Guild Wars 2

So ive gotten really into engi recently, i was wondering about the new update, if there are any new meta builds or how i should change my build. Did this update help engineers?

What mode are you playing? PvE, WvW, PvP?

On the PvE side of things, u still have to kit swap (for condi builds) or camp the bomb kit (for power builds), game is relatively unchanged, will have to wait for xpac to shake things up.

Can’t comment on WvW or PvP.

Longtime rifle engi here. I gave it up for a long time, but out of curiousity a friend of mine has been running it today. Going zerker while boosting up your precision a lot helps so far or using marauders (if you already had it set up). Using rifle with 3 gyros, rocket boots, and the fixed traits (explosives, tools, scrapper). The rapid regen sustains nicely still especially with the added rocket boots that give you the superspeed (which in turn gives you the rapid regen). They were doing rifle 5 for 8000+ damage. You definitely need to make sure you got that stab before you try it though. I was even thinking about dropping a gyro for the new oil slick utility now that it cripples. All around a much more kitey rifle build again so might be fun? I haven’t got home to put my efforts into it yet but I definitely am going to.

It looks like they are finally taking some steps in the right direction, but it’s not enough. Most of the builds that are currently viable will remain that way, but it looks like at least gadgets are starting to get some love.

I have some ideas for the new gadgets + shield condition build. It’s still a bit too early to make any calls though.

rocket boots look really nice now. WvW condi roaming builds might make good use of it.

The new explosion traits might make mine come into play with PvE power builds.
And if minesweeper mines remove boons, then it could find its way into pvp too…

Lots of things to test

I did a few tests in PVE, mostly for the scrapper. Explosives/Firearms/Scrapper.

The first thing that I noticed is that camping bomb kit has lost quite a bit of power. Originally, in a no-might scenario the bomb kit + hammer combo had roughly equal damage to pure hammer, but after the update pure hammer had higher damage than swapping between hammer and bomb kit. The only consistently added buff that I tested on was fury. In a maximum might scenario, hammer dps and mixed bomb kit + hammer dps were equalized.

On the one hand, this is more convenient for me, since I found constantly swapping between bomb kit for damage and hammer for utility to be annoying, particularly because it made shock shield a much less reliable block. On the other hand, this doesn’t really represent a buff to hammer insomuch as it represents a nerf to bombs.

I also did a bunch of tests to compare the various traits and their damage output. Both with no might and maximum might. Always under fury. The results were the following:

Glass Cannon vs. Blasting Zone: Glass cannon is the superior trait and any level of might, but the difference between the two grows substantially as you gain more might. For reference, a power scrapper has around 2657 attack at base, and 5% of this is the equivalent to 132.9 bonus power. At maximum might this is 3407 power and 170.4 additional power. It beats out blasting zone, so long as you can maintain Glass Cannon for 90%-70% of the time. However, if you constantly find yourself beaten down or you’re not running a power build, Blasting Zone will beat out glass cannon.

Vanilla Engi is slightly different, sitting at 127.9 effective power at base, but this still demonstrates the superiority of Glass Cannon.

Aim Assisted Rocket vs. Big Boomer: Rocket is the superior trait at any level of might or fury. The damage bonus from boomer simply isn’t much, only about 9% crit damage (changing 220% to 229%). The vitality exists, but 1.3k health isn’t really a significant bonus.

I can’t find any game mode where you would take Big Boomer. Power builds will take rocket, condi builds would take short fuse.

Orbital Command vs. Shrapnel: In low might situations, Orbital Command is better. In high might situations, Shrapnel is better with the bomb kit. It is fairly self explanatory: If you have the might to back it up, the bleed is worthwhile. If you don’t, then it isn’t.

Mine Trail vs. Shrapnel. This is where things get a bit more… unusual. For this test I added an additional condition: vigor, dodge when possible. You can debate the practicality of it all later. But, at maximum might and fury, Mine Trail and Shrapnel is roughly equal. At low might, Mine Trail beats Shrapnel. If you dodge at any less than maximum frequency under vigor, Shrapnel or Orbital Command beat Mine Trail, depending on might status.

For Vanilla Engi, Mine Trail is better than Shrapnel, at any might situation, at point blank range.

The grandmaster traits are hard to compare, largely because they are all vastly different in nature. The pure DPS analysis ignores quite a few things. The pros that Orbital Command is an unblockable AoE attack that triggers at range and is a blast finisher aren’t things one can simply dismiss. I can’t dismiss that alacrity helps it, either. Orbital command is really consistent and easy to use, but in ideal conditions it is the weakest option, inferior to Shrapnel in PVE if you have the might. Mine Trail is theoretically the strongest option, but it is also highly impractical and obtuse to use, requiring you to dodge through immobile opponents to get maximum damage. Mine Trail is also excellent in PVP, both for invulnerable damage and area control.

The scales of damage between these are not far. Under a full might + fury scenario, the numbers I’m getting for DPS are 9,190 for OC, 9,599 for Shrapnel, 9,554 for Mine Trail. We’re talking about differences of around 4% in damage total. At max might, pure hammer does 9,101 DPS with OC, 9,498 with Mine Trail.

For a newbie with a sub-par group, I would recommend Blasting Zone, Aim Assisted Rocket, Orbital Command with the weapon of your choice. For an experienced player with a good group, I would recommend Glass Cannon, Aim Assisted Rocket, Shrapnel while focusing on bombs and grenades. Only take Mine Trail in situations where you know you’ll reliably use it (I.E. against Ensolyss where you’ll dodge through a lot of his attacks and he’s always in your face).

For vanilla engi I get about 10,179 with Mine Trail, 9,572 with Shrapnel.

Blood Red Arachnid, good analytic post. Thanks for the work.

Is there a power build that would work in high lvl fractals that doesn’t involve camping the bomb kit? I’m new to engi and I just can’t stand that the main attack animation I see is squatting down and placing a big bomb lol.

jief.2509:

Is there a power build that would work in high lvl fractals that doesn’t involve camping the bomb kit? I’m new to engi and I just can’t stand that the main attack animation I see is squatting down and placing a big bomb lol.

Welcome to the club of anti bombers. We are few, but with the changes to bombs aa well be more… I can’t really help you with the build, fisrt because I’m not playing high lvl fractals yet, second because the balance patch from yesterday really changed a lot.

Better to wait a little to see what good builds appear from here to a week. There will be a couple new and good ones, I’m sure.

if the animations really bother you, just use grenades any time you would camp bomb kit and it’s only a small dps loss and you also get range. however, letting something as silly as animations get in the way of you doing the best you can in challenging content isn’t really a great mindset to have.

insanemaniac.2456:

if the animations really bother you, just use grenades any time you would camp bomb kit and it’s only a small dps loss and you also get range. however, letting something as silly as animations get in the way of you doing the best you can in challenging content isn’t really a great mindset to have.

I just believe in doing the best that I can while also enjoying my character. I know its not a popular idea but if I really can’t stand the way my character looks while I am playing, then I can’t really say I enjoy playing them. People have been doing high lvl content with sub optimal builds for a while so I’m not really worried about that.

I just don’t like that my character looks like he’s taking a deuce every few seconds.

jief.2509:

Is there a power build that would work in high lvl fractals that doesn’t involve camping the bomb kit? I’m new to engi and I just can’t stand that the main attack animation I see is squatting down and placing a big bomb lol.

I’ve done a few more tests, and the advantage that bomb kit has over hammer (for scrapper) has dwindled severely.

Going with every buff (no food) and every condition, camping hammer averages around 26k, whether you use Rocket Charge or not. Camping Bomb kit and only switching to hammer for thunderclap does about 27.5k damage. While this is better, it isn’t that much better. Vanilla engi camping the bomb kit does around 28-29k.

It is unfortunate, but peak engi performance was nerfed this patch.

Running behind the meta no matter how repetitive, boring or bad looking it is for you is a terrible mindset to have. (Specially if you convince yourself that is what it means to do the best you can).

Ardid.7203:

Running behind the meta no matter how repetitive, boring or bad looking it is for you is a terrible mindset to have. (Specially if you convince yourself that is what it means to do the best you can).

Why would I play a video game if I’m not having fun?

Shrekinator.6340:

So ive gotten really into engi recently, i was wondering about the new update, if there are any new meta builds or how i should change my build. Did this update help engineers?

In PVE I play support with pistol shield heal turret thumper turret rocket turret rocket boots and supply drop.

I’m able to use the explosives from traits now without a loss of dps while also doing condi damage and having loads of cc. It’s so nice.

I can now confirm its amazing for rifle builds if you know what you are doing. I’m eccstatic to have my favorite weapon and class back in wvw.

I think for spvp and wvw there is a “new” entry. AED is finally viable and it can be something new. I am not saying it will be meta , but with aed you can build with tools and have a good heal and a good condi clean so it is something that make core engi much better. This is true in particular for wvw and spvp .

Unfortunatelly AED still doesn’t work with AMR trait and it doesn’t get refreshed at 25% HP

leviathan.2148:

Unfortunatelly AED still doesn’t work with AMR trait and it doesn’t get refreshed at 25% HP

For me it is not that great problem. I don’t like AMR for its cd on 120 Secs i find AMR an overstated trait. If i take invention i usually take autodefense bomb dispenser . I find it much better and the 20 sec cd is great. If you have a blast ready you can easily stealth so i find it much better than AMR . AED traited now has a 24 cd but if you consider that the cd start as soon as you use it and not when you really heal the cd is quite often much shorter so i find it great. The only “problem” with aed is that it is an high risk , high reward skill and if you find an opponent who don’t attack you and wait to the end before attaching you are in trouble … but this is the “high risk” of the skill . Now i really like it and with the condi remove that it brings i think it can open to many different builds , coupled with rocket boots now it is great becouse if you have RB ready , if the heal goes wrong you can easily escape .. find them togegher a really great setup . I also like the AED toolbet with RB now becouse the daze and the RB toolbet after can do really good damage in a condi damage setup . You have a good burst even without Flamethrower and for me, who hate ft , it is a great change

jief.2509:

Ardid.7203:

Running behind the meta no matter how repetitive, boring or bad looking it is for you is a terrible mindset to have. (Specially if you convince yourself that is what it means to do the best you can).

Why would I play a video game if I’m not having fun?

Beats me, really. But there are a lot of people playing games with a “must win at ANY cost” mentality, clearly don’t having much fun, and worse, trying to impose that way to play to others.

With the KB change and changes to the tools and explosives lines, I have been having an incredible increase in burst damage on my rifle build.

Did anyone try the Lock-on “Striking a foe while you’re stealthed triggers Invisible Analysis”? I toyed with it a bit but it doesn’t seem to trigger if when I hit someone from invisible.

Krag.6210:

Did anyone try the Lock-on “Striking a foe while you’re stealthed triggers Invisible Analysis”? I toyed with it a bit but it doesn’t seem to trigger if when I hit someone from invisible.

Have you tried hitting an invisible enemy to trigger “Invisible Analysis”? (you yourself don’t have to be invisible)

The old “Lock On” would trigger “Analyze” when you hitted a stealthed enemy so I assume they just wrote an incorrect tooltip like they often do.

“Controlled Analysis” triggers when you hard cc the enemy (it has a seperate 25s icd).

santenal.1054:

Have you tried hitting an invisible enemy to trigger “Invisible Analysis”? (you yourself don’t have to be invisible)

The old “Lock On” would trigger “Analyze” when you hitted a stealthed enemy so I assume they just wrote an incorrect tooltip like they often do.

This probably still works but I was interested in that new tooltip…

Rocket Boots also fit really great with spvp now, in a condi build.
Rocket kick was already good but now we also get great mobility from the boots.
I tried condi scrapper with rocket boots and it did worked good :
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQJAqancoCFpilcB+dBEqiF2iC8DLxAgO4H+lfsNGjaD-TJRHQBJpMwCPBAVY/BA8AAAA

I never liked much the condi meta, not enough apparents synergies.
But now the tool specialization make all sense, since toolkit and rocketboot are strong skills with condi attacks, and scrapper complete it nicely as it provide strong defensive options (mitigation, protection, stability, stealth) which fill the remainings slots.

NineLives.8725:

Rocket Boots also fit really great with spvp now, in a condi build.
Rocket kick was already good but now we also get great mobility from the boots.
I tried condi scrapper with rocket boots and it did worked good :
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQJAqancoCFpilcB+dBEqiF2iC8DLxAgO4H+lfsNGjaD-TJRHQBJpMwCPBAVY/BA8AAAA

I never liked much the condi meta, not enough apparents synergies.
But now the tool specialization make all sense, since toolkit and rocketboot are strong skills with condi attacks, and scrapper complete it nicely as it provide strong defensive options (mitigation, protection, stability, stealth) which fill the remainings slots.

Why take scrapper in a condi build now ? for me core engi condi now is better also for spvp . With your build you don’t have alchemy but alchemy in my opinion is stronger than scrapper in a condi setup ( only snake gyro is relevant imho in scrapper for a condi setup ) . With new gadgeteer trait you can play core engi builds in spvp much easily using aed now .

Because I prefer the gyros and their strong defensives buffs : double protection, triple stability (or adaptative armor), damage reduction, reflect, function gyro … and the great stealth which is even better as a condi engineer (hit and hide).

Alchemy have good passive purge yes, but I still can change to purge gyro when I see heavy condi opponents. I never liked Proc Elixir S as it break my current timing and action (which may be a heal) and opponents usually burst engi when it end. Drink Elixir S is good. The whole seems not enough to me.

The other choice would be to drop tool and take back alchemy, then the following trades with skills put you back fast in the old meta. For me, buffed toolkit+boots make tool specialisation worth it, even over alchemy which is no more a silver bullet.

Seen a few people posting that rifle is better now, but I’m not seeing any changes that benefited rifle. Am I missing something here?

It’s not. Its main weaknesses (huge vulnerability to stability, reflect, on-cc traits. no defense, and lack of damage on autoattack) are still problems.

It has slightly benefited from a few trait changes that let you build power more easily and IMO a few traits that benefit the rifle playstyle like Minesweeper.

It still needs a serious look by the balance team, as it hasn’t been viable since HoT was released.