Guild Wars 2

Maybe something is wrong on my end, but the 4 pages of replies on this topic have suddenly disappeared.

That’s ok, the answer to you question is Prec/Power/Crit DMG

CptCosmic.3156:

condition damage always scales the same on every ability. you just dont have the proper equipment for a condition damage build.

That isn’t true. The damage formulas for each condition effect are up on the wiki. Poison scales miserably.

Level + 0.1 * Condition Damage per second.

I prefer crit and condition damage together.
There are a couple of condition-damage on crit traits. One procs bleeds and the other a short burn.

I use conditions to allow some “sneakiness” to the damage. If someone peaks over a wall and loses half their health instantly, they are going to back off and heal very soon.

If the initial damage is smaller they will eat more grenades and then frequently die before realising just how much damage they are taking from the burn and bleed.

Bleed isn’t a lot of damage, but its also the sole remaining condition that stacks intensity at this point.

It also helps to be able to tell where someone is when they retreat out of sight from the bleed tics.

If I am wrong, can someone point me at hard numbers that determine the power coefficient on grenades vs crit and condition damage?

draculthemad.6273:

I use conditions to allow some “sneakiness” to the damage. If someone peaks over a wall and loses half their health instantly, they are going to back off and heal very soon.

If the initial damage is smaller they will eat more grenades and then frequently die before realising just how much damage they are taking from the burn and bleed.

People have done this to me in WvW alot. It is sneaky. And I always fall for it.

Ok, I just did some napkin level math.

To get 1 point of damage on Grenade and Shrapnel Grenade:
~5 on grenade, ~4.5ish on Shrapnel.

To get 1 point of Bleed on Shrapnel however, you only need:
~1.4 ConDmg

So the break even point on ConDmG is very quick, especially if you factor in the on-crit Conditions engies also get.

draculthemad.6273:

Ok, I just did some napkin level math.

To get 1 point of damage on Grenade and Shrapnel Grenade:
~5 on grenade, ~4.5ish on Shrapnel.

To get 1 point of Bleed on Shrapnel however, you only need:
~1.4 ConDmg

So the break even point on ConDmG is very quick, especially if you factor in the on-crit Conditions engies also get.

Right, but bleed is the only condition damage with such luxury.

Apply that to poison, the only other thing there is, and it isn’t so good.

If the bleed was more common, maybe if it had no cooldown ,and if there was a burn grenade, I could see it that way.

But simply put, only 1 grenade benefits most from condition damage, and that is shrapnel grenade.

Others benefit more from either power, or expertise.

OK,

1 grenade every 5 seconds is going to be a shrapnel grenade.
That puts just it by itself within a dead heat for power, on the single bleed it procs per-grenade.

The difference is then made up by the improvement on just the bleed trait if you have high enough crit (90% is reachable, self buffed), THEN you add the burn trait and that pushes it over.

Thats assuming equal amounts of power or condmg, JUST spamming shrapnel by itself with a condmg build.

Edit: the dot on poison isnt its primary purpose. Its heal denial and the combo field.

If you want to build a glass cannon grenade as primary/only weapon.
Crit and crit damage as your primary stat focus is obvious.
Power is secondary. As its also attained via might with ease. You will get larger gains from crit and crit damage, which will scale with weapon, vul, and power from might, as well as gear.
+cond damage is tertiary. Its value on shrapnel should not be understated. however, the raw damage on toolbelt skill, and 1 is your main focus.
Additionally, doors, siege weapons, etc do not take condition damage. (not even burning, which they totally should) Granted, they don’t crit either.

Grenades for a p/p are still very viable and powerful. However the shift stat priority, causes a shift in use. obviously in this case, toolbelt is still for burst, but 2 for an additional bleed is good. Attrition as people have stated.
I don’t have any trouble with mesmers cleansing. or anyone. Application of cond far exceeds anyones removal of them. And coated bullets and general p/p aoe makes short work of illusions, pets, turrets, etc. In fact, only serves to increase my damage.
Stat priority for p/p should be prec/cond/vit. Again, might giving power/cond. Crit buffing the power/raw damage, and on crit abilities/sigils.

Also you could, do a p/p focus build, with grenade secondary. that adds +cond on explosives. 6% chance of bleed on explosion, 33% chance of 3s bleed on crit, and 33% chance of 2s burn on crit. All of which would be applied to grenades. requires 20 points in explosives. Same crit/cond/vit/toughness priority of p/p. Not really recommended honestly, as 20/30 is fairly glass cannon, and focusing on cond for a purely offensive build, is not ideal imho.