Guild Wars 2

A big part of the problem is that we can’t sit in one or two attunements. If each attunement was well balanced for a particular mode of play and the cooldowns were shorter, the profession might be what ANet seems to imagine it is. However, the current situation is that we are forced to put together skill rotations that utilize all attunements, regardless of situation or circumstance, in order to be at all viable.

Attunements are hoops to jump through, rather than situational tools for adapting to the tactical environment. If Elemental attunements actually provided a “swiss army knife” of skills, then maybe it would make sense to ensure we aren’t too good at any one thing. That’s not the reality though.

The problem with ele Dps isn’t the damage it’s the speed but that doesn’t mean there is a problem.

Mesmers auto attack with GS. Staff, sword, scepters auto attacks do terrible Dps and mesmers don’t really auto attack often as there is no need most damage comes from spells if define Mesmer as a caster like ele.

A ele doesn’t have to rely on auto attack because you have enough spells doing damage. Staff fire 1 hits for a lot it’s just slow but it also has a long range. For d/d the damage auto is lightning whip which is just under the damage of thief dagger auto attack (not counting wild and lotus strike). The thing with d/d is that it isn’t really melee in the sense that a warrior is melee or thief. Lightning whips 300 range even though it doesn’t look like it.

What the ele is capable of doing is adjusting on the fly adaptation to any situation. By having access to all the tools you are prepared.

Just from WvW perspective if your guardian goes down and you have any other profession left to provide group support/heals the ele will do that better than the other classes. Having the ele there means that if the main X that does this the best goes down it doesn’t fall apart because the ele can fill that role.

Someone mentioned headway guardian I don’t know much about guards but I know that build is popular. The reason the build can kill anything is retaliation+healing. The damage isn’t all that great and most healway builds I looked at have 1k healing power. Even in the original healway thread I saw people saying that they have trouble killing anything. They can 1vX all day long but so can a cleric/pvt d/d bunker and a regen ranger. You win by attrition healway guardian is essentially a full cleric d/d ele with retal.

oZii.2864:

The problem with ele Dps isn’t the damage it’s the speed but that doesn’t mean there is a problem.

Mesmers auto attack with GS. Staff, sword, scepters auto attacks do terrible Dps and mesmers don’t really auto attack often as there is no need most damage comes from spells if define Mesmer as a caster like ele.

A ele doesn’t have to rely on auto attack because you have enough spells doing damage. Staff fire 1 hits for a lot it’s just slow but it also has a long range. For d/d the damage auto is lightning whip which is just under the damage of thief dagger auto attack (not counting wild and lotus strike). The thing with d/d is that it isn’t really melee in the sense that a warrior is melee or thief. Lightning whips 300 range even though it doesn’t look like it.

What the ele is capable of doing is adjusting on the fly adaptation to any situation. By having access to all the tools you are prepared.

Just from WvW perspective if your guardian goes down and you have any other profession left to provide group support/heals the ele will do that better than the other classes. Having the ele there means that if the main X that does this the best goes down it doesn’t fall apart because the ele can fill that role.

Someone mentioned headway guardian I don’t know much about guards but I know that build is popular. The reason the build can kill anything is retaliation+healing. The damage isn’t all that great and most healway builds I looked at have 1k healing power. Even in the original healway thread I saw people saying that they have trouble killing anything. They can 1vX all day long but so can a cleric/pvt d/d bunker and a regen ranger. You win by attrition healway guardian is essentially a full cleric d/d ele with retal.

I’m sorry, but you are wrong. Staff 1 Fire has among the lowest damage numbers, normalized to Damage Per Second, of any #1 skill in the game. Water, Air and Earth are pretty much the only ones that are worse. I also disagree that our other skills do a lot of damage. We have probably the lowest DPS across skills 1-5, in damage per second, vs. any other profession/weapon set in the game.

Also, yes, my Healway Guardian does more damage. The build seems to kill slow vs. other Guardian Builds, but I still kill things quicker with my Healway Guardian than I do with my 0-20-0-30-20 Staff Ele with balanced gear. The guardian also has at least as much mobility, similar utility and much, much greater survivability.

After a few days of WvW post patch, I can say that the nerfs have actually had a pretty big impact on my already tenuous survivability. If I go even heavier into Vit/Tou I won’t be able to kill anything. I really can’t believe that they nerfed skill based survivability for the profession. It’s sad.

Another week of build testing and if I don’t find something a lot better, I think I’m done until they fix the profession.

I almost feel like Rangers don’t exist. Did I end up in some alternate dimension?

Thrashbarg.9820:

Every class can play every role in this game. Developers saying the elementalist should be a Jack of all trades show either a lack of understanding of their own game or a lack of a clear vision for the profession.

Every profession can fill every role, but the other professions have to specialize when they build. Eles are different. Every single Ele build has support, control, and deeps, and we’re pretty good at all of them at any given time.

Blaine Tog.8304:

Thrashbarg.9820:

Every class can play every role in this game. Developers saying the elementalist should be a Jack of all trades show either a lack of understanding of their own game or a lack of a clear vision for the profession.

Every profession can fill every role, but the other professions have to specialize when they build. Eles are different. Every single Ele build has support, control, and deeps, and we’re pretty good at all of them at any given time.

That’s just not true. I’ve been able to run builds for most professions that allow a focused role with out sacrificing viable survivability and damage output.

Attunements should provide viable role switching mid combat, the game balances the profession as if it does. Unfortunately that not how Ele actually works. Attunements are just hoops to jump through while putting together convoluted skill rotations that may allow you to barely keep your head above water.

The nerfs not only weakened an already weak profession, but some of them actually amplify some of the flaws of the profession that the nerfed skills provided some compensation for.

On paper, I thought the changes looked ok. In practice, they are sucking the life out of a poorly implemented profession.

Fiontar.4695:

I’m sorry, but you are wrong. Staff 1 Fire has among the lowest damage numbers, normalized to Damage Per Second, of any #1 skill in the game. Water, Air and Earth are pretty much the only ones that are worse. I also disagree that our other skills do a lot of damage. We have probably the lowest DPS across skills 1-5, in damage per second, vs. any other profession/weapon set in the game.

Also, yes, my Healway Guardian does more damage. The build seems to kill slow vs. other Guardian Builds, but I still kill things quicker with my Healway Guardian than I do with my 0-20-0-30-20 Staff Ele with balanced gear. The guardian also has at least as much mobility, similar utility and much, much greater survivability.

Are you comparing fire ball to every 1 skill in the game? If so then that would be the wrong way to go about it. For staff you would have to compare it every 1200+ Range weapon in the game.

oZii.2864:

Are you comparing fire ball to every 1 skill in the game? If so then that would be the wrong way to go about it. For staff you would have to compare it every 1200+ Range weapon in the game.

taken from GW2 Wiki, 1200 range weapon auto-attacks, ordered by base damage only, additional info in brackets, not normalised to damage per second

spatial surge (assuming target is 900 range or more) – 348 (2 additional targets in beam)
long ranged shot (assuming target is at 1000 range or more) – 317 (projectile combo 20%)
fireball – 314
spatial surge (assuming target is 600-900 range) – 300 (2 additional targets in beam)
hip shot (with rifled barrels for 1200 range) – 251 (pierces targets, projectile combo 20%)
spatial surge (assuming target is 300-600 range) – 249 (2 additional targets in beam)
necrotic grasp – 246 (piercing , projectile combo 20%)
long ranged shot (assuming target is at 500-1000 range) – 229 (projectile combo 20%)
orb of wrath – 224
dual shot (with stronger bowstrings for 1200 range) – 212 (projectile combo 100%)
chain lightning – 203 (3 bounce)
spatial surge (assuming target is 300 range or less) – 201 (2 additional targets in beam)
stoning – 185 (weakness, projectile combo 100%)
long ranged shot (assuming target is 0-500 range) – 176 (projectile combo 20%)
bleeding shot – 155 (255 bleed, projectile combo 20%)
tranquilliser dart (with rifled barrels for 1200 range) – 130 (170 bleed, weakness, projectile combo 20%)
winds of chaos – 111 (chance of 298 bleed / 328 burn / vuln, 1 bounce, chance of might / fury to ally)
water blast – 111 (370 healing)

spatial surge (assuming target is at 1200 range) – 348 (2 additional targets in beam)
long ranged shot (assuming target is at 1200 range) – 317 (projectile combo 20%)
fireball – 314
hip shot (with rifled barrels for 1200 range) – 251 (pierces targets, projectile combo 20%)
necrotic grasp – 246 (piercing , projectile combo 20%)
orb of wrath – 224
dual shot (with stronger bowstrings for 1200 range) – 212 (projectile combo 100%)
chain lightning – 203 (3 bounce)
stoning – 185 (weakness, projectile combo 100%)
bleeding shot – 155 (255 bleed, projectile combo 20%)
tranquilliser dart (with rifled barrels for 1200 range) – 130 (170 bleed, weakness, projectile combo 20%)
winds of chaos – 111 (chance of 298 bleed / 328 burn / vuln, 1 bounce, chance of might / fury to ally)
water blast – 111 (370 healing)

Spatial surge hits 3 times with 1,5 second cast time 348 dmg:
(348/1,5)x3=696 dps
Long Ranged Shot (1500 range when traited) 3/4th second cast time.
317/0,75= 423 dps
fireball (Attack speed is 1 attack per 1.4 seconds.)
314/1,4= 224 dps
hip shot 3/4th second cast time:
251/0,75= 335 dps
necrotic grasp 3/4th second cast time:
246/0,75= 328 dps
orb of wrath Actual attack speed is once every .8 seconds.
224/0,8=280 dps
dual shot 2x 212 at approximately 1.19 seconds per attack.
414/1.19=348 dps
Chain Lightning 3/4th cast time:
203/0,75=271 dps (more than fireball even if there’s only one target)
stoning Attack speed is 1 attack per 1.35 seconds.
185/1,35= 137 dps
bleeding shot – Attack speed is approximately 0.96 seconds per attack damage is 155+255=410
410/0,96=427 dps
tranquilizer dart 300 damage every 3/4th second:
300/0,75= 400 dps
winds of chaos ( a bit trickier to calculate) 0,75 casting time:
111+((1/3×298)(1/3×328)(vulnerability,might,fury))/0,75=427 dps +boons and vulnerability.
water blast Attack speed is 1 attack per 1.35 seconds.
111/1,35=82 dps….. there’s a heal though….

So now in order:
Spatial surge (696 dps) mesmer
Winds of Chaos (427 dps+perks) mesmer
Bleeding Shot (427 dps) warrior
Long ranged shot (423 dps) ranger
Tranquilizer dart (400dps) engineer
Dual shot (348 dps) warrior
Hip shot (335 dps) engineer
Necrotic grasp (328 dps) necromancer
Orb of Wrath (280 dps) Guardian

Chain lightning (271 dps) elementalist
Fireball (224 dps) elementalist
Stoning (137 dps) elementalist
Water blast (82 dps) elementalist.

Now you know how they compare.
We have the lowest ranged damage, lowest healthpool, lowest base armor no access to fear, aegis, retaliation, torment, any survivability mechanic, bunker spec and mobility nerfed to bits I thought it was just some whining but seeing these numbers I can’t help but just be very very very very very sad.

*
May I also note that this is after the staff got buffed!

Swimsasa Stoon.8936:

spatial surge (assuming target is at 1200 range) – 348 (2 additional targets in beam)
long ranged shot (assuming target is at 1200 range) – 317 (projectile combo 20%)
fireball – 314
hip shot (with rifled barrels for 1200 range) – 251 (pierces targets, projectile combo 20%)
necrotic grasp – 246 (piercing , projectile combo 20%)
orb of wrath – 224
dual shot (with stronger bowstrings for 1200 range) – 212 (projectile combo 100%)
chain lightning – 203 (3 bounce)
stoning – 185 (weakness, projectile combo 100%)
bleeding shot – 155 (255 bleed, projectile combo 20%)
tranquilliser dart (with rifled barrels for 1200 range) – 130 (170 bleed, weakness, projectile combo 20%)
winds of chaos – 111 (chance of 298 bleed / 328 burn / vuln, 1 bounce, chance of might / fury to ally)
water blast – 111 (370 healing)

Spatial surge hits 3 times with 1,5 second cast time 348 dmg:
(348/1,5)x3=696 dps
Long Ranged Shot (1500 range when traited) 3/4th second cast time.
317/0,75= 423 dps
fireball (Attack speed is 1 attack per 1.4 seconds.)
314/1,4= 224 dps
hip shot 3/4th second cast time:
251/0,75= 335 dps
necrotic grasp 3/4th second cast time:
246/0,75= 328 dps
orb of wrath Actual attack speed is once every .8 seconds.
224/0,8=280 dps
dual shot 2x 212 at approximately 1.19 seconds per attack.
414/1.19=348 dps
Chain Lightning 3/4th cast time:
203/0,75=271 dps (more than fireball even if there’s only one target)
stoning Attack speed is 1 attack per 1.35 seconds.
185/1,35= 137 dps
bleeding shot – Attack speed is approximately 0.96 seconds per attack damage is 155+255=410
410/0,96=427 dps
tranquilizer dart 300 damage every 3/4th second:
300/0,75= 400 dps
winds of chaos ( a bit trickier to calculate) 0,75 casting time:
111+((1/3×298)(1/3×328)(vulnerability,might,fury))/0,75=427 dps +boons and vulnerability.
water blast Attack speed is 1 attack per 1.35 seconds.
111/1,35=82 dps….. there’s a heal though….

So now in order:
Spatial surge (696 dps) mesmer
Winds of Chaos (427 dps+perks) mesmer
Bleeding Shot (427 dps) warrior
Long ranged shot (423 dps) ranger
Tranquilizer dart (400dps) engineer
Dual shot (348 dps) warrior
Hip shot (335 dps) engineer
Necrotic grasp (328 dps) necromancer
Orb of Wrath (280 dps) Guardian

Chain lightning (271 dps) elementalist
Fireball (224 dps) elementalist
Stoning (137 dps) elementalist
Water blast (82 dps) elementalist.

Now you know how they compare.
We have the lowest ranged damage, lowest healthpool, lowest base armor no access to fear, aegis, retaliation, torment, any survivability mechanic, bunker spec and mobility nerfed to bits I thought it was just some whining but seeing these numbers I can’t help but just be very very very very very sad.

*
May I also note that this is after the staff got buffed!

Thanks for doing that. I’ll check the math at some point, because the gap seems wider than based on calculations I did in my head, but it does show pretty nicely how Staff Ele stacks up. Sadly, it isn’t really much better on the other skill slots either.

We really got the short end of the stick and have to work really hard to reach mediocrity, while most other professions can be exceptional with relatively little effort.

The base numbers are off, by a lot, vs. other professions and weapon sets. The nature of our traits severely limits the ability to pump up offensively and even if we do, with such low base numbers, a glass cannon ele is probably lucky to match DPS from other professions running balanced or even defensive builds.

Further proof of how messed up our damage numbers are can be found in underwater combat. I’ve actually had encounters underwater against regenerating mobs where I could not out-damge their base regen rate!

I can’t really explain it. Certain devs do have a reputation of just breaking things they don’t want to deal with, rather than actually balancing them. It’s starting to feel like they are doing that with this profession. We didn’t even have access to an underwater PvE Elite skill until very recently and analysis of the pitiful underwater DPS has been completely ignored.

Back to the numbers, remember that only stoning can act as a finisher, while most other #1 skills in the game are finishers. There is hidden DPS there that isn’t accounted for in the base damage numbers.

Fiontar.4695:

Swimsasa Stoon.8936:

spatial surge (assuming target is at 1200 range) – 348 (2 additional targets in beam)
long ranged shot (assuming target is at 1200 range) – 317 (projectile combo 20%)
fireball – 314
hip shot (with rifled barrels for 1200 range) – 251 (pierces targets, projectile combo 20%)
necrotic grasp – 246 (piercing , projectile combo 20%)
orb of wrath – 224
dual shot (with stronger bowstrings for 1200 range) – 212 (projectile combo 100%)
chain lightning – 203 (3 bounce)
stoning – 185 (weakness, projectile combo 100%)
bleeding shot – 155 (255 bleed, projectile combo 20%)
tranquilliser dart (with rifled barrels for 1200 range) – 130 (170 bleed, weakness, projectile combo 20%)
winds of chaos – 111 (chance of 298 bleed / 328 burn / vuln, 1 bounce, chance of might / fury to ally)
water blast – 111 (370 healing)

Spatial surge hits 3 times with 1,5 second cast time 348 dmg:
(348/1,5)x3=696 dps
Long Ranged Shot (1500 range when traited) 3/4th second cast time.
317/0,75= 423 dps
fireball (Attack speed is 1 attack per 1.4 seconds.)
314/1,4= 224 dps
hip shot 3/4th second cast time:
251/0,75= 335 dps
necrotic grasp 3/4th second cast time:
246/0,75= 328 dps
orb of wrath Actual attack speed is once every .8 seconds.
224/0,8=280 dps
dual shot 2x 212 at approximately 1.19 seconds per attack.
414/1.19=348 dps
Chain Lightning 3/4th cast time:
203/0,75=271 dps (more than fireball even if there’s only one target)
stoning Attack speed is 1 attack per 1.35 seconds.
185/1,35= 137 dps
bleeding shot – Attack speed is approximately 0.96 seconds per attack damage is 155+255=410
410/0,96=427 dps
tranquilizer dart 300 damage every 3/4th second:
300/0,75= 400 dps
winds of chaos ( a bit trickier to calculate) 0,75 casting time:
111+((1/3×298)(1/3×328)(vulnerability,might,fury))/0,75=427 dps +boons and vulnerability.
water blast Attack speed is 1 attack per 1.35 seconds.
111/1,35=82 dps….. there’s a heal though….

So now in order:
Spatial surge (696 dps) mesmer
Winds of Chaos (427 dps+perks) mesmer
Bleeding Shot (427 dps) warrior
Long ranged shot (423 dps) ranger
Tranquilizer dart (400dps) engineer
Dual shot (348 dps) warrior
Hip shot (335 dps) engineer
Necrotic grasp (328 dps) necromancer
Orb of Wrath (280 dps) Guardian

Chain lightning (271 dps) elementalist
Fireball (224 dps) elementalist
Stoning (137 dps) elementalist
Water blast (82 dps) elementalist.

Now you know how they compare.
We have the lowest ranged damage, lowest healthpool, lowest base armor no access to fear, aegis, retaliation, torment, any survivability mechanic, bunker spec and mobility nerfed to bits I thought it was just some whining but seeing these numbers I can’t help but just be very very very very very sad.

*
May I also note that this is after the staff got buffed!

Thanks for doing that. I’ll check the math at some point, because the gap seems wider than based on calculations I did in my head, but it does show pretty nicely how Staff Ele stacks up. Sadly, it isn’t really much better on the other skill slots either.

We really got the short end of the stick and have to work really hard to reach mediocrity, while most other professions can be exceptional with relatively little effort.

The base numbers are off, by a lot, vs. other professions and weapon sets. The nature of our traits severely limits the ability to pump up offensively and even if we do, with such low base numbers, a glass cannon ele is probably lucky to match DPS from other professions running balanced or even defensive builds.

Further proof of how messed up our damage numbers are can be found in underwater combat. I’ve actually had encounters underwater against regenerating mobs where I could not out-damge their base regen rate!

I can’t really explain it. Certain devs do have a reputation of just breaking things they don’t want to deal with, rather than actually balancing them. It’s starting to feel like they are doing that with this profession. We didn’t even have access to an underwater PvE Elite skill until very recently and analysis of the pitiful underwater DPS has been completely ignored.

Back to the numbers, remember that only stoning can act as a finisher, while most other #1 skills in the game are finishers. There is hidden DPS there that isn’t accounted for in the base damage numbers.

Seems the math on spatial surge was wrong. Its not 3 hits of 341 but 3 hits that total 341 damage. making its dps a third of what it says in my previous post. So now its not as strong as chain lightning but still stronger as fireball.

Fiontar.4695:

Blaine Tog.8304:

Thrashbarg.9820:

Every class can play every role in this game. Developers saying the elementalist should be a Jack of all trades show either a lack of understanding of their own game or a lack of a clear vision for the profession.

Every profession can fill every role, but the other professions have to specialize when they build. Eles are different. Every single Ele build has support, control, and deeps, and we’re pretty good at all of them at any given time.

That’s just not true. I’ve been able to run builds for most professions that allow a focused role with out sacrificing viable survivability and damage output.

Right, but the Ele doesn’t have to focus. If you run Staff, for example, you have a plethora of massive AoE damage spells, but you also have multiple options for healing and support and a ton of CC, not to mention combo fields out the wazoo. I run 0/20/0/30/20 with Celestial trinkets and “armor” (my armor’s a fix of stats) and find myself perfectly able to survive dungeons and pretty safe in most of WvW (a really glassy thief is still going to evaporate me if I’m not careful, but I’ll also destroy that thief with my AoE if he tries to SR). My Ele’s numbers aren’t usually as big as my Thief’s, but my Thief also can’t drop a Meteor Storm over a zerg, nor can she drop an AoE stun field that can’t be dodged through.

Swimsasa Stoon.8936:

spatial surge (assuming target is at 1200 range) – 348 (2 additional targets in beam)
long ranged shot (assuming target is at 1200 range) – 317 (projectile combo 20%)
fireball – 314
hip shot (with rifled barrels for 1200 range) – 251 (pierces targets, projectile combo 20%)
necrotic grasp – 246 (piercing , projectile combo 20%)
orb of wrath – 224
dual shot (with stronger bowstrings for 1200 range) – 212 (projectile combo 100%)
chain lightning – 203 (3 bounce)
stoning – 185 (weakness, projectile combo 100%)
bleeding shot – 155 (255 bleed, projectile combo 20%)
tranquilliser dart (with rifled barrels for 1200 range) – 130 (170 bleed, weakness, projectile combo 20%)
winds of chaos – 111 (chance of 298 bleed / 328 burn / vuln, 1 bounce, chance of might / fury to ally)
water blast – 111 (370 healing)

Spatial surge hits 3 times with 1,5 second cast time 348 dmg:
(348/1,5)x3=696 dps
Long Ranged Shot (1500 range when traited) 3/4th second cast time.
317/0,75= 423 dps
fireball (Attack speed is 1 attack per 1.4 seconds.)
314/1,4= 224 dps
hip shot 3/4th second cast time:
251/0,75= 335 dps
necrotic grasp 3/4th second cast time:
246/0,75= 328 dps
orb of wrath Actual attack speed is once every .8 seconds.
224/0,8=280 dps
dual shot 2x 212 at approximately 1.19 seconds per attack.
414/1.19=348 dps
Chain Lightning 3/4th cast time:
203/0,75=271 dps (more than fireball even if there’s only one target)
stoning Attack speed is 1 attack per 1.35 seconds.
185/1,35= 137 dps
bleeding shot – Attack speed is approximately 0.96 seconds per attack damage is 155+255=410
410/0,96=427 dps
tranquilizer dart 300 damage every 3/4th second:
300/0,75= 400 dps
winds of chaos ( a bit trickier to calculate) 0,75 casting time:
111+((1/3×298)(1/3×328)(vulnerability,might,fury))/0,75=427 dps +boons and vulnerability.
water blast Attack speed is 1 attack per 1.35 seconds.
111/1,35=82 dps….. there’s a heal though….

So now in order:
Spatial surge (696 dps) mesmer
Winds of Chaos (427 dps+perks) mesmer
Bleeding Shot (427 dps) warrior
Long ranged shot (423 dps) ranger
Tranquilizer dart (400dps) engineer
Dual shot (348 dps) warrior
Hip shot (335 dps) engineer
Necrotic grasp (328 dps) necromancer
Orb of Wrath (280 dps) Guardian

Chain lightning (271 dps) elementalist
Fireball (224 dps) elementalist
Stoning (137 dps) elementalist
Water blast (82 dps) elementalist.

Now you know how they compare.
We have the lowest ranged damage, lowest healthpool, lowest base armor no access to fear, aegis, retaliation, torment, any survivability mechanic, bunker spec and mobility nerfed to bits I thought it was just some whining but seeing these numbers I can’t help but just be very very very very very sad.

*
May I also note that this is after the staff got buffed!

Thanks for taking the time to put that together will look at it more when I get the chance.

Swimsasa Stoon.8936:

spatial surge (assuming target is at 1200 range) – 348 (2 additional targets in beam)
long ranged shot (assuming target is at 1200 range) – 317 (projectile combo 20%)
fireball – 314
hip shot (with rifled barrels for 1200 range) – 251 (pierces targets, projectile combo 20%)
necrotic grasp – 246 (piercing , projectile combo 20%)
orb of wrath – 224
dual shot (with stronger bowstrings for 1200 range) – 212 (projectile combo 100%)
chain lightning – 203 (3 bounce)
stoning – 185 (weakness, projectile combo 100%)
bleeding shot – 155 (255 bleed, projectile combo 20%)
tranquilliser dart (with rifled barrels for 1200 range) – 130 (170 bleed, weakness, projectile combo 20%)
winds of chaos – 111 (chance of 298 bleed / 328 burn / vuln, 1 bounce, chance of might / fury to ally)
water blast – 111 (370 healing)

Spatial surge hits 3 times with 1,5 second cast time 348 dmg:
(348/1,5)x3=696 dps
Long Ranged Shot (1500 range when traited) 3/4th second cast time.
317/0,75= 423 dps
fireball (Attack speed is 1 attack per 1.4 seconds.)
314/1,4= 224 dps
hip shot 3/4th second cast time:
251/0,75= 335 dps
necrotic grasp 3/4th second cast time:
246/0,75= 328 dps
orb of wrath Actual attack speed is once every .8 seconds.
224/0,8=280 dps
dual shot 2x 212 at approximately 1.19 seconds per attack.
414/1.19=348 dps
Chain Lightning 3/4th cast time:
203/0,75=271 dps (more than fireball even if there’s only one target)
stoning Attack speed is 1 attack per 1.35 seconds.
185/1,35= 137 dps
bleeding shot – Attack speed is approximately 0.96 seconds per attack damage is 155+255=410
410/0,96=427 dps
tranquilizer dart 300 damage every 3/4th second:
300/0,75= 400 dps
winds of chaos ( a bit trickier to calculate) 0,75 casting time:
111+((1/3×298)(1/3×328)(vulnerability,might,fury))/0,75=427 dps +boons and vulnerability.
water blast Attack speed is 1 attack per 1.35 seconds.
111/1,35=82 dps….. there’s a heal though….

So now in order:
Spatial surge (696 dps) mesmer
Winds of Chaos (427 dps+perks) mesmer
Bleeding Shot (427 dps) warrior
Long ranged shot (423 dps) ranger
Tranquilizer dart (400dps) engineer
Dual shot (348 dps) warrior
Hip shot (335 dps) engineer
Necrotic grasp (328 dps) necromancer
Orb of Wrath (280 dps) Guardian

Chain lightning (271 dps) elementalist
Fireball (224 dps) elementalist
Stoning (137 dps) elementalist
Water blast (82 dps) elementalist.

Now you know how they compare.
We have the lowest ranged damage, lowest healthpool, lowest base armor no access to fear, aegis, retaliation, torment, any survivability mechanic, bunker spec and mobility nerfed to bits I thought it was just some whining but seeing these numbers I can’t help but just be very very very very very sad.

*
May I also note that this is after the staff got buffed!

Your math is a little off, for starters multi hit attacks ALWAYS show the total damage, not the damage per hit. In addition for calculation damage with skills such as Winds of Chaos you need to understand that burn and bleed only tick every second, and thus won’t tick until 1s after being applied so you may as well throw then out of that initial equation and just add them onto the DPS number afterwards.

But yeah, no ele (or other caster) is known for their auto attack, ESPECIALLY not ele, who has 25 skills they can be using to fill the gap.

Malcastus.6240:

…And no, they wouldn’t kill off a class. No sane game developer would kill off a profession. That is going against everything you work to strive for…

cough Paragon cough GW1 cough

Wizzlock.3492:

Malcastus.6240:

…And no, they wouldn’t kill off a class. No sane game developer would kill off a profession. That is going against everything you work to strive for…

cough Paragon cough GW1 cough

Anet didn’t kill it off, the players did

Wizzlock.3492:

Malcastus.6240:

…And no, they wouldn’t kill off a class. No sane game developer would kill off a profession. That is going against everything you work to strive for…

cough Paragon cough GW1 cough

To be fair, there was one viable build and you could even vary one skill which makes it almost like 2 builds!

Yuki Chuki.2457:

Wizzlock.3492:

Malcastus.6240:

…And no, they wouldn’t kill off a class. No sane game developer would kill off a profession. That is going against everything you work to strive for…

cough Paragon cough GW1 cough

To be fair, there was one viable build and you could even vary one skill which makes it almost like 2 builds!

Sure – I have an obsi and Vabbian armor on my Para, so she can show off both variations with style!

Durzlla.6295:

Wizzlock.3492:

Malcastus.6240:

…And no, they wouldn’t kill off a class. No sane game developer would kill off a profession. That is going against everything you work to strive for…

cough Paragon cough GW1 cough

Anet didn’t kill it off, the players did

Only in PvP, only in PvP

For the 1200 range dps comparisons, remember to consider things like projectile speed as well, since that plays a huge role in actual results (and of course any extra effects).

I would be happy if they got rid of ele if they let us change class and legendary. I’m seeing less and less point every day to logging in with mine. Mediocre in PvE, mediocre in WvW, mediocre in sPvP. At least with another class I’ll be good in one of them.

Durzlla.6295:

Swimsasa Stoon.8936:

spatial surge (assuming target is at 1200 range) – 348 (2 additional targets in beam)
long ranged shot (assuming target is at 1200 range) – 317 (projectile combo 20%)
fireball – 314
hip shot (with rifled barrels for 1200 range) – 251 (pierces targets, projectile combo 20%)
necrotic grasp – 246 (piercing , projectile combo 20%)
orb of wrath – 224
dual shot (with stronger bowstrings for 1200 range) – 212 (projectile combo 100%)
chain lightning – 203 (3 bounce)
stoning – 185 (weakness, projectile combo 100%)
bleeding shot – 155 (255 bleed, projectile combo 20%)
tranquilliser dart (with rifled barrels for 1200 range) – 130 (170 bleed, weakness, projectile combo 20%)
winds of chaos – 111 (chance of 298 bleed / 328 burn / vuln, 1 bounce, chance of might / fury to ally)
water blast – 111 (370 healing)

Spatial surge hits 3 times with 1,5 second cast time 348 dmg:
(348/1,5)x3=696 dps
Long Ranged Shot (1500 range when traited) 3/4th second cast time.
317/0,75= 423 dps
fireball (Attack speed is 1 attack per 1.4 seconds.)
314/1,4= 224 dps
hip shot 3/4th second cast time:
251/0,75= 335 dps
necrotic grasp 3/4th second cast time:
246/0,75= 328 dps
orb of wrath Actual attack speed is once every .8 seconds.
224/0,8=280 dps
dual shot 2x 212 at approximately 1.19 seconds per attack.
414/1.19=348 dps
Chain Lightning 3/4th cast time:
203/0,75=271 dps (more than fireball even if there’s only one target)
stoning Attack speed is 1 attack per 1.35 seconds.
185/1,35= 137 dps
bleeding shot – Attack speed is approximately 0.96 seconds per attack damage is 155+255=410
410/0,96=427 dps
tranquilizer dart 300 damage every 3/4th second:
300/0,75= 400 dps
winds of chaos ( a bit trickier to calculate) 0,75 casting time:
111+((1/3×298)(1/3×328)(vulnerability,might,fury))/0,75=427 dps +boons and vulnerability.
water blast Attack speed is 1 attack per 1.35 seconds.
111/1,35=82 dps….. there’s a heal though….

So now in order:
Spatial surge (696 dps) mesmer
Winds of Chaos (427 dps+perks) mesmer
Bleeding Shot (427 dps) warrior
Long ranged shot (423 dps) ranger
Tranquilizer dart (400dps) engineer
Dual shot (348 dps) warrior
Hip shot (335 dps) engineer
Necrotic grasp (328 dps) necromancer
Orb of Wrath (280 dps) Guardian

Chain lightning (271 dps) elementalist
Fireball (224 dps) elementalist
Stoning (137 dps) elementalist
Water blast (82 dps) elementalist.

Now you know how they compare.
We have the lowest ranged damage, lowest healthpool, lowest base armor no access to fear, aegis, retaliation, torment, any survivability mechanic, bunker spec and mobility nerfed to bits I thought it was just some whining but seeing these numbers I can’t help but just be very very very very very sad.

*
May I also note that this is after the staff got buffed!

Your math is a little off, for starters multi hit attacks ALWAYS show the total damage, not the damage per hit. In addition for calculation damage with skills such as Winds of Chaos you need to understand that burn and bleed only tick every second, and thus won’t tick until 1s after being applied so you may as well throw then out of that initial equation and just add them onto the DPS number afterwards.

But yeah, no ele (or other caster) is known for their auto attack, ESPECIALLY not ele, who has 25 skills they can be using to fill the gap.

That last part might be relevant if the profession was designed properly, but it is not. Attunements aren’t a toolset that allows you to change tactics/focus based on the situation as it evolves. They are just hoops you need to jump through to string together complex skill rotations that, for all the effort, only provide mediocre results.

If each attunement was capable of being viable at a given role with out attunement swapping. then maybe the decision to limit the overall power of the profession would make sense. That’s just not the case.

Fiontar.4695:

If each attunement was capable of being viable at a given role with out attunement swapping. then maybe the decision to limit the overall power of the profession would make sense. That’s just not the case.

This. As I wrote in another thread, eles pay dearly for 6 additional skills over the other classes:

- All 20 skills are individually worse than other classes skills
- All 20 skills have way higher cooldowns than other classes skills
- Lowest base health
- Lowest base armor
- Lowest base damage
- No active defense at all

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/Why-does-Anet-hate-Elementalists/page/2#post2317212

Aether McLoud.1975:

Fiontar.4695:

If each attunement was capable of being viable at a given role with out attunement swapping. then maybe the decision to limit the overall power of the profession would make sense. That’s just not the case.

This. As I wrote in another thread, eles pay dearly for 6 additional skills over the other classes:

- All 20 skills are individually worse than other classes skills
- All 20 skills have way higher cooldowns than other classes skills
- Lowest base health
- Lowest base armor
- Lowest base damage
- No active defense at all

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/Why-does-Anet-hate-Elementalists/page/2#post2317212

We have TONS of active defense through utilities, but the rest is all true…

One of my guildies had mentioned that he’d like to see the Traits that reduce skills in an element by X% to be buffed up to 40% and also affect that attunements CD (IE you have the trait for Earth making it so all your earth skills have a 40% faster CD and when/if you switch out of earth that attunement will be 40% shorter CD, but all others would be the same). Tbh, i think that’d actually be strong enough to make people able to stay in one attunement if they wanted, sure the skills wouldn’t be as STRONG as another profs, but they’d be able to be thrown out a lot faster shrugs

EDIT: Keep in mind that was my guildies idea, not mine, i think 40% is too much for skills, that’d drop Static fields CD down to 24s for example, however i do like the idea of them affecting Attunement CD because then spending points in Arcane wouldn’t be absolutely mandatory.

Durzlla.6295:

We have TONS of active defense through utilities, but the rest is all true…

Which all other classes have too IN ADDITION to the active defenses built into their weapon sets and class mechanics.

Aether McLoud.1975:

Durzlla.6295:

We have TONS of active defense through utilities, but the rest is all true…

Which all other classes have too IN ADDITION to the active defenses built into their weapon sets and class mechanics.

That depends on the weapon, for example, dagger and focus have a bunch of defensive things built in IE: Frost Aura, Comet, Healing Wave, Swirling Defense Obsidian Flesh etc. Staff has -some- with the Burning Retreat and Magnetic Aura (and a few snares but those are more control instead of defense).

And not EVERY prof has defense on weapons IE: Ranger Axe/Torch(or Warhorn), Longbow (on warrior or ranger) etc.

Thrashbarg.9820:

My suggestion for balance is simple. Bump base HP to the level of mesmers. Guardians have aegis and virtue-regen without any traits or utilities/weapons and they also have higher base armor (don’t give me that crap about how it’s not much different either, damage reduction is damage reduction in this game of number vs. numbers more numbers is ALWAYS better, I’ve long lost count of how many times I’ve lived by a handful of HP). Thieves have escape/damage/mitigation built into every weapon, we have to actively choose to have damage or mitigation available and what to put on cooldown when. Elementalists need to trait for water/arcane to get similar regeneration to an untraited guardian, have limited active and no passive blocks.

^ this and I will be satisfied

Nenthil.4312:

Thrashbarg.9820:

My suggestion for balance is simple. Bump base HP to the level of mesmers. Guardians have aegis and virtue-regen without any traits or utilities/weapons and they also have higher base armor (don’t give me that crap about how it’s not much different either, damage reduction is damage reduction in this game of number vs. numbers more numbers is ALWAYS better, I’ve long lost count of how many times I’ve lived by a handful of HP). Thieves have escape/damage/mitigation built into every weapon, we have to actively choose to have damage or mitigation available and what to put on cooldown when. Elementalists need to trait for water/arcane to get similar regeneration to an untraited guardian, have limited active and no passive blocks.

^ this and I will be satisfied

I agree with this as well. The Ele is always going to be locked into heavy Water investment for any reasonable build as long as our base HP is so abysmal, and we’re always going to need a heavy Arcana investment as long as we have to spend so much time cycling through Water for heals so we don’t lock ourselves out of DPS for an unacceptable amount of time. With more base health, we could consider building glassier and/or taking fewer Cantrips. It’s possible that our healing would need to be nerfed a bit to compensate (so the bunker builds that already do well wouldn’t become monsters) but that would come down to tuning.

Hell, they could give us necro hp and our glass canon builds still wouldn’t be op, since we are so easy to catch and focus down compared to thieves and mesmers that constantly cause foes to lose target. Even bunker builds wouldn’t be really op since max hp is almost an afterthought when massive healing comes into the mix… effective hp would remain almost the same but just with a one-off hp advantage at the start of fights which would help against burst.

Jabberwock.9014:

Hell, they could give us necro hp and our glass canon builds still wouldn’t be op, since we are so easy to catch and focus down compared to thieves and mesmers that constantly cause foes to lose target. Even bunker builds wouldn’t be really op since max hp is almost an afterthought when massive healing comes into the mix… effective hp would remain almost the same but just with a one-off hp advantage at the start of fights which would help against burst.

You do know that almost every other profession board thinks the Ele is very OP, right?

Blaine Tog.8304:

You do know that almost every other profession board thinks the Ele is very OP, right?

Most people who post on the forums get their opinions from the forums. They read “ele OP” for a long time and nobody has told them ele has been brought down, so they simply don’t know.

It’s the same thing with necro right now. Bad players get destroyed and go to the forum, where they see other bad players screaming OP. Now they have their excuse for why they lost (couldn’t be because they’re bad, right?) and join the OP chorus.

Blaine Tog.8304:

Jabberwock.9014:

Hell, they could give us necro hp and our glass canon builds still wouldn’t be op, since we are so easy to catch and focus down compared to thieves and mesmers that constantly cause foes to lose target. Even bunker builds wouldn’t be really op since max hp is almost an afterthought when massive healing comes into the mix… effective hp would remain almost the same but just with a one-off hp advantage at the start of fights which would help against burst.

You do know that almost every other profession board thinks the Ele is very OP, right?

What do you know about Eles? Why quote other professions’s opinion with no your own experience? If I tell you the Earth is flat, would you believe me? Make one, play a few games, then come back and tell us how OP Eles is.

Stealth.9324:

What do you know about Eles?

I know I’ve been an Ele main in GW2 since day 1. I play everything except Warrior but the Ele is what I play when I want to come home, so to speak.

Stealth.9324:

Why quote other professions’s opinion with no your own experience?

For parallax. I can tell you what I think (and I did, earlier in the thread) but the external perspective is useful as well.

I find it telling that everyone thinks everyone else is overpowered. That indicates to me that most people are myopic about their profession, and also that the balance is pretty good in this game. Far from perfect and ANet absolutely needs to continue to step up their game, but hysterically screaming about how UP we are is silly and just plain incorrect.

Caffynated.5713:

Blaine Tog.8304:

You do know that almost every other profession board thinks the Ele is very OP, right?

Most people who post on the forums get their opinions from the forums. They read “ele OP” for a long time and nobody has told them ele has been brought down, so they simply don’t know.

It’s the same thing with necro right now. Bad players get destroyed and go to the forum, where they see other bad players screaming OP. Now they have their excuse for why they lost (couldn’t be because they’re bad, right?) and join the OP chorus.

Your Necro example seems to indicate the opposite trend from what you described in the first paragraph. There are a lot of posts in the Necro forum about how OP the Necro is after this last patch (though don’t worry, there’s still the chorus that’s convinced Necros suck), but if the community simply formed its opinions off momentum from previous times, then no one would think the Necro is OP.

Furthermore, your argument could easily be turned around. “Bad players do poorly with the Ele and they go to the forums, where they see other bad players screaming UP. Now they have their excuse for why they lost (couldn’t be because they’re bad, right?) and join the UP chorus.”

My point in bringing up the other forums wasn’t to say that the Ele is OP. It was to provide some outside perspective. It may feel like you never get away, but that’s just because you only remember the times you were caught. Conversely, other professions don’t tend to remember the times they catch Eles but rather the times that that Ele got away, or just kept healing back to full. Things are rarely as bad as one side or the other thinks. The truth is mostly in the middle.

Blaine Tog.8304:

Stealth.9324:

What do you know about Eles?

I know I’ve been an Ele main in GW2 since day 1. I play everything except Warrior but the Ele is what I play when I want to come home, so to speak.

Stealth.9324:

Why quote other professions’s opinion with no your own experience?

For parallax. I can tell you what I think (and I did, earlier in the thread) but the external perspective is useful as well.

I find it telling that everyone thinks everyone else is overpowered. That indicates to me that most people are myopic about their profession, and also that the balance is pretty good in this game. Far from perfect and ANet absolutely needs to continue to step up their game, but hysterically screaming about how UP we are is silly and just plain incorrect.

I agree with what you say here. I actually have Myopia, and those who don’t know what it is: Shot Sighted, you have to wear glasses 24/7 and can’t see anything in the distance without them. Everything short distance (book reading distance) is generally clear.

Back to elementalist. I have been playing ele since BW1. While I didn’t create my main ele toon till about a week or 2 after release (I work 2 jobs) I have played it since. Screaming that something is UP while others scream OP isn’t going to help anyone. To those screaming OP, come and play our class, to those screaming UP work on your build, don’t just copy paste someone else’s.

I was able to make a very powerful d/d build that wasn’t a dapheonix build (though I did take some guidance from his build, mainly changing 10 earth to 10 air). I’ve been able to find a place for the Frost Bow and Flaming Greatsword. My friend has been able to make a build around the flame axe and has run a very powerful staff build since day 1 of release without reading any guides or having someone spoon feed him a build.

Throwing away C/F because it doesn’t stun break anymore, boo hoo, how many of you used it as a stun break and not as a condition cleanse? I used it to apply burning and condition cleans, I rarely held it long enough to break stun.

Jabberwock.9014:

Hell, they could give us necro hp and our glass canon builds still wouldn’t be op, since we are so easy to catch and focus down compared to thieves and mesmers that constantly cause foes to lose target. Even bunker builds wouldn’t be really op since max hp is almost an afterthought when massive healing comes into the mix… effective hp would remain almost the same but just with a one-off hp advantage at the start of fights which would help against burst.

Exactly. Bunker builds weren’t nerfed because they were OP, because the weren’t. They were nerfed because they were viable and Elementalist is not supposed to be viable. Having a couple viable builds just brings attention to the lack of viability for the profession. They don’t know how to fix the profession, so much easier to nerf it to oblivion.

I will be shocked if S/D burst builds aren’t nerfed with in the next 60 days.

Which forums are saying that Elementalists are OP? Don’t think I have seen such a complaint in a long time – the only exceptions being the two on entering keeps while in vapor form.

What I mostly see:
Necros are OP (Don’t agree, but there are a lot of threads on this)
Thieves are OP (which, as a Thief, I agree with)

Where are you getting these ‘Eles are OP’ threads from?

Blaine Tog.8304:

…….

I find it telling that everyone thinks everyone else is overpowered. That indicates to me that most people are myopic about their profession, and also that the balance is pretty good in this game. Far from perfect and ANet absolutely needs to continue to step up their game, but hysterically screaming about how UP we are is silly and just plain incorrect.

True to an extent. Keep in mind there are players out there who are arguing for arguments sake, simply parroting anothers view with no first person knowledge of their own, pretending to know so they look smart, simply cannot play the class and think those are the reasons, or are arguing from a different persepctive, the latter being your myopic. However, while I agree with you that the class works well, that is because I have accepted what the class gives me. I can’t fault players who want the class to be something different. They would run into the middle of the freeway to try and stop traffic, while I would choose in this instance to stand by the side of the freeway and wave the cars on. I could misconstrue their actions as futile while they could misconstrue mine as pacifist.

Necros are way OP at least in WvW. Any necro worth his allotment of oxygen will tell you that.

Jabberwock.9014:

I would be happy if they got rid of ele if they let us change class and legendary. I’m seeing less and less point every day to logging in with mine. Mediocre in PvE, mediocre in WvW, mediocre in sPvP. At least with another class I’ll be good in one of them.

Unless that class is a guardian, then you’ll be good at all three!

How much for a profession-reset scroll?……

The next SoTG is tomorrow so it will be interesting to see how they feel the changes have gone and future changes.

I just can’t see them not touching fire trait line at all when everyone knows it was the worst line.

To the person that said nobody is complaining about ele’s go to the mesmer forums and look at the thread about patch discussion merged. Somehow the ele came up in that discussion on the last few pages. Specifically how we heal so much and have awesome defenses begins to compare blurred frenzy with arcane shield.

The ele is brought up alot by other professions on the forums when they talk about why their main class doesn’t have this but ele has this and this.

Just from the forums I frequent (professions I play) the theme is many classes are in envy of something another class gets. These aren’t 1 page full of threads saying the same thing but it definitely comes up often.

Warrior complaint threads use – Guardians or Elementalist to make their case because we have better sustain than them.

Elementalist complaint threads refer to – thieves because they can burst

Mesmers – want out of combat mobility usually referring to thieves or elementalist or warriors

Thief complaint threads – usually lack of support options come up. Now it’s more we have not 1200 range option like X profession.

I don’t go on other forums much since I don’t play those classes but I do come to the forums alot to each professions sub section these examples are usually the ones to pop up the most.

Swimsasa Stoon.8936:

spatial surge (assuming target is at 1200 range) – 348 (2 additional targets in beam)
long ranged shot (assuming target is at 1200 range) – 317 (projectile combo 20%)
fireball – 314
hip shot (with rifled barrels for 1200 range) – 251 (pierces targets, projectile combo 20%)
necrotic grasp – 246 (piercing , projectile combo 20%)
orb of wrath – 224
dual shot (with stronger bowstrings for 1200 range) – 212 (projectile combo 100%)
chain lightning – 203 (3 bounce)
stoning – 185 (weakness, projectile combo 100%)
bleeding shot – 155 (255 bleed, projectile combo 20%)
tranquilliser dart (with rifled barrels for 1200 range) – 130 (170 bleed, weakness, projectile combo 20%)
winds of chaos – 111 (chance of 298 bleed / 328 burn / vuln, 1 bounce, chance of might / fury to ally)
water blast – 111 (370 healing)

Spatial surge hits 3 times with 1,5 second cast time 348 dmg:
(348/1,5)x3=696 dps
Long Ranged Shot (1500 range when traited) 3/4th second cast time.
317/0,75= 423 dps
fireball (Attack speed is 1 attack per 1.4 seconds.)
314/1,4= 224 dps
hip shot 3/4th second cast time:
251/0,75= 335 dps
necrotic grasp 3/4th second cast time:
246/0,75= 328 dps
orb of wrath Actual attack speed is once every .8 seconds.
224/0,8=280 dps
dual shot 2x 212 at approximately 1.19 seconds per attack.
414/1.19=348 dps
Chain Lightning 3/4th cast time:
203/0,75=271 dps (more than fireball even if there’s only one target)
stoning Attack speed is 1 attack per 1.35 seconds.
185/1,35= 137 dps
bleeding shot – Attack speed is approximately 0.96 seconds per attack damage is 155+255=410
410/0,96=427 dps
tranquilizer dart 300 damage every 3/4th second:
300/0,75= 400 dps
winds of chaos ( a bit trickier to calculate) 0,75 casting time:
111+((1/3×298)(1/3×328)(vulnerability,might,fury))/0,75=427 dps +boons and vulnerability.
water blast Attack speed is 1 attack per 1.35 seconds.
111/1,35=82 dps….. there’s a heal though….

So now in order:
Spatial surge (696 dps) mesmer
Winds of Chaos (427 dps+perks) mesmer
Bleeding Shot (427 dps) warrior
Long ranged shot (423 dps) ranger
Tranquilizer dart (400dps) engineer
Dual shot (348 dps) warrior
Hip shot (335 dps) engineer
Necrotic grasp (328 dps) necromancer
Orb of Wrath (280 dps) Guardian

Chain lightning (271 dps) elementalist
Fireball (224 dps) elementalist
Stoning (137 dps) elementalist
Water blast (82 dps) elementalist.

Now you know how they compare.
We have the lowest ranged damage, lowest healthpool, lowest base armor no access to fear, aegis, retaliation, torment, any survivability mechanic, bunker spec and mobility nerfed to bits I thought it was just some whining but seeing these numbers I can’t help but just be very very very very very sad.

*
May I also note that this is after the staff got buffed!

For the beginning elementalist who may be tempted to buy into this argument, consider that this argument is limited to single target dps only.

Fireball is an aoe but is listed for damage to one target only.

Chain lightning hits 3 targets but is listed for one only.

Stoning adds weakness with reduces damage done by just about anything including many bosses to 50% half the time, including now crits.

Water Blast is an aoe heal for about 400+ per target.

Any ele who is attacking with their #1 skill more than accidently is not playing the class effectively.

^ auto attacks are almost the only abilities you have that will hit a moving target and they’re all poor damage.

I’m sure you really hurt the grass with your epic eruption, ice spike, lava font combo, but players just walk out of it.

Caffynated.5713:

^ auto attacks are almost the only abilities you have that will hit a moving target and they’re all poor damage.

I’m sure you really hurt the grass with your epic eruption, ice spike, lava font combo, but players just walk out of it.

Again, a situation where skills are put to the wrong use and then used to invalidate those skills and indeed the entire class.

Baladir.2736:

Caffynated.5713:

^ auto attacks are almost the only abilities you have that will hit a moving target and they’re all poor damage.

I’m sure you really hurt the grass with your epic eruption, ice spike, lava font combo, but players just walk out of it.

Again, a situation where skills are put to the wrong use and then used to invalidate those skills and indeed the entire class.

Seems more like you are considering effectiveness against horrible opponents who will stand in AoE circles as the standard for judging the profession.

Even in MMOs where AoE nukers have incredible crowd control they tend to have extremely high DPS numbers, with the class balanced by low HP and armor. In GW2, we have the worst HP and Armor combo in the game, poor CC and mediocre, at best, damage.

Before the patch, we could at least gain some survivability through mobility. Apparently, tactical use of mobility for very modest survivability is a no-no for Elementalists now.

Apparently, ANet has no idea how to make this profession work, so they are just dismantling it down to one or two builds they can balance for PvP and letting the rest of it rot on the vine. Think that’s improbable? The same developer did the same thing to Paragon in GW1, for apparently similar reasons.

One definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. At some point it should become obvious that a mix of developers who can’t do MMO class balance shouldn’t be tasked with doing MMO class balance. I don’t care if someone has been painting every day for the last eight years of their life. If they have no talent for painting, they are never going to be a successful painter.

Does no one in this thread know how to use a staff? This is just sad….

Baladir.2736:

Again, a situation where skills are put to the wrong use and then used to invalidate those skills and indeed the entire class.

Durzlla.6295:

Does no one in this thread know how to use a staff? This is just sad….

Show us, oh glorious PvP masters. Teach the peasants how staff is an amazing weapon and isn’t a free kill like every other person in the entire game thinks it is.

http://event.msi.com/vga/afterburner/download.htm

Here’s a free video capture program if you don’t have one. Show me your incredible use of staff.

Caffynated.5713:

Baladir.2736:

Again, a situation where skills are put to the wrong use and then used to invalidate those skills and indeed the entire class.

Durzlla.6295:

Does no one in this thread know how to use a staff? This is just sad….

Show us, oh glorious PvP masters. Teach the peasants how staff is an amazing weapon and isn’t a free kill like every other person in the entire game thinks it is.

http://event.msi.com/vga/afterburner/download.htm

Here’s a free video capture program if you don’t have one. Show me your incredible use of staff.

Yes, and while you’re at it, show us how DD eles can escape any class with 40+ second cooldowns.

Mek.2947:

Caffynated.5713:

Baladir.2736:

Again, a situation where skills are put to the wrong use and then used to invalidate those skills and indeed the entire class.

Durzlla.6295:

Does no one in this thread know how to use a staff? This is just sad….

Show us, oh glorious PvP masters. Teach the peasants how staff is an amazing weapon and isn’t a free kill like every other person in the entire game thinks it is.

http://event.msi.com/vga/afterburner/download.htm

Here’s a free video capture program if you don’t have one. Show me your incredible use of staff.

Yes, and while you’re at it, show us how DD eles can escape any class with 40+ second cooldowns.

shrugs I’ll let someone else do the DD escape I play staff, but I’ll get some PvP footage once I can get my group together for PvP (tried to get them rallied for tonight but 2 are MIA ATM, hopefully I’ll have it by Thursday)

EDIT: I’ve been using Afterburner for years and never knew it was able to record…. wow i haven’t been using that to it’s full potential…