Guild Wars 2

hi all
first of all, i’m not english, so forgive me if i say something wrong ^^’

i was just wondering if cleric set could be better than p/t/v for wvw..

try to explain better:

i usually do tpvp, and used unfortunately the classic 0/10/0/30/30 build..with some variations cause i find it boring, so often use staff and suited my traits and utility,
anyway, i found myself more hard to kill when i used the cleric instead of soldier..even with recent nerf of EA, my selfhealing it’s still high (when i used cleric), and that help me a lot in close quarter fight..

but i don’t know if in wvw could be the same…
i usually run in p/v/t set and armor and cleric jewel (no fractal)

someone have any advice?

thank you in advantage

Tomas

I find Cleric’s helps a ton when I’m facing people that don’t burst insanely high (e.g. Guardians). When I’m against someone with tons of burst, then my low health pool just can’t hold long enough for the healing to matter (e.g. Thief/Warrior).

Also, culling and missing someone’s opener has a huge effect on this. It’s hard to come off the defensive if I’ve completely missed dodging Bola, Bull’s Charge, and half of 100b because the Warrior hadn’t been drawn yet.

mmm true..if i can i use mist form or sometimes arcane shield (rarely i used it), i try also to pop my shocking aura to break the sequence (e.g. i get a bull charge, when i saw the 100b sequence start i use shocking aura) or lightning flash, but it’s a temporary defense, probably 10 sec later if i can’t escape, i gonna to die xD

even in p/v/t/ set..what do u think about knight set?

toughness/precision/power?

Cleric’s better vs. Sustained dps (toughness increases the effective value of healing power against anything but conditions, and elementalists have plenty of condition removal; a cleric set’s healing power outweighs vit in any fight that lasts more than about 20 seconds)
Soldier’s better vs. Burst DPS (More vit to survive the burst; most burst-based builds falter as soon as their rotation’s over)

Knight’s is a trap. If you use a tool like GW2 BuildCraft, you can see that the toughness increase works out to worse defensive stats than Soldier’s, and the damage from power/precision as minors is actually lower than simply Power as a major stat.

Actual Knight’s comparison figures, using full soldier stats vs full Knight stats (except backpiece, which doesn’t have Knight stats) and no upgrades (ascended accessories w/no infusions; no runes, no sigils):
Effective Power (Power adjusted for crit chance and crit damage):
Soldier’s: 2019.6
Knight’s: 1973.03

Effective HP (HP adjusted for damage reduction from additional toughness):
Soldier’s: 25256
Knight’s: 17492

Essentially, in terms of both offense and defense, Knight’s is worse than Soldier’s. The only advantage is a higher crit rate which may be advantageous based on runes/sigils/traits. Having 10 points in air ups it to 2082.2 effective power, which probably isn’t significant enough to cover the defensive stats being about 30% lower. (As an aside, 30 in water brings them a little closer together, to around a 25% difference, because the extra hp is worth more with Knight’s toughness)

So again to clarify – Knight’s is only ever worth using if supported by traits, sigils, food and/or runes. The only significant on-crit effect for elementalists specifically is the one from Arcana that grants vigor, which is a little hard to measure in terms of defensive/offensive value (one extra dodge per 10 seconds, if you use it on cooldown – but different opponents give different value to that dodge)

mmm understand, maybe i will go a mix of soldier and cleric. kitten i’m so confuse XD

anyway, thank you for your explanation, it’s really good

Dingle.2743:

Cleric’s better vs. Sustained dps (toughness increases the effective value of healing power against anything but conditions, and elementalists have plenty of condition removal; a cleric set’s healing power outweighs vit in any fight that lasts more than about 20 seconds)
Soldier’s better vs. Burst DPS (More vit to survive the burst; most burst-based builds falter as soon as their rotation’s over)

Knight’s is a trap. If you use a tool like GW2 BuildCraft, you can see that the toughness increase works out to worse defensive stats than Soldier’s, and the damage from power/precision as minors is actually lower than simply Power as a major stat.

Actual Knight’s comparison figures, using full soldier stats vs full Knight stats (except backpiece, which doesn’t have Knight stats) and no upgrades (ascended accessories w/no infusions; no runes, no sigils):
Effective Power (Power adjusted for crit chance and crit damage):
Soldier’s: 2019.6
Knight’s: 1973.03

Effective HP (HP adjusted for damage reduction from additional toughness):
Soldier’s: 25256
Knight’s: 17492

Essentially, in terms of both offense and defense, Knight’s is worse than Soldier’s. The only advantage is a higher crit rate which may be advantageous based on runes/sigils/traits. Having 10 points in air ups it to 2082.2 effective power, which probably isn’t significant enough to cover the defensive stats being about 30% lower. (As an aside, 30 in water brings them a little closer together, to around a 25% difference, because the extra hp is worth more with Knight’s toughness)

So again to clarify – Knight’s is only ever worth using if supported by traits, sigils, food and/or runes. The only significant on-crit effect for elementalists specifically is the one from Arcana that grants vigor, which is a little hard to measure in terms of defensive/offensive value (one extra dodge per 10 seconds, if you use it on cooldown – but different opponents give different value to that dodge)

Wouldn’t you agree, however, that the profession’s reliance on healing makes toughness more valuable, while having the opposite effect on vitality?

Also, I’m not sure your analysis regarding the offensive power of knight vs soldier is absolute and universal.

Take my build, for instance:
http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/elementalist/?1|8.1k.h2.8.1k.h1h|0.0.0.0.0.0|1n.b1h.1n.b1h.1c.71h.1c.71h.1n.71g.1n.71g|1i.67.211.0.1n.67.1j.67.1i.67.1c.67|0.a1.0.u000.u000|3a.2|e

Replace any knights piece for soldiers and you will clearly see that overall DPS is reduced.

I should’ve been a little more specific when I mentioned that 10 points in air makes knight’s power go up to 2082.2 – that number is higher than soldier’s, as knight’s benefits more from crit damage.

Similarly in your build you’re also running a crit damage boosting food buff on top of air 10 – which leads back into my original point that knight’s needs things like traits, food and runes to be better than soldier’s, and there’s an important question of whether the slight dps advantage is viable compared to the significantly higher defensive capabilities of soldier’s.

As for your mention of the profession’s reliance on healing – yes, this is why I believe cleric’s has better survivability than soldier’s against sustained, non-bursty damage. However, the defensive capabilities of it rely on reacting to damage, and without the vitality on top of the toughness, there are several classes that can potentially kill a cleric-statted elementalist before we get a chance to heal at all

I have full cleric’s armor and some magi accessories. Since we have sooo many burns and bleeds.
I’m trying to go all balanced on my stats (except for healing power, max that out) and use everything our class has to offer.
As a staff healer ele with 1200 healing power (which almost doubles some of your healing skills) you’ll be able to keep your allies health up pretty good in dungeons.

Dingle.2743:

I should’ve been a little more specific when I mentioned that 10 points in air makes knight’s power go up to 2082.2 – that number is higher than soldier’s, as knight’s benefits more from crit damage.

Similarly in your build you’re also running a crit damage boosting food buff on top of air 10 – which leads back into my original point that knight’s needs things like traits, food and runes to be better than soldier’s, and there’s an important question of whether the slight dps advantage is viable compared to the significantly higher defensive capabilities of soldier’s.

As for your mention of the profession’s reliance on healing – yes, this is why I believe cleric’s has better survivability than soldier’s against sustained, non-bursty damage. However, the defensive capabilities of it rely on reacting to damage, and without the vitality on top of the toughness, there are several classes that can potentially kill a cleric-statted elementalist before we get a chance to heal at all

You do raise some interesting points. I tried going full soldier and power/prec food, ended up with more effective power than my original build.

However, it is hard to test accurately without important variables such as fury and might, which an elementalist has (almost) permanent access to.

Which would you say would be the optimal setup for a balanced build?

rolos.7491:

However, it is hard to test accurately without important variables such as fury and might, which an elementalist has (almost) permanent access to.

You can do this manualy though. Formulas used for the calculator are displayed on the faq page, effect of fury is easy enough to count (add .20 for crit chance) and you can find formula for power per might stack and estimate how many stacks you consistently maintain.

A question for anyone who runs full clerics on a d/d elementalist: How much does each cast of a spell heal you for when using Signet of Restoration? Just looking to see how high that heal for each spell cast can get

Graybes.8251:

A question for anyone who runs full clerics on a d/d elementalist: How much does each cast of a spell heal you for when using Signet of Restoration? Just looking to see how high that heal for each spell cast can get

In this case d/d isn’t really significant to the math behind the answer, but here goes:

Signet of Restoration heals 202 + 10% of healing power, per cast

If we go with this build we have 1765 healing power, sigil of life isn’t calculated in so we can get 250 more for a total of 2015; this gives an addition 201.5 hp per cast with the signet. (total 403.5; not sure how GW2 rounds healing)

Going full magi with the %toughness/vit to heal food actually reduces our healing with that setup, but with any other food it’d be a slight buff. (according to gw2buildcraft, the site might be bugged)

rolos.7491:

You do raise some interesting points. I tried going full soldier and power/prec food, ended up with more effective power than my original build.

However, it is hard to test accurately without important variables such as fury and might, which an elementalist has (almost) permanent access to.

Which would you say would be the optimal setup for a balanced build?

I did some playing around in the editor, and with a certain set of sigils, traits and food, the best balance of gear for damage output seems to be Knight’s weapons and armor, with Soldier’s trinkets; however, it drops a fair amount of survivability for a fairly minor damage increase. Here’s the breakdown:

Full Soldier’s, 2639.27 Effective Power, 29446 Effective HP

Full Knight’s 2618.05 Effective Power, 22204 Effective HP

Knight’s Armor, Soldier’s Trinkets 2668.95 Effective Power, 25898 Effective HP

The effectiveness of a given armor set may change depending on food, traits, runes and sigils; with that set I was trying to get a reasonable level of crit rate for the soldier’s set to get some reliability from Arcana VI. The Sigil of Leeching doesn’t have much of an impact on the difference between Soldier and Knight and could be freely swapped with any other sigil if you wanted, and the Sigil of Accuracy is less effective than Perception if kill stacking siils are reliable for you; the boon duration from the runes/traits gives a 3.5 second window for either set to trigger Vigor again, which should hopefully mean 100% uptime even for full soldier’s.

Seeing as with average luck the Vigor effect is more or less permanent even on the soldier’s set with that set-up, I don’t really think the additional 20 power (less than 1% damage) from optimizing for DPS is worth the 3548 (12%) effective HP dropoff.

Dingle.2743:

Graybes.8251:

A question for anyone who runs full clerics on a d/d elementalist: How much does each cast of a spell heal you for when using Signet of Restoration? Just looking to see how high that heal for each spell cast can get

In this case d/d isn’t really significant to the math behind the answer, but here goes:

Signet of Restoration heals 202 + 10% of healing power, per cast

If we go with this build we have 1765 healing power, sigil of life isn’t calculated in so we can get 250 more for a total of 2015; this gives an addition 201.5 hp per cast with the signet. (total 403.5; not sure how GW2 rounds healing)

Going full magi with the %toughness/vit to heal food actually reduces our healing with that setup, but with any other food it’d be a slight buff. (according to gw2buildcraft, the site might be bugged)

rolos.7491:

You do raise some interesting points. I tried going full soldier and power/prec food, ended up with more effective power than my original build.

However, it is hard to test accurately without important variables such as fury and might, which an elementalist has (almost) permanent access to.

Which would you say would be the optimal setup for a balanced build?

I did some playing around in the editor, and with a certain set of sigils, traits and food, the best balance of gear for damage output seems to be Knight’s weapons and armor, with Soldier’s trinkets; however, it drops a fair amount of survivability for a fairly minor damage increase. Here’s the breakdown:

Full Soldier’s, 2639.27 Effective Power, 29446 Effective HP

Full Knight’s 2618.05 Effective Power, 22204 Effective HP

Knight’s Armor, Soldier’s Trinkets 2668.95 Effective Power, 25898 Effective HP

The effectiveness of a given armor set may change depending on food, traits, runes and sigils; with that set I was trying to get a reasonable level of crit rate for the soldier’s set to get some reliability from Arcana VI. The Sigil of Leeching doesn’t have much of an impact on the difference between Soldier and Knight and could be freely swapped with any other sigil if you wanted, and the Sigil of Accuracy is less effective than Perception if kill stacking siils are reliable for you; the boon duration from the runes/traits gives a 3.5 second window for either set to trigger Vigor again, which should hopefully mean 100% uptime even for full soldier’s.

Seeing as with average luck the Vigor effect is more or less permanent even on the soldier’s set with that set-up, I don’t really think the additional 20 power (less than 1% damage) from optimizing for DPS is worth the 3548 (12%) effective HP dropoff.

Thanks for the insight. You gave me something to consider.

Would you think it wise to mix in a couple of cleric pieces with that soldier set?

I was also thinking that, since people are more vulnerable to burst than sustained damage, which is more easily handled and does not require reflexes/reaction time, even if the soldier set shows higher “effective power”, in a practical scenario it would make killing someone harder vs, for example, getting a lucky firegrab crit.

This real world advantage might provide another incentive for burstier builds, vs sustained dps/high defense gear. Also, dead opponents deal no damage.

Any thoughts?

ok, atm i use 5/6 soldiera and 1/6 cleric, trinket all cleric, back soldier with 0/0/10/30/30 i have about :

17k hp
1250 healing power
2650 armor
2850 power

this setup for me it’s exceptional, i can do a semi-decent damage, with a really really high survavibility..

last night i was alone in wvwvw and 5 opponent take about 5 minutes for kill me..and i equipped staff in that moment, maybe if i was d/d i would be survived..