A way to make us more versatile.

A way to make us more versatile.

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Posted by: GuilguiS.2738

GuilguiS.2738

I’ve already seen many ideas to make us truly versatile, like the ability to choose our toolbelt skill. But i have something else in mind and they don’t interfere, we could do both.

Since our versatility comes from kits, why not take all our utilitys and turn them into kits?

This way we would still have to use elixir s or rocket boots for our stun breakers, but an engineer could carry at the same time all his elixirs, all his gadgets, and a weapon kit. The utility kits would not have auto attack, of course, our toolbelt skills should be selectable anyway, and all the CDs would be the same as they are now. Eles would be kings of weapon skill while we would be the kings of utility. Besides if you read the description of the engineer at the mais website it says something like this: “Engineers are walking arsenals that carry everything they need to dominate the battlefield.”

An engineer could go into a dungeon with grenades for damage, elixirs for buffs, and gadgets for control for example.

We would have around the same ammount of skills as the elementalist, but some of them would be utilitys instead of weapon skills.

(edited by GuilguiS.2738)

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Posted by: JohnDied.3476

JohnDied.3476

Do you suggest having something like an elixir kit and turret kit?

I think that this change would truly make us the most difficult class to play with the amount of cooldowns, skills, and kit swapping we would have to manage. It would also elevate the learning curve to the engineer greatly, as kit swapping would become mandatory, but it would also give the engineer a lot more potential.

This change also has the potential to be even more misunderstood by engineers and even other classes. We are already considered kings of spam (as opposed to versatility), this could make us even spamier and kitten off engineers that dislike how spamy kits are.

It would also make other classes cry in outrage when a really good engineer comes along mastering all of his cool-downs, hitting a lot of combos, and utilizing every elixir at the right time. Devs might “balance” the engineer around this and make every individual ability less effective, making the class even harder to play.

What I’m saying is that I like your suggestion, but It comes with a lot of set backs and I can’t decide if it would its drawbacks outweigh its advantages. It would be good to talk it out and detail the advantages and set backs though.

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Posted by: Toolbox.9375

Toolbox.9375

Do you suggest having something like an elixir kit and turret kit?

Ohmygoshohmygoshohmygoshyesyesplease

Being able to have all my turrets AS WELL AS some other useful stuff would make me one INCREDIBLY happy camper!!

The class is always greener on the other side.

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Posted by: Danceingman.5194

Danceingman.5194

I have been saying this exact thing for a while now +1,000 to you, i think it would add a lot to how engi is played and make us more viable.

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Posted by: Xavian Johnson.3428

Xavian Johnson.3428

This is pure genius! Not only does it make sense but It makes SENSE and would actually be way more versatile than the way it isn’t now. So sick of specing into bombs or/and nades. This would inspire people/me to try more than just 2 weapon kits. I would go as far as to pay for this change to be implemented on February.

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Posted by: Lord Aargadon.4135

Lord Aargadon.4135

^Someones had too much Elixir to drink.

Anyways, what you propose is a very interesting idea, although I think this would lead to rebalancing (AKA nerfing) from Anet.

With just an Elixer kit, your packing 9stacks might(HGH), 10 swift retal and fury, 2 stunbreaks, 3 sec invul, total condition removal+removal on use, with all of these benefitting from +20% duration and -20% recharge trait. Thats one utility slot for all of that. But another thing Im worried about is trait speccing, like in the example I just gave, traiting for it makes it greatly better, where as in other kits that are supposedly going to give us versatility, they are probably still going to be wasted space if not traited and geared for use.

So there would definitely be some rearanging be done and most likely a huge outcry from the engi community out there(due to gold spent on builds, being even worse, blah blah…). Sure Im all for this, it is a buff after all, and any loss of toolbelt skills Im cool with since they all suck major kittens.

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Posted by: JohnDied.3476

JohnDied.3476

Do you suggest having something like an elixir kit and turret kit?

Ohmygoshohmygoshohmygoshyesyesplease

Being able to have all my turrets AS WELL AS some other useful stuff would make me one INCREDIBLY happy camper!!

Imagine having five turrets at your disposal, with tool kit, AND a stunbreaker. Blows the mind doesn’t it?

BTW, a gadget kit would be the most underutilized kit ever. Kit engineers would still ignore gadget kit because it would lack synergy, and some PvPeers would be very angry about the micromanagement of having to go into a kit.

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Posted by: Xavian Johnson.3428

Xavian Johnson.3428

Gadget kit would be outstanding! Have you never used discharge bolt and wider mine radius with the mine kits tool belt skill? it does the equivalent of barrage grenades damage only every 20 seconds instead of 24. Gadget kit would be the best kit for cc as well

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Posted by: JohnDied.3476

JohnDied.3476

All I could think of was rocket boots and slick shoes. I forgot about throw mine :p

You would loose all but one toolbelt skill if gadget kit were to be made. I guess that goes into giving engineers the option to choose what toolbelt skills go up. Otherwise we would loose some interesting ones.

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Posted by: Xavian Johnson.3428

Xavian Johnson.3428

I would never complain about condition removal ever again if this happened. Revert the stacks of might back to one with the HGH trait and elixer kit would be a dream come true. However, If we get nerfed next patch on our bombs or grenades AGAIN then I’m most likely gonna change my hipster ways and just be one of those Flavor Of The Month hoppers

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Posted by: Raijinn.9065

Raijinn.9065

The easiest thing they could do to make us more versatile IMO would be to let us drop our elite for another kit. This would open the door to allow many builds to have sufficient condition healing, stun breaker(s), utility, healing, and damage. Many times I find far too many of the builds I think of either i don’t have enough room for condition healing, or a stun breaker won’t fit, or lacking damage it always something. Have you played an ele? They can cure a condition every time they get regeneration and their stun breakers can grant regen so blah blah blah they cure a tremendous amount of conditions more than us so much easier.

This class is so broken at this point. And honestly I got so tired of it, I figured I might as well enjoy in the fun. I love pvp and I learned many things from engineering. All those battles running 3 kits flip floppring on a seconds notice HAVNT been for naught. For now those skills make for a great elementalist and I find them to be much stronger, having a lot more fun, oh and I’m loving it.

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Posted by: Xavian Johnson.3428

Xavian Johnson.3428

^ Traitor lol

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Posted by: JackWest.8974

JackWest.8974

I’ve already seen many ideas to make us truly versatile, like the ability to choose our toolbelt skill. But i have something else in mind and they don’t interfere, we could do both.

Since our versatility comes from kits, why not take all our utilitys and turn them into kits?

This way we would still have to use elixir s or rocket boots for our stun breakers, but an engineer could carry at the same time all his elixirs, all his gadgets, and a weapon kit. The utility kits would not have auto attack, of course, our toolbelt skills should be selectable anyway, and all the CDs would be the same as they are now. Eles would be kings of weapon skill while we would be the kings of utility. Besides if you read the description of the engineer at the mais website it says something like this: “Engineers are walking arsenals that carry everything they need to dominate the battlefield.”

An engineer could go into a dungeon with grenades for damage, elixirs for buffs, and gadgets for control for example.

We would have around the same ammount of skills as the elementalist, but some of them would be utilitys instead of weapon skills.

Oh i would love this so much!
But how would the heal work? I mean, if the healing turret goes in turret kit and elixir H goes in elixir kit, are we going to have 3 heals at our disposal? Maybe it’s a bit too much…
A solution would be taking out the heal from both of them, plus the RNG factor (so it grants every bonus listed) from elixir H and granting the healing turret a permanent water field, it would not be OP cause you could easy destroy it with two hits and end it after 2 seconds.

And what for the toolbelt skills for the various new kits? A good idea would being able to select one of the toolbelt of the skills in that kit…

The more I think of it, the more awesome it becomes!

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Posted by: JohnDied.3476

JohnDied.3476

Heals would probably not be affected by this. Turret kit would probably only include rifle, flame, rocket, thumper and net turrets. There’s five turrets excluding the healing turret, so I don’t know where you would find the space in the turret kit. Its like they made just enough combat turrets to make a kit and decided to not make it because it would be overpowered or something.

In any case, if there were a turret kit the individual turrets would have to have longer cooldowns to balance around, but a turret build would no longer be terribly un-viable anymore

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Posted by: JackWest.8974

JackWest.8974

Heals would probably not be affected by this. Turret kit would probably only include rifle, flame, rocket, thumper and net turrets. There’s five turrets excluding the healing turret, so I don’t know where you would find the space in the turret kit. Its like they made just enough combat turrets to make a kit and decided to not make it because it would be overpowered or something.

Ohoh man! You’re right! And there are even 5 elixirs without elixir H, ahah dunno what i was thinking! Oh well, let’s ignore the first part of my post, the second one about the selectable toolbelt skills is still valid i guess

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Posted by: Coltz.5617

Coltz.5617

Or, we can just have weapon swaps.

- I infract cause I’m passionate about the game-
“ALL IS VAIN”
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/gf-left-me-coz-of-ladderboar/page/6#post3486969

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Posted by: crow.2709

crow.2709

Or, we can just have weapon swaps.

And swap between our 3 possible weapon sets? Not really attractive. What could be done, would be to remove secondary skills from the toolbelt and let the player place kits in. Up the cooldown and make it 3 slots instead of 4.
It will work similar to elementalists’ attunements and we will keep versatility for the sake of also having utili skills. Face it- you take 2 kits and have 1 utility skill left. And elites? There’s just the supply drop. Nothing else.

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Posted by: Lord Aargadon.4135

Lord Aargadon.4135

Or a unique “weapon mod” that would take the F1 spot, all the rest would get shoved over a spot. Essentially it would switch your rifle between a shotgun and sniper/rifle or your pistol with a dart gun and shield with droppable barricade skill that acts as cover but locks your shield skills out. Thoughts?

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Posted by: Sephollos.4829

Sephollos.4829

I think that it is a good idea, but I think that it would be a bit frustrating to play with given the delay times on switching kits (since you wouldn’t be able to attack or anything if you swap to like an elixir kit)

I think this would really improve the class overall though, and make it much more fun to play. Though it might be a bit too powerful having a kit with all of the elixirs in it. A kit with all of the turrets might actually make them worth using.

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Posted by: Travail.7390

Travail.7390

This, coupled with allowing us to choose Toolbelt skills independently of utilities (which they’d really have no choice but to do) could be a good change for the Engineer.

The five turrets all in one kit could be good, since even having 5 turrets out at once isn’t all that threatening the way they are, now. This would allow us to take multiple turrets along with the Wrench, and still have a utility slot open for a stun breaker in PvP. This would definitely help PvP turret specs.

A Gadget Kit could also be ok, but you have to realize that the damage of each gadget would have to be nerfed. No way ANet gives the Engineer 3 knockbacks on the same utility, while letting us deal any decent damage with that kit. Personally, I’d take that tradeoff. Every gadget in a single kit, but have them deal only token damage (keep a damage number associated with them so they can proc our “on hit” effects.)

Elixirs would be problematic. If they did that with Elixirs, they’d have to completely rebalance them. With an Elixir kit, you’d have Elixirs B, C, R, S, and U, all taking up only one utility slot. Ignoring their Toolbelt skills, that’s still 5 attacks which can all be traited to cleanse conditions; which all provide powerful buffs; and many of which have other effects (restoring endurance, granting invulnerability, etc.) That would, hands down, be the single best utility slot in the entire game. They’d have to nerf every single Elixir to balance that.

Perhaps they could provide the 5 Toolbelt Elixir skills as a single kit? Then move Elixirs up to the Toolbelt? So, essentially, you’d be able to take Elixirs in place of Toolbelt skills, and then be able to take all of the current Toolbelt Elixirs at the same time (it would basically be an “Elixir throwing kit.”) That would be the only way I could see Elixirs working as a kit, without needing major rebalancing.

-Travail.

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Posted by: Zonzai.2341

Zonzai.2341

No matter what happens to the engineer it is going to require major rebalancing. So I’m good with having a gadget kit or anything else as long as I could actually be versatile. IMNHO, the engineer needs to be redesigned to serve as a support class since ANet clearly doesn’t want us to have versatility and damage (like the elementalist).

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Posted by: Oxstar.7643

Oxstar.7643

I don’t know man, I’m sorta worried I’d have a ton of stuff I don’t use with me just for one thing I simply must have. A better way imo is to unbind all skills and let us select ourselves what we want to have in a maximum of 4 kits. My first kit would contain drop stimulants, super elixir, rocket boots, prybar, and gear shield.

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Posted by: Terrahero.9358

Terrahero.9358

I think the most important first step would be to not make traits so highly specialized, and kits by default underperforming, requiring these specialized traits to make them usefull.
Meaning the player can pick 1 trait and 1 weapon to use (semi-)properly.

Give us some traits that would apply to several kits/weapons so we arent forced into a very narrowed skill setup.