Guild Wars 2

GC Elementalist Staff with sigils:
Fireball 2.4k-3k with splash on crit

GC Thief shortbow with sigils:
Cluster Bomb: 7k AE on crit, has ground targeting and slow flight time

GC Engineer grenade PRE-NERF no sigils:
Grenade: 3 × 900(IF ALL THREE CRIT) = 2.7k AE, has ground targeting and slow flight time

GC Engineer grenade with sigils POST-NERF:
Grenade: 3 × 600(IF ALL THREE CRIT) = 1.8k AE, has ground targeting and slow flight time

As anyone can see it was far from OP before…now it is gutted. Other professions already out damaged our AE and they had use of sigils…These numbers are tested with nearly full GC grenade build damage(Mainly Berserkers). I can say first hand how disheartening it is to spend a great amount of time and gold into getting a berserker grenade build set for the engineer only to have that gear become nearly worthless. Please be aware Anet that massive nerfs like this make people not want to play, and if a great deal of time and gold is invested in a character build that gets completely gutted, it makes them not want to buy gems or give back to Anet in any way shape or form… Its sad, but it is the truth :/

So please Anet, could you answer these two questions for the engineer community:

What is your reasoning behind this? If the response is sigils, then please compare other classes who already had use of sigils and how exactly it warrants a 30% nerf.

Do you have someone dedicated to playtesting the engineer(Current decisions have made many people, myself included, question Anets judgement and feel as if our profession is either unplayed or our advocate really does not care about his/her job and is giving bad information/results)?

Thanks for any feedback in advance.

i actually agree i do see other engineers but engineers are underpowered. they do excellent condition removal for a party ad some hit or miss support like the reflect wall /blind/invisibility. i dont pvp much but i can remember when paragons were all the craze in pvp because theyd make a party invincible. the engineers arent oped like this in any way. but anet “fixed” the paragons then left them to rot. they were and are basically a forgotten class in gw 1 . even though i like their idea and mechanic. dont do this to any class in gw 2 please anet.

Actually it makes perfect sense when you consider the target to be a training dummy. I mean ele’s have cooldown on their AoE and thieves have initiative costs, whereas grenades are eternally spammable. On a stationary target that’s just steady and impressive DPS!

…What do you mean mobs move? What does that have to do with math on paper, especially as it concerns the other examples, too? Who cares about the actual performance versus the potential that could possibly be squeezed out?

Incidentally be glad they still allow you to toss grenades behind you while running. Probably the best use in small-scale PvP is to throw them at your feet behind you as if they were bombs.

LegoTechnic.5910:

Actually it makes perfect sense when you consider the target to be a training dummy. I mean ele’s have cooldown on their AoE and thieves have initiative costs, whereas grenades are eternally spammable. On a stationary target that’s just steady and impressive DPS!

…What do you mean mobs move? What does that have to do with math on paper, especially as it concerns the other examples, too? Who cares about the actual performance versus the potential that could possibly be squeezed out?

Incidentally be glad they still allow you to toss grenades behind you while running. Probably the best use in small-scale PvP is to throw them at your feet behind you as if they were bombs.

How come fireball has a cooldown? it’s skill 1 in staff fire attunement and it has splash damage with auto-aim.

Sentinel VX.1392:

LegoTechnic.5910:

Actually it makes perfect sense when you consider the target to be a training dummy. I mean ele’s have cooldown on their AoE and thieves have initiative costs, whereas grenades are eternally spammable. On a stationary target that’s just steady and impressive DPS!

…What do you mean mobs move? What does that have to do with math on paper, especially as it concerns the other examples, too? Who cares about the actual performance versus the potential that could possibly be squeezed out?

Incidentally be glad they still allow you to toss grenades behind you while running. Probably the best use in small-scale PvP is to throw them at your feet behind you as if they were bombs.

How come fireball has a cooldown? it’s skill 1 in staff fire attunement and it has splash damage with auto-aim.

…That was me misidentifying which skill “fireball” was. >_>;

ure not really tossing them behind you ..ure just running faster than you throw them

LegoTechnic.5910:

Actually it makes perfect sense when you consider the target to be a training dummy. I mean ele’s have cooldown on their AoE and thieves have initiative costs, whereas grenades are eternally spammable. On a stationary target that’s just steady and impressive DPS!

…What do you mean mobs move? What does that have to do with math on paper, especially as it concerns the other examples, too? Who cares about the actual performance versus the potential that could possibly be squeezed out?

Incidentally be glad they still allow you to toss grenades behind you while running. Probably the best use in small-scale PvP is to throw them at your feet behind you as if they were bombs.

Elementalist:
Fireball is staff skill #1 spammable…

Thief:
Cluster Bomb only costs 3 initiative(thief skills range between 2 as its lowest and 6 at its highest initiative costs), so it is spammable…

LegoTechnic.5910:

Sentinel VX.1392:

LegoTechnic.5910:

Actually it makes perfect sense when you consider the target to be a training dummy. I mean ele’s have cooldown on their AoE and thieves have initiative costs, whereas grenades are eternally spammable. On a stationary target that’s just steady and impressive DPS!

…What do you mean mobs move? What does that have to do with math on paper, especially as it concerns the other examples, too? Who cares about the actual performance versus the potential that could possibly be squeezed out?

Incidentally be glad they still allow you to toss grenades behind you while running. Probably the best use in small-scale PvP is to throw them at your feet behind you as if they were bombs.

How come fireball has a cooldown? it’s skill 1 in staff fire attunement and it has splash damage with auto-aim.

…That was me misidentifying which skill “fireball” was. >_>;

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Staff#Elementalist I guess you thought it’s the meteor shower.

You guys forgot to say grenades scatter, just to say… did you try poison grenade recently? it scatters the most (even more than pre-patch imo), even at 600 range

Sentinel VX.1392:

LegoTechnic.5910:

Sentinel VX.1392:

LegoTechnic.5910:

Actually it makes perfect sense when you consider the target to be a training dummy. I mean ele’s have cooldown on their AoE and thieves have initiative costs, whereas grenades are eternally spammable. On a stationary target that’s just steady and impressive DPS!

…What do you mean mobs move? What does that have to do with math on paper, especially as it concerns the other examples, too? Who cares about the actual performance versus the potential that could possibly be squeezed out?

Incidentally be glad they still allow you to toss grenades behind you while running. Probably the best use in small-scale PvP is to throw them at your feet behind you as if they were bombs.

How come fireball has a cooldown? it’s skill 1 in staff fire attunement and it has splash damage with auto-aim.

…That was me misidentifying which skill “fireball” was. >_>;

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Staff#Elementalist I guess you thought it’s the meteor shower.

I avoided going into AE cooldowns on classes compared to engineer…mainly because when you start doing the numbers on the big AEs(Meteor Shower/30 second cooldown 4k+ on crit compared to Engineer poison grenade/25 second cooldown…poison damage over time) it really makes GC engineers look like a profession not worth playing…before the nerf GC engineer was viable, now it is not even close. The other reason is they arent spammable and since it was grenade #1 that was gutted(our sustained damage), comparing the two was far more complicated than showing the simple numbers of other GC profession spam abilities.

LegoTechnic.5910:

Actually it makes perfect sense when you consider the target to be a training dummy.

You just hit the nail on the head.

Arenanet doesnt test any of this in actual combat situations, merely on stationairy target dummies.
Not to long ago we saw a similar little roar from the Mesmer forum about, i believe their iBerserker. Something about it being to hard to hit people due to the delay before it would attacl.
And the response from Anet was “its damage was fine on the target dummies”. Caused a bit of a stirr.

If they just test grenades against targetdummies, well… it explains a lot.

…I hope they actually have dummies that can affected by critical hits, then. And that might also explain why turrets get nothing; they keep testing them on dummies.

Now, I don’t play much in the area of sPvP, and WvW I keep my Engineer on Supply duty (unless they remove the permenant swiftness next patch). From what I have seen and read from the recent changes to the Grenade Kit (30% nerf, but Sigils and 15% bleeding via traits), are pretty concerning, though if they were to make the #1, #2 and #3 skills auto-aim on a target as it does underwater the ‘nerf’ wouldn’t seem so bad.

Terrahero.9358:

Arenanet doesnt test any of this in actual combat situations, merely on stationairy target dummies.

Also another point to note – the Engineer does have some decent control abilities, if utilized correctly you’d only have still targets. Unfotunately that limits you to 1 v 1 combat. Although Off-hand Pistol and Bomb Kit skills #5 would play some benefit in stalling 2-3 players until you can either combo invis or sprint away

That might be just my experience in WvW and PvE talking though – knowing that I assess the situation and switch out the skills before combat starts regardless of what build and gear I have.

LegoTechnic.5910:

Actually it makes perfect sense when you consider the target to be a training dummy. I mean ele’s have cooldown on their AoE and thieves have initiative costs, whereas grenades are eternally spammable. On a stationary target that’s just steady and impressive DPS!

…What do you mean mobs move? What does that have to do with math on paper, especially as it concerns the other examples, too? Who cares about the actual performance versus the potential that could possibly be squeezed out?

Incidentally be glad they still allow you to toss grenades behind you while running. Probably the best use in small-scale PvP is to throw them at your feet behind you as if they were bombs.

Since we’re talking standing targets, fireball is the ele auto and they can cast lava font and also aoe burning with basically no loss of fireball dps to greatly increase their damage output. You can also cast it while the last half of meteor shower is going off. I think the cast rate on fireball is a bit slower than grenades, though.

If you were really picky about it, you could make a thief build that basically had the ability to spam cluster bomb nonstop at medium range. Don’t forget that you can also apply three guaranteed stacks of bleeding with each. After a certain range though, thief loses out in that you can’t really just spam it super fast though, otherwise you’re just going to detonate the previous one before it reaches anywhere near the target. It’s probably a ton stronger than grenades at close range, but weaker at a range due to the travel time and detonation mechanics.