guy said this to me tonight.
he had an engineer…
I laughed a bit at this and then i realized hes right IF we both go down at the same time.
ele has a pretty big heal by turning to mist.
then can turn that offensive trait wize as well.
But i explained to him that if an ele is downed there nothing they can do to stop the stomp.
Engineer downed state is crap….yeah Elementalist sucks, but that’s mainly because mist form adds up your downed penalty. Engineers have 1) an autoattack like everyone else; 2) an ability that PULLS the enemy to them; 3) an ability that blows up around them, knocking back any enemies around them; 4) self heal. Against melee mobs, their 2 is useless, and they have to resort to hoping their 3 comes up in time for them to knock back their enemy so they have a reprieve to heal before its on them interrupting the heal again. Against ranged they can pull the enemy towards them (which interrupts their attack for a second), and is then stuck in the same boat as before. The problem is when they knock the enemy back, the enemy can keep attacking from that range. The kit would be better if the heal didn’t go on a 10 year cooldown after being interrupted. But, since it does, it isn’t very good at all, as you at any time only have about 2 seconds to heal before its interrupted by your attacker.
Mist form at least gives you an opportunity to hide behind a wall to heal up, or get someone else around you time to grab threat so you can heal, or even get you into water so you can chill on the surface to heal (if applicable).
Not saying ele’s downed state is great, but it is definitely better than engi’s.
Engi downed 2 does still interrupt a stomp though. That’s the important point. Yes, it’s still pretty bad, but put both characters in the same scenario about to be stomped, one profession can do something about that, one can’t. That can be all the difference between backup arriving and saving you, or not.
It has been said that the ele downed state as well as main hand dagger skills are in for a re-work/revision.
I would find the exact quote from the dev, but I haven’t the time right now.
Engi downed 2 does still interrupt a stomp though. That’s the important point. Yes, it’s still pretty bad, but put both characters in the same scenario about to be stomped, one profession can do something about that, one can’t. That can be all the difference between backup arriving and saving you, or not.
downed state 2 does NOT interrupt a stomp. It’s a root, thats it. It might prolong it if the stomper isnt ontop of you but that’s about it. At least the engi can knock people away.
Engi downed 2 does still interrupt a stomp though. That’s the important point. Yes, it’s still pretty bad, but put both characters in the same scenario about to be stomped, one profession can do something about that, one can’t. That can be all the difference between backup arriving and saving you, or not.
downed state 2 does NOT interrupt a stomp. It’s a root, thats it. It might prolong it if the stomper isnt ontop of you but that’s about it. At least the engi can knock people away.
Right…if the enemy is on you, it does not interrupt them. It only interrupts if they travel.
The engi can knock people way at the same time the elementalist can mist form. They are both the respective class’s 3, so there is a lengthy initial cooldown on it.
Engi downed 2 does still interrupt a stomp though.
downed state 2 does NOT interrupt a stomp. It’s a root, thats it. It might prolong it if the stomper isnt ontop of you but that’s about it. At least the engi can knock people away.
Engineer’s pull does interrupt. Elementalist’s root does not.
I’m not sure to be honest. I want to say yes, but I would have to try it out. I’ve only WvW’d on my engi a few times, and didn’t care for it (as I was not grenade spec).
Engineer 2nd skill does interrupt, even if enemy is standing still next to you.
That said, the elementalist has the worst downed state at the moment.
Mist form is good, but you have to get there, and it keeps on adding rez sickness.
Engi downed 2 does still interrupt a stomp though.
downed state 2 does NOT interrupt a stomp. It’s a root, thats it. It might prolong it if the stomper isnt ontop of you but that’s about it. At least the engi can knock people away.
Engineer’s pull does interrupt. Elementalist’s root does not.
Ele is only class that can’t readily interrupt a stomp then I guess. So, ele downed state is the worst in a PvP situation (more specifically 1v1. Both classes are screwed if two people try to stomp them simultaneously, whereas classes like mesmer and thief can escape multiple stompers).
I think the downed mechanic is really cool theory wise, but combined with the stomp mechanic adds an extra layer of complexity that needs to be balanced, which is annoying. Perhaps if the root interrupted initially as well? But then the elementalist clearly overtakes the engi.
Engi downed 2 does still interrupt a stomp though.
downed state 2 does NOT interrupt a stomp. It’s a root, thats it. It might prolong it if the stomper isnt ontop of you but that’s about it. At least the engi can knock people away.
Engineer’s pull does interrupt. Elementalist’s root does not.
Ele is only class that can’t readily interrupt a stomp then I guess. So, ele downed state is the worst in a PvP situation (more specifically 1v1. Both classes are screwed if two people try to stomp them simultaneously, whereas classes like mesmer and thief can escape multiple stompers).
I think the downed mechanic is really cool theory wise, but combined with the stomp mechanic adds an extra layer of complexity that needs to be balanced, which is annoying. Perhaps if the root interrupted initially as well? But then the elementalist clearly overtakes the engi.
the ele downed state is the worst at preventing a stomp.
Its OK IF you both go down at the same time. Its not great its just ok.
i hope you guys realize they fixed the downed sickness bug for mist form about a week ago… ele’s downed abilities still suck, but they don’t kill you now.
i hope you guys realize they fixed the downed sickness bug for mist form about a week ago… ele’s downed abilities still suck, but they don’t kill you now.
Not sure what “bug” you are talking about, but right now every time you use downed 3, it adds a stack to your downed state when you drop again, making you start with less health than before. This is to prevent people from chain resetting their downed state indefinitely i’m sure, but it still happens.
i hope you guys realize they fixed the downed sickness bug for mist form about a week ago… ele’s downed abilities still suck, but they don’t kill you now.
Not sure what “bug” you are talking about, but right now every time you use downed 3, it adds a stack to your downed state when you drop again, making you start with less health than before. This is to prevent people from chain resetting their downed state indefinitely i’m sure, but it still happens.
Worse still, if you are in mist form you are counted as “up” so if something dies while you’re mist forming, or if someone burns their hard rez on you, then it will have no effect, and you will stay dead.
A friend of mine pretty much cost us a lupicus kill this way. I was a half second from reviving him an an engineer. The engineer WP’d back, and my friend mist formed away, leaving me to be the only alive person in the room <.<
i hope you guys realize they fixed the downed sickness bug for mist form about a week ago… ele’s downed abilities still suck, but they don’t kill you now.
Not sure what “bug” you are talking about, but right now every time you use downed 3, it adds a stack to your downed state when you drop again, making you start with less health than before. This is to prevent people from chain resetting their downed state indefinitely i’m sure, but it still happens.
Worse still, if you are in mist form you are counted as “up” so if something dies while you’re mist forming, or if someone burns their hard rez on you, then it will have no effect, and you will stay dead.
A friend of mine pretty much cost us a lupicus kill this way. I was a half second from reviving him an an engineer. The engineer WP’d back, and my friend mist formed away, leaving me to be the only alive person in the room <.<
Not too sure about that, when I was in sPvP earlier I was down’d (Managed to to get into mist form!) and as I was in mist form the other guy was stomped and it rally’d me while I was in mist form.
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And Engis “Get over here!” downed skill does interrupt, it also has great utility like stopping someone else get down’d or pulling people that are low health too you so you can set off your bomb, kill them and get the counter stomp. Not saying it always happens but it can do.
In the greater blob of things, there is only the zerg.
Kittens, Kittens everywhere!
Um, if you go down at the same time as an Engineer, either you will both get up at the same time, or he will get up first because you used Vapour Form.
As for who has the better downed state in PvP, that would be the Engineer. By a few light years.
no if both go down at the same time and are nuking eachother, maybe there is a better down strat here than just trying to nuke eachother down…, when i get to low health i mist and come back and more than half and they are still well under half
then the nuke war starts again and i kill them.
.
if i take the trait that allow mist form to do damage then i can do about 3k damage while im at it.
i hope you guys realize they fixed the downed sickness bug for mist form about a week ago… ele’s downed abilities still suck, but they don’t kill you now.
Not sure what “bug” you are talking about, but right now every time you use downed 3, it adds a stack to your downed state when you drop again, making you start with less health than before. This is to prevent people from chain resetting their downed state indefinitely i’m sure, but it still happens.
Worse still, if you are in mist form you are counted as “up” so if something dies while you’re mist forming, or if someone burns their hard rez on you, then it will have no effect, and you will stay dead.
A friend of mine pretty much cost us a lupicus kill this way. I was a half second from reviving him an an engineer. The engineer WP’d back, and my friend mist formed away, leaving me to be the only alive person in the room <.<
Not too sure about that, when I was in sPvP earlier I was down’d (Managed to to get into mist form!) and as I was in mist form the other guy was stomped and it rally’d me while I was in mist form.
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And Engis “Get over here!” downed skill does interrupt, it also has great utility like stopping someone else get down’d or pulling people that are low health too you so you can set off your bomb, kill them and get the counter stomp. Not saying it always happens but it can do.
It will occasionally work. But in my experience its less than 5% of the time. Seeing as every time it happens im actually surprised that it worked properly. Rather than the inverse.
I’ve gotten away time and again with mist form, I like it how it is. True our #2 may not interrupt but in the heat of battle there are many interrupts occuring that allow us to get to #3.
Stomping is often something thats left neglected due to being under attack themselves in an even fight; I tend to get people nuking me down as opposed to stomping and this is where #3 shines. As soon as that timer comes up voila I’m back to “just dead” health, in a less convenient location for them and all their efforts for naught.
As soon as that timer comes up voila I’m back to “just dead” health, in a less convenient location for them and all their efforts for naught.
just to clarify for everyone, using vapor form does NOT return you to “just dead” health after you return to the downed state.
For example, on the 1st down you have 50% health in the bar. If no one attacks you, and you use vapor form, when you return to downed you’ll only have roughly 40% hp (I don’t know the exact amount). Thus, the skill actually HURTS you (this is a consequence of it counting as a 2nd downed state).
Note, this can be harmful or beneficial depending upon how you use it.
Case 1: You’re downed, and no one is attacking you. You channel ability #4 increasing your health from 50% to 75%, but then someone comes along to stomp you forcing you to use vapor form. 3 seconds later, viola, back to 40% hp. This is BAD.
Case 2: You’re downed along with a bad guy. You’re both spamming your #1 attacks into each other. You get down to 10% hp as does your foe, you pop vapor form and upon returning to the downed state have 40% hp (compared to his 10%). You resume spam #1, kill him and rally. This is GOOD.
Nerfedname – Elementalist
Legion of Anvil Rock [XXIV] – Anvil Rock
case 1 is true in pve not in pvp.
i had a situation last night where a guy did not know how to stomp or didnt want to.
i mist formed 5 or 6 times and always came back with the same health.
His pet was constantly attacking me so i could not heal.
That would have went on longer but i got 500 points and won the match.
he could not kill me before the mist form came back.
I have some true stories too:
*I captured all the points while in downed state. Moved around the map in mist form. It was 8v1 but the opponents just couldn’t kill me.
*I specced healing recently. With enough healing power you rally yourself after mist form.
If only our immobilize interrupted too it would be a great downed stat… It is annoying how mist form quickly builds down penalty though, but it is very useful at escaping to self-heal at times.
Tbh, the thing I hate more than the death at end is health reset. For example, I could be near full health, but am forced to use mist form to dodge an attack, but now when I go back to downed state I will be 50% Health, 25% Health, or Dead. I’d rather Mist form keep your health the same, or even heal if you have the trait, and ignore downed penalty, but instead kill you if it is used too often. Aka, if you use it 3 times in a row you still die, but no longer counts as downed penalty.
Still, as far as PvE goes, it works good enough for me.
I have some true stories too:
*I captured all the points while in downed state. Moved around the map in mist form. It was 8v1 but the opponents just couldn’t kill me.
*I specced healing recently. With enough healing power you rally yourself after mist form.
well the wiki is wrong or the down state mist form is broken in pvp. or the damaging mist trait breaks the down penalty.
I have some true stories too:
*I captured all the points while in downed state. Moved around the map in mist form. It was 8v1 but the opponents just couldn’t kill me.
*I specced healing recently. With enough healing power you rally yourself after mist form.
well the wiki is wrong or the down state mist form is broken in pvp. or the damaging mist trait breaks the down penalty.
vapor form does not reduce your returning health any longer in spvp
If you use Vapur Form while you are both downed, the Engineer will simply heal, while you will exit Vapour closer to death.
If you’re both at 10% hp, he can’t heal fast enough in the 3 seconds of mist form to get to 40ish % hp like you can from resetting the downed state. You’ll still win.
vapor form does not reduce your returning health any longer in spvp
I’m about 100% certain it still does, that it’s intended, and that the wiki is not wrong.
I’ll test this in the mists later if I can, it’s hard to test it in live sPvP cause you get stomped so fast usually I rarely get to even USE vapor form, so yah…
Nerfedname – Elementalist
Legion of Anvil Rock [XXIV] – Anvil Rock
OK update… (in spvp at least) it MOST DEFINATELY brings you back to raised health level after the #3 mist form downed state. Tried it at lunch. Its about 75%, enough that if you get to ally they can rez you in a couple seconds after being virtually within a sliver of dying.
Not to mention it guarantees a win if you are both downed.
I average one mist form per match, so it is highly useful, maybe because my hot join teams seem to be the losers and generally suck that I end up in this position is a factor and the pressure I bring to bear puts them off their immediate stomps.
I just started ele a few days ago and only I seem to know this??? No wonder the complaints.
It has been said that the ele downed state as well as main hand dagger skills are in for a re-work/revision.
I would find the exact quote from the dev, but I haven’t the time right now.
Uh, yeah I definitely would be interested in seeing that quote if you could find it. Ele downed state is the number one thing they need to fix about the class. I would say number two is our under water damage. Why are they reworking main hand dagger? I really enjoy main hand dagger and see nothing wrong with it… please tell me it wouldn’t turn into another nerf for the class….
*Edit – nm I found the post you were talking about:
