Guild Wars 2

Hello there.

I wrote a little thread here a couple of days back, where I discussed possible problems for the future of the Engineer, and more accurately its Scrapper specialization. While a lot of people disagreed with my reasoning that the engineer is technically weaker then most other classes, I’d like to start a new thread looking at some ideas for alternatives that can, ultimately, change the class for the better. Not break it apart, but change it.

Some people feel the engineer is in a really good place, and needs no change, while others feel it’s the most broken profession in the game. Share your experiences as to why, and suggest a change or two that can fix it.

I agree that it is in a good place.

My biggest issue is with the bugs. Fixing key bugs would be a massive improvement. Then again, that can be said for any profession.

My second biggest issue would be to have some traits that I feel are almost never used, removed, and some trait aspects that were removed, to be returned. Now I only speak of my experience and discussions with engineers in my guild or that are on my server in WvW that I talk to.

I have never met anyone who says they use soothing detonation, medical dispersion field, health insurance, or gadgeteer, for example. Yet I know many people, including myself, who enjoyed, and regularly used pistol piercing traits, the old gadget trait, or elixir infused bombs.

Now then. To start things off, I’ll add some of my frustrations and possible solutions.

The Class Mechanic Problem

As it stands, the engineer has two unique class mechanics. The first being our Tool Belt, and the other being our Kits. While I love the concept and idea behind this, it is somewhat broken in my opinion. Firstly, the tool belt is very weak, compared to other class mechanics in the game, and not very interesting at all. Unlike every other profession, there are no “improvements” that can be made to it, other than using the Tools specialization, and even those improvements are quite lackluster and sub-par. Whereas other class mechanics have various traits and improvements over several specializations, ours is just… not there at all almost.

Secondly, the kits we have are too strong. A lot of our utilities simply aren’t good enough to compete with the kits, and are only strong in niche situations. However, paradoxically the kits cannot be made weaker without making the profession as a whole weaker, nor can our other utilities be made much stronger. Why? Because for the time being, our viability and strength is reliant upon using a lot of kits, and the other utilities can’t be made stronger out of balance concerns.

As it stands, the engineer is on a finely balanced scale, whereas we’re capable, but still extremely messed up.

The Class Mechanic Suggestion

We’ve just been given a new specialization, the Scrapper. I’ve tried it out for several weeks now, and while I agree it does well in sPvP and WvW, it is sadly very underwhelming in PvE and World. I’ve come to realize this is because of the aforementioned problem with our class mechanic. As of now, we are the only profession whose elite specialization don’t change or completely revolutionize how its core class mechanic works. The necromancer has its reaper shroud, the warrior has its berserker-mode, the guardian virtues are now physical, etc. What changes does the Scrapper bring to our core mechanics? To our Tool Belt, or our Kits? Can we strengthen our tool belt skills, like the dragonhunter can his virtues? Can we overcharge our kits, to make them stronger like the tempest? No.

We’ve been given a function gyro with an extreme niche usability. That is it.

To the point, and suggestion on how to fix this, overall, I believe the engineer needs a complete overhaul. It works, yes, but try playing the revenant and you’ll see how much different a finely tuned class feels compared to the mess that engineers is and have been since our introduction.

Yes, a complete overhaul could risk destroying the class altogether, but could also end up making the class so much better for it. Great rewards, comes from taking great risks.

I believe, for instance, that a weapon swap can greatly benefit the scrapper, without necessarily weakening or overpowering us as a whole. That being, of course, at the cost of at least one kit.

Further on, our kits could have it’s own bar, like the elementalist, limiting how many we can use. Why not? Does anyone know why they didn’t want this at launch?

I don’t know how to fix this, all I know is that it needs a fix.

coglin.1867:

I agree that it is in a good place.

My biggest issue is with the bugs. Fixing key bugs would be a massive improvement. Then again, that can be said for any profession.

My second biggest issue would be to have some traits that I feel are almost never used, removed, and some trait aspects that were removed, to be returned. Now I only speak of my experience and discussions with engineers in my guild or that are on my server in WvW that I talk to.

I have never met anyone who says they use soothing detonation, medical dispersion field, health insurance, or gadgeteer, for example. Yet I know many people, including myself, who enjoyed, and regularly used pistol piercing traits, the old gadget trait, or elixir infused bombs.

Every class will always have its bugs. It’s not the bugs I want to pick a fight with here, it’s rather the fact that the class in its whole (while very much functional) is.. rushed and incomplete. Everything we have is a copy-paste from something else, and not even our class-mechanic is anything really… good.

With a weak foundation, even the most well-thought out buildings will eventually crumble. Without fixing some of the core issues with the class, how can they improve it in the future?

I am about to share my opinion, it may make you guys mad i am sorry. I just wanted to share my experiences, opinions, and mindset on engineer.

First off, i am a very spiritual and compassion guy, i have a guilty conscience and follow my feelings to help others.

I played world of warcraft and played a shaman because i love supporting and being versatile. Sorta a damage / healing, support / utility.

WHEN i first started playing the engineer i felt like my class was lacking because other classes had more survivability. or massive damage. I always look at other classes with jealousy and felt engineers were weak or didn’t fit the meta.

Maybe in previous patches that’s how it was. I don’t know. I only played for a bout 2 months. I have a level 80 charr engineer whom i love and only play that 1 profession. I tried to level a necromancer and a warrior but i lost interest. The engineer keeps my attention and i love it.

Now why do i love the engineer ? Well as i experimented with builds and skills, i learned that engineers have a lot of the same skills other classes have, but the other classes use them selfishly or solo wise. Engineers have a lot of cool tricks and neat skills.

Before i get into a engineer philosophy rant i want to talk about the scrapper.

The scrapper offers defense and team support skills. If you don’t want to be a team player or need the defense, the entire line may be useless for you.

I know people expected scrapper to be a solo heavy hitting killing spree solo bad kitten . But it didn’t turn out that way.

We get function gyro, which in my opinion – is awesome – because we can rez an ally and continue fight and moving. It’s basically a short ranged click to rez and then leave the downed guy while you focus on fighting. That’s how i use it.

AGAIN if you don’t want to be a support specialist, then engineer is not very fun or exciting.

Now philosophy wise – Engineers have kits which you can use to do damage and cc and utility. I like flame thrower for sustain single target, and the knock back, flame field for allies, and blindness defense. Grenade kit deals heavy aoe damage, very good. Bomb kit is useful for it’s blast finisher tool belt skill (or turrets too) but bomb is not as good as grenade kit.

Elixir gun is not that great in pve because 1# fumble doesn’t usually work on bosses or champions. BUT in pvp fumble is AWESOME. Makes all attacks skills and spells 50% miss and also gives endurance reduction and some sustain condition damage from the bleed. The other skills have their use but i find elixir gun is good when your not focused and need to help another person in pvp.

Tool kit is useful for blocking attacks and dealing deceny melee damage. I think hammer is the upgrade version of tool kit. I wouldn’t recommend using tool kit with turrets, i tried that and the turrets die to fast. Tool kit is decent in pvp.

Elixirs are useful in their own way, but i never use them with hgh. I use the rez one for a team rez if we need it, elixir s for stealth and defense, elixir x for the tool belt moa spell. and Elixir of rage with grenades to do a huge amount of 1# burst damage or drop 10 bombs on the enemy for massive clutch burst.

other things…

Tool belt trait is good if you need the endurance or if you build around the static bolt. But i agree, some of the traits are not very useful.

I use berserker armor and trying to get some defensive armor for raids (probably 60% zerk and 40% defense armor maybe vit healing and power)

I find toughness is not a very good stat. I can use a healing turret in 20 seconds with healing power to restore a good chunk of my health, and with dodges and moving i can wait another 20 seconds to heal . But with the vitality i can take a few big hits before i have to heal or with dodges i can manage.

Gyros…. i must say gyros are kind of weak, but only some are useful. I find stealth gyro and the curing condition gyro to be most useful in pve. PvP wise only stealth gyro is really useful barely anyways.

Gyros are like useful pets that perform some major effect before dying off. Like a totem on shaman wow :P

Oh and the key to playing engineer is to have decent damage for your self in pve, while having 1 or 2 ultility slots and your ultimate slot to swap out skills to support other players.

I know engineer is not fun being a support character, but i play it as that, and i don’t see it as weak. I study the situations and swap skills for the right situation. In sPvP if we had all our skills, we would be extremely OP

TLDR : Engineer feels like a support class more than a heavy power class, and i think they are fine in pve, but you need the mindset to play an engineer. They can build damage, but if you focus on damage, you miss out on a lot of their useful (team oriented) skills. Sorry for my ranting i hope people look at engineer more towards a support profession rather than a primary bad kitten character.

PS : i hate hammer in pve. It deals small packets of burst damage, but doesn’t deal massive sustain damage. And it’s more defensive oriented with it’s skills.

You might be right. I have always played ele for support but some time ago I created an engineer for fun. I hate steampunk, never liked machines, and really dislike potions. I still do. But…
The bloody class is perfect for me! It can do everything! I can support when it is necessary, debuff, or even deal good amount of damage. I can hold my own in pvp (still not fast enough with engi though) but I excel when I am with a good team and a support build.
Especially in wvw, mortar + elixir gun I can really make a difference in both dmg/debuff and support. But it needs much concentration and finger-killing button dancing. (Ele feels simple and easy now. I still use my Ele and Ranger)

I still hate the steampunk. Dislike machine-like features. I even do not like potins that much. But still can not quit playing this kitten class, even with all the bugs and imbalances. Why? Because like our friend said, it is about a certain mindset.

Don’t get me wrong. I’m not at all bashing the engineer, because I love it as well. I wouldn’t bother playing this game if it weren’t for my engineer. And my guild.

That’s not what I was after here though.

Most engineers I’ve ever talked to would agree that there is something off about our class. We have no core mechanic that is just ours.

Yes, we have the tool belt, but that is really nothing compared to the game-changers that necromancers, warriors, or even mesmers have to their classes (to pick a few). They’re simply some extra spells, most of which aren’t that interesting at all.

What I’d like to bring up here, are suggestions to what could make our class more unique and make more sense.

I suggested in another thread here, that we could bind different kits to different specializations, and have those specializations strengthen the playstyle of the different kits, while also still allowing synergy between them.

Explosives – Unlocks the grenades
Firearms – Unlocks the flamethrower
Inventions – Unlocks the bombs (with heals, maybe?)
Alchemy – Unlocks the elixir gun
Tools – Unlocks the Tool Kit
Scrapper – Maybe a weapon swap, to make it more comfortable without kits?

While the mortar could be available across all as the elite it is supposed to be.

From the first time engineers joined the betas, I always felt like this was their original train of thought when designing us, but never got to be done right.

It could promote more build diversity, allow people to play more to their playstyle, and shake things up a bit, to say the least.

Maybe it’s a good idea, maybe not, who knows.

Hello, this will be a long post. To be truthul, I was slightly irritated reading through how you described the engineer. The irritation isn’t specifically directed at you, but simply at the idea that someone feels this way about the Engineer, and that they’re trying to compare them to new specs that were specifically meant to bring underwhelming classes to the forefront of PvE.

Unfortunately I have to disagree on a lot of things. First of all, Engineer has almost always been a top contender. One reason it may not seem as they got all the fancy new things as other classes is because they already have those things.

Binding kits to separate specializations will completely hinder Engineers and take away all of the fun. One thing about Engineer is that they are literally able to do anything. If you would then have to go through the hassle of changing your traits just to equip a kit, it would make it the most annoying class to play because you can’t take advantage of the universal playstyle that is Engineer. It seems as if you describe almost every one of the Engineer’s utilities as “niche,” when that is literally the purpose of Engineer — to be able to use anything that is needed in the moment without having to swap classes.

In a way, the specializations are already set up that way. You have to go into Explosives to get the most out of grenades and bombs; you have to go into Firearms to get the most of flamethowers and rifles; you have to go into Alchemy to get the most out of Elixir gun…. That’s fine, but don’t make it so you can’t equip those kits at all unless you are inside one of the spec trees.

I’ve noticed I deal a very fair amount of damage on Scrapper, maybe not compared to other classes, and there’s a reason for that. There’s also a reason you don’t see a PvE Mesmer complaining about their damage when comparing themselves to a full zerk staff Ele spamming 10k/per hit meteor storms. To be honest, Flamethrower is actually a very good wep now, especially for solo play. The flamethrower trait paired with one in Scrapper will give perma 15+ stacks of might (at least when used with Rune of Strength) and 25 stacks in combat if used with Gain Might on crit foods.

Classes aren’t mean to be better or worse, or deal better or worse damage than other classes; but simply are supposed to be on equal footing. And I feel Engineer is still a top contender. Half of those gizmos are pretty bad, but there are also some really good ones.

For instance, “Bulwark Gyro,” redirects 50% of damage of all allies to itself. That may seem useless, but it’s instant cast and almost instantaneous effect once placed. Its toolbelt skill is an overwhelmingly large bubble that reflects projectiles (even if they are created inside the bubble. It lasts 5 seconds with a decent cooldown; and with some particular traits, it’s possible to cast it twice in a row. The gyro that spams whirling finishers can be dropped onto a water field for spam healing (although I never do).

My point is, Engi’s can stealth, stack might, has three water fields with common builds, and can now stack swiftness. They can also reflect with that gyro and Elixir U, and also with turret placement. They can stack Vuln and blind, as well as other conditions, can cure conditions on allies, and not to mention that they have a dozen stuns and dazes that can drop a defiance bar rather quickly, or keep a mob locked down.

Yes, their toolbelts may not be “on par with other classes’ F1~ skills,” but they more than make up for it. I use that giant shield bubble at Tequatl, and for 5 seconds, there is tranquility after the claws comes up and throws poison down. When it runs out, it’s all over.

If there were more people playing engi and utilizing all they have to offer, things would go much smoother (not just at teq, but in general). While everyone is spamming Reaper or Revenant as if they are more OP than any other class, I say let them.

You say that engineers don’t have a mechanic to call “ours,” but I say they do. They’re the only class that can stack might, stealth, swiftness, and various conditions by their lonesome without requiring someone else drop a specific type of field; they have all of them, even chaos fields now.

Now more than ever have I noticed the power of Engineers. I love scrapper because it takes the utility of engineers to a new level. I don’t care if I deal overall less damage than a class that is specifically meant to do damage. Engis are on their own scale of usefulness that doesn’t directly relate to any other class.

I can’t really believe you call Engi a mess “since introduction.” They have been the most overpowered class, at least in sPvP, for a while now. Even with scrapper, they’re literally unkillable in a 1vs1 with a Sentinel amulet on. I’ve actually been wanting to try a PvE condition build to see how that worked out, but anyways.

I can understand you see all the new dazzling things that are other classes, but Engineer is literally in it’s own bracket, incomparable to other classes for the simple fact that they take a little from each class and jumble it together into something that works well for everyone.

If Engineer changes come like the way you want, I can guarantee you will dislike it. Well, maybe I can’t, but I could most likely guarantee that I wouldn’t find them as enjoyable anymore. For the reason that they are a jack of all trades, and the only “upgrade” they can get is to specialize into one thing; one type of playstyle; which will ultimately remove that Jack factor for them and make a lot of people upset.

Yes, Tempest has been given an overcharge function, and it’s literally the best — I love it. Yes, Dragonhunters got an overhaul of their F1 functions. And look, the Engineer only got a little robot that is almost as unsettling as it’s name “Gyro.” However, they also gave Engi a new blast finisher from using F5 on Mortar and a water field, a smoke field, and an ice field (and a poison). All of those things are useful whether or not it means a new way to stack stealth, a new way for allies to gain frost armor from Leaps (which has been updated to actually be useful; -10% damage taken), or a new addition to the water field family.

What I’m trying to say is: no, Engineers didn’t get Continuum Rift; no Engineers didn’t get Overload Toolbelt; no Engineers didn’t get a new set of Toolbelt skills; who cares? All the updates those classes got were to bring them all to equal footing.

Mesmer was a complete hassle to play in PvE because they dealt no damage but had a lot of utility such as reflects and condition removals, but now they have a way to be more useful by recharging skills for allies faster or having more access to quickness.

Necro was not a very playable character in PvE because they offered no utility and no significant form of damage.

Ele’s overload allowed them to support more and deal more damage because truthfully, they were lacking in the damage department considering they are pretty much built to nuke. I haven’t played many of the other classes, but I’m pretty sure it balanced things out finely as far as PvE goes.

I believe you would have to be extremely specific in what changes you want to see done on Engineers, because all the points you’ve made, are to me, extremely invalid. As an above post said, the Function Gyro is extremely useful. Be it stomping someone in PvP while you’re running away or ressing someone with it while you continue to fight.

My last point, and this is a big one, is directed at the weapon swap. If they make this change for PvE, it will spill into PvP as well. It would be the biggest mistake in mankind. You say it wouldn’t overpower Engineers by having weaponswap; well I say it would completely overpower engineers by having weaponswap.

Each weapon for Engineer offers a mix of things. Rifle has immobilize and knockback, pistol has conditions, shield has blockage, and now hammer has a variety of things. A projectile reflector that deals way too much damage, a block skill that stacks Vulnerability and also deals nice damage, a x3 leap skill that must be paired with a field; a water field and leap will restore a lot of hp, a lightning field and leap will be 3 dazes — it’s crazy. Not to mention their stun-on-impact lightning field.

If an engineer has more than one of these combinations, it will be very game-breaking. An engineer that is able to spam conditions on p/p then swap to rifle to also immobilize and spam a crazy knockback, then stun break yourself to cancel the self knockback, swap to wrench to pull enemy back, smack with confusion, swap to pistol, spam conditions all over again, swap to rifle, knockback………NO.

They are very good where they are, and weapon swap will ruin everything. Even in PvE, it will unbalance things quickly. Ultimately I don’t share the same unsatisfying feel about Engineers as you do and I would personally be upset if any of those changes were implemented because I feel Engineers do what they need to do and get what they need to get done already.

I don’t care about or compare them to what other classes got, because those classes got them for a reason — because they were underwhelming in specific aspects of the game and therefor useless. Now they have them; Engineer is still overwhelming and extremely useful; just because they didn’t also get a major update doesn’t mean they are now lacking.

#Ashern, a huge post, I’ve read it and I get your point, but I think you misunderstood me slightly. Here’s a wall of text as a response.

The engineer is the only reason I play gw2. Literally. And I have no problem with kit swapping, or whatnot. What bothers me, is the lack of core class mechanic that we have, and I am not the only one who has pointed this out. I’ve seen dozens of people complain about it. We are a class with a lot of skills, that we swap around in. That’s it. But ladies and gentlemen, more skills does not equal better or more diverse. It is simply bad design.

As it stands, our class mechanic is the tool belt, but we have no traits to strengthen them outside of the tools traitline. Every other profession in the game have some way, in every one of their trait lines, to strengthen their class mechanic, except us. There is no counter-argument to this. It is a huge flaw in our design. Instead of designing us around our class mechanic, we’re designed around the use of kits. This is a bad thing. Why?

Because we were given kits late in development as a response to this lack of mechanic. The kits would be our “new mechanic”. They were rushed and buggy as hell. And you know what? They were horrendously bad the first year or so of gw2. You would literally be insta-kicked if you tried to join a group as an engineer.

They fixed this by scaling kits off of our own weapons. This was a good change, and brought the engineer on par with other classes in terms of damage. However, it does not change the fact that we have a lack of class mechanic that nobody else have.

Yes, there are people who find kit swapping to be fun, and complex, and the whole reason they play. But let me tell you something.

Kit swapping: is the easiest, simplest, and worst designed thing in the world. Allow me to explain why.

In the beginning of gw2, kits had cooldown. Yes, they did. You had to first exit the kit you were in, to reenter another kit. This was to prevent the kits to become what they have become today. Even the developers made the kits, knowing that kit-swapping could become a problem. They removed this as they made the kits weapon scaled. Why? Because it was a simple solution to a very complex problem. Namely, that engineers sucked balls. In other words, the kits had to be made extremely strong, for the class to be viable.

Now, kit swapping is not hard. It’s extremely easy, but it feels complex and difficult because you’re mashing buttons. All you really need to do, is keep a count and swap a weapon. Is that hard? No. Even the developers tried to prevent it, because it would feel boring and unsatisfying to play.

We need an alternative. As it stands, no amount of elite specialization will ever change how the class is played, simply because the foundation isn’t as smooth as several of the other classes.

My suggestion is NOT to change the entire class around, or mess it up, but rather return our CORE MECHANIC, back to the TOOL BELT as it was originally intended to be.

I honestly don’t give a kitten about kits, I don’t care, but they are NOT a good core mechanic.

I see your point. With that said, I can also say the same about other classes. With what you’re saying, it seems as if you mean that Engis are just button mashers with no actual merit. However, I’d like to see exactly what you propose for Engis to change. If it’s to re-work the toolbelt, then sure — that’s not an “overhaul,” it’s just fixing the toolbelt.

To me, Engi is what makes the class itself, not it’s “core mechanic” of F1~ skills, because Engi is already in itself a core mechanic(?). Shatters don’t make Mesmers Mesmers, they are to benefit them. On that same token, Attunements do make Eles Eles because their class is built around that. The same with Engis, the toolbelt doesn’t make Engis Engis, it’s there to benefit them. Kits are their core mechanic because no other class has instant access to so many fields and different skills.

Not acknowledging kits as the Engineers core mechanic is to ignore what’s placed in front of you.

Maybe it’s because I’ve never had an issue with the toolbelt. To me, I can’t necessarily say it’s “fine,” but I don’t see it as broken or extremely messed up. I can agree, once I use up all my Toolbelt skills, I’m left with an “ok now what” type of feeling. But what is the difference between that and other classes’ F1s?

The toolbelt has always been there for what I needed it to do; pop a reflection, a field, or stealth, or whatever. It is basically it’s own toolkit up there above my own skills. I don’t necessarily see the benefit of giving it a different mechanic because I’m pretty much happy with all that Engi can do already.

That’s where our opinions differ on this matter I suppose. I can name issues with toolbelt, but I can also name issues with any other classes’ F skills or even their mechanics. So for me, Engi is very well balanced.

I think the Engineer is in a great place, if a little wonky at times. We really have a lot going for us, but it’s gated behind a higher skill curve relative to other classes. I think more than anything Engineer just wants you to tinker around and turn every utility and tool belt skill into a puzzle piece; the issue is that a lot of those pieces are demonstrably better than others.

I’ve always enjoyed playing classes that are Swiss army knives, though they tend to get thrown aside for classes with more focus or they just end up sucking because they can do everything alright but nothing great. Engineer’s great and in sort of a sweet spot where it (1) has the highest [potential] DPS in the game if you can channel your inner pianist; (2) has access to pretty much everything but condition immunity and boon ripping; and (3) can perform well in every aspect of the game in multiple roles.

Biggest thing for me and it seems like a few other people is that some of the utilities are too good and a good portion of the traits are never used. The same thing can be said for every other class though. It’s not that I wouldn’t love a reason to take Inventions over Explosives, but there really isn’t much of a reason to go with that trait line. There are also a couple elixirs that never get used because their cooldowns are enormous, their tool belt skills are the same thing (with the same huge cooldowns), and I could take a kit instead. Same thing could be said of a lot of gadgets. I don’t think I’ve ever had Battering Ram on my bar for more than a few seconds at a time…

TL;DR: Engineer is in a great spot, but it’s in a great spot because of a few powerful options, not because of the class design as a whole. A lot of traits and utilities need buffs or overhauls to make them more attractive choices over the dominant options.

Edit: Oh yeah, and turrets need a major overhaul. Ritualist spirits in GW1 were fine, if not terribly competitive, but they had the nice bonus of actually doing a fair job of area denial if you really specced into them. Turrets right now (except Healing Turret, which is great) just don’t cut it. They need their cooldowns reduced and more in the Inventions line that makes them a threat. Rifle Turret needs to inflict bleeding, pierce, or have a higher rate of fire; Rocket’s tool belt skill needs to be a blast finisher; Flame turret and Thumper need bigger ranges. Net’s alright, though its belt skill is boring.

We need some traits from Inventions that make them really stand out, like a big (see: 99%) cooldown reduction if you pick them up and possibly a trait for an extra effect on each when they hit.

Ashern.5328:

I see your point. With that said, I can also say the same about other classes. With what you’re saying, it seems as if you mean that Engis are just button mashers with no actual merit. However, I’d like to see exactly what you propose for Engis to change. If it’s to re-work the toolbelt, then sure — that’s not an “overhaul,” it’s just fixing the toolbelt.

To me, Engi is what makes the class itself, not it’s “core mechanic” of F1~ skills, because Engi is already in itself a core mechanic(?). Shatters don’t make Mesmers Mesmers, they are to benefit them. On that same token, Attunements do make Eles Eles because their class is built around that. The same with Engis, the toolbelt doesn’t make Engis Engis, it’s there to benefit them. Kits are their core mechanic because no other class has instant access to so many fields and different skills.

Not acknowledging kits as the Engineers core mechanic is to ignore what’s placed in front of you.

Maybe it’s because I’ve never had an issue with the toolbelt. To me, I can’t necessarily say it’s “fine,” but I don’t see it as broken or extremely messed up. I can agree, once I use up all my Toolbelt skills, I’m left with an “ok now what” type of feeling. But what is the difference between that and other classes’ F1s?

The toolbelt has always been there for what I needed it to do; pop a reflection, a field, or stealth, or whatever. It is basically it’s own toolkit up there above my own skills. I don’t necessarily see the benefit of giving it a different mechanic because I’m pretty much happy with all that Engi can do already.

That’s where our opinions differ on this matter I suppose. I can name issues with toolbelt, but I can also name issues with any other classes’ F skills or even their mechanics. So for me, Engi is very well balanced.

Thing is, I do acknowledge kits as the engineers core mechanic, that’s slightly what I think is part of the problem.

A core mechanic is defining to it’s class, and the class can’t play well without it. Remove adrenaline from warriors, clones from mesmers, shroud from necromancers, and their class becomes all too much boring for it. Even plain bad. The core mechanic, is just that: the defining trait of the class. Without our core mechanic, we can’t play well.

As engineers, we have the benefit (or problem) that our core mechanic is our kits, eating up utility slots, whereas it should have been the tool belt (as was intended from the beginning). Since our core mechanic is our kits, the more kits we use the stronger we are. And using fewer kits makes us worse for wear.

I’d like to see a change where the core mechanic is moved from focusing on our kits, to focusing on our tool belt. Make the tool belt valuable, nay, important to us again. Rather than just more buttons to mash.

I’m not saying “remove the kits”, I’m saying give us some kind of mechanic again. If kits were intended to be our core mechanic from the beginning, they wouldn’t have added them as utilities.

why not make other utilities all kits too?

put gyros as one kit.

i do agree that the problem with the scrapper is there is nothing really there for a mechanic.

i think a the mechanic should be something with kits for sure but i have no idea what.

gyros were a terrible idea and i cant believe that got past the first brainstorm.

I play engi over 3 years and I want say something.

In verdant brink you know is console HP. I am solo player and first try i make with revenant… meaby I am bad with this class so I run out of time. This make me angry. I swap to engi and try with scrapper-same result. I try old good nade power build but still not got it. I was make for this HP rlly hybrid build. Firearms, inventions and scrapper. Swap equip to condi and use turrets(flame turret). After 4 mins my work is done. And it’s not only one problem that i solved with this “jack of all trades” class. (AB balthazar HP with stealth blasting, chill noxious pod farm in DS with sneak gyro…)

I think that “unique” class mechanic is whole engineer. No each skill/utility but together make this class great. You don’t need to be master, but if you will play with traits, you always find the way.

Sorry for bad english- tired overnight work :-)

Btw: Still dont know when i can use purge, shredd and blast gyro :-)

ashern is most skilled than i am. He knows every combo, buff, trick, and skill in and out.

Allie i think our toolbelt gives us lots of awesome unique skills, more skills to play with.

The engineer has a TON of different skills 1-5 on 5 kits, over 25 tool belt skills, and an extra 15 skills on ultility slots, and 4 elite skills + a few racial skills here and there.

Ashern took my post and made a more concise informative post about how engineers are quite versatile.

If they could use all their skills instead of just limited to 1 heal 3 utility 1 elite 5 tool belt skills – they would be OP.

I am not understanding how you don’t like the tool belt or kit swapping. I love it, but only because i like it with my preferred play style and role.

engineers have a higher skill cap because they have a lot of options, tricks, combos, and builds.

They also have to change up their skills in fractal and probably in raids to be a benefit to their 5 man party.

I think most people want a class that can stand on it’s own as a complete and Powerful class. Engineer doesn’t look powerful at first because there is no simple way to do mad damage and win.

Rather it’s more of a jack of all trades with decent sustain damage in zerk or conditions and lots of skills that most people think are useless. The problem is useless is when people think of their own benefit and not how to help the zerg or have battle options.

well yea that’s my opinion of engineer.

Anthony.1579:

ashern is most skilled than i am. He knows every combo, buff, trick, and skill in and out.

Allie i think our toolbelt gives us lots of awesome unique skills, more skills to play with.

The engineer has a TON of different skills 1-5 on 5 kits, over 25 tool belt skills, and an extra 15 skills on ultility slots, and 4 elite skills + a few racial skills here and there.

Ashern took my post and made a more concise informative post about how engineers are quite versatile.

If they could use all their skills instead of just limited to 1 heal 3 utility 1 elite 5 tool belt skills – they would be OP.

I am not understanding how you don’t like the tool belt or kit swapping. I love it, but only because i like it with my preferred play style and role.

engineers have a higher skill cap because they have a lot of options, tricks, combos, and builds.

They also have to change up their skills in fractal and probably in raids to be a benefit to their 5 man party.

I think most people want a class that can stand on it’s own as a complete and Powerful class. Engineer doesn’t look powerful at first because there is no simple way to do mad damage and win.

Rather it’s more of a jack of all trades with decent sustain damage in zerk or conditions and lots of skills that most people think are useless. The problem is useless is when people think of their own benefit and not how to help the zerg or have battle options.

well yea that’s my opinion of engineer.

I will repeat something I’ve said many times before: do you think the flamethrower was designed to be swapped into for a single spell, and then swapped out of? No. It wasn’t even designed like that to begin with. In the beta and even during launch, kits had cooldowns that discouraged people from using too many at once.

But I digress. This isn’t about kit swapping, in my opinion. It’s about the fact that our core mechanic isn’t a mechanic at all, but rather just more skills. Sure, the more the merrier, but it doesn’t mean it’s a good design.

I’m fine with how the engineer is as it is, hell, I do three times the damage of some of my guild mates, but honestly, I would not mind it if they reworked the entire core mechanic to return to what it was originally meant to be, the tool belt that were to be a gamechanger. (Oh, and we are the only class in the game, whose core mechanic can’t be improved with traits. We have an increased recharge, and some vigor).

I really think this could make the class much more fun, and diverse, rather than just a kittenload of different skills.

go away! No, really – leave my beloved engineer alone!