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Posted by: Keadron.9570

Keadron.9570

Please don’t use the excuse “it was to break the bunker meta” removing all the defensive amulets did that.
In this instance P stands for those complaining about ele, while A stands for uh… whomever was responsible for the changes.

P: “Ele has low health but it’s strong against my condi build that has no power!”
A: “We’ll butcher diamond skin by making it an on hit with icd, so they will have to run water too.”

P: “Ele used protection to survive my burst!”
A: “We’ll add more boon conversion to use their defense against them!”

P: “Ele used an aura to reflect my attack back at me!”
A: “We’ll reduce the duration of all their auras.”

P: “I auto attacked an ele but it healed itself and it’s teammate!” (Obviously wasn’t a thief)
A: “Don’t worry we’re reducing base healing to really drive home that we want dedicated healers/supports rather than just nerfing healing to allies.”

P: “Ele did more damage than me to a Large Immobile Target!”
A: “Who needs a risk vs reward ratio? We’ll reduce their best damage skills like lava font, meteor shower, and air overload to be more on par with other classes. But don’t worry they will still take more effort and be the squishiest dps. Have to leave them Shatterstone though cause we’ve buffed it 23 times and still don’t know why it’s kitten.”

Yes I’m annoyed and venting. I do not want to play support in pvp! I realize if you’re a great player you can play a handicapped dps and be decent but does that really make it ok?

(edited by Keadron.9570)

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Posted by: Feanor.2358

Feanor.2358

I don’t give a kitten about PvP, but PvE damage nerfs really triggered me. Yea, risk/reward is totally ruined. Grab a Thief, do “1-1-1-1-1-1…” and deal more damage than most eles. Sounds fair, right?

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Posted by: alain.1659

alain.1659

Ele is sadly dead. Even the scepter focus version is way behind other professions. But it is normal, as you see there are ups and downs for every profession in some time frame. I guess next big patch will solve many problems.

Dmg nerf was the hardest part, for me at least. I never liked to play that much “bunker” style. My advice for other ele’s is to choose a new profession, and wait for the balance. You cannot have a proper dedicated profession in gw2.

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Posted by: Jski.6180

Jski.6180

Ele is not viable as a mages any more its a pure bunker / healing class and nothing more. So its a solder class with light armor and low hp lol.

I know its an April fools joke but the notes for raid and ele dmg hits hard and to the core of what has happen to ele for pve (sadly that hits wvw too).

Main : Jski Imaginary ELE (Necromancer)
Guild : OBEY (The Legacy) I call it Obay , TLC (WvW) , UNIV (other)
Server : FA

(edited by Jski.6180)

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Posted by: Belorn.2659

Belorn.2659

> My advice for other ele’s is to choose a new profession, and wait for the balance

People being main ele should have a lot of ascended boxes since ele was a excellent choice in wvw, fractals and raids for a very long time. I can strongly recommend condi ranger while waiting, being one of the best dps choices and relative easy to learn.

KC encounter is the only place now where ele still feel like an ele.

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Posted by: Dadnir.5038

Dadnir.5038

Why do you look at the nerfs? Let’s buff shatterstone!

No core profession should be balanced around an optional elite specialization.

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Posted by: Keadron.9570

Keadron.9570

After the next 10 buffs it could be slightly better kitten than it is now

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Posted by: ZeftheWicked.3076

ZeftheWicked.3076

Cry me a river over diamond skin. I was playing a necro back then and i remember the horror. “No power” my kitten You could go viper (so plenty of power) and you still couldn’t beat bunker tempest. Full power necro couldn’t. That thing was broken from top to bottom.

Also for “useless class” you guys sure get a very “depressing” #1 spot in raid dps on many occasions.

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Posted by: Keadron.9570

Keadron.9570

A Necro main who doesn’t like diamond skin?! Well I think I might die of shock! A well played bunker tempest couldn’t be beat 1v1 really, which is kind of why it was a bunker. But guess what! That was with defensive amulets. Has anyone said DS shouldn’t be toned down no, but making it both on hit and icd was too much. It made water almost mandantory which hurt all offensive builds. Ele has a tiny hp pool making condi especially deadly. Then I suppose we aren’t necros who can be tanky without sacrificing dps and dish out heals at the same time so that makes it ok right?

(edited by Keadron.9570)

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Posted by: Malchior.5732

Malchior.5732

Has anyone said DS shouldn’t be toned down no, but making it both on hit and icd was too much.

Actually, a lot of Ele mains at the time did say it didn’t need to be toned down. They said it was perfectly fine that condi builds couldn’t touch them at all.
I vaguely remember a few individuals actually wanted it buffed so other builds could make better use of it, but I might be wrong.

It made water almost mandantory which hurt all offensive builds. Ele has a tiny hp pool making condi especially deadly.

Didn’t they run water anyway? I saw only a handful of DS “offensive” builds.
Also, I think a single trait destroying one of Ele’s biggest counters, which was prone to getting bogged down by groups due to very little mobility and few active defenses at the time, is kinda wrong.

Then I suppose we aren’t necros who can be tanky without sacrificing dps and dish out heals at the same time so that makes it ok right?

I don’t play pvp anymore, but at the time when Diamond Skin got changed, being a Necro with high damage was the only reason to play it. If you got caught out of position all you had was Flesh Wurm to save you IF you pre-cast it in a good spot.
It’s also a bit funny to say that considering that Ele was pretty tanky and could out-sustain pretty much anything when Celestial amulet was the most popular thing to use. It was so bad that people were running 3+ Eles in tournaments.

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Posted by: Jski.6180

Jski.6180

@malchior What realy happen is there been over all problems with the ele class but it was always able to do dmg to some level but that has been taken away over time. Wvw is mostly condi dmg something ele was always bad at doing and with the added anty power dmg from hot it has made ele into a pure healing / support class with out any of the major boons.
Necro has dmg that is unblockable and is able to do condi dmg even if they are not build for it. Ontop of being able to strip boons. Ele is in very bad shape as things stand. Its not viable in any format other then the max bunker healing builds that most classes can pull off. The lack of aoe stab reiscese or even quickness realty kills the class for support and things like protection and fury even might being on many classes comply stops any real boon important from an support ele. All ele has is auras and healing that comes from thoughts aruas. The lack of unblockable dmg or even “real condi dmg” with major lacks in the utility condis such as poison and anty boon effects comply stops the class from being any thing but an meh dmg out put class. When you add in the fact that its the lowest hp / armor class when it wants to do power dmg the risk reward is simply not worth it.
There are profound problems with the ele class and anet dose not want to fix it at best they want to simply make fun of it. Anet is losing a lot of its older workers and it seems the new ppl do not want to have ele as a viable class outside of the “o crap we forgot about quickness and metor” where quickness was dropping the dps dmg of metor because of the icd and they had to do a hot fix showing that they have no real testing going on. This is a sad state of the game and ele is the major example of the decaying game.

Main : Jski Imaginary ELE (Necromancer)
Guild : OBEY (The Legacy) I call it Obay , TLC (WvW) , UNIV (other)
Server : FA

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Posted by: Malchior.5732

Malchior.5732

My post wasn’t about current Ele, it was about when Diamond Skin was nerfed. I don’t really care about pvp or wvw anymore.

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Posted by: Jski.6180

Jski.6180

My post wasn’t about current Ele, it was about when Diamond Skin was nerfed. I don’t really care about pvp or wvw anymore.

Not like diamond skin was realty used for pve… before or after the update to it.
It was a bit too on and off of a tool the old version but then they added in a boon like resistances kind of killing the balancing ideal behind chasing diamond skin in the first places so… i am not sure if there a point to be made.
The new version is a bit too uncontrollable to be a true GM chose. Its weaker then the Master? level that necro gets for getting 1 condi per sec when in death shroud. If you want to get down to it having a every time your hit is counter to the ideal of gw2 where your tasked to dodge effects more then face tank.

Main : Jski Imaginary ELE (Necromancer)
Guild : OBEY (The Legacy) I call it Obay , TLC (WvW) , UNIV (other)
Server : FA

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Posted by: soulknight.9620

soulknight.9620

Agreed, ele is in an awfull spot right now. Majority of people doesnt understand that in PVE ele HAD to have more dmg than other profession due to ele lack of hp/def and due to needing to go full zerk gear and full ham traits. Its a simple question of tradeoffs and balance between dmg and defences.
At the moment PVE vise ele has same dmg as guardian, thief, ranger etc. But ele has lowest defences/hp (and please dont give me that bs about perfect rotations on a large golem with unrealistic buffs).
In SPVP (yeah like we actually have structured pvp now xD) ele has only one build its bunker auramancer. If you play something else its a one shot paper frag.
I dont play much of WvW but as far as my guildies say its not that good outside of blobs.
Many say “just pick another class and hf”, yeah, but well i dont like any other class in gw2 outside of ele. So it seems i will have to take a long brake from gw2 untill they get something right with ele balance.
Ive said it before and i will repeat myself, i do not think that ele is in a good spot right now, and if devs do think that ele is fine, please prove it. Dev team is competent enough to make a video of designer, who actually designed ele that way, and show us how ele is meant to be played the right way for being usefull in spvp, wvw, pve.

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Posted by: Keadron.9570

Keadron.9570

Has anyone said DS shouldn’t be toned down no, but making it both on hit and icd was too much.

Actually, a lot of Ele mains at the time did say it didn’t need to be toned down. They said it was perfectly fine that condi builds couldn’t touch them at all.
I vaguely remember a few individuals actually wanted it buffed so other builds could make better use of it, but I might be wrong.

Everyone knew it should be toned down, though I honestly didn’t want it changed for fear of what they would do to it. When they first previewed it it had the icd which was fine, then when the update went live it had been turned into an on hit trait. why anyone would think that was a good idea is beyond me.

It made water almost mandantory which hurt all offensive builds. Ele has a tiny hp pool making condi especially deadly.

Didn’t they run water anyway? I saw only a handful of DS “offensive” builds.
Also, I think a single trait destroying one of Ele’s biggest counters, which was prone to getting bogged down by groups due to very little mobility and few active defenses at the time, is kinda wrong.

Actually that was a choice of preference. Earth for damage reduction or water for healing. Then air or fire and tempest. Water wasn’t mandantory. DS didn’t destroy ele counter. It only worked when above 90% health. Anyone who ran up and dumped condi right off the bat deserved to die. I also ran Necro part of the time (still do) and killed quite a few ele just from knowing when to bomb and when not. Then as a Necro I tended to stick to team fights back then

Then I suppose we aren’t necros who can be tanky without sacrificing dps and dish out heals at the same time so that makes it ok right?

I don’t play pvp anymore, but at the time when Diamond Skin got changed, being a Necro with high damage was the only reason to play it. If you got caught out of position all you had was Flesh Wurm to save you IF you pre-cast it in a good spot.
It’s also a bit funny to say that considering that Ele was pretty tanky and could out-sustain pretty much anything when Celestial amulet was the most popular thing to use. It was so bad that people were running 3+ Eles in tournaments.

I think you missed my point as I was referring to Current state not past. Actually the whole post was about the nerfs effect on current Ele. Such as when DS was changed was also when the removal of defensive amulets started, like cele, and more boon corruption was added. Defensive amulets are gone and water is still mandantory

Just out of curiosity why were you running flesh worm at that time? Reaper was out then…. if I recall correctly I was running a hybrid mm reaper build with condi, increased def, and lifesteal at that time. Unless you were really ganked there was no reason to run. Reaper was insane at that time 1v1 1v2 1v3

(edited by Keadron.9570)

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Posted by: Malchior.5732

Malchior.5732

Has anyone said DS shouldn’t be toned down no, but making it both on hit and icd was too much.

Actually, a lot of Ele mains at the time did say it didn’t need to be toned down. They said it was perfectly fine that condi builds couldn’t touch them at all.
I vaguely remember a few individuals actually wanted it buffed so other builds could make better use of it, but I might be wrong.

Everyone knew it should be toned down, though I honestly didn’t want it changed for fear of what they would do to it. When they first previewed it it had the icd which was fine, then when the update went live it had been turned into an on hit trait. why anyone would think that was a good idea is beyond me.

It made water almost mandantory which hurt all offensive builds. Ele has a tiny hp pool making condi especially deadly.

Didn’t they run water anyway? I saw only a handful of DS “offensive” builds.
Also, I think a single trait destroying one of Ele’s biggest counters, which was prone to getting bogged down by groups due to very little mobility and few active defenses at the time, is kinda wrong.

Actually that was a choice of preference. Earth for damage reduction or water for healing. Then air or fire and tempest. Water wasn’t mandantory. DS didn’t destroy ele counter. It only worked when above 90% health. Anyone who ran up and dumped condi right off the bat deserved to die. I also ran Necro part of the time (still do) and killed quite a few ele just from knowing when to bomb and when not. Then as a Necro I tended to stick to team fights back then

Then I suppose we aren’t necros who can be tanky without sacrificing dps and dish out heals at the same time so that makes it ok right?

I don’t play pvp anymore, but at the time when Diamond Skin got changed, being a Necro with high damage was the only reason to play it. If you got caught out of position all you had was Flesh Wurm to save you IF you pre-cast it in a good spot.
It’s also a bit funny to say that considering that Ele was pretty tanky and could out-sustain pretty much anything when Celestial amulet was the most popular thing to use. It was so bad that people were running 3+ Eles in tournaments.

I think you missed my point as I was referring to Current state not past. Actually the whole post was about the nerfs effect on current Ele. Such as when DS was changed was also when the removal of defensive amulets started, like cele, and more boon corruption was added. Defensive amulets are gone and water is still mandantory

Just out of curiosity why were you running flesh worm at that time? Reaper was out then…. if I recall correctly I was running a hybrid mm reaper build with condi, increased def, and lifesteal at that time. Unless you were really ganked there was no reason to run. Reaper was insane at that time 1v1 1v2 1v3

The point was to explain the perspective of the nerfs. Reaper did not exist at the time. Diamond Skin was added in like 2013 and the specialization update was months before HoT.

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Posted by: Keadron.9570

Keadron.9570

Has anyone said DS shouldn’t be toned down no, but making it both on hit and icd was too much.

Actually, a lot of Ele mains at the time did say it didn’t need to be toned down. They said it was perfectly fine that condi builds couldn’t touch them at all.
I vaguely remember a few individuals actually wanted it buffed so other builds could make better use of it, but I might be wrong.

Everyone knew it should be toned down, though I honestly didn’t want it changed for fear of what they would do to it. When they first previewed it it had the icd which was fine, then when the update went live it had been turned into an on hit trait. why anyone would think that was a good idea is beyond me.

It made water almost mandantory which hurt all offensive builds. Ele has a tiny hp pool making condi especially deadly.

Didn’t they run water anyway? I saw only a handful of DS “offensive” builds.
Also, I think a single trait destroying one of Ele’s biggest counters, which was prone to getting bogged down by groups due to very little mobility and few active defenses at the time, is kinda wrong.

Actually that was a choice of preference. Earth for damage reduction or water for healing. Then air or fire and tempest. Water wasn’t mandantory. DS didn’t destroy ele counter. It only worked when above 90% health. Anyone who ran up and dumped condi right off the bat deserved to die. I also ran Necro part of the time (still do) and killed quite a few ele just from knowing when to bomb and when not. Then as a Necro I tended to stick to team fights back then

Then I suppose we aren’t necros who can be tanky without sacrificing dps and dish out heals at the same time so that makes it ok right?

I don’t play pvp anymore, but at the time when Diamond Skin got changed, being a Necro with high damage was the only reason to play it. If you got caught out of position all you had was Flesh Wurm to save you IF you pre-cast it in a good spot.
It’s also a bit funny to say that considering that Ele was pretty tanky and could out-sustain pretty much anything when Celestial amulet was the most popular thing to use. It was so bad that people were running 3+ Eles in tournaments.

I think you missed my point as I was referring to Current state not past. Actually the whole post was about the nerfs effect on current Ele. Such as when DS was changed was also when the removal of defensive amulets started, like cele, and more boon corruption was added. Defensive amulets are gone and water is still mandantory

Just out of curiosity why were you running flesh worm at that time? Reaper was out then…. if I recall correctly I was running a hybrid mm reaper build with condi, increased def, and lifesteal at that time. Unless you were really ganked there was no reason to run. Reaper was insane at that time 1v1 1v2 1v3

The point was to explain the perspective of the nerfs. Reaper did not exist at the time. Diamond Skin was added in like 2013 and the specialization update was months before HoT.

Diamond skin was changed January 26 2016. Reaper was available. Your post said at the time diamond skin got changed so assumed that was when you meant

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Posted by: Malchior.5732

Malchior.5732

Diamond skin was changed January 26 2016. Reaper was available. Your post said at the time diamond skin got changed so assumed that was when you meant

Jan. 26 was the nerf.
The original change I meant was the specialization update, which allowed Eles to take Diamond Skin without sacrificing too much. My bad for not specifying.

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Posted by: Keadron.9570

Keadron.9570

Diamond skin was changed January 26 2016. Reaper was available. Your post said at the time diamond skin got changed so assumed that was when you meant

Jan. 26 was the nerf.
The original change I meant was the specialization update, which allowed Eles to take Diamond Skin without sacrificing too much. My bad for not specifying.

Thank you for the clarification

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Posted by: Jski.6180

Jski.6180

Diamond skin was changed January 26 2016. Reaper was available. Your post said at the time diamond skin got changed so assumed that was when you meant

Jan. 26 was the nerf.
The original change I meant was the specialization update, which allowed Eles to take Diamond Skin without sacrificing too much. My bad for not specifying.

Thank you for the clarification

Still a lot of nothing because the mind set behind diamond skin nerf was blow out of the window with the adding of resistances as a boon. A 100% reduction is not good for the game and to have one counter effect to a 100% reduction (boon strip) is not a real counter at all. At least the old diamond skin was an hp% effect that was easy to brake.

Things like this is what has plagued ele as a class a nerf to the class such as duration dmg or even effect only to have is simply added to other classes nearly at the same time. Ele is the jack of all trades class in balancing but it cant do every thing any more because all the other classes where effectively given the ele skills by other means. Its like Anet is trying to comply destroy the ele class for another class to be added or to simply get the game back to 8 classes.

Main : Jski Imaginary ELE (Necromancer)
Guild : OBEY (The Legacy) I call it Obay , TLC (WvW) , UNIV (other)
Server : FA

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Posted by: Eypheha.5831

Eypheha.5831

While many of our aspects that allowed us to live in a fight and deal out damage were nerfed big time, the thief got to be 100% invisible, huge damage increases and the ability to escape without any possibility of ever being caught except by perhaps 5 or 6:1 players chasing their kitten off for ten minutes. Even then, it was unlikely if the thief just left rather than toy with the group. Am I bitter? Yeah…It seems Anet has a favorite and it ain’t Ele.

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Posted by: Crinn.7864

Crinn.7864

Still a lot of nothing because the mind set behind diamond skin nerf was blow out of the window with the adding of resistances as a boon. A 100% reduction is not good for the game and to have one counter effect to a 100% reduction (boon strip) is not a real counter at all. At least the old diamond skin was an hp% effect that was easy to brake.

Things like this is what has plagued ele as a class a nerf to the class such as duration dmg or even effect only to have is simply added to other classes nearly at the same time. Ele is the jack of all trades class in balancing but it cant do every thing any more because all the other classes where effectively given the ele skills by other means. Its like Anet is trying to comply destroy the ele class for another class to be added or to simply get the game back to 8 classes.

Context is everything. No bunker class has resistance access. Moreover the resistence effect is weaker than Diamond Skin. Resistance grants immunity to the effects of condis, but not their application. Diamond Skin completely prevented the application of any condi.

Diamond Skin was OP because breaking the 90% threshold on a bunker tempest that has perma 40% prot, along with Auras and large amounts of healing was impossible for any condi build. Power builds struggled killing it as well, and the only way to get rid of a bunker tempest in a reasonable amount of time was to 3v1 it.

Sanity is for the weak minded.
YouTube

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Posted by: Jski.6180

Jski.6180

Still a lot of nothing because the mind set behind diamond skin nerf was blow out of the window with the adding of resistances as a boon. A 100% reduction is not good for the game and to have one counter effect to a 100% reduction (boon strip) is not a real counter at all. At least the old diamond skin was an hp% effect that was easy to brake.

Things like this is what has plagued ele as a class a nerf to the class such as duration dmg or even effect only to have is simply added to other classes nearly at the same time. Ele is the jack of all trades class in balancing but it cant do every thing any more because all the other classes where effectively given the ele skills by other means. Its like Anet is trying to comply destroy the ele class for another class to be added or to simply get the game back to 8 classes.

Context is everything. No bunker class has resistance access. Moreover the resistence effect is weaker than Diamond Skin. Resistance grants immunity to the effects of condis, but not their application. Diamond Skin completely prevented the application of any condi.

Diamond Skin was OP because breaking the 90% threshold on a bunker tempest that has perma 40% prot, along with Auras and large amounts of healing was impossible for any condi build. Power builds struggled killing it as well, and the only way to get rid of a bunker tempest in a reasonable amount of time was to 3v1 it.

Um… first all classes can be build bunker much like they can all be build dmg there is no bunker class in the game. So classes with resistance just get that added boots. Also war is the very ideal of bunker and they nearly have perma resistance so i have no ideal what your going on about.

90% hp is easier to brake then trying to strip resistance. Every class in the game can do 10% dmg to even the most bunker build eles in a few shots. Only a few classes can have enofe strips to deal with resistance and the boon spam in this game.

Main : Jski Imaginary ELE (Necromancer)
Guild : OBEY (The Legacy) I call it Obay , TLC (WvW) , UNIV (other)
Server : FA

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Posted by: Xillllix.3485

Xillllix.3485

You forgot the nerfs to the fire trait lines:

P “Ele blast too much might when using a celestial amulet”
A1: Remove cantrip-might from fire trait line
A2: nerf might globally

Then Anet removes celestial amulet and forget to give might back to the ele.

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Posted by: Nitrosiili.5628

Nitrosiili.5628

Wow just looked at berserkers elite skill and thought that when ele will get a over 1000 dmg skill with a 20 sec cooldown. Oh i forgot that all we get is nerf after another nerf. Tried to duel this warrior (WvW) and couldnt get him under 50% health, because all my skills hitted him like a wet noodle. I’m running the d/d ele.