Guild Wars 2

Reduce the default cooldown on attunement swapping to match weapon swap (10s, I believe) and change Arcana so that it can shorten it by a maximum of 3 seconds at 30 points.

The only people who would run 30 Arcana would be those going specifically for the grandmaster traits – it would no longer be required for the class to be playable.

given that eles have 4 weapon sets it would be a little to strong in my oppinion

and you can still run it without the 30 in arcana

As long as they make Attunement cool-down go from 60% to 3% to match warriors brawn and make it 20s to match current weapon cool-downs. (so it would go down to 19s per attunement.)

I think the op means change the attunement cool down to match weapon swapping, not actually give us 4 weapon sets.

Weapon swapping cooldown is 10 seconds (per the wiki). Otherwise, I’ve no clue what you’re talking about, Daecollo – which isn’t a surprise, since you’re a well rehearsed troll.

KirbyPrime: I did mean change the attunement cooldown.

Korsabaek: I’ve got nothing dude – no clue what you’re talking about.

Korsbaek.9803:

given that eles have 4 weapon sets it would be a little to strong in my oppinion

and you can still run it without the 30 in arcana

I’ts kind of the point of having 4 weapons sets. Its’ what makes the class its own. Rangers have pets, necros have double HP bar etc etc. I am 100% behind the OP suggestion.

I’ve suggested this a number of times. It’s not like the Arcana traits aren’t absurdly good anyway.

/agree

I agree. Not sure where versatility comes from when we’re locked out of our attunements for so much time.

Daecollo.9578:

As long as they make Attunement cool-down go from 60% to 3% to match warriors brawn and make it 20s to match current weapon cool-downs. (so it would go down to 19s per attunement.)

You always bring a lot of good ideas to the table. But please remember to decrease recharges of all weapons skills by 50% and increase damage done by them by 100%.

Swim.6830:

Korsbaek.9803:

given that eles have 4 weapon sets it would be a little to strong in my oppinion

and you can still run it without the 30 in arcana

I’ts kind of the point of having 4 weapons sets. Its’ what makes the class its own. Rangers have pets, necros have double HP bar etc etc. I am 100% behind the OP suggestion.

This exactly. Every class has its flavor. We are already limited to one weapon type already. Every other class can choose melee, mid or long ranged to swap in combat. While ele’s are limited to one type for all 4 attunements. Swapping should be 10 sec standard. Give some other stat for the Arcana line.

haviz.1340:

Daecollo.9578:

As long as they make Attunement cool-down go from 60% to 3% to match warriors brawn and make it 20s to match current weapon cool-downs. (so it would go down to 19s per attunement.)

You always bring a lot of good ideas to the table. But please remember to decrease recharges of all weapons skills by 50% and increase damage done by them by 100%.

Why feed the troll?

I’m very kind man.

Tsai.8216:

Swim.6830:

Korsbaek.9803:

given that eles have 4 weapon sets it would be a little to strong in my oppinion

and you can still run it without the 30 in arcana

I’ts kind of the point of having 4 weapons sets. Its’ what makes the class its own. Rangers have pets, necros have double HP bar etc etc. I am 100% behind the OP suggestion.

This exactly. Every class has its flavor. We are already limited to one weapon type already. Every other class can choose melee, mid or long ranged to swap in combat. While ele’s are limited to one type for all 4 attunements. Swapping should be 10 sec standard. Give some other stat for the Arcana line.

its true that eles are looked in eighter melee, mid or long range but given them the same general lockout as a person with only 2 weapon sets is kinda strong if(and this is how i understod it) the achna stats boos is not changed in some way as the recharge then would get way to short and that is what i think would be op(think of chaneing to water each 4 seconed for healing(with trait points in water) or any of the others for there thins;)

Korsbaek, you missed the second bit – I asked to reduce the cooldown reduction to top out at 3 seconds – means we’d have a minimum cooldown of 7 seconds (still more than warrior) with an average cooldown of probably 9 seconds (which right now requires us to spec 30 into Arcana.)

I figure we should have the slightly shorter cooldown exactly because we’re stuck at one range the whole time we’re in battle. It would mean there’s a slightly greater chance of actually using some of the escape skills on staff, or the heal/defense skills on other weapon sets.

Ele’s are already starting from a relative disadvantage (less HP, less armour) and our only strength is healing.

This should put us on a more even field with everyone else, and allow for more build diversity (every build you see atm has 30 in Arcana for a reason – otherwise we’re stuck for 15 seconds, which is lousy.)

again, i think this misses an important point.

we have 4 attunements. the CD only affects your LAST attunement. for example -

you start with fire.
you change to water.
immediately, fire attunement has 10s cd (for 30 arcane), and earth/air has 1-2s cd.

you can change to earth/air almost immediately!

while i understand the benefits of swapping back – allowing better combos, especially earth. e.g. water > earth > fire > earth on staff ele works wonders. this 10s cd force eles to plan out their actions more carefully for more strategic gameplay.

again, comparing with ENG – while this is slower than engineer kits (no cd on kit swapping) – Ele’s don’t sacrifice a skill slot for that, and it is immensely confusing to effectively use more than 2 kits at a time for engineers.

Because attunement CD only affect last element rather than all 4, the Ele can still swap around 4 elements very often if he notice timers carefully. except that he cannot revert to previous element immediately.

for example -

start with fire –
2-3 s later swap water
2-3 s later swap earth (still waiting on fire..)
2-3 s later swap air
back to fire because 10s CD is over.. and so on..

If you reduced the cooldown they would have to nerf the buffs/traits that activate on swap or you are going to be pretty crazy with the buffyness.

Hexxen.7216:

If you reduced the cooldown they would have to nerf the buffs/traits that activate on swap or you are going to be pretty crazy with the buffyness.

Since most people already roll with 30 in arcana, which means they’re rotating at 9 seconds, I don’t see 10 second default (absolute minimum of 7 seconds) being that crazily OP.

i agree with this suggestion too. As a staff ele, right now there isnt so much versatility as there is throwing out all fire spells, then all water spells, then all air spells, then all earth spells, then back to fire etc etc.

I can’t go -“Oh man this is the perfect moment for an immobilize!” switch to Earth- because earth will be on cooldown unless I save it specifically for one of these moments, which may not come. And its the same for all attunements (water healing, air stun/blind etc.) so i guess i have versatility if i sit in fire all day and only swap when there is a perfect opportunity >.<

MagusShade.2358:

i agree with this suggestion too. As a staff ele, right now there isnt so much versatility as there is throwing out all fire spells, then all water spells, then all air spells, then all earth spells, then back to fire etc etc.

What about: place a static field, throw stones through it for vulnerability, eruption, then choose either fire for might or water for heals?

There’s plenty of versatility, but it’s hidden in the combo fields.

10sec is too short, needs to be 12sec base with 30 arcana making it 9, none of this will change the fact that other traitlines need to be…..lets use the word edited

I’m actually all for removing attunement swapping and making the different types of spells be based on weapon sets rather than having to switch attunements(like other profs), would be nice to use a fire spell without being locked out of using earth/air/water spells at the same time. This would open us up to get new weaponsets such as torch and maybe maces to make up for losing the 20 spells we have atm. Turn f1-f4 into one spell of each element that has its own cd, these would act more like engis toolbelt abilities. I think thats the best way to clean up this hot mess that eles have become where there’s next to no build viability and such low baseline stats across the board compared to all other profs. Staff ele still reigns supreme in my opinion, Combo Generator Extroardinare. Give me dual torches for my ele!!!

As someone posted, we can already swap through four attunements pretty quickly. I have 20 in arcana and I can pretty much rip through all four attunements and have my first one available immediately afterwards. Technically it works with three of the four, having my first ready after I’m done with my third.

This is not the same as swapping back and forth between two attunements of course, but consider that we effectively have four weapon sets. If you could switch back and forth between any two as fast as a spec’d out warrior can on his weapon sets, that would be a little much wouldn’t you agree?

Also as mentioned, that’s boon overload from the 10 point arcana trait. As it is I feel I can apply more boons than my guardian with less effort (and no slot skills required).

ThiBash.5634:

There’s plenty of versatility, but it’s hidden in the combo fields.

Versatility should not be hidden. Combo fields and finishers should add to the usefulness of a profession, not be the defining factor on its effectiveness. Nor should a class be balanced around making efficient use of every combo field all the time.

This was my gripe with the EA nerf(s). Not every build took it, and yet when used properly it was quite effective, ADDING to the Ele’s versatility. Then it was whine-nerfed into marginal usefulness, because people don’t like the Ele’s sole defense mechanism, healing.

juno.1840:

This is not the same as swapping back and forth between two attunements of course, but consider that we effectively have four weapon sets. If you could switch back and forth between any two as fast as a spec’d out warrior can on his weapon sets, that would be a little much wouldn’t you agree?

The marginal utility of being able to swap from Greatsword to Rifle is much greater than switching from Earth to Fire. Just the range difference alone is a huge benefit.

Ele’s really don’t have four weapon sets, what we actually have is one set of skills that is divided damage wise into fourths, and each fourth is a palette shifted copy of the others, with a few differences here and there for flavor.

juno.1840:

As someone posted, we can already swap through four attunements pretty quickly. I have 20 in arcana and I can pretty much rip through all four attunements and have my first one available immediately afterwards. Technically it works with three of the four, having my first ready after I’m done with my third.

This is not the same as swapping back and forth between two attunements of course, but consider that we effectively have four weapon sets. If you could switch back and forth between any two as fast as a spec’d out warrior can on his weapon sets, that would be a little much wouldn’t you agree?

Firstly, being locked into one range is a major disadvantage. Secondly, you have to take into account that d/d is the only weapon set that can deal damage effectively in 3 attunements; the attunements of the scepter and staff vary significantly in damage capability depending on build and situation.

For instance, if you’re using the scepter and build for Power and crit, the Earth attunement is pretty useless for damage (unless you can hit with the offhand dagger’s Churning Earth), and building for Condition Damage causes every attunement but Earth to do terrible DPS. (A mix of Power and Condition Damage results in every attunement doing sub-par damage due to the design of the scepter’s skill set.)

Also, the scepter’s Fire attunement skills are terrible at range, which means that you’re stuck with Air if you need ranged damage (doesn’t apply to condition builds, because they shouldn’t be using Fire for damage if they can help it).

Kaleban.9834:

The marginal utility of being able to swap from Greatsword to Rifle is much greater than switching from Earth to Fire. Just the range difference alone is a huge benefit.

Ele’s really don’t have four weapon sets, what we actually have is one set of skills that is divided damage wise into fourths, and each fourth is a palette shifted copy of the others, with a few differences here and there for flavor.

I agree with your statements, however the discussion was around the desire of having weapon-set based cooldowns for attunements. Whether or not switching between four attunements is as valuable as switching between two weapons was not really relevant.

My point is there are advantages to attunement switching that are not present on weapon swapping. Having the attunements switch faster may be OP when it comes to the frequency of:

- boon application (aracana 10pt trait)
- retained effects (aracana 15pt trait)
- healing (water 15 pt trait)
- condition removal (water 10pt trait)

Attunement switching is much more than just changing to a new set of five skills — which everyone knows, but it shouldn’t be overlooked when discussing the switching times. It’s a system problem and this is one important aspect of the system.

Kaleban.9834:

ThiBash.5634:

There’s plenty of versatility, but it’s hidden in the combo fields.

Versatility should not be hidden. Combo fields and finishers should add to the usefulness of a profession, not be the defining factor on its effectiveness. Nor should a class be balanced around making efficient use of every combo field all the time.

In this case I meant hidden as in ‘underused and overlooked’. Making proper use of combo fields is major part of staff gameplay. And given that combos can easily double or triple the amount of chill a Frozen Ground for example, can give, I think they shouldn’t be dismissed as ‘trivial bonusses’. Combos are an integral part of staff gameplay and neccesary for effective use of the weapon. For daggers and scepters they’re less essential.

Chaosky.5276:

being locked into one range is a major disadvantage

To me, range feels like a secondary aspect of the elementalist weapons, but that could be due to the fact that I often got into melee with my staff, and daggers are so mobile (and still have a lot of range).

ThiBash.5634:

Chaosky.5276:

being locked into one range is a major disadvantage

To me, range feels like a secondary aspect of the elementalist weapons, but that could be due to the fact that I often got into melee with my staff, and daggers are so mobile (and still have a lot of range).

Well, it is, which kinda sucks for me, seeing as I refuse to be restricted to close range. What I meant, though, is that in-combat versatility takes a heavy hit due to the range lock.
For instance, unlike other classes with ranged and/or support weapons (rifle warrior and staff guardian, for example), if we take the staff, we can’t take daggers for more damage and defense.

here a question I have that is sorta linked. We are able to disengage most if not all the bosses right? so it really that hard to run away, go around a corner and wait a few moments to switch up weapons if you really need to and rejoin the fight?

Kaleban.9834:

ThiBash.5634:

There’s plenty of versatility, but it’s hidden in the combo fields.

Versatility should not be hidden. Combo fields and finishers should add to the usefulness of a profession, not be the defining factor on its effectiveness. Nor should a class be balanced around making efficient use of every combo field all the time.

This was my gripe with the EA nerf(s). Not every build took it, and yet when used properly it was quite effective, ADDING to the Ele’s versatility. Then it was whine-nerfed into marginal usefulness, because people don’t like the Ele’s sole defense mechanism, healing.

Odd that even after the nerf it’s still one of the best traits in the entire profession. I’d hardly call that “whine-nerfed into marginal usefulness.”

I would love to see 12s base, with 9s cool-down at 30 Arcana. Even if it was base 10 going down to 7, it wouldn’t make a huge difference as the actual skill cooldowns are the choke-point with the 9s cooldown as is. If you swap right when available, most elements will still have a good-portion of their skills on cooldown. I actually think lower cooldowns promote a more surgical approach, as using skills can actually have a trade-off. Currently, skill-spamming makes sense, because, for instance, I might as well use water 2-3 before swapping out b/c they will be available when I come back anyway, and not using them doesn’t give me any access to them sooner after leaving water. If I knew I might be able to switch back for one in 5s, maybe I don’t just spam it.

I would ALSO like to see every X-Alacrity trait reduce that attunement’s spells cooldown by 20% (maybe more b/c individual spells are pretty weak given their current cooldowns, promoting the dance), and reduce the cooldown of the attunement by 20% as well. This wouldn’t be OP, as once again, the skill cooldown is still the limiting point, and it would open up other means of specializing in an attunement. If I wanted to be a fire-cannon, I could go 20/0/0/20/30, allowing fire to be on about a five second cooldown, such that I could swap to water, earth, or air for utilities, but have fire back very quickly so that I could keep trying to blast away.

Edit: changed wording to “a five second” because using numbers/letters was filtered.

stale.9785:

haviz.1340:

Daecollo.9578:

As long as they make Attunement cool-down go from 60% to 3% to match warriors brawn and make it 20s to match current weapon cool-downs. (so it would go down to 19s per attunement.)

You always bring a lot of good ideas to the table. But please remember to decrease recharges of all weapons skills by 50% and increase damage done by them by 100%.

Why feed the troll?

dac. cmon bro 3% thats just cruel… they deserve a solid 4%

I agree with the OP, and I’ll add it is long past time the AOE cap was removed from the game.