Guild Wars 2

today i dueled with a warrior for quite some time and he told me that all classes are almost on par right now but it just feels so much harder on elementalist than on some other classes. so is elementalist underpowered or do i just suck?

renss.5764:

today i dueled with a warrior for quite some time and he told me that all classes are almost on par right now but it just feels so much harder on elementalist than on some other classes. so is elementalist underpowered or do i just suck?

The fact you heard this from a warrior gives him no credibility. They can be immune to conditions, condition classes can’t touch them, they have an overpowered trait that gives them 50% crit chance while opponent is stunned, they can run away quickly and do more damage than an elementalist can while having twice as much vitality and more toughness.

The two classes that need buffs are ranger and elementalist. I would also like to see siphon builds for necromancers to become viable in wvw/pvp. Buff those first two, bring down the warrior and you have a much more balanced game.

FrownyClown.8402:

renss.5764:

today i dueled with a warrior for quite some time and he told me that all classes are almost on par right now but it just feels so much harder on elementalist than on some other classes. so is elementalist underpowered or do i just suck?

The fact you heard this from a warrior gives him no credibility. They can be immune to conditions, condition classes can’t touch them, they have an overpowered trait that gives them 50% crit chance while opponent is stunned, they can run away quickly and do more damage than an elementalist can while having twice as much vitality and more toughness.

The two classes that need buffs are ranger and elementalist. I would also like to see siphon builds for necromancers to become viable in wvw/pvp. Buff those first two, bring down the warrior and you have a much more balanced game.

Unsuspecting foe isn’t overpowered it requires the stun first. Almost every class has ways to boost critical chance that allows them to spec survivability or some other stat. Those are usually some of the most popular builds.

Warriors and ele’s where a pretty even fight before Warrior got buffs.

I am not saying ele doesn’t need some buff love I think it does but if you played a warrior before it got it’s buffs then you would know that Warrior was nothing more than a really squishy thief with no invisibility. No staying power and died or had run because of condition pressure pretty easily.

As far as WvW went you mostly ran Hammer PvT which has pretty much been the same since launch because of unsuspecting foe(nobody complained about the trait back before warriors got a buff it has always been the same since launch).

Or you ran Axe/Shield GS roaming build but where still pretty squishy and you went in did a couple moves had to run out and wait for long cooldowns to come off. If it was heavy condi you had to wait for your signet of stamina to come back up, your endure pain was 90 seconds.

Just putting it out there that Warrior was pretty difficult to do anything with beside zerging or PvE. It was ok in roaming but as soon as it was 1v2 you had no staying power if endure pain was on cooldown.

If you look at Avliss earlier videos (popular warrior youtube guy) alot of his fights where winnable 1v2 at most 1v3’s. It was alot of running away disengage waiting for healing surge to come up. That is how warrior use to be.

The real problem alot of people have with warrior is Mace/Shield stun locking. If warriors didn’t have that set I don’t think many people would call warrior overpowered. Then it would just be they are tanky with easily telegraphed moves.

renss.5764:

today i dueled with a warrior for quite some time and he told me that all classes are almost on par right now but it just feels so much harder on elementalist than on some other classes. so is elementalist underpowered or do i just suck?

Ele is on par with other classes. We just used to be overpowered for some time, but then we got nerfed, and while a certain few nerfs were un-warranted, we are very capable of beating anything.

Of course ele is on par

That’s why absolutely no eles were used by any teams in the last major Tournament which I can’t remember the name of.

Because we’re so

On par..

And can accomplish one aspect of combat better than any other classes..

Dying..

Please remove ICD on Cleansing Water and Glyph of Elemental Power.

Please remove the double CD on RTL.

Please remove the inability to cap in Mist Form.

Please bring back the stunbreaks to LF and CF.

Please delete Glyph of Renewal and Glyph of Elemental Power.

I could go on but as you can see, there are so many limitations/drawbacks on a lot of skills for the ele right now that they are so kitten at doing anything comparable to what other classes can do.

And warrior? An ele on par with warrior? You have GOT to be kidding me.

Ele’s were never overpowered. They were designed with disadvantages back in the day when healing was powerful and AE wasn’t limited to 5 players. The AE Cap was put into place and the healing crippled, but the disadvantages for them remained.

There is nothing the Elementalist can do that warrants their life pool and armor values. We don’t have stealth like the thief to reset the fight and don’t have the base survivability and armor to take the beating like the guardian.

The fact that they nerfed all our Mobility just shows how little disregard ANet has for the class. If they had done the same thing to Warriors, Rangers, and Thieves then it would have still been wrong, but at least it wouldn’t have been as blatantly hypocritical.

The only way we beat other classes is to put in twice the effort and use three to four times the abilities. Anyone that is good at elementalist would perform far better playing any other class.

Is this a bait? Or perhaps that guy was simply trolling you.

The professions are nowhere near on par with each other for dueling. Warrior can have an absurd amount of completely passive regen for a 1v1 fight. I have an easier time killing bunker guardians, stealth spamming thieves and staff mesmers that do nothing but teleport and stealth just because those things can actually be counter-played in some way. Those professions and builds have to use some active defense to survive, but a warrior just sits on passive regen, high hp and armor while spamming damage and cc. Skull crack is simply overpowered in a 1v1 fight; it’s a hardly telegraphed 3 second stun with a 10 second base cooldown. I could go on, but you get the idea.

Group balance is ok for the most part. Aoe conditions, cc and stability are getting out of hand, but every class can run multiple builds in groups and has a place. Necros, condi engi and stun warriors still feel pretty op though. I swear a lot of group fights feel won the moment the enemy’s condition and/or cc spammers die.

Muppet.6485:

Of course ele is on par

That’s why absolutely no eles were used by any teams in the last major Tournament which I can’t remember the name of.

Because we’re so

On par..

And can accomplish one aspect of combat better than any other classes..

Dying..

As much as I agree with this… I hate when ppl say it. Pve/wvw and pvp should be completely separate when discussing anything about any class.

That being said, war in its current state is near godly when played right, which isn’t a hard task. Ele can also be extremely effective when played correctly. But at that point vs any other class it comes down to the ele having to straight up outplay their opponent. The amount of “skill” any other class has to bring to a fight doesn’t require more than spamming “x” and maybe “x,y”.

The fact that wars can go with a hammer stun build and almost be on par with a guardian bunker build, and still be able to do almost as much dmg as a thief and have better mobility than any other class, is absurd. Not even adding in the fact that the amount of stuns they have access to is just kittened. Even the launch ele would find fighting the current wars challenging.

currently, theres is no such thing as 1vs1 class balance. So no, Ele is not on par (especially if compared to Warrior…)

oZii.2864:

If you look at Avliss earlier videos (popular warrior youtube guy) alot of his fights where winnable 1v2 at most 1v3’s. It was alot of running away disengage waiting for healing surge to come up. That is how warrior use to be.

That’s also how ele used to be. They nerfed ele, but buffed warrior… how does that make sense?

Also compare Unsuspecting Foe (10P trait if I remember correctly, wtf) to Ele’s 30P trait Tempest Defense. Tempest defense adds 20% damage to stunned and knocked down targets (the other effect is rubbish). We have one stun (Shocking Aura, 25s CD) which lasts 1s and can easily be avoided and one 2s knock-down (Earth Quake, 45 CD). Meaning that the time where the trait is active is nearly zero.
Now Unsuspecting Foe: The Mace F-spell alone will stun targets for 3-4s with a 8s(?) CD. And the trait adds about 45% overall damage to stunned foes (nearly 100% crit-chance overall and approximately 50+40% via traits and amulett=190% damage on crits -> 50% of your spells will deal 90% more damage). It’s ridiculous in comparison. And there are tons of traits and utilities which are same in design but far better on warrior than on ele. Additionally warriors got highest armor and base HP and eles lowest armor and HP. Don’t know what Anet was/is smoking when balancing classes.

Grevender.9235:

currently, theres is no such thing as 1vs1 class balance. So no, Ele is not on par (especially if compared to Warrior…)

not only currently, 1v1 balance never existed and whats more important it was never even planned. Meanwhile Colin said that anet wants to add duel option somewhere in the (probably far) future. I hope they will introduce a third 1v1 set of combat rules different from sPvp and wvw cuz those 2 obviously cannot be used for fair 1v1.
Also imho combat in this game is starting to be fun and somehow advanced when 2v2 or better 3v3, 1v1 is just boring Build Wars 2 – ofc assuming quite high player skill level.

1vs1 is by far the oldest and most important form of fight, it really puzzles me that a game of this level was launched without strongly focusing on it.

Grevender.9235:

1vs1 is by far the oldest and most important form of fight, it really puzzles me that a game of this level was launched without strongly focusing on it.

there are team games, for example soccer where each player has his role like goalkeeper, defender, attacker etc. and there are 1v1 games like chess.

I don’t care about 1v1 balance, I care about class performance. We have no means to stop or escape from classes such as the warrior, thief, and guardian. All our CC has become highly unreliable and those classes have far more mobility.

We are always on the defensive in that we always have to stop DPSing to cleanse or heal while other classes can dps us down through our ‘on par’ damage output and THEN cleanse or heal.

sPvP has its own ruleset, I don’t know why the hell ANET keeps making changes to balance sPvP and applying it to the rest of the game.

What they need to do is add more Utility, Elite, and Trait options that are WvW focused that could be purchased with WvW rank points. This game was setup perfectly to allow them to continuously release new abilities, since you are limited in the total number of abilities you can have active. Yet ANet continues to ignore this obvious method to balance the classes.

Taldren.7523:

What they need to do is add more Utility, Elite, and Trait options that are WvW focused that could be purchased with WvW rank points.

personaly I dont want time based obtainable power. A player who played wvw 5x as much as me should not have better stats as me or access to better abilities.
This will kill any kind of balance. Its like giving an experienced F1 driver a car with 100 more horese power just because he experienced Ofc he will then become top racer and will all possible races even when he is less skilled that ppl with standard F1 cars. This is what kills any eSport and this stupidity does not exist in any standard sport discipline. Just the fact that you are experienced must be enought for you to win, not some better stats or OP skills on skills bar.

Taldren.7523:

This game was setup perfectly to allow them to continuously release new abilities, since you are limited in the total number of abilities you can have active. Yet ANet continues to ignore this obvious method to balance the classes.

Anet made is like that in GW1 but fortunately resigned from this mehcanism in GW2.

Lavadiel.6231:

there are team games, for example soccer where each player has his role like goalkeeper, defender, attacker etc.

I have yet to see a soccer team deploying three/four-armed goalkeepers, bazooka-equipped attackers or defenders geared in fullplate steel armor.
Balance is not in the role.

Grevender.9235:

Lavadiel.6231:

there are team games, for example soccer where each player has his role like goalkeeper, defender, attacker etc.

I have yet to see a soccer team deploying three/four-armed goalkeepers, bazooka-equipped attackers or defenders geared in fullplate steel armor.
Balance is not in the role.

armour hast nothing to do here… I just said thet there are two basic kinds of games, 1v1 and team games. GW2 is obviously a team game and has no 1v1 balance, same as soccer where there is also no balance in 1 striker vs 1 goalkeeper yet the game as a whole is perfectly (symmetrically) balanced.

No ele have a too huge drawback to be comparable to any other profession.

Its called attunements.
Your 20 skills are not good for you if 15 are Always out of your reaction window.
Ele is a proactive profession and as such should be stronger in rewards.

For some reasons since proactive play is obviously strong against predictable situations and extremely weak against unpredictable, got nerfed into the weakest.
(i.e. predictable players complaining)

Also the way how skills are carefully put in each attunement (as further drawback) makes me think that devs who designed the professions are not the same in charge of balance that doesn t seem to grasp the concept.

Lavadiel.6231:

personaly I dont want time based obtainable power. A player who played wvw 5x as much as me should not have better stats as me or access to better abilities.
This will kill any kind of balance. Its like giving an experienced F1 driver a car with 100 more horese power just because he experienced Ofc he will then become top racer and will all possible races even when he is less skilled that ppl with standard F1 cars. This is what kills any eSport and this stupidity does not exist in any standard sport discipline. Just the fact that you are experienced must be enought for you to win, not some better stats or OP skills on skills bar.

You want NASCAR you can sPvP.

If I dedicate to WvW I expect to have more options available to me as a WvW player then someone from PvE or sPvP that is vacationing in WvW once in a while.

You have the same abilities I do and use then just as often as I do. What experience are you talking about that should make a WvW player better at WvW then some achievement hunter that is currently locking me in a queue and thus preventing me from playing the only aspect of the game I care for?

That is like saying that if I spend 10 times a week playing chess in a bedroom while you spend 10 times a week playing chess in a living room, that my experience with playing chess in a bedroom should give me an advantage if we play against each other in a bedroom. Your argument is complete bs.

In sports a player isn’t barred from making one aspect of their game better by conditioning/training for it with a time investment.

LordByron.8369:

Also the way how skills are carefully put in each attunement (as further drawback) makes me think that devs who designed the professions are not the same in charge of balance that doesn t seem to grasp the concept.

I also think the devs changed or suffer from dissociative identity disorder.

Taldren.7523:

Lavadiel.6231:

personaly I dont want time based obtainable power. A player who played wvw 5x as much as me should not have better stats as me or access to better abilities.
This will kill any kind of balance. Its like giving an experienced F1 driver a car with 100 more horese power just because he experienced Ofc he will then become top racer and will all possible races even when he is less skilled that ppl with standard F1 cars. This is what kills any eSport and this stupidity does not exist in any standard sport discipline. Just the fact that you are experienced must be enought for you to win, not some better stats or OP skills on skills bar.

You want NASCAR you can sPvP.

If I dedicate to WvW I expect to have more options available to me as a WvW player then someone from PvE or sPvP that is vacationing in WvW once in a while.

You have the same abilities I do and use then just as often as I do. What experience are you talking about that should make a WvW player better at WvW then some achievement hunter that is currently locking me in a queue and thus preventing me from playing the only aspect of the game I care for?

That is like saying that if I spend 10 times a week playing chess in a bedroom while you spend 10 times a week playing chess in a living room, that my experience with playing chess in a bedroom should give me an advantage if we play against each other in a bedroom. Your argument is complete bs.

In sports a player isn’t barred from making one aspect of their game better by conditioning/training for it with a time investment.

what I am saying is that giving better stats or abilities to a player with more game hours is idiotic. In good games (like for example Go game) the begginer has even a head start, he can put some stones before the game starts and the amount of the handicap stones depends on the skill difference between the players.
What I understand you proposed is the exact oposite, the experienced players gets better stats/abbilities
According to this nonsense in soccer for example the better with more game hours team will get additional 2 players, smaller goal, and a free eleven penalty before the game starts. Unfortunatly this is how most of the mmo games work.

Lavadiel.6231:

What I understand you proposed is the exact oposite, the experienced players gets better stats/abbilities
According to this nonsense in soccer for example the better with more game hours team will get additional 2 players, smaller goal, and a free eleven penalty before the game starts. Unfortunatly this is how most of the mmo games work.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Guard_Leech
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Applied_Fortitude

and then there’s also this, but it’s not really related to how much gametime you’ve had
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Power_of_the_Mists

WvW 1v1’s are never fair, adding utility skills wouldn’t be so far fetched imo, maybe a WvW signet that makes stun do damage overtime and have increased duration? or maybe 500+ power when wielding a hammer?

@pOmf.5216

yep, guardLeech and AppliedFortitude is for sure the idea of the “new” dev team L.Byron was talking about.

Lavadiel.6231:

[
what I am saying is that giving better stats or abilities to a player with more game hours is idiotic. In good games (like for example Go game) the begginer has even a head start, he can put some stones before the game starts and the amount of the handicap stones depends on the skill difference between the players.
What I understand you proposed is the exact oposite, the experienced players gets better stats/abbilities
According to this nonsense in soccer for example the better with more game hours team will get additional 2 players, smaller goal, and a free eleven penalty before the game starts. Unfortunatly this is how most of the mmo games work.

No, you give different utility, elite, trait options to those put the work in. You need to stop this whole gamer welfare nonsense.

You make it sound like you can go afk in WvW and 100 hours later be better than new players that just enter WvW.

Your ‘experienced’ argument is a strawman. Experience caps out at such a low level in this game that it has almost no place in any WvW argument. There is no experience that can help you in WvW that you can’t learn outside WvW.

I would have to give up a utility to use a WvW gained utility, so it isn’t like my ability is going to completely own my previous one … they are still power balanced for the slot they fill. They are just more specific to what that class needs in WvW.

Ele can compete with most other classes/builds out there (at least for WvW), although other classes have more room for error and are perhaps easier to play. That said, ele’s have a lot of active defensive mechanics that a knowledgeable player can put to good use. A good ele should beat a bad warrior any day.

pOmf.5216:

Most duels are done without stacks, where the only inbalance might be bloodlust, which is at most 60 stats.

You say:

Ele can compete with most other classes/builds out there (at least for WvW)

then proceed to say:

…other classes have more room for error and are perhaps easier to play

In summary … they can compete, but are at a disadvantage from the start.

Well yeah, they aren’t a one shot and won’t go down without a fight … but you are saying the same thing we are in the end. We are tired of putting in all this effort to only come out behind or just barely beat out those that aren’t even trying as hard.

You can’t even make your argument solid as you ended with:

A good ele should beat a bad warrior any day.

Kyskythyn.6471:

pOmf.5216:

Most duels are done without stacks, where the only inbalance might be bloodlust, which is at most 60 stats.

so you’re saying power of the mists aka more vitality, endurance regen, and healing power, doesn’t help at all and the only imbalance is from guard stacks?

pOmf.5216:

Kyskythyn.6471:

pOmf.5216:

Most duels are done without stacks, where the only inbalance might be bloodlust, which is at most 60 stats.

so you’re saying power of the mists aka more vitality, endurance regen, and healing power, doesn’t help at all and the only imbalance is from guard stacks?

They do affect fights, but unless the matchup is a complete blowout, the difference between the buffs is rather negligible.

Taldren.7523:

You say:

Ele can compete with most other classes/builds out there (at least for WvW)

then proceed to say:

…other classes have more room for error and are perhaps easier to play

In summary … they can compete, but are at a disadvantage from the start.

Well yeah, they aren’t a one shot and won’t go down without a fight … but you are saying the same thing we are in the end. We are tired of putting in all this effort to only come out behind or just barely beat out those that aren’t even trying as hard.

You can’t even make your argument solid as you ended with:

A good ele should beat a bad warrior any day.

Ok…would you rather I take this approach:

I’ve one shot more warriors than I can count. All you baddies need to l2p your class, because you’re obviously doing it wrong.

Kyskythyn.6471:

Ok…would you rather I take this approach:

I’ve one shot more warriors than I can count. All you baddies need to l2p your class, because you’re obviously doing it wrong.

With that approach I would just call you a liar and move on.

Elementalists can’t do 20k+ damage in one hit, but I have seen Warriors do 16k in a single killshot. Elementalists can reasonably have under 16k hitpoints.

Taldren.7523:

With that approach I would just call you a liar and move on.

Elementalists can’t do 20k+ damage in one hit, but I have seen Warriors do 16k in a single killshot. Elementalists can reasonably have under 16k hitpoints.

You, sir, are incorrect.

Kyskythyn.6471:

Taldren.7523:

With that approach I would just call you a liar and move on.

Elementalists can’t do 20k+ damage in one hit, but I have seen Warriors do 16k in a single killshot. Elementalists can reasonably have under 16k hitpoints.

You, sir, are incorrect.

Wow, I can hit a bunny for 405,000 too … but neither of those are players where you can’t set up some elaborate bs to make a video/screenshot for.

/calledyouout

Taldren.7523:

Wow, I can hit a bunny for 405,000 too … but neither of those are players where you can’t set up some elaborate bs to make a video/screenshot for.

/calledyouout

Oh, you wanted a player?

Kyskythyn.6471:

Taldren.7523:

Wow, I can hit a bunny for 405,000 too … but neither of those are players where you can’t set up some elaborate bs to make a video/screenshot for.

/calledyouout

Oh, you wanted a player?

Upleveled ‘recruit’ player that was already dead and considered to have 0 armor.

Would you like to try again with the smoke and mirrors?

Taldren.7523:

Your ‘experienced’ argument is a strawman. Experience caps out at such a low level in this game that it has almost no place in any WvW argument.

This is what I suspected. You are very begginer who dont even realize how deep and complicated the combat in gw2 actually is. Even 1v1 can be quite complicated and requires some experience. With 2v2 it becomes a lot lot lot more complicated. 5v5 pvp matches are complicated way beyond your imagination. Its hard to simulate/theorycraft even the first 5 seconds of advanced of 3v3 pvp combat.
The only thing with “low” experinece cap is zerging in wvw – which probably you do most of the time and that is why you think the cap is low and whats more funny the cap is a lie there is no human who can grasp/realize the first second of 30v30 zerg combat.
Being on your level of understanding the GW2 combat you will probably laugh of what I just wrote but you can easily verify that by fighting a good tPvp team and loosing 5 times in a row 500 to 5.
Personaly for me its is almost not possible to fully grasp 3v3 combat. One of the conditions to fully understand what is (and will be) happening is for example to know all the important current cooldowns on all players participating in the fight which is very hard to do for 6 players. Most of the GW2 players have problem to master their own cooldowns.

Taldren.7523:

Upleveled ‘recruit’ player that was already dead and considered to have 0 armor.

Would you like to try again with the smoke and mirrors?

Evidently nothing anyone says will change your mind. Enjoy playing a class you feel is broken and underpowered.

Kyskythyn.6471:

Taldren.7523:

Upleveled ‘recruit’ player that was already dead and considered to have 0 armor.

Would you like to try again with the smoke and mirrors?

Evidently nothing anyone says will change your mind. Enjoy playing a class you feel is broken and underpowered.

I wouldn’t consider us underpowered at all. It is the fact that if we build glassy we die way too easily as opposed to other classes. This is partly do to our lack of weapon swap. Thieves would be cake if I could switch to d/d.

Lavadiel.6231:

Grevender.9235:

Lavadiel.6231:

there are team games, for example soccer where each player has his role like goalkeeper, defender, attacker etc.

I have yet to see a soccer team deploying three/four-armed goalkeepers, bazooka-equipped attackers or defenders geared in fullplate steel armor.
Balance is not in the role.

armour hast nothing to do here… I just said thet there are two basic kinds of games, 1v1 and team games. GW2 is obviously a team game and has no 1v1 balance, same as soccer where there is also no balance in 1 striker vs 1 goalkeeper yet the game as a whole is perfectly (symmetrically) balanced.

although I really appreciate your last posts, this one in reply to mine has a flawed logic. According to your own example and remaining on soccer scenario, it is perfectly balanced for 1vs1: penalty kick.
I perfectly know that GW2, being MMO, is a group-oriented activity, but what I am pointing out is that is very naive to believe that the game can be overall balanced if the most important aspect of balance (1vs1) is completely ignored.
When designing an house, what part do you project first? the roof?
The foundation.

FrownyClown.8402:

I wouldn’t consider us underpowered at all. It is the fact that if we build glassy we die way too easily as opposed to other classes. This is partly do to our lack of weapon swap. Thieves would be cake if I could switch to d/d.

Compared to other classes we’re definitely underpowered. Just compare our weapon-sets, our traits or our utilities to other classes … it’s ridiculous.

Tempest_Defense - Unsuspecting_Foe or Merciless_Hammer

Mist_Form - Endure_Pain

Signet_of_Restoration - Healing_Signet

Pyromancer’s_Alacrity and Burning_Rage and Ember’s_Might - Burning_Arrows

Cleansing_Water - Cleansing_Ire

Piercing_Shards and Aquamancer’s_Alacrity - Sundering_Mace

Geomancer’s_Freedom - Dogged_March

Arcane_Mastery - Physical_Training

Evasive_Arcana - Reckless_Dodge

Signet_of_earth - Throw_Bolas

Armor_of_Earth - Balanced_Stance

Cleansing_Fire - Signet_of_stamina

CD-Reduction from 23P in Arcana equals Fast_Hands in addition there’s also F-spell CD-reduction on warriors

Warriors have more HP and more toughness, eles have no F-spells at all which are extremely OP on warriors. Warriors have better mobility through weapon-spells, more reliable burst, better CC and better healing.

Same comparison can be done to other classes. You won’t find (m)any traits or utilities that are much better on ele than their counterparts on other classes.

I agree that some classes should be better in some points (and also worse in some points) than other classes. But warrior has everything an ele has, just better … a lot better.

Gorni.1764:

FrownyClown.8402:

I wouldn’t consider us underpowered at all. It is the fact that if we build glassy we die way too easily as opposed to other classes. This is partly do to our lack of weapon swap. Thieves would be cake if I could switch to d/d.

Compared to other classes we’re definitely underpowered. Just compare our weapon-sets, our traits or our utilities to other classes … it’s ridiculous.

Tempest_Defense - Unsuspecting_Foe or Merciless_Hammer

Mist_Form - Endure_Pain

Signet_of_Restoration - Healing_Signet

Pyromancer’s_Alacrity and Burning_Rage and Ember’s_Might - Burning_Arrows

Cleansing_Water - Cleansing_Ire

Piercing_Shards and Aquamancer’s_Alacrity - Sundering_Mace

Geomancer’s_Freedom - Dogged_March

Arcane_Mastery - Physical_Training

Evasive_Arcana - Reckless_Dodge

Signet_of_earth - Throw_Bolas

Armor_of_Earth - Balanced_Stance

Cleansing_Fire - Signet_of_stamina

CD-Reduction from 23P in Arcana equals Fast_Hands in addition there’s also F-spell CD-reduction on warriors

Warriors have more HP and more toughness, eles have no F-spells at all which are extremely OP on warriors. Warriors have better mobility through weapon-spells, more reliable burst, better CC and better healing.

Same comparison can be done to other classes. You won’t find (m)any traits or utilities that are much better on ele than their counterparts on other classes.

I agree that some classes should be better in some points (and also worse in some points) than other classes. But warrior has everything an ele has, just better … a lot better.

We aren’t suppost to have something that is better than another class. We are the class that can utilize bits and pieces from each class. Of course our skills aren’t going to be as great as others. I would like to see a guardian with as much cc as us, a ranger with as much burst capability as us a necro with as much mobility as us, an engineer with as much group support as us, a thief with as much aoe damage potential as us.
We outshine classes in certain areas but we never outshine the strengths of certain classes. The issue an elementalist has is with the mechanics of the class. No weapon swap gives us huge disadvantages while our lack of good traits doesn’t allow us to have much build diversity. We also have to invest heavily into vitality, toughness and healing power to survive while other classes do not.

Grevender.9235:

Lavadiel.6231:

Grevender.9235:

Lavadiel.6231:

there are team games, for example soccer where each player has his role like goalkeeper, defender, attacker etc.

I have yet to see a soccer team deploying three/four-armed goalkeepers, bazooka-equipped attackers or defenders geared in fullplate steel armor.
Balance is not in the role.

armour hast nothing to do here… I just said thet there are two basic kinds of games, 1v1 and team games. GW2 is obviously a team game and has no 1v1 balance, same as soccer where there is also no balance in 1 striker vs 1 goalkeeper yet the game as a whole is perfectly (symmetrically) balanced.

although I really appreciate your last posts, this one in reply to mine has a flawed logic. According to your own example and remaining on soccer scenario, it is perfectly balanced for 1vs1: penalty kick.
I perfectly know that GW2, being MMO, is a group-oriented activity, but what I am pointing out is that is very naive to believe that the game can be overall balanced if the most important aspect of balance (1vs1) is completely ignored.
When designing an house, what part do you project first? the roof?
The foundation.

just fyi – penality kick 1v1 wise is not balanced, the goalkeeper chances are like max 25% on average. The penality kick as a rule is imho a poor try to balance for the foul in the penalty area because sometimes (quite often?) 95% score situation can be interrupted on purpose to get only 75% goal chance and a yelow card. The better way would be change the penality kick distance depending on how close the goal actually was

And as for Gw2 the 1v1 balance is not completely ignored, it exist to some degree. Considering the variety/complexity is not that bad and I doubt it will ever be clearly better than it is now.

Kyskythyn.6471:

Taldren.7523:

Upleveled ‘recruit’ player that was already dead and considered to have 0 armor.

Would you like to try again with the smoke and mirrors?

Evidently nothing anyone says will change your mind. Enjoy playing a class you feel is broken and underpowered.

Probably because I have written website apps for calculating damage values and I know your numbers are completely FOS.

Muppet.6485:

Of course ele is on par

That’s why absolutely no eles were used by any teams in the last major Tournament which I can’t remember the name of.

Because we’re so

On par..

And can accomplish one aspect of combat better than any other classes..

Dying..

It just takes more work, but just because it takes more work doesn’t mean it’s not capable of doing things. People play wars or necros ( and a few others ) in tournies because theyre much more easy to play than an ele. Don’t confuse more work with inability.

Lavadiel.6231:

Taldren.7523:

Your ‘experienced’ argument is a strawman. Experience caps out at such a low level in this game that it has almost no place in any WvW argument.

This is what I suspected. You are very begginer who dont even realize how deep and complicated the combat in gw2 actually is. Even 1v1 can be quite complicated and requires some experience. With 2v2 it becomes a lot lot lot more complicated. 5v5 pvp matches are complicated way beyond your imagination. Its hard to simulate/theorycraft even the first 5 seconds of advanced of 3v3 pvp combat.
The only thing with “low” experinece cap is zerging in wvw – which probably you do most of the time and that is why you think the cap is low and whats more funny the cap is a lie there is no human who can grasp/realize the first second of 30v30 zerg combat.
Being on your level of understanding the GW2 combat you will probably laugh of what I just wrote but you can easily verify that by fighting a good tPvp team and loosing 5 times in a row 500 to 5.
Personaly for me its is almost not possible to fully grasp 3v3 combat. One of the conditions to fully understand what is (and will be) happening is for example to know all the important current cooldowns on all players participating in the fight which is very hard to do for 6 players. Most of the GW2 players have problem to master their own cooldowns.

Child, please. I come from DAoC. This game is not complicated at all … not in comparison with what has come before and certainly not at the levels of what you believe given that wall of self-inflated importance you just posted.

FrownyClown.8402:

renss.5764:

today i dueled with a warrior for quite some time and he told me that all classes are almost on par right now but it just feels so much harder on elementalist than on some other classes. so is elementalist underpowered or do i just suck?

The fact you heard this from a warrior gives him no credibility. They can be immune to conditions, condition classes can’t touch them, they have an overpowered trait that gives them 50% crit chance while opponent is stunned, they can run away quickly and do more damage than an elementalist can while having twice as much vitality and more toughness.

The two classes that need buffs are ranger and elementalist. I would also like to see siphon builds for necromancers to become viable in wvw/pvp. Buff those first two, bring down the warrior and you have a much more balanced game.

yes, because having immunity for 8 second makes you immune to condition the whole fight. i guess having mist form will make you invulnerable, so no build can touch you. bleh. none of the meta build right now can run away quickly, oh you use a “run away” quickly build?…you are dead. still better then free kill tier warrior back then, feel lucky.
no one can have a bigger spike damage then ele. because twice as much vitality and toughness mean anything, my zerker thief doesn’t die any faster then my zerker war, and ele used to be unkilleable for having way less vitality and toughness then warrior and warrior used to be free kill.

tl;dr your logic is flawed.

cheshirefox.7026:

regardless of what you play or program for a living
a 10 year old can tell this game is as unbalanced as a drunken clown on a ball

fixed it for you. i don’t think you have been playing any game. atleast not class based games.

I recon every build has their easy targets and their nemesis,
i see a lot of people complaining about warriors?! I very rarely loose from a warrior, they are often easy to counter, the hammer slash you can see coming from miles away, hundred blades? haha they don’t even move, one step backwards is enough, killshot can get you when not paying attention, but in 1vs1 killshot is like churning earth…
But trying to D/D a condition necro? or a confusion build mesmer? that can be so incredibly hard!

So no there is no balance, but maybe that’s the way it’s supposed to be, because i guess you can create a build specifically to counter any other build…

Findo Gask.4103:

I recon every build has their easy targets and their nemesis,
i see a lot of people complaining about warriors?! I very rarely loose from a warrior, they are often easy to counter, the hammer slash you can see coming from miles away, hundred blades? haha they don’t even move, one step backwards is enough, killshot can get you when not paying attention, but in 1vs1 killshot is like churning earth…
But trying to D/D a condition necro? or a confusion build mesmer? that can be so incredibly hard!

So no there is no balance, but maybe that’s the way it’s supposed to be, because i guess you can create a build specifically to counter any other build…

I’m the opposite… I feel like necros and mes are easy, just annoying. I run s/d and only have problems with good stun hammer wars, but only in the sense that it takes forever to kill then with their insane passive healing and toughness. It’s all about wearing then down though and getting them to that threshold of 33% hp. To be able to get in our biggest burst dmg.

It is true though that every class has and should have 1-2 hard counters.

Lighter.5631:

FrownyClown.8402:

renss.5764:

today i dueled with a warrior for quite some time and he told me that all classes are almost on par right now but it just feels so much harder on elementalist than on some other classes. so is elementalist underpowered or do i just suck?

The fact you heard this from a warrior gives him no credibility. They can be immune to conditions, condition classes can’t touch them, they have an overpowered trait that gives them 50% crit chance while opponent is stunned, they can run away quickly and do more damage than an elementalist can while having twice as much vitality and more toughness.

The two classes that need buffs are ranger and elementalist. I would also like to see siphon builds for necromancers to become viable in wvw/pvp. Buff those first two, bring down the warrior and you have a much more balanced game.

yes, because having immunity for 8 second makes you immune to condition the whole fight. i guess having mist form will make you invulnerable, so no build can touch you. bleh. none of the meta build right now can run away quickly, oh you use a “run away” quickly build?…you are dead. still better then free kill tier warrior back then, feel lucky.
no one can have a bigger spike damage then ele. because twice as much vitality and toughness mean anything, my zerker thief doesn’t die any faster then my zerker war, and ele used to be unkilleable for having way less vitality and toughness then warrior and warrior used to be free kill.

tl;dr your logic is flawed.

cheshirefox.7026:

regardless of what you play or program for a living
a 10 year old can tell this game is as unbalanced as a drunken clown on a ball

fixed it for you. i don’t think you have been playing any game. atleast not class based games.

They have a 400/s heal. Condition builds have a much tougher time do to that. Please get out of the ele forums which I have contributed far more than you have.