Guild Wars 2

mantras
dual wielding attunement
only 2 attunement not 4
sword man hand

total of 38 new weapons skills :
1 and 2 from sword per attunement = 8
3 new dual attunement skils from F/W F/A F/E W/A W/E A/E per man and 2hand weapon – 6 x sword, scepter, staff, dagger, trifdent = 30

and 5 mantras that is 43 new skills in total

all what I could get from leaks
discuss

Sounds way overcomplicated, so I won’t even say “nice try”.

Feanor, there is a screenshot of the skillbar in action on Reddit somewhere.

I think using only 2 attunements is fine. Most of the rotations only involve 2 currently anyway. You would use the others in special situations, usually for CC/emergency healing. I guess in the expansion, you would just forgo those options.

I want solid proof ele is getting sword so I can buy bolt. I want to buy it so bad, but the leak today excluded ele..

Mkay. Sounds interesting. Though I’m genuinely surprised they went to such lengths with a class that already has more skills than average.

Yeah I still don’t fully understand. You have 2 attunements but one weapon, and the 3rd skill is a mix of the two. Can you switch attunements for each half? Like if I had D/F I could pick earth and fire, and pick earth/earth, fire/fire, earth/fire or fire/earth?

IF this is true, I currently imagine the system to work like this:

1. you chose “Hybrid-Mage” specialty trait line + two other lines (except Arcana, which might be the “Elementalist” specialty by then?)
2. the two other lines lock your usable elements, e.g. if you chose Air + Water (looks like that in the screen shot)
3. The #3 skills (but why that one?) changes to a hybrid spell of the two elements

Since you only have 2 attunements, the attunement cooldown could be removed?
The Mantras could determine the slot of the hybrid spell?
A new F5 skill could determine the hybrid spell?

If only #3 is going to be a hybrid spell, we would need new spells for 5 weapons (Staff, Scepter, Dagger, Trident + Sword) and 6 trait hybrids (F/W – F/A – F/E – W/E – W/A – A/E), which is still 30 new skills (+ 8 normal sword skills).

If we could chose more hybrid slots, that would be 30 skills for each new skill – which sounds like way too much work for one profession.

What also could be interesting is the question whether the two bars above the weapon skills are just indicators or actual depleting bars of “energy”.

Could be interresting, as it is something that has been suggested many times, including me. But I can’t really imagine Anet designing 30+ new skills for the sake of eles… we’ll see anyway.

How do you deduce that there will only be 2 attunements? I saw the dual attunement stuff, but couldn’t it be combined on the fly, instead of having to choose what combinations you make beforehand? Maybe you saw some more stuff than me.

I’m pretty hyped for mantras, if that’s what these charge based utilities will be called. I had mantras for my draft elite spec as well.

I am kind of shocked by all of this (and how quoting something was enofe to get hit lol) i just hope its not stronger then the core ele class or at least buff the core ele class to some level. (Air 2 on staff still is a realty bad skill).

First of all, brace yourselves for disappointment – from what I seen in the pics, the elementalist was the only one that didn’t have the trait/skills hero point circle up so that leads me to think that it is not ready yet and needs much more development than the others.

Remember the Tempest that had a lot less work to be done – by not making such a huge mess with the class (mix of elements) and a whole bunch of skills – and the tempest is hands down the most rush and poorly done elite spec of them all (both thematically and mechanically, Heck not even the names make a kitten sense with the spirit of the class – stormcaller).

So yeah, won’t be holding my breath and seriously hope people look at it objectively rather than blinded as first look.

And a few big problems – eles have gigantic cool downs for their skills. If we have less skills, meaning 2 attunements, how will they avoid us sitting using auto attacks? Weapon swap? Major cool down reductions or sword becomes mandatory

Also – if we have both elements in play, how will the cool down traits work? Double effect? Combined effect? And what about the “X” effect when in Y attunement? Do glyphs and arcane traits just get worse if we pick this spec? If we choose to take water but pick “as legends” fire and air do we just lose minor traits of water?

Again, if we get reduced cool down on attune swap between the only 2 we have, what about the on swap traits we have? Added internal cooldown? We can trigger more me frequently and get much more heals and might?

This is starting to feel once again restrictive to the class – possibly ANET decision to not make us so much “jack of all trades” thus nerf baseline so the elite spec is balanced.

Last but not least, how will they compensate with mantras the baseline lack of survivability of the class and also our dependency on water trait line (will that limit us to always having to mix with water other elements to take advantage of the much needed survival traits)? And if they add survival stuff to the traitline how will we not go back to full bunker class again (water + new trait line)?

I don’t know – the path they are going seems hugely complex for the class and will probably end up breaking a lot of the baseline to make the elite shiny… and when the number tweeks creep in * flashbacks of meteor and air overload nerfs *

Most likely if this goes live, the mixed attunment will be the result of your previous attunment and your actual attunment. Which would be pretty logical. The resulting skill beng tied to the weapon is kinda disappointing and bothering.

Being tied to 2 attunments out of 4 would just kill the class which is not designed for that.

If we could chose more hybrid slots, that would be 30 skills for each new skill – which sounds like way too much work for one profession

Based on the leaked picture there would be :
- 8 standard skills for the new weapon (If we assume that this is sword)
- 6 mixed skills for the new weapon
- 18 new mixed skills for the old weapons
- 6 mantra
= 38 new skills

Basically it is what i also suggested but never expected the effort would be done.
I hope that sword isn´t powercreep. Generally i hope that for all classes.

What i fear is that mantras and sword is so powerful that it compensates for the higher CD´s on only 2 elements and in anny PvP environement water will be mandatory …
As result this might lower the skill flor on ele and leave us with 1-2 “viable” pvp/WvW specs.

“dual wielding attunement
only 2 attunement not 4”

So what you’re trying to say is we have two attunements active simultaneously? Two “Main” attunements which are basically like “weapon 1” and “weapon 2” which can then be mixed with another attunement?

That sounds pretty interesting, sounds like a lot of of APM required.

it will definitly change ele gameplay, but it might move more to be like other classes so not entirely new.

Wtf, I quoted the OP in a reply and got an infraction point. Cmon anet.

On the topic tho, if we choose our attunements, I have great fear that it will kill usage of current weapons, as you need all 4 attunements for them to work. Not to mention the plethora of Traits connected to all the different attunements.

Mixing them on the fly is a different story.

this is one point why i said i fear sword powercreep. The mechanic itself and never the sword skills have to carry all weapon sets ….

This new elite spec is a big disappointment for me.
1st, If they use this dual attunement they should remake all the weapon skills that elementalist have (which I don’t think they will), but the effects of this will be more unbalanced weapon skills
2nd, What will happen with the glyphs? Glyph of elementals, glyph of elemental power, glyph of renewal, for example glyph of elemental power in fire/water attunement it will give both condi or just one, if just one in this case there is no point to use dual attunement if just one will be dominant.
3rd, Mantras if they make it similar like mesmer have like channel /cast? I don’t think it will be useful in most of the game like raid/WvW/PvP. So in my opinion I see this new elite spec as a step back from tempest or core elementalist.

I’m not worried about it being a bad spec, they have to make it good as an incentive to buy the next expac. All elite specs thus far have been the meta for most, if not all, game modes. I do hope that it actually gives us a different style of play though. I feel like core ele and tempest both perform best as team support, and while that is nice, it’d be cool to have a different way of playing. Hopefully that’s what this nest elite spec does – takes away some of our tools to make our remaining ones stronger.

So will traits doable effect things say you have -20% cdr to fire skills and -20% cdr to earth and your in earth/fire will you have -40%? Also will you get say stone hart going all the time say earth fire and Pyromancer’s Puissance all the time. I do not know this sounds like its going to be crazy op or its going to need a lot of locks on what atument doable stack can do. (How are these ppl game devs. i though you had to make good game making decisions to do this job?)

Images if your water earth stone hart and Soothing Power (i know its not the best but we are talking max tank here) how do you kill that? Or worst yet a fresh air with any type of on swap effect say air water endless heals and clears. There a LOT that can go wrong here.

If Anet hasn’t found any name yet, I’d suggest Sorcerer: “your thirst for knowledge and power, and your deep understanding of the alchemy of the elements has allowed you to develop new powerful spells for the greater fights that have to come”

Jski.6180:

So will traits doable effect things say you have -20% cdr to fire skills and -20% cdr to earth and your in earth/fire will you have -40%? Also will you get say stone hart going all the time say earth fire and Pyromancer’s Puissance all the time. I do not know this sounds like its going to be crazy op or its going to need a lot of locks on what atument doable stack can do. (How are these ppl game devs. i though you had to make good game making decisions to do this job?)

Images if your water earth stone hart and Soothing Power (i know its not the best but we are talking max tank here) how do you kill that? Or worst yet a fresh air with any type of on swap effect say air water endless heals and clears. There a LOT that can go wrong here.

They dont need to be actually good developers, just present random crap as “inovation and kewl looking”.
Its a pve game with classes designed only for pve, pvp gameplay will result in whathever devs feels a class needs to be OP for pve.
pvp.. just appens cause a mmo w/o pvp isnt actually a good thing.

As i said before im expecting the most dumbed and worst gameplay i hever found in a online game for the next expantion, if the actual “leeks” are truth or close to it… Anet has proven to be the worse company atm.

Yaaaas this gonna be so cool, and hopefully, for once, we get better balance patches afterwards.

Feanor.2358:

Mkay. Sounds interesting. Though I’m genuinely surprised they went to such lengths with a class that already has more skills than average.

Well, they’re reducing skills if anything. We get a variable skill instead of 10 “free” skills. Situational skills make up the best experiences… I’m still hoping they add more “procs” tied to damage to our beloved class.

From what I’ve heard the ele elite spec has/had very cool things planned but seemed very technically difficult. I think they want to keep to those plans but unfortunately as someone mentioned above it might have required 38 weapon skills alone and that’s not taking into account anything else.

Based on the screenshot it seems a fair bit of the original plan has been revised since I heard about it which is a good thing as it seemed like a bit of a mess to balance and keep track of. From the looks of it they’re going for something more similar to a revenant where your utilities are doubled up on with a pseudo legend swap. There are some similarities between what I heard and what is in this photo but I would be pretty certain that the ele elite spec is still being ironed out. There’s very little point in speculating as we are still 6 months from the XPac and there’s still plenty of time for it to be changed considerably.

No I’m not a beta tester nor am I friends with one in game, I got my info from a friend of a friend but he was bang on the money about the latest episode and where the plot is going. You can check my posting history and tell I was right about who Lazarus was.

Valento.9852:

Well, they’re reducing skills if anything. We get a variable skill instead of 10 “free” skills. Situational skills make up the best experiences… I’m still hoping they add more “procs” tied to damage to our beloved class.

Yup, if we assume as true the “only 2 attunements” that means that the class will lose versatility in its play being reduced from 25 skills to 15 skills.

Not to mention, again, we lose a lot on other related traits and skills (glyphs, arcane traits, and the choice of having some traitlines).

Add to that two points:

- Other main hand or two handed will not be adjusted to compensate for the loss of 10 skills, so big risk of sword becoming mandatory with the spec due to being the only weapon balanced around this.

- ANET’s balance approach of “as long as one works its fine” will likely mean that 1 out of 6 attunement combos will likely be the “meta” whilst the rest fades into oblivion – which could mean that some traitlines will be absolutely neglected (and I feel arcane traitline is one that for sure will be absolutely wasted on the spec).

Wulf.5431:

I’m not worried about it being a bad spec, they have to make it good as an incentive to buy the next expac. All elite specs thus far have been the meta for most, if not all, game modes. I do hope that it actually gives us a different style of play though. I feel like core ele and tempest both perform best as team support, and while that is nice, it’d be cool to have a different way of playing. Hopefully that’s what this nest elite spec does – takes away some of our tools to make our remaining ones stronger.

You should definitely be worried. Elite specs have been meta because of powercreep and not simply because of fun factor (although some are indeed fun).

I absolutely hate Tempest elite spec and have been playing my ele less and less because of my absolute distaste of this rushed and poorly planned disaster, but I know for sure that if I don’t use Tempest I am gimping myself from damage and survivability simply because the terrible traits and abilities of the spec still outclass vanilla ele due to ANET’s willful decision.

I would hate to have another poorly planned mess of an elite spec that is not fun, not thought out and just a rushed piece of **** that only works because “let’s powercrep it so the choice is play it or handicap yourself” and then have ANET call it a success because everyone uses it.

In matters of pvp nothing from leaks get’s me hyped…if i hear that new weapon has some evades, block, blinds then we can talk businesses.

Azel.4786:

Yup, if we assume as true the “only 2 attunements” that means that the class will lose versatility in its play being reduced from 25 skills to 15 skills.

Not to mention, again, we lose a lot on other related traits and skills (glyphs, arcane traits, and the choice of having some traitlines).

I find it unlikely, mostly because of traits. Giving the player an ability to render her active traits effectively useless seems like a pretty poor design. On top of that, it doesn’t really tie in with the lore or the class.

The other possible read – you get some effect based on your current and your previous attunement – seems way more sensible and interesting.

Feanor.2358:

I find it unlikely, mostly because of traits. Giving the player an ability to render her active traits effectively useless seems like a pretty poor design. On top of that, it doesn’t really tie in with the lore or the class.

The other possible read – you get some effect based on your current and your previous attunement – seems way more sensible and interesting.

For sure that is more interesting but the power creep that would result is astonishing. Just a couple of point:

Imagine you use the arcane trait that gives you X condition on arcane skill, now you double the condi?

What about the traits “while attuned to X you gain Y stat”, now double the effect?

And again glyphs, would you trigger both attunements?

Or they might just give back the previous arcane minor trait that gave lingering elements and say it is “new and exciting”. That wouldn’t be surprising

Azel.4786:

Feanor.2358:

I find it unlikely, mostly because of traits. Giving the player an ability to render her active traits effectively useless seems like a pretty poor design. On top of that, it doesn’t really tie in with the lore or the class.

The other possible read – you get some effect based on your current and your previous attunement – seems way more sensible and interesting.

For sure that is more interesting but the power creep that would result is astonishing. Just a couple of point:

Imagine you use the arcane trait that gives you X condition on arcane skill, now you double the condi?

What about the traits “while attuned to X you gain Y stat”, now double the effect?

And again glyphs, would you trigger both attunements?

Or they might just give back the previous arcane minor trait that gave lingering elements and say it is “new and exciting”. That wouldn’t be surprising

Not necessarily. All existing effects can simply trigger for your most recent (let’s call it “primary”) attunement. The mechanic of the new spec would be the only thing referring to you previous attunement and affect/replace certain skills based on the combination of the two.

Feanor.2358:

Not necessarily. All existing effects can simply trigger for your most recent (let’s call it “primary”) attunement. The mechanic of the new spec would be the only thing referring to you previous attunement and affect/replace certain skills based on the combination of the two.

Sure, mechanically and balance wise that is the easier approach – only the mechanic of the spec (supposedly the change to the skill 3) is the “mix of elements”

But thematically wise you end up with a spec that is able to mix elements that even if is specialized in fire and water and in combining elements, is simply only capable of a restrict combination and incapable of combining the faster casting (CD reduction) to its mixed element spell or even combining glyphs or utilizing the effects of its mastered elements (while in Y element gain X).

If it ends up like that it would just feel – thematically – has a very amateurish elementalist and not as a specialist.

Azel.4786:

Feanor.2358:

Not necessarily. All existing effects can simply trigger for your most recent (let’s call it “primary”) attunement. The mechanic of the new spec would be the only thing referring to you previous attunement and affect/replace certain skills based on the combination of the two.

Sure, mechanically and balance wise that is the easier approach – only the mechanic of the spec (supposedly the change to the skill 3) is the “mix of elements”

But thematically wise you end up with a spec that is able to mix elements that even if is specialized in fire and water and in combining elements, is simply only capable of a restrict combination and incapable of combining the faster casting (CD reduction) to its mixed element spell or even combining glyphs or utilizing the effects of its mastered elements (while in Y element gain X).

If it ends up like that it would just feel – thematically – has a very amateurish elementalist and not as a specialist.

This will not make it easier to balance out ele at all if any thing its going to pomp more major nerf to the core class as in cdr traits that can (i guess) doable up on duel atuments. The logic would be well lets cut it dose to -15% from the 20% we have now so the doable effect is only -30% not the massive -40%. Or the only effect when in that atument will need to be changed some how to not be on most of the time like stone hart where you cant be crit when in earth. This may end up becoming a after swaping to earth you get this effect for a few sec or a hp % effect.

I don’t see this working at all and to make it work your going to need to nerf the core ele more.

This is not the path to fix ele this is the path to just sell a new shinny thing to players to the point of making the class unplayable with out it.

I find it very unlikely for them to choose an approach where you can get two procs of different elements at once. It would be a nightmare to balance and it would make the new spec mandatory.

Feanor.2358:

I find it very unlikely for them to choose an approach where you can get two procs of different elements at once. It would be a nightmare to balance and it would make the new spec mandatory.

I didn’t really want to say anything, but you said half of what i wanted to say. From what Ive seen, from the leaks on reddit. Ele spec isn’t finished, those probably are placeholders, and some missing skills they didn;t get to yet.

I find it fun that people are whining about a leak, that’s not finished, maybe not even accurate/real, or based off parts of data and filled in, or whatever – a lot will happen between now and when released…

Its fun to speculate and guess yeah, or go off data now but to get all worked up “this will ruin ele” etc. NOW is stupid. Just relax lol.

EriskRedLemur.7153:

I find it fun that people are whining about a leak, that’s not finished, maybe not even accurate/real, or based off parts of data and filled in, or whatever – a lot will happen between now and when released…

Its fun to speculate and guess yeah, or go off data now but to get all worked up “this will ruin ele” etc. NOW is stupid. Just relax lol.

The same was said of tempest and look how well that turned out for us. Sorry but i have zero faith in anet’s balance, or rather imbalance team at all at this point. Expect to be disappointed then still be surprised when they manage to go even lower than your already low expectations.

If this is true I’m liking everything I’m seeing except the mantras. I absolutely hate how mantras work. Maybe it won’t be so bad with ele, but with my mesmer they just felt very boring and annoying to use.

Nikkinella.8254:

EriskRedLemur.7153:

I find it fun that people are whining about a leak, that’s not finished, maybe not even accurate/real, or based off parts of data and filled in, or whatever – a lot will happen between now and when released…

Its fun to speculate and guess yeah, or go off data now but to get all worked up “this will ruin ele” etc. NOW is stupid. Just relax lol.

The same was said of tempest and look how well that turned out for us. Sorry but i have zero faith in anet’s balance, or rather imbalance team at all at this point. Expect to be disappointed then still be surprised when they manage to go even lower than your already low expectations.

Yup, it is good that there are still people who remember.

Tempest elite spec was exactly the same film. First the leaks and people were worried while there were some saying “relax trust ANET they will make it awesome”.

Then the reveal comes, no teaser, a boring and mechanically and thematically terrible elite spec with people showing the many mistakes and some continue the illusion that everything was going to be fine.

Look at Tempest today and it is mandatory for a single reason – blatant and intentional powercreep – but largely considered as a rushed and failed elite spec.

So yeah, we don’t have a “past history” to put faith in ANET that they will do a good job with this new one – and ANET definitely needs to keep in mind that the second expansion is “do or die” as the game will likely not survive another HoT failure.

while this elite can be great Azel said it. Most don´t trust Anet to get it worked out well :-/.
HoT did hit diversity hard that another blow might leave GW2 on the floor. Powercreep is bad for long term motivation/exitement, only varity and new content (this is obviosed focused but doesn´t exite long) can hold people. To keep the playerbase it´s always huge diversity which is balaced as a system (not loking at spec A v.s. spec b). If i can play a unique character and be competative with it, then it will be hard for me to leave that back… If all is the same and/or my way to play is always at the end of the food chain i will leave. An no new contet with pretty pictures can change this. It´s feelings.

Nikkinella.8254:

The same was said of tempest and look how well that turned out for us.

Looking… uhm… pretty well, actually. The core mechanic is great. The traits are all over the place, in my opinion to make it usable in PvP. But even as it is, even after the number of nerfs to this and that, the line is still pretty great for PvE.

I wouldn’t say tempest is a disaster. To sum up, its problems are:

-Powercreep. Well, every single spec has got the same issue at some point except scrapper in pve and druid because it’s so different from base ranger. So it’s not a tempest-only thing. Is it bad? Sure. Is it a reason to call tempest a disaster? No, unless we recognise that every spec has the same problem.

-Too similar to base elementalist. But on the other hand, look at the rangers forum. Everyone complains about druid because they didn’t want a spec so different from base ranger, that had support but just very passive thanks to spirits. Its mechanic isn’t related to pets at all. I’ve always felt that specs should differentiate a lot one from another, but it seems it’s just an opinion.

-Overloads don’t work as a proper new mechanic. That’s true, but again, it’s not a problem that tempests suffer alone. Daredevil introduced a lot of “on evade” traits, but visually its new mechanic is just evading. Scrapper doesn’t have a proper new mechanic, just a reviving/downing helper.

I’d say is not a tempest issue, but an Arenanet-handling-specs issue. In the pve side of things, i wouldn’t complain too much (not i’m not saying you shouldn’t complain at all) about an spec that has its uses in raid terms. Scrapper, Reaper and Herald have it worse by far.

voidvector.2780:

Feanor, there is a screenshot of the skillbar in action on Reddit somewhere.

Can someone post the screenshot here? I’ve seen the leak pictures but none belonging to ele.

Tempest changed ele from my most played pvp class to one of the least. They can’t do too much worse with the new one unless they make it both as unfun as tempest and so grossly overpowered I can’t just ignore it’s existence.

I’m honestly not that excited for sword, that weapon is so overdone it’s basically the staff of main hands. On the bright side, Bolt is cool so it’s for that going for it.

Feanor.2358:

I find it very unlikely for them to choose an approach where you can get two procs of different elements at once. It would be a nightmare to balance and it would make the new spec mandatory.

How else can you do duel elements then? Unless it was a couple lie (and it dose not seem like it is one) i do not understand how they will make it work with the old trait lines. I guess they could make witch ever is the first element to take the line so fire earth vs earth fire the first one fire line will take over the 2ed earth will. The thing is this cuts lines comply out from builds if most ele need to run water then you will need to run water / x killing a full element out for a more pure support. Unless the new line has a means of condi clear but if it dose then it may be too much clear on the ele class.

Do you see the problem here the lack of updating the core class of ele is causing a lot of problems for the elites and will keep causing problems if they do not fix the core classes first. Its the building on a bad foundation argument going on and Anet is trying to build on a non foundation for a lot of classes.

I think the leaked ele image got taken down from Imgur, but those utilities didn’t look anything like mantras to me. Can someone pm me the image?

Edited because of a brain fart.

I know a lot of ppl hated Warhorn… But I will miss it and I wish weapons weren’t dependent of the spec.

Now, for the post, I welcome everything, I would actually prefer guns, but any blade is welcome too.

Jhoul.6923:

I know a lot of ppl hated Warhorn… But I will mish weapons weren’t dependent of the spec.

Now, for the post I welcome everything, I would actually prefer guns, but any blade is welcome too.

I actually prefer guns too, but I’ll wait to see how sword is like

Fashion Mage.3712:

I think the leaked ele image got taken down from Imgur, but those utilities didn’t look anything like mantras to me. Can someone pm me the image?

They had charges (2) which makes Mantras pretty likely.

I wished Mantras had 3 charges by default and ANet reworked Harmonious Mantras.

Xaylin.1860:

They had charges (2) which makes Mantras pretty likely.

I wished Mantras had 3 charges by default and ANet reworked Harmonious Mantras.

I found the image again. They appear to have charges of some sort (or the number could mean something else), but as far as I know, mantras don’t show the number of their charges on their skill icons. Mantras show how many charges they have on a buff tooltip, so I’m pretty sure those aren’t mantras unless there’s a way to change how mantra charges are displayed.