Guild Wars 2

Here’s the complete build I will be talking about: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fdAQFAUlUUpErlcxzLseNCbBFymeRROlq85IEgkC-TJBHwAFuAAAeAA+2fAZZAA

I’ve spent countless hours theorycrafting different variations of the popular celestial rifle build weighting each builds’s strengths and weaknesses, but I’ll just compare my build to the more popular 60044 variation

My build has:
- more power (1875>1840 [assumed power runes])
- more condition damage (613 > 438)
- more toughness and healing power (+200 each) – regen 185 -> 210; br 139->149
- more dodge potentiality (yes, even without vigor math below)*
- superior disengage and surviving mechanism with heal reset + elixir S @25%hp

Popular 60044 has:
- little bit more burst dps due to higher ferocity & power wrench
- little bit more CC with lower cd magnet
- 4 second lower cooldown block
- toolbelt recharge @25%

in regards to speedy kits vs power shoes: yes swiftness grants faster movement, but being a boon can also be ripped, corrupted or stolen. Also, dat Spirit Watch Orb Runner Pro

Now from my experience the strengths of my build far overweight those of the 60044 due to a number of reasons
- toolbelt skills have low cooldowns – no need to go tools or get the near useless recharge trait (yes I think it’s nearly useless, because @25% hp you most likely need to use some defensive CD to survive… which my build provides)
- lower cd on toolkit skills such as gearshield is nice, but our more dangerous opponents – necro and mesmer have unblockable attacks + it’s already on such low cooldown that -20% reduction grants only 4 seconds shave.
- I don’t have any proof on this, but considering my build has more power and condition damage and since on cele rifle most attacks (even with int sigil) are not crits, I’m pretty sure that my build has atleast the same if not more dps as the 60044 one.

Also one more note about the rune and sigil choices: I choce adventure runes and didnt go for example scavenging for a few reasons:
1) they’re bugged
2) leeching sigil is better even if 4 bonus worked (every 9s 974dmg + heal OP)
3) I needed the extra dodge and usually right before heal you’re in need of that
4) if I used both scavenging and leeching there would be overlaps, If I used energy sigil there would be times where it goes on cd when I’m with full endurance

TL;DR:
From my personal experience I prefer 60440, it suits my playstyle better, which is nade focused, but on the other hand I’m not a top tier engi _

Maybe there is some secret why 4 in tools is better that I’m not getting so I’m gonna ask from you guys: what do you think?

*ENDURANCE MATH:

60044 has 60% vigor uptime, this means 1 dodge every 7 seconds or 4.28 dodges over 30 seconds

60440 has no vigor, this means 1 dodge every 10 seconds or 3 dodges over 30 seconds, HOWEVER you get+2 extra dodges, because healing turret can be used twice in 30 seconds => 5 dodges total in 30 seconds!

Adrenaline Pump will put this math closer to even, however usage of toolbelt skills is mostly situational and some times used when with full endurance.
One more note: vigor being a boon can be ripped or corrupted, while endurance gained from runes cannot be negated.

From my understanding, the more popular version is a 60062 build, though I could see how 60044 would be nice too.

One primary disadvantage to your build is that you have zero sources of protection. You should at least slot something like protective shield or protection injection. In particular, the latter is a much better choice than self-regulating defences, which can actually prevent you from healing yourself or cause an enemy to force a decap of a node.

Though the 3 point trait in inventions is nice, I also wouldn’t underestimate the tool belt recharge reduction. This can give you back your stun breakers, which can easily save you more than a healing skill recharge will.

You could also take both adventurer runes and speedy kit/invigorating speed. That’s even more dodges than one option alone, and you’d have a lower cooldown on your stun breaker to boot.

I’m also a bit confused by the sigil of intelligence. Is that just to proc incendiary powder? It seems to be a bit of a waste to me, especially considering you have the grenade kit which can proc the trait more easily. Without a doom sigil, your pressure you’d be able to apply to the opponent could diminish severely because you only have one source of poison in the grenade kit, which has a significant cooldown. Keeping a higher poison uptime makes it much easier to dislodge builds that are reliant on constant healing for their sustain (i.e. warrior’s healing signet, typically d/d ele).

You’re also designating an entire trait to obtain ~100 power in the form of energized armor, which is arguably not the best value especially when you could have more frequent use of things like pry bar and magnet, or more dodges via invigorating speed.

Other than that, there’s the entire fact that the absence of strength runes will eat heavily into your damage, both condition and direct damage. Though you exchange that for sustain instead via the leeching sigil. But one of the reasons celestial builds became so common is because they could maintain significant damage output via might while still having a well-rounded stat line. If you remove all your might, the damage can take a nose-dive, unless of course you can coordinate with allies in group fights to keep high group might uptime.

In any case though, I think it’s still a fairly solid build (minus the self-regulating defences trait). If nothing else, it would probably exhibit higher sustain than a 60044 build, though I don’t think it would outperform holding a node compared to other builds. I could see it working well in a team comp, although I still imagine the garden variety 60062 having an edge in PUGs.

Though if you’re going to use orb running on spirit watch to market the build, I’d include rocket boots. A super speed→rocket boots combo will beat out just about anything, +25% passive move speed or no.

My comments on the build:

You trait for Turret Knocbacks, yet over-value Adventure Runes as if you will always pick it up, and never detonate it.

You under-value Invigorating Speed as if it is impossible to get swiftness from sources other than Speedy Kits, occasionally providing increased vigor.

In a 4 Tools build, using all the Toolbelt skills on cooldown will be impossible, but if this was done, it would result in 112.73 Endurance per minute. Factor in that toolbelt skills reset at 25%, and it’s entirely realistic that Adrenaline Pump gives an extra dodge every 30 seconds on average.

With that in mind, 60044 is ahead on dodges, vs. 60440, even without getting swiftness flying around from allies (Air Attunement, Steal, Pack Runes), self-Pack Rune procs, etc. And that’s even if you pretend you will be actually picking up Healing Turret on cooldown to maximize Adventure Runes.

Realistically, you aren’t even picking up Healing Turret on 60440 with Turret Knockbacks traited, you are going to occasionally get extra vigor procs if you are 60044.

60440 will have at it’s best, less dodges per minute than 60044 at its realistic average. Half the time, you will have noticeably more dodges on 60044!

You’re completely ignoring the far superior damage/utility you get from other rune choices. Adventure Runes has a big opportunity cost. Compared to Pack Runes, 6% permanent crit and 60% uptime of AoE Fury, Might, and Swiftness while in combat. So much critical chance that you can afford to get Doom Sigil instead of Intelligence, which is amazing.

OR, Hoelbrak’s blanket 20% reduction to conditions which is ridiculously powerful on Engineer. This option requires Intelligence Sigil, same as yours, but doesn’t require the Engineer to bring Leg Mods, and instead frees up Power Wrench or Protection Injection.

http://de.gw2skills.net/editor/?fdAQFAUlUUpErdexkLseNCbBNyx8GRuxq85IEgkC-TJRHwAEeAAs2fAwFA4YZAA

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fdAQFAUlUUpErdexkLseNCbBNyx0GRuxq85IEgkC-TJBHwAAeAABuAAl2fAZZAA

^This way, you’re free to detonate healing turret and knock people around without reducing your Adventure Rune procs, by using Energy instead (far superior amount of dodges) You get that much needed reduction to Immobilize and all other conditions, all by sacrificing Sigil of Leeching, and the condition damage loss from Adventure Runes.

These are the two Celestial Rifle builds that I would most recommend, not including the times when you modify your build to counter-comp, such as taking 60062 Prot Injection vs. Hammer warriors, or both Leg Mods & Hoelbrak vs to counter immob spam from a Sword Mesmer, Panic Strike Thief, two Longbow Warriors, and an Entangle Ranger.

Something the 60440 build lacks that you don’t take into account is the immobilize reduction. Without Elixir S, Leg Mods, Hoelbrak, or reduced CD on Gear Shield, immobilize wreaks havoc way more on the 60440 build than the 60044 with Hoelbrak or Leg Mods.

Really, I would only run 60440 (if at all) like this:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fdAQFAUlUUpErlcxzLseNCbBFyZcRR2xq85IEgkC-TJBHwAAeAADuAAl2fAZZAA

Gotta have some form of Immobilize Reduction, whether it be Hoelbrak or Leg Mods, which isn’t accessible.

The instant protection when you get hit definitely will save you more than having 110 power, which you mostly get back from having Hoelbrak over Adventure runes.

Going Protection Injection over Self-Regulating Defenses is a personal choice, too. It would give you amazing protection uptime.

But in the end, running Inventions is simply sacrificing offense for defense, when you compare the two finished builds. (60440 vs 60044)

Chaith.8256:

Really, I would only run 60440 (if at all) like this:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fdAQFAUlUUpErlcxzLseNCbBFyZcRR2xq85IEgkC-TJBHwAAeAADuAAl2fAZZAA

Gotta have some form of Immobilize Reduction, whether it be Hoelbrak or Leg Mods, which isn’t accessible.

The instant protection when you get hit definitely will save you more than having 110 power, which you mostly get back from having Hoelbrak over Adventure runes.

Going Protection Injection over Self-Regulating Defenses is a personal choice, too. It would give you amazing protection uptime.

But in the end, running Inventions is simply sacrificing offense for defense, when you compare the two finished builds. (60440 vs 60044)

i quite agree with this, however i feel like a huge issue with that build specifically is that energy and int sigils are completely at odds with each other. energy wants to be procced when youre up kitten creek and a dodge buys you time, or what have you. int wants to be procced the instant before you land jump shot (or whatever else). the 2 cases arent mutually exclusive, but they are often at odds.

in a build with vigor-on-swiftness, the dodge regen has a delay compared to energy sigil. and because of that, you can keep most of the benefits that energy sigil would provide without the downside of a common major conflict with int sigil.

if some other sigil became meta besides int… well i love auto medical response.

@Yams
Might duration bonus runes aren’t that great on cele engi I find, because the only sources of might would be battle and whatever procs the runes may give (1 or 2). Sigil of intelligence is simply more damage because you only really have enough dps when you are able to crit with your key skills (pry bar, jump shot, shrapnel grenades)

Self-Regulating Defenses and Invetions 3 alone aren’t that great but together they synergize VERY well especially with the extra health and healing power from celestial stats as there’s quite a buffer on its proc, like 5.4k ish HP which is more than enough to survive while you heal. The invul will give you enough time to find a safer place out of line of sight. It has saved my kitten so many times during matches and I think it’s pretty underrated. The only time it wasn’t that good was when I was fighting condi ranger and necro and I had 12 bleeds and poison when it procced. Although at that point I would have been dead on any variation of the cele rifle build.

Ok so why not protection injection? Well, it’s nice on some occasions, like against mesmer dazes and knockback shatter combo or power necro fears, but those moments are few and far between. And in the end, the amount of damage mitigated will most likely be atleast the same if not more with self-regulating defenses equipped.

Yes you’re right that the value of energized armor is highly debatable, but I’ve found to have enough defense and lacking a bit on the damage part, so energized armor seemed like the right choice. That extra +110 power really helps quite a lot: in raw numbers it’s not much but if you do the math 1875/1765 = 1,062 so basically +6% more power damage .