Guild Wars 2

mods: this is not about just the ice bow so please do not merge it, it is a MUCH more meta question

Why do those of us who could give a kitten about pvp and play pve are the ones who are forced to lose out all the time to make pvpers happy? It makes no sense to me.

What is next anet? Deciding having 4 attunements should not be allowed? Making dagger off-hand only?

If they want to nerf things in a never-ending futile quest to balance all the professions make it so it only applies to pvp. Leave pve out of it. They are making us second class citizens when they do this.

Menadena.7482:

mods: this is not about just the ice bow so please do not merge it, it is a MUCH more meta question

Why do those of us who could give a kitten about pvp and play pve are the ones who are forced to lose out all the time to make pvpers happy? It makes no sense to me.

What is next anet? Deciding having 4 attunements should not be allowed? Making dagger off-hand only?

If they want to nerf things in a never-ending futile quest to balance all the professions make it so it only applies to pvp. Leave pve out of it. They are making us second class citizens when they do this.

The current patch does not change eles place in PvE in the slightest. The meta staff build still has the highest dps. I don’t understand your point.

That’s funny because they nerfed IceBow over PvE. They also nerfed RTL over PvE because you were getting places you shouldn’t. They also nerfed powerful aura over PvE. Shall I go on? PvE has done more harm to PvP than the other way around. PvE is easy, there is always a way to be useful … in sPvP there is now only D/D Cele or you melt.

Like I said, I was not just talking about the icebow. Maybe I should have clarified that they continually try to balance whatever mode of the game and the other 2 modes suffer for it. Usually the one they balance on is pvp. If they want to balance all 3 modes have weapons operate with different stats in all 3 …. it would make the problem MUCH easier.

I, for one, do not use ice bow all the time anyway. They (and the others) are great in boss fights to conjure weapons for the zerg though.

I will ask this in the general game forum as the meta idea (3 skill balances in each mode) applies to all professions.

I would agree and I play World v World and PvE. I could care less about PvP but I don’t see why Dagger Dagger has to be nerfed in favor of PvP balance. Dagger Dagger is pretty lackluster except in small groups in WvW (aka, situations closer to sPvP) and in PvE staff is heavily favored.

I agree with the ice bow nerf as it was simply too strong. However I cannot justify nerfing most of the other stuff for ONE gamemode that will never be a defining characteristic of the game as a whole.

Side note: It is called GUILD WARS not 5v5 sPvP wars. If anything should determine balance it should be taking into consideration all three game modes. PvE is largely unimportant besides the zerker gear meta and WvW and PvP have very different senses of what is good. I would not go into a WvW map as dagger dagger because you play for the benefit of the team and not yourself. I just feel like anet wants a 5v5 mode to capitalize on the overly popular MOBA genre of team vs team but the problem is that this game is not only that one game mode, it is WvW and PvE

All right, let’s make Celestial DD elementalists have a DPS comparable to Zerk staff eles in PVE, that’s going to be very balanced yay!

Taldren.7523:

That’s funny because they nerfed IceBow over PvE. They also nerfed RTL over PvE because you were getting places you shouldn’t. They also nerfed powerful aura over PvE. Shall I go on? PvE has done more harm to PvP than the other way around. PvE is easy, there is always a way to be useful … in sPvP there is now only D/D Cele or you melt.

Any source on RTL? I’m against that nerf totally, but I remember it being an intentional nerf to combat mobility (wvw/pvp).

OP: you can do fractals 50 in non-zerker rares. damage nerfs dont matter. damage output in HoT is supposedly even less relevant. never in the history of the game have eles not been wanted in every game mode. this doesnt change that.

Cristobal.8640:

All right, let’s make Celestial DD elementalists have a DPS comparable to Zerk staff eles in PVE, that’s going to be very balanced yay!

Sarcasm and speaking for other people. What he is asking is why balance around one game mode when there are 3.

My guess is because they want to make sPvP into a game mode that gets on the Esports bandwagon. In my opinion they will fail because the game is not built to be balanced around only one game mode. People play 3 game modes and when you nerf based on 1 the other 2 suffer.

Outside of ice bow, you are only going to be missing a few might stacks in a staff PvE builf

MadRabbit.3179:

Outside of ice bow, you are only going to be missing a few might stacks in a staff PvE builf

And if you wanted to play Dagger Dagger in PvE and WvW where it is only just an “ok” build compared to staff?

Senario.2038:

MadRabbit.3179:

Outside of ice bow, you are only going to be missing a few might stacks in a staff PvE builf

And if you wanted to play Dagger Dagger in PvE and WvW where it is only just an “ok” build compared to staff?

Welcome to GW2 where only some builds are viable in certain game modes. Please take a ticket and form a line behind necros, mesmers, necromancers and all other classes.

MadRabbit.3179:

Senario.2038:

MadRabbit.3179:

Outside of ice bow, you are only going to be missing a few might stacks in a staff PvE builf

And if you wanted to play Dagger Dagger in PvE and WvW where it is only just an “ok” build compared to staff?

Welcome to GW2 where only some builds are viable in certain game modes. Please take a ticket and form a line behind necros, mesmers, necromancers and all other classes.

Except Necros are exceptionally good in WvW and decent in PvE. Mesmers are the same. Why shouldn’t we have it so classes can be played to a decent amount within every game mode?

Senario.2038:

MadRabbit.3179:

Senario.2038:

MadRabbit.3179:

Outside of ice bow, you are only going to be missing a few might stacks in a staff PvE builf

And if you wanted to play Dagger Dagger in PvE and WvW where it is only just an “ok” build compared to staff?

Welcome to GW2 where only some builds are viable in certain game modes. Please take a ticket and form a line behind necros, mesmers, necromancers and all other classes.

Except Necros are exceptionally good in WvW and decent in PvE. Mesmers are the same. Why shouldn’t we have it so classes can be played to a decent amount within every game mode?

That is not quite true. Necros are pigeonholed into one build for WvW zerg and a couple others for roaming. The don’t have a spot in the current dungeon meta. Mesmers are only in WvW zergs for mainly stealth and portal bots; their illsions die too fast in zergs so their build variety is greatly limited. Thiefs and rangers have no representation in zergs.

The point is every class has limited application in different aspects of the game and are usually pigeonholed into one or two builds.

And it’s not like D/D is rendered obsolete or completely useless in dungeons. Most of the restrictions we place on builds are self enforced. People have this perception that if they aren’t playing the absolute meta as voted by the majority then they are complete failures.

Truth is majority of people are in the meat and potatoe brackets of this game and are never going to play on a pro skill level where the margins of victory are determined by minor differences. Average player plays their D/D elementalist slightly more dogkitten than I play my staff bunker, so I am actually better.

So play staff bunker in PvP. I do all the time. Play D/D in dungeons. I did it when it was considered completely unviable like two years ago.

(And yes, this argument is somewhat contradictory since I am referencing the current meta and then saying kitten the meta. There is a point to it though)

MadRabbit.3179:

Senario.2038:

MadRabbit.3179:

Senario.2038:

MadRabbit.3179:

Outside of ice bow, you are only going to be missing a few might stacks in a staff PvE builf

And if you wanted to play Dagger Dagger in PvE and WvW where it is only just an “ok” build compared to staff?

Welcome to GW2 where only some builds are viable in certain game modes. Please take a ticket and form a line behind necros, mesmers, necromancers and all other classes.

Except Necros are exceptionally good in WvW and decent in PvE. Mesmers are the same. Why shouldn’t we have it so classes can be played to a decent amount within every game mode?

That is not quite true. Necros are pigeonholed into one build for WvW zerg and a couple others for roaming. The don’t have a spot in the current dungeon meta. Mesmers are only in WvW zergs for mainly stealth and portal bots; their illsions die too fast in zergs so their build variety is greatly limited. Thiefs and rangers have no representation in zergs.

The point is every class has limited application in different aspects of the game and are usually pigeonholed into one or two builds.

And it’s not like D/D is rendered obsolete or completely useless in dungeons. Most of the restrictions we place on builds are self enforced. People have this perception that if they aren’t playing the absolute meta as voted by the majority then they are complete failures.

Truth is majority of people are in the meat and potatoe brackets of this game and are never going to play on a pro skill level where the margins of victory are determined by minor differences. Average player plays their D/D elementalist slightly more dogkitten than I play my staff bunker, so I am actually better.

So play staff bunker in PvP. I do all the time. Play D/D in dungeons. I did it when it was considered completely unviable like two years ago.

(And yes, this argument is somewhat contradictory since I am referencing the current meta and then saying kitten the meta. There is a point to it though)

And what about fractals? Honestly fractals are the endgame for PvE right? Not dungeons. usually that unfortunately requires full zerker and you just cannot do that on Dagger Dagger because it simply isn’t safe.

Senario.2038:

And what about fractals? Honestly fractals are the endgame for PvE right? Not dungeons. usually that unfortunately requires full zerker and you just cannot do that on Dagger Dagger because it simply isn’t safe.

Fractals and dungeon meta aren’t the same. I run staff support in high level fractals with my guild, because they are actually hard enough to justify them.

And once again, there is plenty of builds that aren’t going to be used in high level fractals. It’s just the nature of the game.

MadRabbit.3179:

Senario.2038:

And what about fractals? Honestly fractals are the endgame for PvE right? Not dungeons. usually that unfortunately requires full zerker and you just cannot do that on Dagger Dagger because it simply isn’t safe.

Fractals and dungeon meta aren’t the same. I run staff support in high level fractals with my guild, because they are actually hard enough to justify them.

And once again, there is plenty of builds that aren’t going to be used in high level fractals. It’s just the nature of the game.

And that is very unfortunate because pvp based nerfs don’t do any favors for build diversity in other modes =/ and essentially tells the player “balance concerns will not be addressed unless you play PvP” for the most part. I don’t find Staff Ele all that fun, I put up with it but I don’t enjoy it as much as fighting close up and it is extremely unfortunate that my favorite playstyle on ele is getting nerfed for a gamemode I could care less about. It just straight up feels bad to have to play a certain weapon because other options are not viable due to other game modes.

This game was not made for 5v5 sPvP. If they really wanted to promote a competitive mode they really should not base it off a generic esport setup that will not take off because it is the same as every other PC game. World v World is incredibly unique and I’m surprised they aren’t pushing it at all.

Raven.9603:

Taldren.7523:

That’s funny because they nerfed IceBow over PvE. They also nerfed RTL over PvE because you were getting places you shouldn’t. They also nerfed powerful aura over PvE. Shall I go on? PvE has done more harm to PvP than the other way around. PvE is easy, there is always a way to be useful … in sPvP there is now only D/D Cele or you melt.

Any source on RTL? I’m against that nerf totally, but I remember it being an intentional nerf to combat mobility (wvw/pvp).

OP: you can do fractals 50 in non-zerker rares. damage nerfs dont matter. damage output in HoT is supposedly even less relevant. never in the history of the game have eles not been wanted in every game mode. this doesnt change that.

I think he was referring to earlier nerf rtl received – the one that increased Z-axis drop rate.

OP made the topic in general forum, I suggest future discussion to be made there
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Why-not-have-skill-sets-fror-each-mode/first#post5533004