Guild Wars 2

Think about it. Engis original class mechanic will always make him gain new F skills with any skill added. A new class mechanic would basically have to alter this fact which would efficiently add less new stuff than we get right now anyway.

Personally I am completely fine with that. Engis core mechanic makes him change more than any other class just by adding new skills even if those other classes gain new F skills.

Yeah, that’s why they twisted our “F” (the letter) key with the functional gyro.
Same reason ranger won’t be petless.

The class mechanic is too intertwined into traits and gameplay :-)

Dojo.1867:

Think about it. Engis original class mechanic will always make him gain new F skills with any skill added. A new class mechanic would basically have to alter this fact which would efficiently add less new stuff than we get right now anyway.

Personally I am completely fine with that. Engis core mechanic makes him change more than any other class just by adding new skills even if those other classes gain new F skills.

I don’t think this is a good reason for what we are getting.
If you think so, why did elementalist get overcharge? Their old class mechanic gives them more new weapon skills than any other (with offhand 8 instead of 5). And they still got reworked attunements.

So if elementalist gets a 2h weapon in future, they don’t deserve any new mechanic because they get so many new skills?

And engineer doesn’t deserve any meaningful class mechanic change just because their toolbelt gives them more skills with theit utilities?

If you think so, we will get some really depressing future expansions…..

Kodama.6453:

Dojo.1867:

Think about it. Engis original class mechanic will always make him gain new F skills with any skill added. A new class mechanic would basically have to alter this fact which would efficiently add less new stuff than we get right now anyway.

Personally I am completely fine with that. Engis core mechanic makes him change more than any other class just by adding new skills even if those other classes gain new F skills.

I don’t think this is a good reason for what we are getting.
If you think so, why did elementalist get overcharge? Their old class mechanic gives them more new weapon skills than any other (with offhand 8 instead of 5). And they still got reworked attunements.

So if elementalist gets a 2h weapon in future, they don’t deserve any new mechanic because they get so many new skills?

And engineer doesn’t deserve any meaningful class mechanic change just because their toolbelt gives them more skills with theit utilities?

If you think so, we will get some really depressing future expansions…..

Engi still got a minor mechanical change with the revive/stomp alteration. Ele would not have any F key change with new weapons. I think with new class mechanics Anet specifically focusses on differen F keys. I still cannot think about a new engi mechanic that would not rather be a downgrade to what we have right now. For example they could force an energy resource on the class or change the toolbelt thing but both would be more likely to add limitations than improve stuff. Also I really doubt they would ever add even more F skills than 5.

If all the Function Gyro does is stomp and rez then what about when we are alone doing a jumping puzzle? Other classes elite specializations are effective in 100% of the game. Persistent changes to their class like overloads, berserker mode, change to a dodge roll. But for Scrapper their “elite mechanic” requires other players to be around. As more of a PvP WvW player, I know the Function Gyro will be valuable.

But, as I said in another post, why could it not be a full replacement for our F interact key and loot mobs, or interact with NPCs, or the trade post for us? Some of these ideas make me laugh. Some would bend game mechanics, like interacting with a puzzle switch at range. But why not?

My point is, though Engineers have never really had a rez support line ala Warrior’s tactics (beyond Elixir R and S especially when traited) I am not too excited about what I perceive as a super limited “elite spec mechanic.” I’m fine with them adding stuff to our interact “letter f key” (not a function key), but it needs to do something for you when you are not in a party.

With all that, I am still SUPER HYPED to play Scrapper.

Ranged revive will definitely change my support engi’s playstyle so i’m not so fussed.

I don’t want to get the functional gyros completely replaced by something else. I just want the devs to add something that will actually WORK in pve. It doesn’t have to be powerful, just give us something.

Like: if you use a toolbelt skill, you summon a protecting gyros, which will absorb 1k damage for you. (Isn’t attackable for itself, if enemy attacks you, damage is reduced by 1k). Add an ICD to this and I would be totally fine with scrapper.

The gyros have traits attached to them anyway. Stability, stun field, damage on death so there is that. Making just any interaction work via the gyro seems hard to implement. That being said teammates DO die in PvE even if it is a suboptimal scenario. If you can come up with some additional feature that would work then go for it but persinally I find it hard to find something. Quality of life stuff like trading post interaction etc is a very bad idea and will only cause grief since onther classes don’t have it.

Edit: Guess they could let gyros pick up turrets but since this would not matter at all for the only turret that really sees play (healing) this would not exactly be huge. Only good part would be that you had more ways to proc the second minor trait that gives boons to you when your function gyro does somthing (revive, stomp and then also pick up turrets). So it would basically proc boons whenever you use healing turret and if in some distant metagame more turrets would be good picking them up with gyros might be actually useful.

Kodama.6453:

Dojo.1867:

Think about it. Engis original class mechanic will always make him gain new F skills with any skill added. A new class mechanic would basically have to alter this fact which would efficiently add less new stuff than we get right now anyway.

Personally I am completely fine with that. Engis core mechanic makes him change more than any other class just by adding new skills even if those other classes gain new F skills.

I don’t think this is a good reason for what we are getting.
If you think so, why did elementalist get overcharge? Their old class mechanic gives them more new weapon skills than any other (with offhand 8 instead of 5). And they still got reworked attunements.

So if elementalist gets a 2h weapon in future, they don’t deserve any new mechanic because they get so many new skills?

And engineer doesn’t deserve any meaningful class mechanic change just because their toolbelt gives them more skills with theit utilities?

If you think so, we will get some really depressing future expansions…..

Well, Engineers have 27 different heals/utilities/elites, so that means they have 27 different toolbelt skills that are affected by core mechanic changes. Implementing Elementalist overloads on attunements are child’s play compared to the task of altering 27 different skills.

Frankly though, long-range rezzing and stomping is a mechanic change; it’s a combat mechanic change. The Dardevil didn’t get a change to its class mechanic either and instead found itself with a combat mechanic change through its dodge (which is hopefully being fixed well, though I digress).

As for the number of new weapon skills and class mechanic skills classes get, it’s not universally 5:

2-Handed Weapons:
Reaper: 10 5 updated class mechanic skills, 5 new weapon skills
Dragonhunter: 8 3 updated class mechanic skills, 5 new weapon skills
Daredevil: 6 1 new combat mechanic, 5 new weapon skills
Scrapper: 11 1 new combat mechanic, 5 new class mechanic skills, 5 new weapon skills
Druid: X Unknown

1-Handed Weapons:
Chronomancer: 3 1 new class mechanic, 2 new weapon skills
Tempest: 12 4 attunement overloads, 8 weapon skills
Berserker: 11 9 new class mechanic skills, 2 new weapon skills
Herald: 3 1 new class mechanic skill, 2 new weapon skills

As you can see, Tempest got the most, but only by 1. Scrapper and Berserker tie for second, and Reaper comes in a close third.

MiniEquine.6014:

Kodama.6453:

Dojo.1867:

Think about it. Engis original class mechanic will always make him gain new F skills with any skill added. A new class mechanic would basically have to alter this fact which would efficiently add less new stuff than we get right now anyway.

Personally I am completely fine with that. Engis core mechanic makes him change more than any other class just by adding new skills even if those other classes gain new F skills.

I don’t think this is a good reason for what we are getting.
If you think so, why did elementalist get overcharge? Their old class mechanic gives them more new weapon skills than any other (with offhand 8 instead of 5). And they still got reworked attunements.

So if elementalist gets a 2h weapon in future, they don’t deserve any new mechanic because they get so many new skills?

And engineer doesn’t deserve any meaningful class mechanic change just because their toolbelt gives them more skills with theit utilities?

If you think so, we will get some really depressing future expansions…..

Well, Engineers have 27 different heals/utilities/elites, so that means they have 27 different toolbelt skills that are affected by core mechanic changes. Implementing Elementalist overloads on attunements are child’s play compared to the task of altering 27 different skills.

Frankly though, long-range rezzing and stomping is a mechanic change; it’s a combat mechanic change. The Dardevil didn’t get a change to its class mechanic either and instead found itself with a combat mechanic change through its dodge (which is hopefully being fixed well, though I digress).

As for the number of new weapon skills and class mechanic skills classes get, it’s not universally 5:

2-Handed Weapons:
Reaper: 10 5 updated class mechanic skills, 5 new weapon skills
Dragonhunter: 8 3 updated class mechanic skills, 5 new weapon skills
Daredevil: 6 1 new combat mechanic, 5 new weapon skills
Scrapper: 11 1 new combat mechanic, 5 new class mechanic skills, 5 new weapon skills
Druid: X Unknown

1-Handed Weapons:
Chronomancer: 3 1 new class mechanic, 2 new weapon skills
Tempest: 12 4 attunement overloads, 8 weapon skills
Berserker: 11 9 new class mechanic skills, 2 new weapon skills
Herald: 3 1 new class mechanic skill, 2 new weapon skills

As you can see, Tempest got the most, but only by 1. Scrapper and Berserker tie for second, and Reaper comes in a close third.

I didn’t say the new gyro isn’t a class mechanic change, but it isn’t a good one for PvE. This mechanic won’t be worth it 99% of the time. That’s why I would like to get something minor added to this, to actually feel a change in PvE.

I even did suggestions, you don’t have to change the toolbelt skills itself, just add something just like tools do → vigor on toolbelt activation.

I don’t think my suggestion is too much to ask for.

Kodama.6453:

I didn’t say the new gyro isn’t a class mechanic change, but it isn’t a good one for PvE. This mechanic won’t be worth it 99% of the time. That’s why I would like to get something minor added to this, to actually feel a change in PvE.

I even did suggestions, you don’t have to change the toolbelt skills itself, just add something just like tools do -> vigor on toolbelt activation.

I don’t think my suggestion is too much to ask for.

Stomping may not be useful for PvE, so far as we know (we’ll see if it becomes a thing in raids), but rezzing absolutely is. What if you don’t even have to stand in place while you command your gyro to rez your downed ally and you get to continue to DPS the boss? Isn’t this a lot of the issue as to why people don’t stop to rez in the first place; they lose DPS?

I know you’re just using the boon-on-activation as an example, but let’s roll with that for now. Is getting a single boon an acceptable change to the class mechanic? I would say no there would almost certainly be rage threads about that.
Do you get different boons? Are those decided by which F-key you press or by what is slotted in the toolbelt? If the first, then it’s 5 instances of boons disconnected from the utility. If it’s the latter, then it’s 27 different instances of boons, which is a lot. If it’s 1 boon per utility type, that could fit better. If it’s only for the drones, that’s obviously an issue.

MiniEquine.6014:

Kodama.6453:

I didn’t say the new gyro isn’t a class mechanic change, but it isn’t a good one for PvE. This mechanic won’t be worth it 99% of the time. That’s why I would like to get something minor added to this, to actually feel a change in PvE.

I even did suggestions, you don’t have to change the toolbelt skills itself, just add something just like tools do -> vigor on toolbelt activation.

I don’t think my suggestion is too much to ask for.

Stomping may not be useful for PvE, so far as we know (we’ll see if it becomes a thing in raids), but rezzing absolutely is. What if you don’t even have to stand in place while you command your gyro to rez your downed ally and you get to continue to DPS the boss? Isn’t this a lot of the issue as to why people don’t stop to rez in the first place; they lose DPS?

I know you’re just using the boon-on-activation as an example, but let’s roll with that for now. Is getting a single boon an acceptable change to the class mechanic? I would say no there would almost certainly be rage threads about that.
Do you get different boons? Are those decided by which F-key you press or by what is slotted in the toolbelt? If the first, then it’s 5 instances of boons disconnected from the utility. If it’s the latter, then it’s 27 different instances of boons, which is a lot. If it’s 1 boon per utility type, that could fit better. If it’s only for the drones, that’s obviously an issue.

This shows me you didn’t even bother to read my suggestion.
My suggestion was the following: Activating a toolbelt skill (or 3 or whatever seems balanced) will spawn protective gyroscope. This gyroscope isn’t attackable directly, but it absorbs a set amount of direct damage for the scrapper (let’s say for example 1k, numbers can change). The gyroscope also is gated by an ICD.

You don’t have to think about different toolbelt skills, because this is just counting how many you are activating and doesn’t care which one it actually is. Nor is it possible to abuse low cd toolbelt skills, because the gyroscope itself is gated behind an ICD.

I don’t think this will be a bad idea and would fit the tank theme of the scrapper, while also using his new shiny gyros.

Kodama.6453:

MiniEquine.6014:

Kodama.6453:

I didn’t say the new gyro isn’t a class mechanic change, but it isn’t a good one for PvE. This mechanic won’t be worth it 99% of the time. That’s why I would like to get something minor added to this, to actually feel a change in PvE.

I even did suggestions, you don’t have to change the toolbelt skills itself, just add something just like tools do -> vigor on toolbelt activation.

I don’t think my suggestion is too much to ask for.

Stomping may not be useful for PvE, so far as we know (we’ll see if it becomes a thing in raids), but rezzing absolutely is. What if you don’t even have to stand in place while you command your gyro to rez your downed ally and you get to continue to DPS the boss? Isn’t this a lot of the issue as to why people don’t stop to rez in the first place; they lose DPS?

I know you’re just using the boon-on-activation as an example, but let’s roll with that for now. Is getting a single boon an acceptable change to the class mechanic? I would say no there would almost certainly be rage threads about that.
Do you get different boons? Are those decided by which F-key you press or by what is slotted in the toolbelt? If the first, then it’s 5 instances of boons disconnected from the utility. If it’s the latter, then it’s 27 different instances of boons, which is a lot. If it’s 1 boon per utility type, that could fit better. If it’s only for the drones, that’s obviously an issue.

This shows me you didn’t even bother to read my suggestion.
My suggestion was the following: Activating a toolbelt skill (or 3 or whatever seems balanced) will spawn protective gyroscope. This gyroscope isn’t attackable directly, but it absorbs a set amount of direct damage for the scrapper (let’s say for example 1k, numbers can change). The gyroscope also is gated by an ICD.

You don’t have to think about different toolbelt skills, because this is just counting how many you are activating and doesn’t care which one it actually is. Nor is it possible to abuse low cd toolbelt skills, because the gyroscope itself is gated behind an ICD.

I don’t think this will be a bad idea and would fit the tank theme of the scrapper, while also using his new shiny gyros.

The reason it might not seem like I read what you said is EDIT: apparently you mentioned something in a small comment. I did not see that before. Your suggestion here doesn’t sound bad at all. It actually reminds me a bit of Holy Paladins in WoW where (at least in Cataclysm when I played) they would put a small shield on targets that they healed up to a certain amount of shielding. This change would be more “selfish”, but would definitely lead to higher survivability and that tankiness that could be quite helpful in raids and higher-level fractals.

Kodama, you could, you know, use the function gyro to Rez people in PvE. But if it’s not a fire field or an icebox with you guys, it’s just useless, isn’kitten

nearlight.3064:

Kodama, you could, you know, use the function gyro to Rez people in PvE. But if it’s not a fire field or an icebox with you guys, it’s just useless, isn’kitten

I know that and I will test it in the next BWE. We also have to see how it will work exactly in the stream today. I just got the feeling this new class mechanic could feel a bit underwhelming if you compete them to what all the other elite specs got.

A class mechanic which you just don’t notice most of the time (let’s be honost, or are your party members in down state each 15 seconds?) is a little bit depressing. Like I said, adding something that you are noticing the whole time in a battle could be a thing. It doesn’t have to be something powerful, just something to notice and say “yeah, there is something happening”.