Guild Wars 2

I think the problem with ppl fighting an ele, which has been brought up before, is ppl do not know the class. So if all the cards fall In line and we as an ele have all the traits for them…bth, SS, 10% in attunement, VS, SoF, burning target, etc etc… Then they see that big hit and don’t know that it took the planets aligning once every 10 years on the 7th blue moon every quarter year for us to hit that ONE huge spike burst.

Or the idiots are full glass cannons and think they can just stand in the middle of a DT/RoF combo. Either way, nerfs happen and have happened because “the squeaky wheel gets the grease.”

And f you don’t main an ele and play one every time you log in for your entirety of your play time. Get out of the ele forums and stop spewing bs on a class you clearly know nothing about.

Taldren.7523:

Child, please. I come from DAoC.

this does not change the fact that you are absolute GW2 newb and also its only my guess but I am probably twice as old as you

Lavadiel.6231:

just fyi – penality kick 1v1 wise is not balanced

ok, put aside variables, just take into account – always staying on your scenario for simplicity – and just think about any of the 11 players trying to catch the ball from someone else. That’s 1vs1, and it is balanced because all the players are humans, have two legs, two arms ecc.
If your opponent ‘tho has higher armor, more hp, perpetual stuns, higher damage output, better healing, better mobility ecc….. no, that’s not balance.

And as for Gw2 the 1v1 balance is not completely ignored, it exist to some degree.

it exists as mere consequence of the existence of more than one class, and this is very very VERY bad.

Taldren.7523:

Otherwise the fact that you find it complicated means you are behind the curve of others that feel it is simplistic and shallow.

dude you probably dont even s/tPvp in GW2… so you simply just cannot have any idea how complicated pvp in this game is. Currently pve/wvw are indeed broken and pve/wvw only players dont need to undestand the combat system at all but it does not mean pvp combat is shallow.

It is shallow. It lacks the basic things that PvPers usually have to take care of. There are no resources lika mana or energy (with thieves as exception but that’s because their class-design with no CDs at all requires a restriction). Every class has a heal so basically mitigating damage isn’t that important either since you can just run away and heal yourself or get automatically (!) healed as soon as you’re out of combat. There are no cast-bars, many instant-spells and often no obvious animations (asura) so dodges are mostly random. CCs have low CD, so do defensive mechanics like stealth and also most stunbreaks -> CC doesn’t require any timing at all. There is no DR either so just spam everything and you’ll be king. If you want to prove otherwise then tell me, how can you show your skill in this game?

> There are no resources lika mana or energy

because those are not needed when there are cooldowns

>Every class has a heal so basically mitigating damage isn’t that important

yep, healing for100% tank builds is too big, healing for dps is OK

> just run away and heal yourself or get automatically

I dont see any problem with this

>many instant-spells and often no obvious animations

yes, thats a problem – no possibility to react/counter

>dodges are mostly random

random dodge players dont live long, even in totally broken pve

>CCs have low CD so do defensive mechanics

and here
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/Elementalist-A-PvP-Perspective/first#post3091988
you wrote:
“too low CD on strong spells, no reasonable CDs on defensive spells”

LOL

>So CC doesn’t require any timing at all.

good cc timing is important

>Just spam everything and you’ll be king.

and you will loose any tPvp match against advanced players

Game is shallow.

• no resource management except cooldowns
• almost no existent punishment for being interrupted
• positioning not required thanks to plentiful of gap closers and teleports
• (in pve) control against bosses is almost completely worthless

Findo Gask.4103:

I recon every build has their easy targets and their nemesis,
i see a lot of people complaining about warriors?! I very rarely loose from a warrior, they are often easy to counter, the hammer slash you can see coming from miles away, hundred blades? haha they don’t even move, one step backwards is enough, killshot can get you when not paying attention, but in 1vs1 killshot is like churning earth…
But trying to D/D a condition necro? or a confusion build mesmer? that can be so incredibly hard!

So no there is no balance, but maybe that’s the way it’s supposed to be, because i guess you can create a build specifically to counter any other build…

This ^^^. Every build and play style from every single profession have their strengths and weaknesses. My burst ele can dominate any profession with most playstyles/builds but a great bursty or condition based mesmer player will defeat me easily.

Gorni.1764:

It is shallow. It lacks the basic things that PvPers usually have to take care of. There are no resources lika mana or energy (with thieves as exception but that’s because their class-design with no CDs at all requires a restriction). Every class has a heal so basically mitigating damage isn’t that important either since you can just run away and heal yourself or get automatically (!) healed as soon as you’re out of combat. There are no cast-bars, many instant-spells and often no obvious animations (asura) so dodges are mostly random. CCs have low CD, so do defensive mechanics like stealth and also most stunbreaks -> CC doesn’t require any timing at all. There is no DR either so just spam everything and you’ll be king. If you want to prove otherwise then tell me, how can you show your skill in this game?

Don’t try and explain it to him … it’s a waste of time. Anyone that played games that had 5 times the classes and 100 times the abilities to keep track of knows how shallow and simple to understand this game is.

Lavadiel.6231:

Taldren.7523:

Otherwise the fact that you find it complicated means you are behind the curve of others that feel it is simplistic and shallow.

dude you probably dont even s/tPvp in GW2… so you simply just cannot have any idea how complicated pvp in this game is. Currently pve/wvw are indeed broken and pve/wvw only players dont need to undestand the combat system at all but it does not mean pvp combat is shallow.

saying people who don’t spvp don’t know the combat system is a weak argument at best. Some of them know it very well for the part of the game they play in. Also wvw/pve have major class balance issues because of spvp.

also the combat mechanics of this game are shallow in comparison to other games (not a bad thing). What I beleave you are trying to say is the team dynamics and metagame for spvp is complex (this true) but these are two diffrent things.

Lavadiel.6231:

> There are no resources lika mana or energy

because those are not needed when there are cooldowns

every good mmorpg has resources AND CDs. Resources are a way to avoid mindless waste of skills and therefore mindless waste of resources which are limited. Players would have to deal with the problem of resource-restriction and builds could be far more complex and difficult to balance for the player itself. Resource-restriction would avoid players rummaging 24/7 without the need to stop for refreshing resources (like a thief has to do from time to time) or the need to think if it’s a good idea to invest resources.

Lavadiel.6231:

>Every class has a heal so basically mitigating damage isn’t that important

yep, healing for100% tank builds is too big, healing for dps is OK

healing for DPS is not OK. DPS should be DPS, it should be squishy and players should avoid damage via utilities, class-mechanics (like good mobility or stealth) and good gameplay, timing of spells and knowing when to engage a fight and when not. What they lack in heal and defense should be made up with more damage. On the contrary if a class has good CC, high Vit/toughness, heal or utility it shouldn’t make too much damage. That’s basic logic. This is also the reason why support builds ore healers are unnecessary and therefore pure supporters are useless – they simply lack damage while there is no need for their support since any class can survive and buff on its own for an unlimited amount of time (autoheal, see above).

Lavadiel.6231:

> just run away and heal yourself or get automatically healed

the problem of beeing healed automatically is that you don’t get punished when you leave a fight and lost most of your HP. You can just start a new fight nearly immediately without any restrictions. The efforts of another player against whom you maybe just won a 1v1 were in vain because you just get healed up automatically without any restriction or use of resources (like healing pots, eating food or something like that). Again: no restrictions, spam/fight 24/7 without need of tactical play.

Lavadiel.6231:

>dodges are mostly random

random dodge players dont live long, even in totally broken pve

I just said that many or most spells (especially on asura which seem to make up 90% of all tPvPers) can’t be seen (also due to the huge amount of spell-effects in larger fights) and therefore can’t be dodged. You even agreed with that. So basically you have to guess when a spell will arrive but you can never be sure if one is beeing cast or which one it is. So you can’t dodge specific attacks – therefore dodges are random. There’s also the problem with dodge-spam via vigor, spells (thief) or sigill of energy. I don’t see a problem in PvE though, most bosses have 1-2s or longer animations, huge red circles or you just know the encounter and therefore can predict spells.

Lavadiel.6231:

>CCs have low CD so do defensive mechanics

and here
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/Elementalist-A-PvP-Perspective/first#post3091988
you wrote:
“too low CD on strong spells, no reasonable CDs on defensive spells”

LOL

LOL

>So CC doesn’t require any timing at all.

good cc timing is important

I don’t see a problem here. What do you mean? Both times I wrote that CCs and strong spells have too low CDs and defensive CDs often don’t really suit the CDs of CCs (take a look at elementalist: warriors can basically perma-CC you and the average CD of an ele-stunbreak is 63s; eles in comparison have CCs with an average CD of about 35s and warriors stunbreaks have an average 46s CD) CC should have high CD, so should have stunbreakers. So CC has to be timed and chained well from different players and stunbreakers shouldn’t be used mindlessly on weak CCs or in situations where you’d die anyways so you will have them ready in the next fight. Most classes aren’t punished at all if a CC misses. Because they can try again a few seconds later. Nobody has to care if a player has enough stamina to dodge or has stability up, etc. Just press all the buttons and if it fails press it again 10s later. Knowing CDs of other classes is basically not important since low CDs will let you face the same spells in an intervall of 10-20s anyways.
Another problem here is perma-evasion or perma-stealth – it’s borderline-broken. Stealth itself is ok, so is evasion, but players shouldn’t be able to spam it without restriction. No thief has to care about when exactly he’s going to stealth since he can just restealth anytime he wants.

Lavadiel.6231:

>Just spam everything and you’ll be king.

and you will loose any tPvp match against advanced players

Have you ever watched tournament streams? Nobody that watches a team fight can tell what players are doing since there is so much stuff flying around. Commentators can’t tell, viewers can’t tell and the players themselves can’t tell. What are you basically doing when engaging a teamfight or trying to down a player with damage? Spam as much bullkitten as possible in the middle of the enemies. Rangers send in pets and hit autohit, warriors spam LB-spells until all are on CD, eles will place all their AoEs available, necros spam marks and wells, etc. etc. There isn’t a need to safe CDs or time them – on the contrary: it’s even worse if you save your spells and don’t set everything that deals damage on CD immediately. You don’t have a drawback when casting a spell, no resource that is wasted and like always you can just cast it again in a few seconds. Of course there are some spells that should be safed for specific situations but these are exceptions (mostly on ele since they all have high CDs – that’s how it should be). An ele actually has to think if he uses RTL to engage a fight or safe it for later to disengage, he even has to consider if he joins a fight at all, he has to check the enemy’s boons for stability before using a CC, he has to apply burning before casting Firegrab, he has to get into safety before channeling his 4s heal, he has to think in which combo-field he uses his blast-finisher, he has to immobilize or CC before he uses phoenix or dragon’s tooth… A warrior runs in and presses 1-5, and sadly is more efficient than most classes regardless of the enemy’s skill.

@Gorni

I dont say GW2 pvp combat has no design bugs, or that there is perfect balance. Obviously not, there are some serious erors. Most of the problems you listed are indeed true and obvious to see to almost anyone and I already wrote about them on the forum many times.

>Have you ever watched tournament streams?
> Nobody that watches a team fight can tell what players
> are doing since there is so much stuff flying around.

yep watching (with full understanding) a 5v5 fight without pausing/slomo it is not posible for any human.

>Commentators can’t tell, viewers can’t tell and the players themselves can’t tell.

Commentators cant tell, average viewers obviously cant tell too (and never will be), but of course the players can tell what is happening at least the good ones, who win the torunramets. This is what makes them strong and as i said to by fully aware of what is happening in 3v3 combat you have to have godlike perception and full understanding of the builds/CDs that participate in the fight.
Combat in this game is so hard to realtime trace that it will takes some years before any team will get close to play in the best possible way. Right now indeed the fights are often just a skill spam, even at the semi advanced play level. Lets wait until anet do some needed fixes and after this game will be reased in China, I think thier pvp level will become higher than US/EU just after 3-6 months after the game will be out.

Kyskythyn.6471:

Taldren.7523:

Upleveled ‘recruit’ player that was already dead and considered to have 0 armor.

Would you like to try again with the smoke and mirrors?

Evidently nothing anyone says will change your mind. Enjoy playing a class you feel is broken and underpowered.

You play full glass s/d ele? Respect, I would like to see you play do you have any vids?

S/D GC is viable in hotjoin and maybe even solo-Q (though it’s still frustrating against some matchups) but anyways I think that you won’t have much fun with it in tPvP …

If they’re on par but ele is so much harder, then they’re not really on par.

aspirine.6852:

You play full glass s/d ele? Respect, I would like to see you play do you have any vids?

I unfortunately don’t have any vids cause my computer is a brick, but maybe soon. ^^

Like most MMOs, this game isn’t balanced for 1v1. Learn what is strong with the ele and use it (large group wvw, PvE dungeons). If you want to sPvP… pick a different class.

Bhima.9518:

Like most MMOs, this game isn’t balanced for 1v1. Learn what is strong with the ele and use it (large group wvw, PvE dungeons). If you want to sPvP… pick a different class.

You know, in other MMOs where classes have defined roles this was acceptable. In this game it isn’t. You are only responsible for yourself in GW2 and the Ele doesn’t have the tools to do the job. The entire defense of the Ele is CC … it used to be Mobility and CC, but the mobility was nerfed to hell over a sPvP map. Unfortunately, stability defeats CC and Warriors/Guardians have a ton of it. Stealth pretty much bypasses it and being out of our range (rangers) doesn’t hurt either.

It isn’t like I can say “Hey, mr warrior that just walked through our front line directly at me … this isn’t a 1v1 game so you need to go back over there and be as dependant on someone else as I am just because you showed up … not that anyone is going to actually be able to help me before you two shot my kitten ”.

FrownyClown.8402:

they have an overpowered trait that gives them 50% crit chance while opponent is stunned

With Earth’s Embrace and Rock Solid traits these guys aren’t really a problem because they don’t stat for high crit usually (they rely on the trait).

Not that everyone runs those traits, but. I find them very useful.