Guild Wars 2

Recently I’ve aquired myself a lvl 80 engi. Great class, great char works well in parties, but heres the problem. Everytime I want to run a metazerk run, let it be Ta fwd or Cm there is always a thief tagging along. It makes me feel unwanted :C Yesterday I cleared the first bit of p1 Cm that stealth bitty without dieying (which is an achievement xD) and opened up an lfg and guess what, a thief joined .. I can stealth so why the thief TT

I remember a case with Ta where I said I would stealth for dogs, and they just ran past through me and some died lol I tell the guards (we had two) that with flamethrower, a staff would not be needed so they could switch for more dps and what does one do? He attacks all the blooms, he even did it in stealth…

So basically does anyone else ever feel ignored when playing as an engi performing basic tasks? Or is my low lvl ap holding me back (2k).

1st of, yes 2k Ap is low and people tend to not trust low AP players.
2nd, FT brings you in combat since you need 2 ticks to kill a flower, hence you move slower. Guardian staff kills them with 1 hit, therefore he doesn’t get tagged into combat and the group can run full speed instead of crawling behind you.
3rd, engi can stealth and quite for long, but has way longer cd’s than thief and is horrible when it comes to applying stealth while running full speed, hence a thief performs better.

Yes, engineer can perform all necessary tasks in a group and compensate for missing classes, but -as of now- never excels in any role. So if there is a thief, let him do the stealthing (help out with additional blasts on smoke-screen), rely on guardian staff if there is one, let the guardian drop his wall first and go for our 50% chance with elixir U once it times out, let thiefs do the solo part in CM if there are any, because they have a easier time and are faster than engis.

Our class is awesome since we are the jack of all trades, but master of none. Lean back and let others do the work they are better in and collect your gold at the end. If you let things happen in their natural flow you’ll earn way more gg’s and hero-moments than with trying to be the special snowflake of every party.
Be assured that most players with 6k AP or more are well aware of what engineers are capable of or not. You don’t need to prove anyone what you can do or not. Most people will thank you more for tagging along and allowing a quick and event-less run.

My party always kick teefs and taking something usefull instead I love how upset they always are:-P Sad truth is not many ppl know engi can stealth I met handfull of ppl 15k+ AP who tried convince me that engi cant stealth:-)

Rozbuska.5263:

My party always kick teefs and taking something usefull instead I love how upset they always are:-P Sad truth is not many ppl know engi can stealth I met handfull of ppl 15k+ AP who tried convince me that engi cant stealth:-)

So its not only me then who runs across these…. specials who dont take the “im engi, i can do almost everything” not serios. I actually got laughed at for claiming i can stealth once.

Most players don’t even know engi has higher dps than most classes besides ele in pve.

I hope people don’t believe that, “jack of all trades master of none” thing. Engi can stack 25 might, 25 vuln, cleanse condis, stealth, dps, projectile reflect/destruction, solo dungeons like arah.

sorry chief, but don’t over-exagerate things.
keeping vuln. up on 25 stacks requires continually spamming nades, nade barrage and jumpshot. the acid bomb / napalm tick helps with vuln., but when you then start on blasting napalm all the time with HT, Acid Bomb and FT #2, you start rotating so often that you overall vuln.-output goes way below 20 stacks, while you’ll never be able to blast more than 15-18 stacks might continually, not to mention that you’ll still need to do dps with keeping nades #2 + #4 & blunderbus on cd, so while trying to do everything at once, you start lacking performance in all aspects.
DPS + vuln works.
DPS + might-stacking (and some drive-by vuln.) works.
Vuln. + might stacking (and some drive-by dps) works.
Trying to achieve all three together in a stable rotation results in being mediocre in all of them.

Yes, we are very versatile, and can combo a few roles together in a single build, but we’re not able to do everything you listed on the same time, and looking specifically into each and every single one of these jobs, other classes will excel there…

thief brings highest boss-dps, ele brings highest dps in general.
2 Phalanx warris cap might with GS easily for the group
Guardians will cleanse more condis more often
thiefs are superior when it comes to stealth-skips
projectile reflect is more welcomed than destruction, and guardian has a way shorter cd on his reflects than us, along with a 100% reliability (unless you count fortified turrets, which tends to bug out lately, especially for rifle-turret, and forces you to go 6 into inventions, therefore either giving up on grenadier or mod. ammunition)
The only thing engi is best in is vuln. stacking, and if necro wouldn’t suffer from the lowest dps, they’d excel us in the aspects windup-time and reliability in upkeep.

Necro lowest dps? Funny wall of text.

sorrychief.2563:

Most players don’t even know engi has higher dps than most classes besides ele in pve.

I hope people don’t believe that, “jack of all trades master of none” thing. Engi can stack 25 might, 25 vuln, cleanse condis, stealth, dps, projectile reflect/destruction, solo dungeons like arah.

More accurate is Engi can do everything like other classes sometime better however much harder to handle-)

sorrychief.2563:

Necro lowest dps? Funny wall of text.

here are the dps-tests for the classes’ respective meta-builds from last year.
note that necro has not received any mayor buffs to their dps since then.

http://www.dtguilds.com/forum/m/6563292/viewthread/13987449-dps-estimates-for-each-professions-in-30s-battles
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1bAcpwAdwB24CxK_Ziy8ygISUHCkQepLfRMh2_PtP52o/edit?pli=1#gid=1883199869
As you clearly can see in the spreadsheet, necro has the single lowest dps in a vacuum without warri or ranger in a group, and even together with them never excels past the 7th rank

Please consider to inform yourself before you disregard any arguments in the future.
And besides that, this wall of text is still waiting for a reasonable rebuttal from you or anyone else.
Have a nice day.

Arantheal knows what he’s talking about.

Engi’s can’t do everything at once, aren’t the best at anything, but aren’t bad at anything either. In a game with no real trinity system this is actually really nice.

Arantheal.7396:

sorrychief.2563:

Necro lowest dps? Funny wall of text.

here are the dps-tests for the classes’ respective meta-builds from last year.
note that necro has not received any mayor buffs to their dps since then.

http://www.dtguilds.com/forum/m/6563292/viewthread/13987449-dps-estimates-for-each-professions-in-30s-battles
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1bAcpwAdwB24CxK_Ziy8ygISUHCkQepLfRMh2_PtP52o/edit?pli=1#gid=1883199869
As you clearly can see in the spreadsheet, necro has the single lowest dps in a vacuum without warri or ranger in a group, and even together with them never excels past the 7th rank

Please consider to inform yourself before you disregard any arguments in the future.
And besides that, this wall of text is still waiting for a reasonable rebuttal from you or anyone else.
Have a nice day.

For someone that likes to write alot you sure can’t read.

sorrychief.2563:

Arantheal.7396:

sorrychief.2563:

Necro lowest dps? Funny wall of text.

here are the dps-tests for the classes’ respective meta-builds from last year.
note that necro has not received any mayor buffs to their dps since then.

http://www.dtguilds.com/forum/m/6563292/viewthread/13987449-dps-estimates-for-each-professions-in-30s-battles
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1bAcpwAdwB24CxK_Ziy8ygISUHCkQepLfRMh2_PtP52o/edit?pli=1#gid=1883199869
As you clearly can see in the spreadsheet, necro has the single lowest dps in a vacuum without warri or ranger in a group, and even together with them never excels past the 7th rank

Please consider to inform yourself before you disregard any arguments in the future.
And besides that, this wall of text is still waiting for a reasonable rebuttal from you or anyone else.
Have a nice day.

For someone that likes to write alot you sure can’t read.

This is not a contest, so using ad-hominem as some kind of immature come-back is entirely unnecessary.
I guess we’re done here, then.
Thx for the laugh anyways.

Well I’m not too sure about contests, you wrote I “over-exagerate things” but everything in my post a good engineer can reasonably do unless we’re playing a different game.

Also those charts for guard dps seem kinda low.

The reason of the low guard dps in the sheet is that
a) this was their dps in a 30sec time-span and their biggest bursts are on 10 seconds or more cd. if it were not for the strong sword AA to gap these long cd’s, their dps would be even lower.
b) they were tested in a vacuum / with banners / with spotter / both.
That means guards had to rely on their own might-stacking and vulnerability-stacking, both of which are poorly.
In decent groups with 25 might&vuln all their +dmg% modifiers bolster their dps dramatically, making them becoming the dps powerhouse that you observed them as.

If you look into ele, they have much higher average might-stacks, and engi comes with the biggest vuln-uptime. The reason for that is that they bring it themselves, hence their personal dps is higher.

also no, engi can’t maintain (or even burst-stack)25 stacks of might, with builds that still do decent dps. We still can blast often, so we contribute to keeping 25 stacks of might in the group, but when you look at engi on his own, he’s not able to do so.

I think you are forgetting engineer can swap out to different weapons/utilities/kits after prestacking 25 might solo or in a group without additional help from runes/sigils.

Please explain how you stack 25 might (9 blast in a row, in less then 10 seconds) with nothing but kits, toss elixir B and HT, because the throw mine and turrets in general go on cd’s when blown up so you can’t swap them before your might has run out again…

Again, you make up completely impossible claims, and we both know that engi is not capable of doing this.
Unless you post a full 9-blast combo with nothing but HT and kits in under 10sec (duration of napalm) I assume you’re just trolling at this point and therefore I’ll end the conversation here.

https://youtu.be/2jkVwIhX1qg

Although to be fair the person in the video did not use his supply crate as an extra blast finisher and only used 2 turrets. Also, I’m not sure if this method of stacking might is still able to be done.

Why do you assume I’m trolling? I thought combo fields and might stacking were a pretty solid mechanikittenil anet introduced PS.

edit: What’s with this silly kitten in my post? For an engineer main you sure don’t know much about the class.

Rozbuska.5263:

My party always kick teefs and taking something usefull instead I love how upset they always are:-P Sad truth is not many ppl know engi can stealth I met handfull of ppl 15k+ AP who tried convince me that engi cant stealth:-)

we really need to stop thinking like achievement points mean anything when it comes to ability.

Admittedly, I had never seen that before. point on you.
Anyways, he was swaping to shield&back to rifle, switched to kit-refinement and back, and aligned his inventory and trait-window perfectly to hover with his mouse close between them and his utility-bar to swap even faster…

So I guess the reason I’ve never seen that before is that I never tried this hard to pre-stack might for the next 20sec…
Yes, it’s possible, but is it viable in terms of cost/gain? oO
I guess that is a matter of personal taste.

Anyways, you can stop the baseless assumptions now. I’m very well aware of what the engineer is capable of, and my initial comment to your initial post still remains the same: Engineer is the jack of all trades and master of none, unless you show me how to keep up 25 stacks of might&vulnerability in combat on your own, while still doing the max-dps rota…

lol

Few things.

Engi can prestack 24 might but only maintains <10 in meta builds unless there is an outside source of Fire Fields. You’ll get 12 stacks at the beginning but requires the use of Healing Turret just for the blast not the heal, so might not be a good idea. But, with the recast on Napalm unless you have it traited and strength runes you’re going to see the might fall off, hence the <10 avg.

Vuln, we’ll keep about 10-15 going, with bursts of up to 20 on a boss, again in meta build.

You can prestack 25 might with Supply Crate but it’s kinda silly to do considering it’s possible impact in a fight for both it’s effect and keeping might going during a fight.

Quick video I put together a while ago because I hadn’t seen another video of it (the one sorrychief posted is much faster with it and included the kit refinement mine I didn’t think about apparently, I fumbled around just to get clips quickly) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6WOrSAivlg

Note, in the second set I leave out Acid bomb because you’ll want that going into the fight for burst damage and of course the second Flame Blast for the same reason/speed.

Engi’s are certainly good, but the “master of none” fits quite well in many cases. Their niches are sustained Vuln which we do great, but with current meta’s burst is just far more important where War/Ele can surely compete with us if not exceed. And then there’s Immob uptime, which we still have that niche on lockdown.

We can contribute quite a bit to might, and we do amazing at vuln but we don’t cap either out while running our high damage builds. We need help to do so. That said, have a staff Ele or two and might shouldn’t be an issue and your group can easily contribute to vuln leading to a situation capped on both.

Engi’s are that universal cog, we can slot in and fill many roles, contribute to others, and still come out shining high on the damage.

And I still bow to the thief for Stealths as they can just drop a black powder, I just contribute with quick blasts through Flame Blast, Rumble, Shield blast, Acid Bomb, and Healing Turret detonate. But, yes we can do it, and paired with Elixir S we can get through most skips easily, it’s mainly just the pathing skips where we struggle, or long skips like say Ascalon Fractal (which can still be done quite easily with your group contributing and finding a save spot for a couple seconds)

^ this
/15scharrs

I hope people don’t believe that, “jack of all trades master of none” thing. Engi can stack might, vuln, stealth just as well as any other class and provide rngesus projectile hate and condi cleanses.

sorrychief.2563:

I hope people don’t believe that, “jack of all trades master of none” thing. Engi can stack might, vuln, stealth just as well as any other class and provide rngesus projectile hate and condi cleanses.

It’s really sad to see you say this even after the guys above showed that this isn’t true. The fact of the matter is you can’t stack might as well as an ele or warrior, you can’t stack stealth as well as a thief, and you don’t provide nearly as much reflect as a guard or mes. You can keep blindly believing what you want, but that will never change the facts.

If you really believe you can do this, I challenge you to make a video. I expect you to upkeep 25 might, 25 vuln, stealth your group really quickly, and provide 100% uptime on reflects. Unless I’m misunderstanding that is what you claim engis can do.

I claim only what I write. There are just some people who can’t read. 100% uptime on reflects? I never wrote anything like that too. :P

From what I’ve seen from the engineer’s I normally run dungeons with, they can do a bit of everything. I don’t find an engineer’s inability to play up every utility and bring all the DPS at the same time with any given build to be a major downside. Most classes have to swap weapons, utilities, or traits to make the most out of any given encounter.

As far as stealth, I’d prefer to have a thief, but it is REALLY nice to have an engi as an extra source, or as a replacement. You didn’t mention, but I do hope the guards weren’t trying to use empower instead of blasting your fire field. Empower is nice if there isn’t another option (such as the group not wanting to work together) but the duration compared to fire field+blast finisher might is just sad.

It might just be the way my normal dungeon group works, but we usually use our engineer’s flamethrower fire field. Between his normal blast finishers and my thief’s shortbow 2, we never miss out on full might stacks.

sorrychief.2563:

I claim only what I write. There are just some people who can’t read. 100% uptime on reflects? I never wrote anything like that too. :P

Yea, and what you write changes from post to post, looking on the top of the thread you said engi can stack 25 might, then you get told that this is impossible for engineer during a fight. Then you show a [admittedly impressive] vid where someone prestacks 24 stacks of might with mechanics that are impossible to execute mid-combat, after which -again- people point out that this is impossible to keep up in a fight. Your final post is “we can stack might as well as any other class”, and people again tell you “yes, we can, but there are classes who do it more easily and with less sacrifices to their dps”, which you then simply ignore and keep pretending you are right, with zero proof or evidence.
This is what people perceive as trolling. This is why you receive so much resistance at most places that you go [source: your post-history]. If you have nothing to contribute but your reality-dispatched imagination, based on something you’ve seen in a showcase vid in LA, I’d kindly ask you to stop posting here, so this forum can continue to be helpful to people who are new on the class, or have specific questions to certain class-related mechanics.
Ty.

I’ve been entirely helpful in my posts as you mentioned however it wasn’t my video. Newer players might like to learn what their class is capable of from that video. Also I’ve never said an engineer could stack 25 might during a fight in any of posts. Where are you guys getting this from? I merely posted evidence engineer could prestack might for a team if the situation demands it, as can they stack stealth and provide rngesus projectile hate if such additional support is needed.

Engineer is more like “Jack of all stats, master of all”.

sorrychief.2563:

Also I’ve never said an engineer could stack 25 might during a fight in any of posts. Where are you guys getting this from?

see

sorrychief.2563:

Most players don’t even know engi has higher dps than most classes besides ele in pve.

I hope people don’t believe that, “jack of all trades master of none” thing. Engi can stack 25 might, 25 vuln, cleanse condis, stealth, dps, projectile reflect/destruction, solo dungeons like arah.

Please don’t additionally start to lie.
This thread is already a mess without that happening.

Anyways, I’m out.
I can not see this going into any sort of productive outcome anymore.

For someone that likes to write alot you sure can’t read.

iirc engineer can maintain 25 vuln on a champ solo with condi duration food, sigil of fraility and some luck from precise sights.

sorrychief.2563:

For someone that likes to write alot you sure can’t read.

iirc engineer can maintain 25 vuln on a champ solo with condi duration food, sigil of fraility and some luck from precise sights.

Naw, with all that you’re more at around 15-20 max with meta setups, may burst to 25 with a good grenade barrage, but the fall fast. Frailty is iirc 1 extra vuln. Precise sights will give you an extra 1.5 vuln for every grenade skill you throw assuming max crit and RNG doesn’t hate you. But of course you’re not always spamming grenades but rotating through big hitters which takes away from your vuln production, but an overall gain in dps, especially with say Acid Bomb or Jump shot (which contributes vuln too), but even so with Flame Blast and Blunderbuss. Grenade spam is somewhere between 60-70% of your potential damage running the rotation.

To do some rough math, with 8.5 duration on your vuln with what you said. You’re at about 4.5 stacks of vuln per second spamming grenades ignoring frailty. Meaning in 8.5s you’ll stack up 38.5 stacks of vuln, but the durations are halved, so you’re really only getting 4.25 on a champ, and thusly getting 19.125, add in the ~1 stack from Frailty and you’re at about 20. But, again, that’s not counting the Vuln loss you’ll see from rotating properly for damage (or defense with toolkit or whatever), which is why it’s more around 15 with Meta but you can get up to 20 if you play inefficiently, a silver lining to being bad

As a note, something I’d considered but never tried to do the rough math on for whatever reason. Pretty sure Peril is superior to Frailty for Engi. If you use it you go up to a 10.25 duration on your grenade vuln, meaning 5.125 on champ and 23 stacks of vuln with grenade spam. But, again, with a good damage rotation you’ll drop to sub 20 still.

So, yeah, 15-20 with meta setup is basically the expectation people should have. But, that’s still great, and with a current Meta Warrior running Axe/Mace rotation with Rending Strikes, well between the two of you, you’re good, as they should be popping in with ~10 stacks themselves IIRC.

As for the Might thing, not looking to get into an argument over semantics, but when you state strait up “engi’s can stack 25 might” my interpretation is that you’re saying they can maintain it, if you were to say “engi’s can prestack 25 might” I’d nod and agree. But, agian, semantics, and I do want to say thank you for that video, never though of the kit refinement blast, always thought we were capped at 21(24 with supply crate), but I still prefer not to do that and instead go with the quick blast saving my burst for the upcoming fight and just doing 15 myself, expecting the additional 4 blasts from my teammates who should be able to contribute. Or just charging in with the might rotation if might’s something we need.

Jerus.4350:

sorrychief.2563:

For someone that likes to write alot you sure can’t read.

iirc engineer can maintain 25 vuln on a champ solo with condi duration food, sigil of fraility and some luck from precise sights.

Naw, with all that you’re more at around 15-20 max with meta setups, may burst to 25 with a good grenade barrage, but the fall fast. Frailty is iirc 1 extra vuln. Precise sights will give you an extra 1.5 vuln for every grenade skill you throw assuming max crit and RNG doesn’t hate you. But of course you’re not always spamming grenades but rotating through big hitters which takes away from your vuln production, but an overall gain in dps, especially with say Acid Bomb or Jump shot (which contributes vuln too), but even so with Flame Blast and Blunderbuss. Grenade spam is somewhere between 60-70% of your potential damage running the rotation.

To do some rough math, with 8.5 duration on your vuln with what you said. You’re at about 4.5 stacks of vuln per second spamming grenades ignoring frailty. Meaning in 8.5s you’ll stack up 38.5 stacks of vuln, but the durations are halved, so you’re really only getting 4.25 on a champ, and thusly getting 19.125, add in the ~1 stack from Frailty and you’re at about 20. But, again, that’s not counting the Vuln loss you’ll see from rotating properly for damage (or defense with toolkit or whatever), which is why it’s more around 15 with Meta but you can get up to 20 if you play inefficiently, a silver lining to being bad

As a note, something I’d considered but never tried to do the rough math on for whatever reason. Pretty sure Peril is superior to Frailty for Engi. If you use it you go up to a 10.25 duration on your grenade vuln, meaning 5.125 on champ and 23 stacks of vuln with grenade spam. But, again, with a good damage rotation you’ll drop to sub 20 still.

So, yeah, 15-20 with meta setup is basically the expectation people should have. But, that’s still great, and with a current Meta Warrior running Axe/Mace rotation with Rending Strikes, well between the two of you, you’re good, as they should be popping in with ~10 stacks themselves IIRC.

That’s good stuff right there. Can’t argue with the math and numbers you provided.

Arantheal.7396:

sorry chief, but don’t over-exagerate things.
keeping vuln. up on 25 stacks requires continually spamming nades, nade barrage and jumpshot. the acid bomb / napalm tick helps with vuln., but when you then start on blasting napalm all the time with HT, Acid Bomb and FT #2, you start rotating so often that you overall vuln.-output goes way below 20 stacks, while you’ll never be able to blast more than 15-18 stacks might continually, not to mention that you’ll still need to do dps with keeping nades #2 + #4 & blunderbus on cd, so while trying to do everything at once, you start lacking performance in all aspects.
DPS + vuln works.
DPS + might-stacking (and some drive-by vuln.) works.
Vuln. + might stacking (and some drive-by dps) works.
Trying to achieve all three together in a stable rotation results in being mediocre in all of them.

Yes, we are very versatile, and can combo a few roles together in a single build, but we’re not able to do everything you listed on the same time, and looking specifically into each and every single one of these jobs, other classes will excel there…

thief brings highest boss-dps, ele brings highest dps in general.
2 Phalanx warris cap might with GS easily for the group
Guardians will cleanse more condis more often
thiefs are superior when it comes to stealth-skips
projectile reflect is more welcomed than destruction, and guardian has a way shorter cd on his reflects than us, along with a 100% reliability (unless you count fortified turrets, which tends to bug out lately, especially for rifle-turret, and forces you to go 6 into inventions, therefore either giving up on grenadier or mod. ammunition)
The only thing engi is best in is vuln. stacking, and if necro wouldn’t suffer from the lowest dps, they’d excel us in the aspects windup-time and reliability in upkeep.

Necromancer doesn’t have the lowest dps. You have been mislead.

Would people please read the full thread before commenting on old posts?