Guild Wars 2

someone asks how Engi’s are doing these days,,,“we are still amazing in both PVE and PVP”
“Engineers are fantastic in every single game mode and they have a variety of builds for everything”
I thought "wow wouldnt it be great if us Ele’s felt that way ..lol

I love my Ele and would never switch mains but I find it hard to beleive Anet would not get that we need a few tweaks to help us to start saying things like that!

most ELE posts over the last year have offered excellent ideas,in depth statistical logical ideas to slightly improve our beloved class but instead the nerf us,,,I dont get it
I know you will all crucify me for this post but it’s made out of love for the class I love,,,I just want us to have a more fair chance..

there are actually some posts like that in this forum
you need strong stats or mechanics for casual/non-pro players to really play around with builds and enjoy their profession
elementalist does Not have this

Engineer really is an extremely well-rounded class with many viable builds and a high skillcap. I heartily recommend it to anyone who is sick of their Ele, but still wants a class that takes some thought to play and pushing lots of buttons to be effective.

Don’t let the description of engineer mislead you into thinking the class is “gimmicky” or something (I thought the same till I played it). It’s an extremely well-designed class with solid mechanics, all of which flow smoothly in combat. You won’t be waiting for dumb attunements to come off cooldown, your entire pool of abilities (kits) are always ready. You have LOTS of survivability, excellent condition builds, excellent bunker builds, decent power builds, etc.

The grass is truly greener.

Wintel.4873:

You won’t be waiting for dumb attunements to come off cooldown, your entire pool of abilities (kits) are always ready. You have LOTS of survivability, excellent condition builds, excellent bunker builds, decent power builds, etc.

Except that you sacrifice utility slots for those kits and the ele gets 4 skills slots just by equipping a weapon. As for the rest of your post, in my personal experience I have all that on my ele and not enough of it on my engineer.

Like you said, the grass is greener on the other side…but that goes for the other side as well.

ThiBash.5634:

Except that you sacrifice utility slots for those kits and the ele gets 4 skills slots just by equipping a weapon. As for the rest of your post, in my personal experience I have all that on my ele and not enough of it on my engineer.

Like you said, the grass is greener on the other side…but that goes for the other side as well.

Actually, the utility slots you’re losing because of picking a kit is compensated by the Toolkit skills.

sorrow.2364:

Actually, the utility slots you’re losing because of picking a kit is compensated by the Toolkit skills.

That would be true if you didn’t also get a toolbelt skill for other utilities.

ThiBash.5634:

sorrow.2364:

Actually, the utility slots you’re losing because of picking a kit is compensated by the Toolkit skills.

That would be true if you didn’t also get a toolbelt skill for other utilities.

Still a net loss of zero skills compared to the ele if you take three kits, and an engi gets vastly more versatility because of the variety available to them.

ThiBash.5634:

Like you said, the grass is greener on the other side…but that goes for the other side as well.

I wish this was a matter opinion, but it’s not. There’s just no way anyone an sugar-coat the huge list of issues Ele has right now.

Don’t worry ele there will always be a place for you mindlessly stacking might in dungeon groups

P Fun Daddy.1208:

Still a net loss of zero skills compared to the ele if you take three kits, and an engi gets vastly more versatility because of the variety available to them.

Remember another great thing about engineers’ setup is because kits are optional, anet has to consider how the class would play without them or with just one or two. This leads to both weapon and kit ability cooldowns to be much shorter than elementalists’ weapon ability cooldowns. Most engineers find more than 1 or 2 kits to be unnecessary as it’s just ability overload, while elementalists need all 4 attunements or they’d easily run out of “good buttons to push”.

ens.9854:

Don’t worry ele there will always be a place for you mindlessly stacking might in dungeon groups

or heals for unexperienced groups in low level dungeons z__z

cheshirefox.7026:

ens.9854:

Don’t worry ele there will always be a place for you mindlessly stacking might in dungeon groups

or heals for unexperienced groups in low level dungeons z__z

Don’t forget our five minutes of FB glory in AC!

P Fun Daddy.1208:

cheshirefox.7026:

ens.9854:

Don’t worry ele there will always be a place for you mindlessly stacking might in dungeon groups

or heals for unexperienced groups in low level dungeons z__z

Don’t forget our five minutes of FB glory in AC!

I still like doing Tequatl on Blackgate every now and then b/c my ele is one of the most important people there! Frostbows, FGS, and Swirling Winds own the whole encounter.

My main was an elementalist. I rolled an engeneer. For pve i prefer elementalist but in pvp there is no way. Engeneer is hard as elementalist as skills , even in pvp for healing you have to use a combo but Engeneer is much more viable. You can play dps, condi or bunker as you prefer and eng can fit many roles quite well. On the other side i feel that engeneer is really good for pvp only , for pve (for me) it is not funny. It is viable but not funny in pve ( too long on grenades for ranging boss)

Engeneer is what elementalist should be … the difference is that (for pvp) engeneer kits are much stronger than elementalist attunement. Every kit, like weapons of engeneer has 1 or 2 defence skill so you can last and defend yourself quite well ( blind, cripple , block and so on ) . The same is not on elementalist . Many time with elementalist if i can not dodge i feel myself nake to damage .

PierPiero.9142:

My main was an elementalist. I rolled an engeneer. For pve i prefer elementalist but in pvp there is no way. Engeneer is hard as elementalist as skills , even in pvp for healing you have to use a combo but Engeneer is much more viable. You can play dps, condi or bunker as you prefer and eng can fit many roles quite well. On the other side i feel that engeneer is really good for pvp only , for pve (for me) it is not funny. It is viable but not funny in pve ( too long on grenades for ranging boss)

I think you mean “fun”, not “funny” :P

sorry eng is not my first lang i should study it better when i was young at school … many years ago time past too fast

In any case , if i should delete a character and should choose between engeneer and elementalist, now i sadly delete elementalist for my list becouse i find for the most of the situations engeneer much better. I think engeneer is what elementalist should have been : quite good for any situation. I don’t feel the same on elementalist . I played elementalist since start and eng only from few monthes. I am not happy of this feeling.

P Fun Daddy.1208:

Still a net loss of zero skills compared to the ele if you take three kits, and an engi gets vastly more versatility because of the variety available to them.

True, but how effective are those kits unless you trait for them? How good is a grenade kit without the grandmaster trait? Or a bomb kit for that matter? The ele’s skills are decent right off the bat, and they get the versatility as baseline rather than having to take specific kits or skills for them.

As for the versatility, the ele has more on-the-spot versatility, whereas the engineer has to pick his tricks when making his build.

Wintel.4873:

I wish this was a matter opinion, but it’s not. There’s just no way anyone an sugar-coat the huge list of issues Ele has right now.

It’s still a matter of opinion, because while those issues have merit, they can be played around. I’ll kindly refer you to my signature: if I can do it, anyone can because I’m really not that great a player…just a creative one.

ThiBash.5634:

It’s still a matter of opinion, because while those issues have merit, they can be played around.

The very fact you said that the issues have merit and need to “be played around” proves it’s NOT a matter of opinion.

People could find ways to make even a naked trait-less class work through creativity/skill. It wouldn’t change the fact that applying the same level of creativity/skill to any OTHER class = always better results than Elementalist. Balance is about comparing to other classes and currently Elementalist is at the bottom of the bucket, it’s been like that for over 6 months now.
Those “Class Tier” threads really rub it in, almost everyone ranks Ele’s dead last. Like…dead, dead, dead last.

kits are influenced by traits but u can use granades of bombs without going in explosive. You loose some damage but u gane something else. For example if you go for firearms you gain condition damage and bomb and nades give it a lot. Engeneer toolikt are far less better than elementalist attunement and i play elemementalist since alomst 18 monthes . Playing eng i understood what really miss elementalist which are defence capabilities. When i am in fire or in air i can’t do too much for defend myself, where when i am using bomb i can cripple and create confusion.. and so for all engi weapons. It is much better to defend myself with engi so it is much easy to survive. This for me make the difference .

try to fight a warriorr, a thief , or a guardian with elementalist or engeneer . You can win with elementalist but it is really really harder than with engi and i am not a pro. And usually even if i die i make them much more damage and on a point i last much more.
Even in support, engeneer gives to group less support that elementalist but it is not su unsuefull (elixir gun 3 for example can make the difference in some cases)

Are you saying that elementalist is ok as is now ? i am only saying that with the same amount of knowledge eng is much more viable… only this.

ens.9854:

Don’t worry ele there will always be a place for you mindlessly stacking might in dungeon groups

don’t forget mindlessly dropping water fields (heals) and statics (speed) in PVP…

Eles pay way too high of a price for “versatility”. Blizzard tried the same thing with the Druid class, which was widely regarded as terrible until they reworked talent (AKA trait) trees to allow druids to specialise more in DPS/heals/tanking. In general Ele traits are not all that impactful – DPS/heal/tank role is more dictated by stats than talents for Eles in this game and I think that’s wrong.

Blizz made druids more specialised not because they were bad but because they could carry flag, deal damage, tank damage and heal themselves at the same time :p

Karamon.6208:

Blizz made druids more specialised not because they were bad but because they could carry flag, deal damage, tank damage and heal themselves at the same time :p

No at release, druids could do all 3 of them, but did all 3 badly. Healing was within sight of being decent. By TBC, druids could melee DPS and tank well, OR nuke well, OR heal well, and do the other things at ~50% effectiveness.

GW2 Ele is like release druid but needs to move more in the direction of TBC druid. Slightly less versatile, but more able to be competitive at a single role instead of being mediocre at all of them.

Ele can be amazing in WvW/PvP but you need 3 things:
1: Fully ascended gear
2: A carefully crafted build that has to do with your playstyle
3: Skill and freaking fast fingers

Wintel.4873:

The very fact you said that the issues have merit and need to “be played around” proves it’s NOT a matter of opinion.

The reason I wrote that is because I realize that the skill level required to play the elementalist effectively may be a bit too high for the majority of the players, that don’t want to invest the time needed to learn how to play the profession well. That doesn’t mean that it cannot be amazing in the right hands.

I don’t blame people for going for the warrior and skip 3 months of practice for the same results. But I do not agree with the statement that because the ele requires a lot of practice, it also means it’ll never equal professions that don’t require a lot of practice.

Professions that are harder to learn attract less players, which results in fewer top players, which lets people think it’s a poor choice, which in turn leads to less players…it’s a vicious circle.

Those “Class Tier” threads really rub it in, almost everyone ranks Ele’s dead last. Like…dead, dead, dead last.

The majority rules in a democracy but that does not mean they’re always right.

I mostly play WvW-smallscae so i cant speak for dungeon-stuff or spvp.

I main engi since beta and i also have geared up D/D Ele and cant belive what you guys are writing here. Engi is actual in his worst state since release, last patch killed again a couple of builds, this happens in almost every second patch.

Ele is far superior in sustain, healing, support, condicleanses, mobility and damage it isnt even funny. The traits are awesome and close to be op. The only thing where engis are better is condition builds and killing a half decent ele with a condition engineer takes ages if he doesnt run away.

Engineer has by far the most horrible stability Skill in gw2, the worst downstate ever they suffer like no ones else from retalliaton and confusion, this class doesnt forgive a mistake. You have to sacrifize utility slots for mobility and for weapon-swap.

But hey reroll engi, its an awesome class but sadly it became unviable for the game i play, you just cant have stability, cond-remove, mobility and damage in one build.
Jes you could run elixirs+rocket boots but then you would just have an ele without attunements.

Kontrolle.3514:

I mostly play WvW-smallscae so i cant speak for dungeon-stuff or spvp.

I main engi since beta and i also have geared up D/D Ele and cant belive what you guys are writing here. Engi is actual in his worst state since release, last patch killed again a couple of builds, this happens in almost every second patch.

Ele is far superior in sustain, healing, support, condicleanses, mobility and damage it isnt even funny. The traits are awesome and close to be op. The only thing where engis are better is condition builds and killing a half decent ele with a condition engineer takes ages if he doesnt run away.

Engineer has by far the most horrible stability Skill in gw2, the worst downstate ever they suffer like no ones else from retalliaton and confusion, this class doesnt forgive a mistake. You have to sacrifize utility slots for mobility and for weapon-swap.

But hey reroll engi, its an awesome class but sadly it became unviable for the game i play, you just cant have stability, cond-remove, mobility and damage in one build.
Jes you could run elixirs+rocket boots but then you would just have an ele without attunements.

Hahaha this is solid gold, especially the last paragraph.

Engi main here. I played with Ele for awhile after being disappointed initially with the necro during launch, but then I went back to the necro because it was lower maintenance. I still question that decision to this day…

That said, I do wish for good things for the Elementalist, my fellow carpal tunnel brethren. Even when the elementalist was on top, it seemed like the ele had to fight an uphill battle just to get there. Now that the ele is doing worse than ever… I feel bad about it. Normally when mesmers or thieves lose position in the game, I’m like “yeah, whatever”. But for some reason the ele still stays in my eye.

The grass is greener here, but only because it’s secretly crab grass in disguise. Engineers get hit with at least one nerf per patch, and over time that has added up: The change in static shield hurt, the removal of 100 nades hurt and changes to kit refinement hurt, the emphasis on boon removal and stealing hurts, turrets have been uttrly destroyed (which was my favorite spec!), the nerf to grenade power hurt, the vigor nerf hurt, the removal of instantaneous cast and loss of stun breaker on Elixir R killed nearly every build everyone was using at the time, the haste change was a bit painful, the nerf to Elixir S turned one of our most useful skills and traits into a death trap… it has left us with a bit of a hard place in sPVP. Our viable stun breakers were killed, my favorite turret spec was glitched then nerfed into oblivion, our power keeps being leeched from our skills, and our appearance is terrible due to those kitten hobo-sacks. In the condition meta we didn’t have super effective condition cleanse (often forcing us into Automated Response, but hey: diamond skin), and in the stun/cc meta our stun breakers suck, and in WvW retaliation eats us for breakfast. And don’t get me started on our down state…

I suppose the reason why we’re still around is because, along with the great nerfs of 2013, so many of our other utilities and traits have been buffed that the engineer has achieved something that no other class has: unpredictability. The wide diversity in our utilities and traits has made it so, while we don’t have strong focused builds, Engis have so much diversity in builds that you never know what an engi will do until they do it.

Dont even try this as an ele.

Fasyx.9347:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-mdnFHyP88

Dont even try this as an ele.

All of these videos showing winning on 1vx amount are always misleading. Any good player perfectly knows that one versus two good players no matter what profession or build you might be using, you just won’t win in this game. One good player is enough to give you a lot of trouble. I can easily show my burst ele winning 1v4 last night against awful players and state ele can do as much or even more than the engi……. but a video like that will simply mislead you into the wrong direction just like this one.

LightningBlaze.4913:

Fasyx.9347:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-mdnFHyP88

Dont even try this as an ele.

All of these videos showing winning on 1vx amount are always misleading. Any good player perfectly knows that one versus two good players no matter what profession or build you might be using, you just won’t win in this game. One good player is enough to give you a lot of trouble. I can easily show my burst ele winning 1v4 last night against awful players and state ele can do as much or even more than the engi……. but a video like that will simply mislead you into the wrong direction just like this one.

I wasn’t gonna say this because I didn’t want to sound like I was bragging, but you put it quite well.

If 1vX roaming fights is what you are looking for, I think elementalist might actually be the best class out there for the job. Stuff like that happens all the time in WvW, and not just to me, it’s weird to see a video made about it.