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Posted by: Daniel Handler.4816

Daniel Handler.4816

We can’t hit people inside keeps anymore >.< I don’t get the reasoning behind the change.

“Kentigem”-chief. Born cycle of Dusk. Wyld Hunt:
Learn as much mending and medical info as possible so that it can be added to the Dream.
Become the first Chief of Mending and guide the newly awaken as well as those who want to learn.

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Posted by: Kodiak.3281

Kodiak.3281

It’s a buff literally anywhere else but WvW.

Kodiak X – Blackgate

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Posted by: Coldtart.4785

Coldtart.4785

Because bypassing line of sight isn’t really a ‘good’ thing for gameplay and in 99% of cases being ground targeted is a buff.

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Posted by: Shadowflare.2759

Shadowflare.2759

Can’t tell if serious…Outside of that little gimmick, landing a dragon’s tooth reliably was hell because any decent player would notice the giant tooth above them and walk out of range.

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Posted by: SkiTz.4590

SkiTz.4590

We can’t hit people inside keeps anymore >.< I don’t get the reasoning behind the change.

Why the heck do you have on a scepter in WvW when staff is 100 times better….?? unless you are solo roaming around looking for duels/1v1s…

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Posted by: morrolan.9608

morrolan.9608

Hope they decrease the time it takes to land, cause ground targeted with the current time is way too long

Jade Quarry [SoX]
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro

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Posted by: morrolan.9608

morrolan.9608

We can’t hit people inside keeps anymore >.< I don’t get the reasoning behind the change.

Why the heck do you have on a scepter in WvW when staff is 100 times better….?? unless you are solo roaming around looking for duels/1v1s…

Er we switch to scepter to take down siege.

Jade Quarry [SoX]
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro

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Posted by: Daniel Handler.4816

Daniel Handler.4816

Can’t tell if serious…Outside of that little gimmick, landing a dragon’s tooth reliably was hell because any decent player would notice the giant tooth above them and walk out of range.

Ah so the buff was for indirect area denial. I place DT on myself, so they are less inclined to approach. And for easier use of its combo finisher ability.

As for your comment. I don’t see how making it ground targeted helps in any way other then the above indirect area denial.

What I am trying to say is you are trading a unique ability that is helpful in wvw, essentially to enhance its blast capability, something the elementalist already excels at.

And nerf in wvw for a buff in pve is not a net buff.

“Kentigem”-chief. Born cycle of Dusk. Wyld Hunt:
Learn as much mending and medical info as possible so that it can be added to the Dream.
Become the first Chief of Mending and guide the newly awaken as well as those who want to learn.

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Posted by: Jski.6180

Jski.6180

It’s a buff literally anywhere else but WvW.

So 1/3 of the game hehe i can see some use for the DT in wvw even with the changes really good bombing and running tool as you start to cast and fall back before the full cast happens.

There was only a few places that only DT worked DS from necro hits most places. That and now with the AC changes its not as needed.

Main : Jski Imaginary ELE (Necromancer)
Guild : OBEY (The Legacy) I call it Obay , TLC (WvW) , UNIV (other)
Server : FA

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Posted by: Vesrys.6819

Vesrys.6819

So you are calling it a nerf because they are essentially removing exploit in a sense that you can’t LOS and remove siege anymore? You’re funny

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Posted by: Fay.2357

Fay.2357

Yeah, this functionality was considered broken for quite a few other skills. Dragon’s tooth was the only remaining skill that could be exploited in this way, and now it’s gone. Good fix.

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Posted by: Conncept.7638

Conncept.7638

So you are calling it a nerf because they are essentially removing exploit in a sense that you can’t LOS and remove siege anymore? You’re funny

At least he isn’t bitter and totally misinformed. It was not an exploit, the developers even said so when asked about the same functionality on Impale. Not every skill requires line of sight, and if it doesn’t, that’s because it was made that way on purpose, that’s not functionality that can just randomly happen on its own. But just because something isn’t a bug or an exploit doesn’t mean the developers like it or intend to keep its functionality, as we learned with fire field stacking.

That said, I’ve wanted this change forever, as an enemy targeted skill Dragon’s Tooth was totally worthless for everything but this one strategy.

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Posted by: Jski.6180

Jski.6180

All though it may still not need LOS much like gurd line from staff 5 you can use it though walls and doors as long as you can see the other side. So zoming out and ground targeting your DT maybe still a thing and it maybe better then it use to be.

Main : Jski Imaginary ELE (Necromancer)
Guild : OBEY (The Legacy) I call it Obay , TLC (WvW) , UNIV (other)
Server : FA

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Posted by: Shadowflare.2759

Shadowflare.2759

Can’t tell if serious…Outside of that little gimmick, landing a dragon’s tooth reliably was hell because any decent player would notice the giant tooth above them and walk out of range.

Ah so the buff was for indirect area denial. I place DT on myself, so they are less inclined to approach. And for easier use of its combo finisher ability.

As for your comment. I don’t see how making it ground targeted helps in any way other then the above indirect area denial.

What I am trying to say is you are trading a unique ability that is helpful in wvw, essentially to enhance its blast capability, something the elementalist already excels at.

And nerf in wvw for a buff in pve is not a net buff.

This is a buff for PvP more than WvW or PvE, I’m not sure why you think this was targetted at PvE.

Changing it to ground targeted means that I can anticipate where enemies will go and target that, rather than having it be placed right at the position where the enemy currently is (and which they probably won’t be by the time that DT lands, if they’re even just walking).

As of now, if you want the DT to hit anything you have to move yourself under it just to try and bait people to stay in the target area, or pray that the enemy is not paying attention while they’re trying to fight on a capture point.

I’d take this added reliability when used against players than that gimmick you use vs stationary siege anyday.

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Posted by: Tei.1704

Tei.1704

Changing it to ground targeted means that I can anticipate where enemies will go and target that, rather than having it be placed right at the position where the enemy currently is (and which they probably won’t be by the time that DT lands, if they’re even just walking).

What makes people think enemy players will continue to walk right under the dragon tooth? You can anticipate all you want, but you’re still dealing with a 1 second cast time and 2 second delay afterwards. Without cc, it will always be a matter of whether the enemy wants to avoid the hit or not.

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Posted by: Coldtart.4785

Coldtart.4785

With ground targeting you can place it such that ‘whether the enemy wants to avoid the hit or not’ is a more difficult choice.

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Posted by: Daniel Handler.4816

Daniel Handler.4816

Can’t tell if serious…Outside of that little gimmick, landing a dragon’s tooth reliably was hell because any decent player would notice the giant tooth above them and walk out of range.

Ah so the buff was for indirect area denial. I place DT on myself, so they are less inclined to approach. And for easier use of its combo finisher ability.

As for your comment. I don’t see how making it ground targeted helps in any way other then the above indirect area denial.

What I am trying to say is you are trading a unique ability that is helpful in wvw, essentially to enhance its blast capability, something the elementalist already excels at.

And nerf in wvw for a buff in pve is not a net buff.

This is a buff for PvP more than WvW or PvE, I’m not sure why you think this was targetted at PvE.

Changing it to ground targeted means that I can anticipate where enemies will go and target that, rather than having it be placed right at the position where the enemy currently is (and which they probably won’t be by the time that DT lands, if they’re even just walking).

As of now, if you want the DT to hit anything you have to move yourself under it just to try and bait people to stay in the target area, or pray that the enemy is not paying attention while they’re trying to fight on a capture point.

I’d take this added reliability when used against players than that gimmick you use vs stationary siege anyday.

For PvE this a a blast finisher that requires camera mischief to use easily. With the change one can blast ooc and not have to move themselves forward to for example put a ring of fire under the tooth.

In PvP if the enemy is on the capture point then the tooth will be summoned on the capture point. In any other predictive instance the falling of the tooth is too slow. So this becomes more about area denial. Using the tooth like other damaging aoes to encourage the enemy to move along a certain path. You wouldn’t stand in a necro well and you want then not to stand in the area where the tooth will fall.

But all that means is that you trade an extremely useful ability in wvw (the new borders further block line of sight to enemy siege) for a generic ability in PvE and a generic ability in PvP.

“Kentigem”-chief. Born cycle of Dusk. Wyld Hunt:
Learn as much mending and medical info as possible so that it can be added to the Dream.
Become the first Chief of Mending and guide the newly awaken as well as those who want to learn.

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Posted by: Mem no Fushia.7604

Mem no Fushia.7604

They could give button on top of that skill to easily change between normal and ground targeted.

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Posted by: Jski.6180

Jski.6180

They could give button on top of that skill to easily change between normal and ground targeted.

Best just to keep the LoS off in that you can dt in places you can see yet do not have LoS like gurd line of warding (though a lot of ppl seem not to know this trick).

Main : Jski Imaginary ELE (Necromancer)
Guild : OBEY (The Legacy) I call it Obay , TLC (WvW) , UNIV (other)
Server : FA

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Posted by: Shadowflare.2759

Shadowflare.2759

Can’t tell if serious…Outside of that little gimmick, landing a dragon’s tooth reliably was hell because any decent player would notice the giant tooth above them and walk out of range.

Ah so the buff was for indirect area denial. I place DT on myself, so they are less inclined to approach. And for easier use of its combo finisher ability.

As for your comment. I don’t see how making it ground targeted helps in any way other then the above indirect area denial.

What I am trying to say is you are trading a unique ability that is helpful in wvw, essentially to enhance its blast capability, something the elementalist already excels at.

And nerf in wvw for a buff in pve is not a net buff.

This is a buff for PvP more than WvW or PvE, I’m not sure why you think this was targetted at PvE.

Changing it to ground targeted means that I can anticipate where enemies will go and target that, rather than having it be placed right at the position where the enemy currently is (and which they probably won’t be by the time that DT lands, if they’re even just walking).

As of now, if you want the DT to hit anything you have to move yourself under it just to try and bait people to stay in the target area, or pray that the enemy is not paying attention while they’re trying to fight on a capture point.

I’d take this added reliability when used against players than that gimmick you use vs stationary siege anyday.

For PvE this a a blast finisher that requires camera mischief to use easily. With the change one can blast ooc and not have to move themselves forward to for example put a ring of fire under the tooth.

In PvP if the enemy is on the capture point then the tooth will be summoned on the capture point. In any other predictive instance the falling of the tooth is too slow. So this becomes more about area denial. Using the tooth like other damaging aoes to encourage the enemy to move along a certain path. You wouldn’t stand in a necro well and you want then not to stand in the area where the tooth will fall.

But all that means is that you trade an extremely useful ability in wvw (the new borders further block line of sight to enemy siege) for a generic ability in PvE and a generic ability in PvP.

In PvP, if an enemy is constantly moving, or if it’s a thief or mesmer who you may not be able to target all the time, I’d rather be able to target exactly where I would want the tooth to drop. Yes, it is an area denial, but at the same time it decreases the instances where casting it does no good whatsoever since the enemy happen to be at a spot where they’re unlikely to stay in, or if they’re simply untargettable.

The fact that we no longer have to rely on camera tricks to make it go where we want in itself is a buff. It is a nerf in situations where you have no LOS, but honestly that was a gimmick I’m willing to part with if it means I get more control over my skills.

Changing it to ground targeted means that I can anticipate where enemies will go and target that, rather than having it be placed right at the position where the enemy currently is (and which they probably won’t be by the time that DT lands, if they’re even just walking).

What makes people think enemy players will continue to walk right under the dragon tooth? You can anticipate all you want, but you’re still dealing with a 1 second cast time and 2 second delay afterwards. Without cc, it will always be a matter of whether the enemy wants to avoid the hit or not.

Except as of now, if the enemy is moving, which they should be, they wouldn’t even need to go out of their way to avoid your DT, they can just continue moving wherever they want to and have it fall behind them.

If I can target it myself, at the very least I can force a dodge, or if they were trying to escape, I slow them down since they cannot just run straight forward. Even better, now I can combo DT as an area denial or as a trap.

(edited by Shadowflare.2759)

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Posted by: Mem no Fushia.7604

Mem no Fushia.7604

They could give button on top of that skill to easily change between normal and ground targeted.

Best just to keep the LoS off in that you can dt in places you can see yet do not have LoS like gurd line of warding (though a lot of ppl seem not to know this trick).

If they could suprise us and actually keep the los turned off it would be good.

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Posted by: Jski.6180

Jski.6180

They could give button on top of that skill to easily change between normal and ground targeted.

Best just to keep the LoS off in that you can dt in places you can see yet do not have LoS like gurd line of warding (though a lot of ppl seem not to know this trick).

If they could suprise us and actually keep the los turned off it would be good.

If they are working with non los effect i would not mind seeing Comet become the same way as DT and maybe WoF to give it that added kick that it seems to be missing.

Main : Jski Imaginary ELE (Necromancer)
Guild : OBEY (The Legacy) I call it Obay , TLC (WvW) , UNIV (other)
Server : FA

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Posted by: Glenstorm.4059

Glenstorm.4059

They could give button on top of that skill to easily change between normal and ground targeted.

Best just to keep the LoS off in that you can dt in places you can see yet do not have LoS like gurd line of warding (though a lot of ppl seem not to know this trick).

If they could suprise us and actually keep the los turned off it would be good.

If they are working with non los effect i would not mind seeing Comet become the same way as DT and maybe WoF to give it that added kick that it seems to be missing.

Nah, I think Comet actually works better the way it is. Its cast time is so quick that you don’t really miss with it that often, and you can’t really use it for area denial. Besides, its primary effect (Daze) is not something you want to waste by risking a miss, considering the skill’s long cool down, so best to leave it in its current state (fire-and-forget.)

Fear the might of SHATTERSTONE.

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Posted by: Cristobal.8640

Cristobal.8640

I liked DT on-target, even for pvp. You could just target the right people, usually someone trying to ress, and cast it without LOS while moving the other way and focusing yourself and your view somewhere else. Lands more often than not in team fights anyway. I hope they make it fall twice as fast

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Posted by: TheQuickFox.3826

TheQuickFox.3826

I would like to keep Dragon Tooth as it is, because I like selecting a player/siege and attacking it out of sight in WvW.

Ascalon will prevail!

GW Wiki user page  |  GW2 Wiki user page

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Posted by: Daniel Handler.4816

Daniel Handler.4816

Can’t tell if serious…Outside of that little gimmick, landing a dragon’s tooth reliably was hell because any decent player would notice the giant tooth above them and walk out of range.

Ah so the buff was for indirect area denial. I place DT on myself, so they are less inclined to approach. And for easier use of its combo finisher ability.

As for your comment. I don’t see how making it ground targeted helps in any way other then the above indirect area denial.

What I am trying to say is you are trading a unique ability that is helpful in wvw, essentially to enhance its blast capability, something the elementalist already excels at.

And nerf in wvw for a buff in pve is not a net buff.

This is a buff for PvP more than WvW or PvE, I’m not sure why you think this was targetted at PvE.

Changing it to ground targeted means that I can anticipate where enemies will go and target that, rather than having it be placed right at the position where the enemy currently is (and which they probably won’t be by the time that DT lands, if they’re even just walking).

As of now, if you want the DT to hit anything you have to move yourself under it just to try and bait people to stay in the target area, or pray that the enemy is not paying attention while they’re trying to fight on a capture point.

I’d take this added reliability when used against players than that gimmick you use vs stationary siege anyday.

For PvE this a a blast finisher that requires camera mischief to use easily. With the change one can blast ooc and not have to move themselves forward to for example put a ring of fire under the tooth.

In PvP if the enemy is on the capture point then the tooth will be summoned on the capture point. In any other predictive instance the falling of the tooth is too slow. So this becomes more about area denial. Using the tooth like other damaging aoes to encourage the enemy to move along a certain path. You wouldn’t stand in a necro well and you want then not to stand in the area where the tooth will fall.

But all that means is that you trade an extremely useful ability in wvw (the new borders further block line of sight to enemy siege) for a generic ability in PvE and a generic ability in PvP.

In PvP, if an enemy is constantly moving, or if it’s a thief or mesmer who you may not be able to target all the time, I’d rather be able to target exactly where I would want the tooth to drop. Yes, it is an area denial, but at the same time it decreases the instances where casting it does no good whatsoever since the enemy happen to be at a spot where they’re unlikely to stay in, or if they’re simply untargettable.

The fact that we no longer have to rely on camera tricks to make it go where we want in itself is a buff. It is a nerf in situations where you have no LOS, but honestly that was a gimmick I’m willing to part with if it means I get more control over my skills.

Changing it to ground targeted means that I can anticipate where enemies will go and target that, rather than having it be placed right at the position where the enemy currently is (and which they probably won’t be by the time that DT lands, if they’re even just walking).

What makes people think enemy players will continue to walk right under the dragon tooth? You can anticipate all you want, but you’re still dealing with a 1 second cast time and 2 second delay afterwards. Without cc, it will always be a matter of whether the enemy wants to avoid the hit or not.

Except as of now, if the enemy is moving, which they should be, they wouldn’t even need to go out of their way to avoid your DT, they can just continue moving wherever they want to and have it fall behind them.

If I can target it myself, at the very least I can force a dodge, or if they were trying to escape, I slow them down since they cannot just run straight forward. Even better, now I can combo DT as an area denial or as a trap.

If the person is on the point, and it isn’t the middle of legacy of the foefire, they will either leave the point, or get hit. If the person is not on the point, and you feel you need to ground target to hit, remember how well we can land ice spike?

The process of ground targeting already adds time to a long skill. And we lose the ability to protect ourselves with los.

“Kentigem”-chief. Born cycle of Dusk. Wyld Hunt:
Learn as much mending and medical info as possible so that it can be added to the Dream.
Become the first Chief of Mending and guide the newly awaken as well as those who want to learn.

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Posted by: BlackBeard.2873

BlackBeard.2873

If the person is on the point, and it isn’t the middle of legacy of the foefire, they will either leave the point, or get hit. If the person is not on the point, and you feel you need to ground target to hit, remember how well we can land ice spike?

The process of ground targeting already adds time to a long skill. And we lose the ability to protect ourselves with los.

The aoe doesn’t cover the whole point, and it is currently difficult to try and time it such that the person is in the middle (giving you the maximum area denial). 90% of the time the person just moved to the other side (still on point) as it was cast way off-center, or ate it b/c they got distracted by all your other pressure skills.

With ground targeting, DT gains:
- No more needing to wait for you opponent to kindly enter your fire field so that you get your might. This makes the skill useful as a controllable blast finisher on 4s CD (with pyromancer’s training). I can now quite reliably get 2x Dragon’s tooth inside my ring of fire, for more, might-y goodness, which wasn’t doable before b/c people would run away from the ring.
- No more playing camera tricks which only work 50% of the time as-is (angling camera straight up with no target sometimes dropped it right on your head)
- No more being thwarted by stealth-resses that prevent you from unleashing major downed pressure even though you know where they are
- Greater offensive pressure as a form of defense by dropping DT’s on your head if you are expecting a stealth burst
- MUCH greater area control to force your opponent into the part of the point you want, or else eat the DT and probably die.

With fast-cast targeting it adds exactly 0 time to casting.

(edited by BlackBeard.2873)

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Posted by: Shadowflare.2759

Shadowflare.2759

If the person is on the point, and it isn’t the middle of legacy of the foefire, they will either leave the point, or get hit. If the person is not on the point, and you feel you need to ground target to hit, remember how well we can land ice spike?

The process of ground targeting already adds time to a long skill. And we lose the ability to protect ourselves with los.

The aoe doesn’t cover the whole point, and it is currently difficult to try and time it such that the person is in the middle (giving you the maximum area denial). 90% of the time the person just moved to the other side (still on point) as it was cast way off-center, or ate it b/c they got distracted by all your other pressure skills.

With ground targeting, DT gains:
- No more needing to wait for you opponent to kindly enter your fire field so that you get your might. This makes the skill useful as a controllable blast finisher on 4s CD (with pyromancer’s training). I can now quite reliably get 2x Dragon’s tooth inside my ring of fire, for more, might-y goodness, which wasn’t doable before b/c people would run away from the ring.
- No more playing camera tricks which only work 50% of the time as-is (angling camera straight up with no target sometimes dropped it right on your head)
- No more being thwarted by stealth-resses that prevent you from unleashing major downed pressure even though you know where they are
- Greater offensive pressure as a form of defense by dropping DT’s on your head if you are expecting a stealth burst
- MUCH greater area control to force your opponent into the part of the point you want, or else eat the DT and probably die.

With fast-cast targeting it adds exactly 0 time to casting.

This. Blackbeard’s got it covered here.

There are some nice tricks you can do without needing the LOS, but that’s what they are, unreliable tricks. We’re gaining more control over DT, I see that as a positive thing overall.