.

sorry for my bad english ^^

Soulview.4532:

Orikx.9671:

LordByron.8369:

stuff…

No other class gets anywhere near that amount of CC and utility even with Utility skills and we get it all in 1 weapon set.

uhm, how about no?

For example CC & immobilize D/D Ele

Wind
updraft 40 sec CD | 2 sec CC

Earth
earthquake 45 sec CD | 2 sec CC
Magnetic Grasp 12 sec CD | 2 sec immobilize

Utility Skills
Signet of Earth 30 sec CD | 3 sec immobilize
Conjure Lightning Hammer
Wind Blast 18 sec CD | ?? sec CC
Static Field 25 sec CD | 2 sec CC

Well sure if you leave half the CC we get out then other classes have more.

How about:
Water Attunement:
Frozen Burst – 15 second CD, last 3 seconds.
Frost Aura – 2 Second Duration, can be applied 1 per second so essentially a 8 second chilled to anyone who continues to attack you.

Air Attunement:
Lightning Touch – 10 second CD and lasts 5 seconds.
Shocking Aura – 4 second duration stunned every time enemy hits you. 25 second CD.

Earth Att:
Ring of Earth – 3 second cripple on 6 sec CD
Magnetic Grasp – 2 sec immobolize on 12 second CD.

Utility Skills:
I wasn’t even counting those but I can if you want.
Glyph of Elemental Power 30 second duration last 45 seconds.
The chances to apply vary depending on Attunement but the lower chance ones last longer so you could argue you could apply about 20-25 seconds of total CC during the 30 second duration.
Most Signets apply a decent length CC on a 20-30 second CD.

Elite Skills.
You Compare Rampage for Warrior but don’t figure in Elites for Ele. Maybe try to be objective instead of just making stuff up to try to prove your point.
Tornado has all kinds of CC with it.

Basically you are either making up lies to try to prove your point or you haven’t truely learned how to play D/D to it’s fullest potential and haven’t learned the power of all of our weapon skills. Either way it doesn’t make the D/D Ele useless.

LordByron.8369:

wut? O.o
1 fire field

Now you talk about trying to “get through” and enemy zerg ball. First off zerg balls are an easy counter so if you are dieing to them then your commanders aren’t leading you properly. Second of all, don’t hit a zerg ball head on. That is their design to chew stuff up. Try thinking strategically instead of saying it hurts when I smash my face into this wall think of a way to get around the wall and do dmg. You have several options at your disposal. Besides the most obvious, move out of the way and hit them from behind, Lightning flash has a 900 range, you can teleport behind them. RTL will get through them to the back side. Least effective being to pop armor of faith and run through them. You have 6 seconds of stability and protection, more depending on ruins and traits. Hell you could even probably use burning speed to blow right through them, though it would take amazing timing or you would be dead. Tornado and Flame sword are also great against zerg balls.
If you are dieing to zerg balls because you can’t face tank them, then that is your fault for not planning better. Just because you have a melee weapon doesn’t mean you belong in the front of a zerg ball. Mesmer’s, rangers, necro’s, theifs, Engi’s all have a melee option but they would get wrecked ikittenerg ball too. Get behind it and you wreck their ranged classes behind the ball.

You should play more www this is simply another game not GW2…

I should go on….but its better to invite you to watch high tier www fights…..

I started to question how much you truely knew about the game when you said they only get 1 fire field.

Then you confirmed that you don’t know it well when trying to say that was another game and not GW2.

You suffer from the same problem as Soulview. You haven’t truely learned how to play D/D so you are blaming your short comings on the class.

Fire Fields:
Burning Speed
Ring of Fire
Try fact checking before you try calling someone else out.

I gave you tried and test methods of being successful(except for Burnind speed which i said is basically a death wish w/o perfect timing) as a D/D Ele against a zerg ball. The problem is you think Zerg Balls are a good strategy. So you are unwilling to think there might be a counter. Talented guilds have been busting up Zerg balls for weeks. The only reason people still run them is it’s an easy way to control a mass of people if they aren’t able to think/react as individuals.

And again. Maybe try fact checking before trying to call someone out. I am on a T1 server so I don’t think you need to invite me to watch a high tier fight as I am participating in them. You are clearly part of one of those zerg ball guilds that gets wreck facing a good guild.

As long as you fail at adapting and figuring out the strengths of your class you will always think they are under powered no mater what the class. There is a reason D/D became the Meta for Ele’s for a couple months. It’s not because they are useless. It’s just that the meta has adapted now and you are stuck in the old way of thinking.

Your argument about auto attack- helps to prove that also. If you idea of being effective is spamming the 1 key you are going to have problems. Until you get into the massive lag fest battles where no one can press anything but 1. And then you are the best class int he game because you have the trump card. Flame Sword #1 skill.

Orikx.9671:

Basically you are either making up lies to try to prove your point or you haven’t truely learned how to play D/D to it’s fullest potential and haven’t learned the power of all of our weapon skills. Either way it doesn’t make the D/D Ele useless.

I don`t know if you notice this but when i understand it right I talk about cc & immobilization? Not about snare. Maybe you didn`t see it but I also don`t count snare and other skills with for example weekness effect from warrior like

Fierce Blow 12 sec cd | 8 sec weakness
Hammer Shock 12 sec cd | 7 sec cripple
Hamstring 15 sec cd | 7 sec cripple
Fear Me 80 sec cd | 1-3 flee (one more cc)

And when i would write like you. I would write now that you try to hold peoples opinion down with calling them noobs because they have no knowlege about their own class. Or that you are such a big noob that you don`t know the differents between CC/immo and snare.

You understand what I mean? Why not talking without affront? Should be possible or not?

I never said that D/D Ele is useless. You said “No other class gets anywhere near that amount of CC and utility even with Utility skills and we get it all in 1 weapon set.” And i proof you are wrong, with an example. Nothing more or less.

One Point you are right I don`t talk about elite Tornado and his “knockback?” cc. Sorry my fault.

Another Thing
“Shocking Aura – 4 second duration stunned every time enemy hits you. 25 second CD.” Works only when they hit you with meele attacks.

I hope you understand all my english isn`t very well.

Soulview.4532:

Orikx.9671:

Basically you are either making up lies to try to prove your point or you haven’t truely learned how to play D/D to it’s fullest potential and haven’t learned the power of all of our weapon skills. Either way it doesn’t make the D/D Ele useless.

I don`t know if you notice this but when i understand it right we talk about cc & immobilization? Not about snare. Maybe you didn`t see it but i also don`t count snare and other skills with for example weekness effect from warrior like

Fierce Blow 12 sec cd | 8 sec weakness
Hammer Shock 12 sec cd | 7 sec cripple

And when i would write like you. I would write now that you try to hold peoples opinion down with calling them noobs because they have no knowlege about their own class. Or that you are such a big noob that you don`t know the differents between CC/immo and a snare.

You understand what i mean? Why not talking without affront? Should be possible or not?

I never said that D/D Ele is useless. You said “No other class gets anywhere near that amount of CC and utility even with Utility skills and we get it all in 1 weapon set.” And i proof you are wrong, with an example. Nothing more or less.

One Point you are right i don`t talk about elite Tornado and his “knockback?” cc. Sorry my fault.

I hope you understand all my english isn`t very well.

You didn’t just leave out snares(cripple). You left out Stuns, Weakness and chilled.
Stun is stun…there is no way you can’t count that as CC.
Weakenss makes 50% of their hits glancing blows and their endurance regens 50% slower which is huge. -50% end regen means they dodge half as much which means more DPS for you. This is also CC.
Chilled is MUCH more then snare. They attack 66% slower.
If you count blind as CC, which I do, then these 3 are all CC.

Not to mention all of this is just there. They don’t have to trait for it, use Utilities, etc…You said it yourself. Your warrior idea isn’t necessarily reality. This stuff is just there for a D/D Ele. They are free to use Utilities for whatever. In my case I take cantraps to make me even harder to kill.

Read to me where I called you a noob? In fact you are the one trying to call me a noob because I don’t understand the difference between CC or snare. However you don’t understand that half the CC’s you left out are more then a snare. So i would watch who you’re calling a noob.

I simply said you haven’t learned to play D/D to it’s fullest potential or are lieing to prove a point. Which appears to still be correct since you don’t consider many of the CC’s to be CC’s. If you don’t understand them to be CC’s then odds are you don’t understand what D/D Ele’s can do.

Shocking aura also isn’t effected by AoE caps so in theory you could stun 20 people 4 times int hat 4 seconds so and it’s not melee, it’s within 600 radius. It might be 400 radius, I forget the exact amount but think it’s 600.

I understand you fine and don’t worry about not being native to English. You speak English much better then I could ever hope to speak a second language.

Ele needs shorter attune swaps.

Ele in fire does respectable damage. Maybe not supreme, but respectable.
Then you have every other attunement. Which is really geared more towards a specific outcome (survival in earth for example is a reflection, the cripples, ETC. Air boasts CC, the pushback, the blind, the stun, and water is heals and a chill)

In a typical scenario, an elementalist will be in fire magic. He/She will then need to use some form of utility. Perhaps a monster has started running at our ele. Thinking quickly, they attune to earth and cripple the monster, while moving away. Our ele is safe for the moment, BUT now doing far less damage, as earth has less damage than fire.

Sadly our ele is now stuck in earth for another 10+ seconds. That’s 10 seconds of clearly lower DPS, without any utility to cover for it (as the other earth skills are now on cooldown)

Imagine a warrior in the same situation. He or she simply switches to a rifle, cripples the monster, and then switches back to greatsword. While in rifle, simply crippling, putting some vuln, and then a volley (which is more DPS than the greatsword auto attack for sure) takes up the 5 second weapon switch cooldown. The warrior has lost basically no DPS during the entire period.

No other class must give up so many seconds of their maximum damage for their utility. Only elementalists (ironic, as the class was supposed to be designed around switching for utility as a benefit rather than a negative)

Elementalists really only have 2 attunements – Fire, and waiting for fire

If they changed attunement cooldowns to 10 seconds untraited, and 4-5 traited (and then obviously nerfed certain traits that give effects on attunement swaps) the ele would be much better off. As you could now attune to gain utility for a specific situation, without feeling like you’re about to be useless for the next 10 seconds.

20 skills means jack kitten if 10 of them are for specific situations, and you give up a good portion of your damage if you want to tap into them.

If they did that they would need to nerf the attunement swap buffs though because I don’t think it currently has an internal CD. W/O an internal CD you’d be able to stack perma Might,Regen,Swiftness, and Protection without even needing to use duration ruins.

From a PvE perspective it does suck being slow to swap back into your Fire Att for dmg. In PvP though it’s not really a problem because all the utility skills are useful while waiting for fire to come back up.

How many classes are able to switch weapons faster then 10 second though? Honest question. The only one I can think of is Warrior and Engi..

@ Orikx

Shocking Aura -> Stun
“Only stuns enemies using attacks with range less than 600 units, with some exceptions " That is what you can read on gw2 wiki. But try it out. A ranger with longbow, a thief with pistol, engi with rifle, are for example this exceptions. I think that include all high and mid range weapons / spells.

That is the reason why I don`t count it because it work only in some settings. It is not a skill that will work if you hit.

Weakeness from Lightning Touch
Yes it is big especially against thiefs and warroirs. But one little mistake, if I understand it right. Only 50% from all non crit hits will be glancing blows with 50% dmg. Anyway everytime i am on air i try to lande it. But it land like the old fire grap so hit like **** when target is running.

Chilled
Is big too. But again a little mistake or i understand it wrong. They don`t attack 66% slower the recharge time of any skill is 66% slower. Don`t know if autoattacks included.

CC in General
Maybe it is a point of Definition what is cc and what not. I read a little bit and found defintions they said “cc is when you loose complete controle about your char” and i found definitons they said snare / immo a part of soft CC stun / knockdown / knockback are hard CC. Anyway i think it is different from game to game. Lets look what http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Crowd_control say.

You wrote “This stuff is just there for a D/D Ele. They are free to use Utilities for whatever.”
I wouldn`t say so. We paid it with some things. For example
- No weapon swap
- low base health
- low base armor
- High miss rate on many skills (air autoattack is nice )
- Stuck in one range
- High CD on hard CC and High CD on burst dmg

And other classes have cripple / chilled / weakness too maybe not all toghter but at least one or two of them with low CD. Or they choose 2 weapons complete without them. But then they got vulnerability or at least high dmg Output.

anyway, cripple chilled, weakness doesn`t help you when your Opponent just swap to a range weapon and give you much pressure only with autoattacks.

Calling a noob.
No you say it never direct to me. You just say that i don`t know the mechanism of my class. But for me is exactly this Point a huge part of being a noob.
No i didn`t call you a noob. I don`t know you, I did not fight against you. I said when i would talk like you i would say so.

so i think that was all. Thanks i try to write right but i think my gramma isn`t very well. Anyway when you understand what i mean it is enough.

I not going to sit here and argue with you about the effectiveness of every D/D skill. We’ll just have to agree to disagree.

I’ve already tried to help LordByron with the error of his ways and give him a half a dozen answers to countering a zerg ball only to have him say. Play in T1. I’m not going to sit in this thread and explain to you how to beat every class. Besides the fact thaqt the context of LordByrons arguement that you’ve decided to put yourself into is that D/D is useless in large scale WvW which is far from true.

With that being said. If you are getting kited and kill by anyone, while you are playing D/D then it seriously is a L2 kitten ue. I’ve never even remotely been close to being kited on my D/D. That goes back to what I said earlier with them being near impossible to catch. You should be able to harass Zergs and escape to live tell about it on a D/D Ele. So if you arguement is that class will switch to a ranged weapon and kite you. I suggest another class or weapon set becuase D/D may not be for you. There is no same in not being good at all classes or weapon sets. I stay away from my Engi because for the life of me I can’t be effective with it.

brickforlife.1364:

Confirmed that eles fear warriors.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Fear_Me!%22

Lol, well played sir.

edit:
@orixk don’t waste your time with the PVT heroes of this forum, they think they’re the ultimate elementalist players and won’t listen to any advice at all.

Larynx.2453:

It’s like I traveled back in time to September.

lol, you sir just made my night…ahh september, the time before most eles realized there was anything but fire spec….

eldain stenlund.4306:

sry.. i have not got my kitten handed to me by an elemental.
i play warrior mostly in www. so. they fear me. more than i fear them.

sry.. i have not got my kitten handed to me by an elemental.
i play warrior mostly in www. so. they fear me. more than i fear them.incompetent of playing this elemental class ? maybe.
i have got my elemental to lvl 11 as highest.. i have deleted that char spot countless times. all times after i have played the class a few mins, realising how incredibly much crap this elemental class realy are. then i hit delete button again.

Level 11, that explains it. Please sir do not think you understand a class enough, after just a few minutes, to make a “this class sucks” thread on the forums…it hurts the community.

eldain stenlund.4306:

iam saying, and iam not alone if looking around the forum. elemental class is stupidly badly designed. and weak.

On the flip side, many (including the devs if you watch the twitch feed) find the ele to be the strongest class in many different play styles in this game. Weak is a very relative term, all classes are weak in something, ele is strong in more than most classes are even able to attempt to accomplish.

LordByron.8369:

stuff (just because I thought it was funny the first time)

ugg….

uggg….

ugggg….

Byron, how many 80s do you have, what classes are they, and how many hours have you played on each? Not being a smart ellic here, this just really does sound like the arguments given by so many eles during the first month of play (after which, as you may know, they were near the top of the list for nerfs).