Guild Wars 2

conjured weapons are op

Lunarain.8430,
Dude you ended close to full health. I’m totally looking forward to your roam vid.

KazNaka.4718,
That was probably the best conjured weapon example anyone could give. You know what part I liked best? The static spin – damage accumulated, 13k.

To both of you, I commend you on your use of the rock cliff and your knowledge of this AI to make Svanir look silly. Loved the vids!

On a lark ImProVocateur I made a few passes at this without the use of conjurs. I didn’t try very hard however because you’re asking us to run counter intuitive to the class makeup. You’ve basically asked us to facetank a pair of melee mobs with glass cannons. The only way to drop them that quickly is to blow them apart with high power/precision. At least, thats the only way I can think of. And relegation to dagger mainhand means we’re at 600 range when we start up and have to stay that close to be effective.

Someone can do this, but I won’t be able to with regularity. Any success of mine will be a fluke.
to put things in perspective:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWxMFqRip9E
Thats a Guardian. He’s meant to be up front. I’m a squishy ele. I’m not meant to be up front.

So while I don’t understand denial of scepters and staffs as they are 900 and1200 range weps, I do understand why you denied the use of summons. But therein lies the problem with you wanting a “fix” to dagger skills. I can guess when you watched that vid you were thinking “Melody cheated and healed the golem so IT facetanked the damage while the ele sat back and spammed. How CHEAP!”

No. How it should have been. I’ll explain later.

If we want to complain about a skill setup, lets start right there. Eles are the ONLY castor class that doesn’t have a perma combat summon. mesmers have their clones. They’re up, all the time, in your face, whirling through your line, driving the NPCs nuts before running into a ball and exploding in flashy fashion so you can make more of them. Lather, rinse repeat. The whole class’s special abilities are built around the things, they are so integral.

Necromancers have minions; that ball of stinkily exploding, blinding, bull’s charging fury that always seems to reappear faster than you can kill the necro and heaven help you if they have lifestealing NPCs because if they do you’re going to be chasing a mark spamming life stealer while her horde is eating your behinds for breakfast.

Eles have…60 seconds of help (max) followed by 45 to 120 seconds of cooldown. Now if you want to complain about something complain about that. i don’t have a real problem with 120 and 45 second cooldowns. I do have a problem with 180 second and 105 second cooldowns though, which is what you actually get when one of our summons can go the distance.

Now, someone can handle your challenge. I managed to down the Chief a couple times with a x\10\x\30\30 but didnt have my camera running. It was also, frankly, as much luck as skill. I couldn’t reliably duplicate the performance every time, so it would be unfair to post as a proof. Someone with a lot more time on their hands and faster reflexes than aged old me can pick up the gauntlet. But doing so would not prove whats wrong with eles to Anet. They don’t WANT eles facetanking melee characters. They want us as support classes, and that’s how I play my ele. I support. Either my summons or my team. And I have to give up those summons to go into a PvP area, even though many pvps scoff at the idea of WvW as player verusus player. i don’t see a balance issue with buffing ele glyph of lesser and glyph of ele to remove the “60 second duration” completely. At the very least. i think designing a character that cant facetank only to remove their best tool for damage control in PvE solo play is foolish.

When I solo in WvW, I D/D and kite like crazy because it drives the other side to detraction. The moment I get anywhere near a team or a zerg, I’m on staff.

So I don’t want eles facetanking melees either. If I want to facetank anything, I’ll run a guardian or a warrior.

It’s not a very good fight to showcase the strength of dagger main-hand by any measure; both Svanir and Chieftain’s melee range is 300 to match the ele’s so theres no way to out-range them as you would against a warrior or guardian opponent.

If anything it shows that Svanir and Chieftain should be nerfed for the sake of dagger eles, not necessarily proving that the ele needs a buff.

ImProVocateur.5189:
Here is that D/D vid……tried to pull one off spec’d 30 fire, 30 air with D/D and I couldn’t do it. Probably could have if I busted out the earth elemental…..

In any case here is a pretty common D/D bunker build vid.
http://youtu.be/ihP0mn-2sXk

Here’s the icebow vid, includes both npcs. http://youtu.be/Z1BWRyjt8Vk

If conjured are so powerfull, why aren’t they being used??

I think it might have to do with survivability? For using them I’d have to make a super bunker ele (high health and armor) and wear d/d so I can have enough mobility to survive, maybe even s/d?

So for boosting conjures I have to go for 30 on fire trait line. Then Earth and water for bunker… maybe 20/20? Soldier equipment for more survivability, maybe some cleric jewelery for regen…

What do you think? I’m just wondering why don’t I use them if they have so much dps…

Wrong, to boost conjures you have to get all the situational damage amplifiers and sit on one attunement while you mash away, and they’re pve only when it comes to dedicated builds.

At pvp you can only use them for niche builds exploiting the low cooldown version of fire staff retreat on lava axe, the cc of hammer, and perhaps siegebow’s 4-3-2 or even 5 if you catch some poor sod COMPLETELY off guard.

Shield’s far too situational to be used consistently and fgs is just fgs.

In fact dedicated conjured builds only need a 20 in fire for conjurer, the earlier I mentioned for pve are speedrun specs.

Yeah, I’ve been playing my ele for about 2 weeks now, and have a guardian as well. These videos seemed… disingenuous in that I can do better with the ele after 2 weeks than that.

You want to see a profession with a high skill ceiling? (because that IS what we are talking about) Try just clicking skills on the basic Engineer build. There is a study in a high skill ceiling with a VERY low reward, out pacing ele by quite a bit.

Also, conjures ARE OP. I <3 them.

Galbar.7843:

If conjured are so powerfull, why aren’t they being used??

I think it might have to do with survivability? For using them I’d have to make a super bunker ele (high health and armor) and wear d/d so I can have enough mobility to survive, maybe even s/d?

So for boosting conjures I have to go for 30 on fire trait line. Then Earth and water for bunker… maybe 20/20? Soldier equipment for more survivability, maybe some cleric jewelery for regen…

What do you think? I’m just wondering why don’t I use them if they have so much dps…

With the coming patch it might be viable to use them as your offensive weapons, and maybe run D/F or S/F for defensive abilities. Probably S/F (more blinds) I know I’m going to be checking it out once the patch actually hits.

lunyboy.8672:

Yeah, I’ve been playing my ele for about 2 weeks now, and have a guardian as well. These videos seemed… disingenuous in that I can do better with the ele after 2 weeks than that.

You want to see a profession with a high skill ceiling? (because that IS what we are talking about) Try just clicking skills on the basic Engineer build. There is a study in a high skill ceiling with a VERY low reward, out pacing ele by quite a bit.

Also, conjures ARE OP. I <3 them.

Yeah I have to agree with this too. Engineer has got to be the highest ceiling when it comes to skill.

Yes there is a lot to know about Elementalist, but the attunements don’t change, and you generally know the kind of stuff your going to be able to find in each attunement; Ex: Fire – burns, Water – heals, etc.

Engineer your toolkit is always changing based on utilities selected….so figure you have how many utilities? That’s how many different F1-F4 abilities. I can see that being difficult to really get a grasp on.

lunyboy.8672:

Yeah, I’ve been playing my ele for about 2 weeks now, and have a guardian as well. These videos seemed… disingenuous in that I can do better with the ele after 2 weeks than that.

You want to see a profession with a high skill ceiling? (because that IS what we are talking about) Try just clicking skills on the basic Engineer build. There is a study in a high skill ceiling with a VERY low reward, out pacing ele by quite a bit.

Also, conjures ARE OP. I <3 them.

Actually I’d like to see the 2-week-old ele swagging the npcs without the conjures and d/d or d/f in under 2 minutes or even 1.

Bragging is cool but vids proving it are far cooler.

Engi is much more flexible on top of being harder to play isn’kitten

My goodness that Elementalist was horrible. I can take down Svanir and that other enemy just as quickly as the warrior with my Elementalist that uses a staff.

Axelifus.3269:

lunyboy.8672:

Yeah, I’ve been playing my ele for about 2 weeks now, and have a guardian as well. These videos seemed… disingenuous in that I can do better with the ele after 2 weeks than that.

You want to see a profession with a high skill ceiling? (because that IS what we are talking about) Try just clicking skills on the basic Engineer build. There is a study in a high skill ceiling with a VERY low reward, out pacing ele by quite a bit.

Also, conjures ARE OP. I <3 them.

Actually I’d like to see the 2-week-old ele swagging the npcs without the conjures and d/d or d/f in under 2 minutes or even 1.

Bragging is cool but vids proving it are far cooler.

Engi is much more flexible on top of being harder to play isn’kitten

You do it as an engineer without kits and a pistol/shield build and I will do it as an ele without conjures

Melody Cross.8465:

-snip-

Me “facetanking” Svanir, i.e. no dodges, no summons, no utilities, and not even a heal were used.

I just did conjure build (25/25/10/10/0 max damage amp traits) in hotjoin, do I get free gold?

5k for just a simple and easy to land autoattack!
edit: if you want that gear swag you have to play alot of games in Tpvp.

I could’ve done a lot better, but that’s both of them. It’s not as faceroll as a the warrior, but an ele is never going to kill mobs as well as a warrior or necro and it’s a fundamental part of the class.

I could’ve done a lot better, but that’s both of them. It’s not as faceroll as a the warrior, but an ele is never going to kill mobs as well as a warrior or necro and it’s a fundamental part of the class.

I could’ve done a lot better, but that’s both of them. It’s not as faceroll as a the warrior, but an ele is never going to kill mobs as well as a warrior or necro and it’s a fundamental part of the class.

triple post ftw!

Yeah… wish I could delete them.

Miz.2761:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZL2wkrIV5MA

I could’ve done a lot better, but that’s both of them. It’s not as faceroll as a the warrior, but an ele is never going to kill mobs as well as a warrior or necro and it’s a fundamental part of the class.

1 (for one post Miz, dont get greedy :P) and a good job Miz but thats staff and the OP specified Dagger mainhand. Look at all the kiting you did. You were always hitting them, but you were always moving away from them too. I’d estimate your range for much of the fight was 700, which was easy to keep with the chills and the freeze you pulled off.

So an ele remains either a support character where something stands up in the front and you blas away (or heal) while you stand off—even just a little) and let it take the brunt or a kiting machine where range and HOLDING that range is king.

Miz.2761:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZL2wkrIV5MA

I could’ve done a lot better, but that’s both of them. It’s not as faceroll as a the warrior, but an ele is never going to kill mobs as well as a warrior or necro and it’s a fundamental part of the class.

1 (for one post Miz, dont get greedy :P) and a good job Miz but thats staff and the OP specified Dagger mainhand. Look at all the kiting you did. You were always hitting them, but you were always moving away from them too. I’d estimate your range for much of the fight was 700, which was easy to keep with the chills and the freeze you pulled off.

So an ele remains either a support character where something stands up in the front and you blas away (or heal) while you stand off—even just a little) and let it take the brunt or a kiting machine where range and HOLDING that range is king.

Miz.2761:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZL2wkrIV5MA

I could’ve done a lot better, but that’s both of them. It’s not as faceroll as a the warrior, but an ele is never going to kill mobs as well as a warrior or necro and it’s a fundamental part of the class.

This and the “pve viable staff” thread made me chuckle, I mean why wouldn’t staff be viable for pve. Also it shows how stupid it feels to have lf not stunbreaking. Nice vid.

Melody Cross.8465:

So an ele remains either a support character where something stands up in the front and you blas away (or heal) while you stand off—even just a little) and let it take the brunt or a kiting machine where range and HOLDING that range is king.

I see you conveniently ignored my vid >:]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9L21ZqGgc3A

Other classes combo across 1 weapon swap. We combo across 4 attunements. You can read up on them on the wiki.

Armor of earth will prevent interrupt on churning earth. Channeling it farther away from the person can sometimes cause them to backpedal out of it, at which point you lightning flash it on top of them.

A nice cheese move in Skyhammer as D/D is updraft off a point onto the breakable glass, then earth 3 immobilize, earthquake. This usually kills them as they can’t get off it in time without an instant cleanse/immunity proc.

Everything is about positioning and cd management. This includes procs from traits, too. There’s no need to use water when you have 90% health and no conditions on you. There’s no need to use churning earth if there’s no fire field down, or the enemy isn’t already cc’d/downed. Another good time to use churning is porting it onto people from LoS (it can miss, but when it doesn’t: bammmmmmmmmm!)

When comparing this game to the original guild wars PvP, this game is checkers opposed to chess. Ele is one of the few classes that makes me think about what I’m doing to play it even remotely well.

KazNaka.4718:

Melody Cross.8465:

So an ele remains either a support character where something stands up in the front and you blas away (or heal) while you stand off—even just a little) and let it take the brunt or a kiting machine where range and HOLDING that range is king.

I see you conveniently ignored my vid >:]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9L21ZqGgc3A

Not intentionally. thank you for making it. Unfortunately, its not me we’re trying to impress. I know there are other eles out there better at the game than I and make no such suggestions that I’m “leet” anymore (the fact that I use the term probably dates me as “yee old fart” :P ). Also, we missed the chieftan in this vid, with so much of your shutdown on recycle how did you plan to handle him?

I’m not singling you out. Miz missed the staff restriction. I’m simply citing the rules the OP has requested be followed. Rules i can’t see myself performing to expectation under…unless you wanna see me take them with 25 stacks of bloodlust or cooruption with tanky armor after a half hour farming the ghosts. that would provide the power to performance. probably.

It can be done with an ele. You proved facetanking can be done on the svanir with proper use of kd and stun, Miz proved a good staff build can down them both as he kited them through his AoE drops while he kited. The restrictions now in place are more rigid than the original post though. which, I think now, was made to a: get a chuckle and b: to get a few eles talking about this and posting vids. It obviously had the desired effect in those regards.

If its insisted i will throw up a vid of me soloing the chief with D/D or D/F. But again I state that it would be a FLUKE were I do to so. 1 in 10 or even higher that I succeed rather than drop. And i wouldnt have the interest to go after the svanir after what i know would be a hard won victory over that chief. we’re talking 1 in 20 to 1 in 50 chance to tackle both with my reflexes and capabilities as they are. I’m just not as good as (as fast) I used to be. I quit monking in GvG in the first place because I couldn’t catch spikes with infusions anymore. Once your reflexes start to go, you’ll understand, and I pray to all of you that it isn’t due to something as…debilitating as diabetes is turning out to be for me.

The premise I’ve been laboring under is that the OP believes that dagger mainhand is underpowered for the close quarters it requires. My counterargument is that other eles can handle both chief and svanir but i can’t do so easily. It is utilities that I think need a buff if we want to see improved play in pve pvp and wvw. I dont want to see attribute swapping mechanics changed, I think it would be a bad idea. I wouldn’t be upset with a buff to damage or recharge times for a dagger mainhand, but most who enjoy a class would enjoy it more if anet catered to our choices.

i dont think that would be in our or anets interest though. this reminds me of when anet changed hall of heroes to make it easier for casual gamers to “jump into” the pvp of the original guild wars. as I and many other players lamented at the time, it would and did kill the entire playstyle which, of course, invited all the other pvps that replaced it.

if you prefer something more recent in the online rpg communities (puts on flamer-proof jacket) look at the reaction to Mists of Pandora on the OG WoW community. many have been vocal about their dislike for the change.

To this topic: Decrying ele capabilities because “its too hard” would lead to the same issue(s); eles for more casual players. Being a casual player, myself, I can’t get behind that. I have a pretty good idea what it would do to the class. I dont want the players who have ammassed such skill to be hampered by may poor performance. I’ll just keep tweeking macros on my deathstalker and hope I come off alright.

To those who insist on major sweeping changes to the ele: be careful what you wish for from a company that has built its model on casual play. You may very well get what you wish for. And you more than likely will not enjoy the aftertaste.

here’s something for you guys to chew on. it’s a bit messy though because im doing this from a laptop.
http://youtu.be/9vNRXHc8bcw

Melody Cross.8465:

When comparing this game to the original guild wars PvP, this game is checkers opposed to chess. Ele is one of the few classes that makes me think about what I’m doing to play it even remotely well.

KazNaka.4718:

Melody Cross.8465:

So an ele remains either a support character where something stands up in the front and you blas away (or heal) while you stand off—even just a little) and let it take the brunt or a kiting machine where range and HOLDING that range is king.

I see you conveniently ignored my vid >:]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9L21ZqGgc3A

Not intentionally. thank you for making it. Unfortunately, its not me we’re trying to impress. I know there are other eles out there better at the game than I and make no such suggestions that I’m “leet” anymore (the fact that I use the term probably dates me as “yee old fart” :P ). Also, we missed the chieftan in this vid, with so much of your shutdown on recycle how did you plan to handle him?

I’m not singling you out. Miz missed the staff restriction. I’m simply citing the rules the OP has requested be followed. Rules i can’t see myself performing to expectation under…unless you wanna see me take them with 25 stacks of bloodlust or cooruption with tanky armor after a half hour farming the ghosts. that would provide the power to performance. probably.

It can be done with an ele. You proved facetanking can be done on the svanir with proper use of kd and stun, Miz proved a good staff build can down them both as he kited them through his AoE drops while he kited. The restrictions now in place are more rigid than the original post though. which, I think now, was made to a: get a chuckle and b: to get a few eles talking about this and posting vids. It obviously had the desired effect in those regards.

Excuses…that’s all I’m hearing. I was handicapping myself by using only weapon skills (no heals, no dodges, no utilities, no elites).

Here you go: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzOcDrsXmeQ&feature=youtu.be and I STILL did not use any dodges or elites.

I believe the rule was kill Svanir 1st then Chieftain 2nd. Please don’t say I got out-of-combat healing this time.

I’m just showing how to use main-hand dagger effectively through smart usage of attunements. Sure, my cc were on cooldown, but once I finish going through all the attunements, it would almost be up again. This brings a second point: a good ele would know instinctively all the cooldown timers.

Regarding your slow reflexes, normally I would say practice makes perfect, but you know….maybe it’s not as easy to develop muscle memory when you’re older.

Between Lunarain.8430 and KazNaka.4718 I’d say case solved. Or proof shown: two excellent eles have video proof (not just the “I canz do it so canz” you we often see said but not backed up) that this is doable. Both dropped in under a minute for both players in fact.

Dunno where the OP is atm, but I would argue someone owes someone some gold.

Excuses…that’s all I’m hearing. I was handicapping myself by using only weapon skills (no heals, no dodges, no utilities, no elites).

Here you go: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzOcDrsXmeQ&feature=youtu.be and I STILL did not use any dodges or elites.

I believe the rule was kill Svanir 1st then Chieftain 2nd. Please don’t say I got out-of-combat healing this time.

I’m just showing how to use main-hand dagger effectively through smart usage of attunements. Sure, my cc were on cooldown, but once I finish going through all the attunements, it would almost be up again. This brings a second point: a good ele would know instinctively all the cooldown timers.

Regarding your slow reflexes, normally I would say practice makes perfect, but you know….maybe it’s not as easy to develop muscle memory when you’re older.

Actually its age and this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diabetic_neuropathy
since you showed interest. Fortunately i did take some care of myself before I was diagnosed and i make an effort to control my sugar now so theres no talk of cutting any feet off. Thats probably TMI.

Thank you both for proving my point though. D/X is viable and quite effective in the right hands; downright scary if you know what you’re doing.

I gave this thread time to allow players to submit their video. I announced a contest proposal in the PvP discussion area. I had hoped that twenty elementalist competitors would post a video. That did not happen. There can be no contest without enough competitors; therefore, there is no reason to continue this thread further. You would think that with 300k elementalists made that twenty who could complete the initial challenge would be easy to find. Maybe the skill curve is higher than people think.

Thank you to all who showed interest, especially to those who posted personal video links. Lunarain.8430 and KazNaka.4718, I was most impressed by your last links. You are two incredibly talented players. We can all hope to reach the level where success in PvP and WvW feels worth the effort, so the ele becomes more valuable than a finger-tangling-combo-fields-for-might spammer in PvE dungeons.

Knote.2904:

Azunai.5974:

Asking a serious question here.

Were you trolling with the ele, or were you actually that bad? Wait, no, even if you weren’t, who’d admit to being that bad over trolling?

kitten, my head hurts.

I think everyone here is missing the point.

He played terrible with all of them, clicking, just randomly pressing buttons, yet was able to completely faceroll with the last 3 classes lol.

this and it is exactly true, it pretty much shows perfectly how kitten the ele is in comparison to the other classes, the worst is ANY other class you can literally headroll moronicly without a clue to what you are doing and still easily kill him, but ele you simply cant, you are not even close without having a very good understanding of the class, skills and usage, when one class need that just to do something every one else headrolls without ANY knowledge at all, then the balance is broken almost beyound repair…

the problem consist when you get to the top notch players, its the same difference between the skill lvl and the efficiency, just on a whole other scale, but still the same results.