please revamp churning earth
With all the break bars the cripple pulse is actually quite useful.
Welcome to my world – http://emikochan13.wordpress.com
With all the break bars the cripple pulse is actually quite useful.
but a 3 1/4 channel though? a 2 second channel would be much better and it could actually combo with dagger 4 (2 second knockdown)
With all the break bars the cripple pulse is actually quite useful.
If you’re gimping your DPS with this low DPS channel to apply the weakest form of degen to a breakbar…you’re doing it wrong.
Churning Earth simply needs to work like Dragon’s Tooth, create the aoe spell in the ground and erupt after as a fire and forget spell so the ele can do something else in the meantime.
It wouldn’t break it in PvP where it is still easily dodge, but it no longer gimps the elementalist and is actually usable in PvE.
They do need to make churning earth more like dragon’s tooth. It will still have a delay so honestly the counterplay would be to walk out of it. Otherwise the whole skill is just something that will never be used and that is a terrible way to design a skill.
I am finding that with the game having so many interrupts, skills with long channels just become useless (this is mostly from wvw/pvp view) as people learn the animations and how to play. Churning earth with its cast time is a suicide.
Underworld Vabbi 1.5yr
I am finding that with the game having so many interrupts, skills with long channels just become useless (this is mostly from wvw/pvp view) as people learn the animations and how to play. Churning earth with its cast time is a suicide.
By the way you get no stability for using it so it is technically even worse than Overload earth which by itself is just “ok”.
Churning earth needs to be a cast and forget with a delay much like Staff water 2 or Dragon’s tooth. It doesn’t even need a whole bunch of damage though it would be nice. The Crowd control/bleed/blast finisher would be more than enough.
I don’t agree that CE should be a ‘fire and forget’ spell. That takes all the risks out of using it and would probably result in the effects of the spell being nerfed.
The problem is just that since CE currently has such a long channel to get to the actual effect, it means you’re self-rooting for an effect that rarely gets off successfully.
The spell should be revamped to be more like it was in GW2 beta, where iirc you could hold the spell to charge and release it when you wanted. They can make it have reduced damage and bleed stacks depending on the charge time.
Another idea would be to make it so that CE not only pulses cripple during the channel, it also pulses damage like overloads currently do.
I don’t agree that CE should be a ‘fire and forget’ spell. That takes all the risks out of using it and would probably result in the effects of the spell being nerfed.
The problem is just that since CE currently has such a long channel to get to the actual effect, it means you’re self-rooting for an effect that rarely gets off successfully.
The spell should be revamped to be more like it was in GW2 beta, where iirc you could hold the spell to charge and release it when you wanted. They can make it have reduced damage and bleed stacks depending on the charge time.
Another idea would be to make it so that CE not only pulses cripple during the channel, it also pulses damage like overloads currently do.
As it currently stands the effect is nowhere near useful a fire and forget model would be best as what you suggest would likely never see any charge. I would press the button simply for the blast finisher. When you aren’t using the skill the damage is Zero so even if they nerfed the damage slightly I would much rather have the skill be usable compared to something you will never use.
Churning earth needs a damage buff to be in line with Revenant hammer 2 and guardian traps. Or be unblockable. Longer cast time should result in higher rewards.
Be careful what you wish for – luckily nobody uses churning earth right now – otherwise the skill might just get a visual “overhaul” like eruption or fireball…
Abaddon’s Mouth (DE)
For all its risks, why not addan AoE Knockdown/stun effect with it and maybe apply torment depending on how long you channel it? I don’t think it should be a fire and forget spell like what shadowflare said.
1s channel – no torment
2s channel – 1.5s KD/stun + 2 stacks torment
Full channel – 2s KD/stun + 4 stacks torment
I don’t agree that CE should be a ‘fire and forget’ spell. That takes all the risks out of using it and would probably result in the effects of the spell being nerfed.
The problem is just that since CE currently has such a long channel to get to the actual effect, it means you’re self-rooting for an effect that rarely gets off successfully.
The spell should be revamped to be more like it was in GW2 beta, where iirc you could hold the spell to charge and release it when you wanted. They can make it have reduced damage and bleed stacks depending on the charge time.
Another idea would be to make it so that CE not only pulses cripple during the channel, it also pulses damage like overloads currently do.
As it currently stands the effect is nowhere near useful a fire and forget model would be best as what you suggest would likely never see any charge.
As I’ve said, the charge-up effect used to be there, so it’s obviously do-able. Changing it to a “fire and forget” spell like eruption requires changing the spell to be ground target, which is fundamentally different from the current pbaoe spell, I’m pretty sure your idea is less likely to be implemented, if anything.
And also, my 2nd idea of making CE pulse damage is also a relatively small change, yet with some reduction in the total channel time it could relieve the lack of pressure that the current channel introduces.
I would press the button simply for the blast finisher. When you aren’t using the skill the damage is Zero so even if they nerfed the damage slightly I would much rather have the skill be usable compared to something you will never use.
Blast finisher doesn’t happen until you actually finish the channel…so I hope you haven’t been self-interrupting yourself mid-combat…
A “fire and forget” spell would be more useful in most situations, however that change not only lowers the risk/skill involved in using it, it also changes CE drastically to an entirely different skill, which the devs are unlikely to do. Why not just add on to/improve the current mechanics?
^I agree with Kyon, the effect should be increased to match the risk, or the risks should be lowered through other means.
I don’t agree that CE should be a ‘fire and forget’ spell. That takes all the risks out of using it and would probably result in the effects of the spell being nerfed.
The problem is just that since CE currently has such a long channel to get to the actual effect, it means you’re self-rooting for an effect that rarely gets off successfully.
The spell should be revamped to be more like it was in GW2 beta, where iirc you could hold the spell to charge and release it when you wanted. They can make it have reduced damage and bleed stacks depending on the charge time.
Another idea would be to make it so that CE not only pulses cripple during the channel, it also pulses damage like overloads currently do.
As it currently stands the effect is nowhere near useful a fire and forget model would be best as what you suggest would likely never see any charge.
As I’ve said, the charge-up effect used to be there, so it’s obviously do-able. Changing it to a “fire and forget” spell like eruption requires changing the spell to be ground target, which is fundamentally different from the current pbaoe spell, I’m pretty sure your idea is less likely to be implemented, if anything.
And also, my 2nd idea of making CE pulse damage is also a relatively small change, yet with some reduction in the total channel time it could relieve the lack of pressure that the current channel introduces.
I would press the button simply for the blast finisher. When you aren’t using the skill the damage is Zero so even if they nerfed the damage slightly I would much rather have the skill be usable compared to something you will never use.
Blast finisher doesn’t happen until you actually finish the channel…so I hope you haven’t been self-interrupting yourself mid-combat…
A “fire and forget” spell would be more useful in most situations, however that change not only lowers the risk/skill involved in using it, it also changes CE drastically to an entirely different skill, which the devs are unlikely to do. Why not just add on to/improve the current mechanics?
^I agree with Kyon, the effect should be increased to match the risk, or the risks should be lowered through other means.
Thing is if you changed it to a charge up skill I would argue that nobody would charge up the spell due to how easy it is to interrupt. If that change was made I would NEVER charge the spell and press the button the shortest amount of time to get a blast finisher. You completely misread the post in thinking 1) i actually bother using churning earth and 2) I cancel it without getting the blast finisher.
If you channel for any period of time longer than 1 second it is a free interrupt along with huge damage that follows that interrupt. I don’t agree it should be a risk reward thing because a channel without stability and with mediocre damage is NEVER worth the risk. At the amount of time you have to stand still and channel without stability I would argue it would never be worth it without one shotting nearly everybody and of course nobody wants that.
You want risk reward? Go play tempest because for all it does wrong it at least tries to make the risk worth the reward. Churning earth does not do that and will never do that.
Pulsing damage would not solve the problem either as enemies will likely go ahead and interrupt you after taking the first tick of damage. Then hit you for a massive amount of damage because you effectively can’t do anything. Again, the only way pulsing damage would work is 1) with a lot of stab and 2) with a lot of damage.
A fire and forget model makes a lot more sense in both a PvE and PvP setting as in PvE it would make the skill usable and in PvP it would not be simply laughed at as the enemy interrupts you and does massive damage. Its counter play then would be seeing the AoE on the floor and simply moving out of it.
There is no justification for the channel time on Churning earth with no stability and an extremely low amount of reward. A delayed blast finisher even at lower bleed stacks or damage would be better than a skill that is completely trash.
Thing is if you changed it to a charge up skill I would argue that nobody would charge up the spell due to how easy it is to interrupt. If that change was made I would NEVER charge the spell and press the button the shortest amount of time to get a blast finisher. You completely misread the post in thinking 1) i actually bother using churning earth and 2) I cancel it without getting the blast finisher.
If you channel for any period of time longer than 1 second it is a free interrupt along with huge damage that follows that interrupt. I don’t agree it should be a risk reward thing because a channel without stability and with mediocre damage is NEVER worth the risk. At the amount of time you have to stand still and channel without stability I would argue it would never be worth it without one shotting nearly everybody and of course nobody wants that.
You want risk reward? Go play tempest because for all it does wrong it at least tries to make the risk worth the reward. Churning earth does not do that and will never do that.
So Anet can make it worth channeling. They can either make it safer to channel with stability or protection, or the end result could be made more powerful. AOE KD like Kyon suggested would be a force to be reckoned with, and if people decide they all want to just release it asap, well that’s their choice.
CE is far from ideal at the moment, but there are so many ways that they can make it better without changing its identity as a skill.
Pulsing damage would not solve the problem either as enemies will likely go ahead and interrupt you after taking the first tick of damage. Then hit you for a massive amount of damage because you effectively can’t do anything. Again, the only way pulsing damage would work is 1) with a lot of stab and 2) with a lot of damage.
A fire and forget model makes a lot more sense in both a PvE and PvP setting as in PvE it would make the skill usable and in PvP it would not be simply laughed at as the enemy interrupts you and does massive damage. Its counter play then would be seeing the AoE on the floor and simply moving out of it.
There is no justification for the channel time on Churning earth with no stability and an extremely low amount of reward. A delayed blast finisher even at lower bleed stacks or damage would be better than a skill that is completely trash.
Honestly, what’s stopping enemies from ccing you and doing massive damage at any other moment?
What you don’t seem to understand is that, while it might make the skill far more usable to be “fire and forget”, it’s completely changing the identity of the skill to be something like eruption. It doesn’t make sense from a design and development standpoint. Why would you want to create more of the same, especially when there are animations and other assets that you might have made for the skill already? Why is dagger, a mainly PBAOE weapon, suddenly getting ground target spells that are more suitable for ranged weapons?
It makes far more sense for the devs to take what they have and modify/improve on the effects rather than to change it entirely-if they even change it at all, since there are so many other more notable issues that need addressing.
So really, ask for changes that make sense, not ones that require entire retooling of a skill, especially one that just makes things risk-free.
Thing is if you changed it to a charge up skill I would argue that nobody would charge up the spell due to how easy it is to interrupt. If that change was made I would NEVER charge the spell and press the button the shortest amount of time to get a blast finisher. You completely misread the post in thinking 1) i actually bother using churning earth and 2) I cancel it without getting the blast finisher.
If you channel for any period of time longer than 1 second it is a free interrupt along with huge damage that follows that interrupt. I don’t agree it should be a risk reward thing because a channel without stability and with mediocre damage is NEVER worth the risk. At the amount of time you have to stand still and channel without stability I would argue it would never be worth it without one shotting nearly everybody and of course nobody wants that.
You want risk reward? Go play tempest because for all it does wrong it at least tries to make the risk worth the reward. Churning earth does not do that and will never do that.
So Anet can make it worth channeling. They can either make it safer to channel with stability or protection, or the end result could be made more powerful. AOE KD like Kyon suggested would be a force to be reckoned with, and if people decide they all want to just release it asap, well that’s their choice.
CE is far from ideal at the moment, but there are so many ways that they can make it better without changing its identity as a skill.
Pulsing damage would not solve the problem either as enemies will likely go ahead and interrupt you after taking the first tick of damage. Then hit you for a massive amount of damage because you effectively can’t do anything. Again, the only way pulsing damage would work is 1) with a lot of stab and 2) with a lot of damage.
A fire and forget model makes a lot more sense in both a PvE and PvP setting as in PvE it would make the skill usable and in PvP it would not be simply laughed at as the enemy interrupts you and does massive damage. Its counter play then would be seeing the AoE on the floor and simply moving out of it.
There is no justification for the channel time on Churning earth with no stability and an extremely low amount of reward. A delayed blast finisher even at lower bleed stacks or damage would be better than a skill that is completely trash.
Honestly, what’s stopping enemies from ccing you and doing massive damage at any other moment?
What you don’t seem to understand is that, while it might make the skill far more usable to be “fire and forget”, it’s completely changing the identity of the skill to be something like eruption. It doesn’t make sense from a design and development standpoint. Why would you want to create more of the same, especially when there are animations and other assets that you might have made for the skill already? Why is dagger, a mainly PBAOE weapon, suddenly getting ground target spells that are more suitable for ranged weapons?
It makes far more sense for the devs to take what they have and modify/improve on the effects rather than to change it entirely-if they even change it at all, since there are so many other more notable issues that need addressing.
So really, ask for changes that make sense, not ones that require entire retooling of a skill, especially one that just makes things risk-free.
Thing is why does it need to be a risk reward skill? What other weapon skills that people use do risk reward? Not things like overloads but weapon skills? As this is the Ele form I do consider making a skill that is currently unusable into something usable as an important discussion to have. Even earth 5 on focus for ele isn’t a risk reward thing, it is pure reward. You are INVINCIBLE for a few seconds and can attack during that duration. Risk reward should be kept within reason and currently you would have to buff Churning earth massively or rework it to make it worth it.
And you know what is preventing them from CCing you at other times? You are a target that is moving and attacking as well as one that can dodge that CC. Churning earth gives up all of these in order for a very lackluster reward and I would only ever consider it being useful at its current channel if it was given massive stab and protection as well as much more damage and even then it might not be worth it because if you see somebody using churning earth that is a huge indicator to just start backing up and backdodge. Then resume your attack immediately after they finish.
You can keep believing that people will charge the skill if it is turned into a charge skill but I highly doubt anybody would charge it and would rather fire off the skill quickly for the blast finisher and Might. The charge type style you suggest would not only give a false sense of choice but would actually be a marginal improvement as you would get one extra blast finisher. Otherwise the damage will not be high enough for a reasonable level of charge to make it worth it. A fire and forget model doesn’t need to necessarily be ground targeted though that is possible. It could also apply a buff that creates the shockwave around the character when it goes off, maybe with some earth animation playing around the character’s feet. That said a fire and forget model would make the skill have a good medium of utility and damage as being able to cripple the enemy is useful.
Thing is why does it need to be a risk reward skill? What other weapon skills that people use do risk reward? Not things like overloads but weapon skills? As this is the Ele form I do consider making a skill that is currently unusable into something usable as an important discussion to have. Even earth 5 on focus for ele isn’t a risk reward thing, it is pure reward. You are INVINCIBLE for a few seconds and can attack during that duration. Risk reward should be kept within reason and currently you would have to buff Churning earth massively or rework it to make it worth it.
Any other channel skill? Meteor shower is one right off the top of my head, deep freeze from icebow is another.
It’s not a good thing for the game to have been power creeped to “reward without risk”, and you’re suggesting they go even further. I can’t fathom how you think it’s better that way, if anything, the current overtuned classes and rampant CC and aoe spam needs to be toned down.
And you know what is preventing them from CCing you at other times? You are a target that is moving and attacking as well as one that can dodge that CC. Churning earth gives up all of these in order for a very lackluster reward and I would only ever consider it being useful at its current channel if it was given massive stab and protection as well as much more damage and even then it might not be worth it because if you see somebody using churning earth that is a huge indicator to just start backing up and backdodge. Then resume your attack immediately after they finish.
I don’t see how moving and attacking stops them from ccing you with near instantaneous cc’s…and there are quite a few of those out there these days. CE for sure makes it easier since you’re self rooted and doesn’t give baseline stability, but that just points to the fact that CE was never meant to be a skill you just use at any point in a fight, you use it only if you have coordinated with teammates who can cover you, you have your own way to protect yourself, or move yourself…etc.
That being said, yes, the current reward for CE is too low, has been for a while. Again, this can be changed, much easier to add effects onto it rather than make it a brand new skill. More damage, stab on channel perhaps, KD at finish…w/e. Anet can iterate.
You can keep believing that people will charge the skill if it is turned into a charge skill but I highly doubt anybody would charge it and would rather fire off the skill quickly for the blast finisher and Might. The charge type style you suggest would not only give a false sense of choice but would actually be a marginal improvement as you would get one extra blast finisher. Otherwise the damage will not be high enough for a reasonable level of charge to make it worth it. A fire and forget model doesn’t need to necessarily be ground targeted though that is possible. It could also apply a buff that creates the shockwave around the character when it goes off, maybe with some earth animation playing around the character’s feet. That said a fire and forget model would make the skill have a good medium of utility and damage as being able to cripple the enemy is useful.
You’re right, people aren’t going to always channel it to the fullest if charge up is available, because the current end reward isn’t worth it unless it’s a coordinated burst or something. However, putting aside the obvious fact that the charge-up is giving more control to the player already, which IS a huge buff in itself…just like I’ve said repeatedly, both the charge up and the end result of CE could be improved, there are so many options to go with here.
Now, if you’re suggesting that they make it like a mixture of ring of fire and eruption, then that’s a slightly more interesting change. However, that still means they’re tossing out assets they have for the current CE, and have to build up “almost” an entirely new skill. I’m willing to bet that the amount of development effort would not be worth it to the developers as simply adding effects to the current skill, while maintaining the skills’ unique identity.
You assume that they don’t have enough on their plates to balance and fix. For one, I’d rather they work on scepter before CE. When they have such limited time…they need to have priorities, and I’m thinking CE isn’t a high enough priority to deserve such a big change.