Guild Wars 2

unlike other condi classes our builds require precision because most of our conditions come from criticals , so unlike others we cant runk bunker condi our condition builds are all revolving around burning so anyone running a condi build with decent cleanse will obliterate condi engi by decent i mean at least 2 cleanses , our cleanses suck if we dont run elixir trait line , and the only good cleanse we got to counter this condi spam meta currently is elixir C pretty much but good luck as this condi meta revolves around corrupting boons as well

we got no boon removal asides from mines , our skills are all specialized so they dont bring much utility on their own except for a select few
our invulnerability causes more harm than good as it interrupts whatever we do and locks our skills so we cant heal or whatever , wich makes the auto elixir S trait a curse most of the time

gyros and turrets are next to useless simply because of their lack of stats gyros even more as those dont even have a 30% damage reduction trait

gadgets i almost forgot those even existed , asides from slickshoes they are next to useless

elixirs are the only decent utilities we got

kits are useless for the most part, toolbox is semi useful, flamethrower is useless asides from its toolbelt skill and maybe #2 blast finisher, basically making this a pve kit for the most part as hammering stuff in HoT results in death mostly , grenades are a joke after the total of 60% total damage nerf and 60% range nerf ,Mortar kit is a joke after the 30% damage reduction as well it is meant to be our elite weapon with MANUAL AIMING and slow projectile speed good luck proccing the field finishers as they have to Pierce your target to actually grant the field finisher

Elixir X is useless , you’re dead if RNG gets you tornado form and good luck getting rampage form when you need it , the toolbelt is great but 3 seconds makes it useless pretty much except for interruping a target

some of our traits are beyond stupid , such as 300-500 hp heal on blast finisher
and decisive renown and static dischargethe damage on it got nerfed so hard it no longer compensates running full glass cannon for it

our pistols need rework as they stand they only got 2 useful skills the poison volley and blowtorch #3 skill used to be cool in the past because it dazed for 1 second so it could interrupt a target sometimes twice if they had an ally or minion near , good luck running a high risk hybrid build as pistol’s auto attack is a joke

our rifle is great i got no complains about it except for our self knockback even warriors copied that from us and instead of a knockback they get a quick longer range evade , and the slow net i dont think i ve seen it land 5 times on my targets and even when they did it was because i had a team mate assisting

speaking of slow our harpoon gun
it is the most counter intuitive thing i ve seen in the game so far usually slow projectiles deal higher damage to compensate for its speed or have added effects

our harpoon not only is so slow you can out swim it without swiftness
but it also has the lowest base damage and lowest damage scaling

timed charge should be our auto attack it does ok damage and burns and is pretty fast

scattermines are amazing if you actually land those as well they are extremely hard to land but those at least have massive power scaling

also seriously a 10% speed increase in our projectile speed from our Master Mayor trait that is useless asides from the 20% cooldown reduction

I would not call kits and elixir x useless for the most part (sure tornado and some kits could use buffs). Are you talking about core engi or scrapper included? The #1 on harpoon is really slow but you can use elixir gun underwater, its really fast and besides underwater combat is verry unbalanced (pet res for example) people generally dont care much about it anyway i think. As for “Anyone else think engi could be better?” in WvW roaming some core engi builds can compete with the elite specs.

santenal.1054:

I would not call kits and elixir x useless for the most part (sure tornado and some kits could use buffs). Are you talking about core engi or scrapper included? The #1 on harpoon is really slow but you can use elixir gun underwater, its really fast and besides underwater combat is verry unbalanced (pet res for example) people generally dont care much about it anyway i think. As for “Anyone else think engi could be better?” in WvW roaming some core engi builds can compete with the elite specs.

scrapper included
i gotta admit though scrapper does dominate 1 v 1 matches and 1 v 2 and some times 1 v 3s , as long theres no condi spammers though and that is why scrapper is kinda useless right now this meta is heavily dominated by necros,mesmers and revenants, now even thief has so much damage they burn through scrapper sustain even with stuff like paladin stats and adaptive armor so scrapper got reduced to a duelist

gotta say not all is to blame on engi’s kit its as well as condition damage being brought up to par with direct damage and then making amulets and gear with both power and condi damage maxed out

as for underwater, thats the thing both EG and grenades are great replacements but i’d like harpoon gun to be viable i love its concept but it is just so useless as it stands because of its slowness and it is as i said elixir X is only good when you get rampage moa altho it has short duration those 3 seconds in wvw and pvp can completely change the outcome of a match for example shutting down a lich formed necro or moaing a thief or mesmer before they stealth or moa an enemy group when they drop under 50% hp so they cant heal , the RNG is just bad elites are meant to be solid reliable skills they are meant to be trump cards.

The engi could be better. The diatribe you have regurgitated all over this post is in regards to engi lack of cleanse isn’t news. Unfortunately cleanses are a l2p issue you have to pick and choose what you cleanse, when. The ‘fix’ was supposed to be cleanse gyro. That’s all there is to say on the topic.

Sorry you can’t spam cleanse like a bunker ele. Notice how ele can’t make one mistake in dps rotation or they have to start all over. Our blocks deal damage and apply vulnerability. Scrapper is versatile, and packs a punch. Condi classes can be beat. Better tactic is rotate or double up on them ftw.

Keep at it, the frustration subsides as you get more comfortable with engi weirdness.

Rezzet.3614:

unlike other condi classes our builds require precision because most of our conditions come from criticals

this is flawed.

we get 2 burn stacks and almost meaningless bleeds from crits.

pistols, ft, bombs, and nades all have strong, noncrit based condies.

insanemaniac.2456:

Rezzet.3614:

unlike other condi classes our builds require precision because most of our conditions come from criticals

this is flawed.

we get 2 burn stacks and almost meaningless bleeds from crits.

pistols, ft, bombs, and nades all have strong, noncrit based condies.

wich i mentioned and my point with that was all we got is burning and even then bombs rely on your target being stupid and chasing you after you drop bombs or staying in place , by having our conditions focused to burning enemies can cleanse our condi damage easily

as far as condi damage in nades go all they offer is bleeding mostly and poison if you managed to land all 3 nades on a target and maybe cripple if youo manage to get the kitten ed 15% proc to work i for one must be the unluckiest guy on earth as i only get it to prove 3 times out of every 15-20 attacks and that was on golems landing all 3 nades each time

basz.6129:

The engi could be better. The diatribe you have regurgitated all over this post is in regards to engi lack of cleanse isn’t news. Unfortunately cleanses are a l2p issue you have to pick and choose what you cleanse, when. The ‘fix’ was supposed to be cleanse gyro. That’s all there is to say on the topic.

Sorry you can’t spam cleanse like a bunker ele. Notice how ele can’t make one mistake in dps rotation or they have to start all over. Our blocks deal damage and apply vulnerability. Scrapper is versatile, and packs a punch. Condi classes can be beat. Better tactic is rotate or double up on them ftw.

Keep at it, the frustration subsides as you get more comfortable with engi weirdness.

our most reliable cleanses is elixir with HgH , wich is why i pointed out they are decent

and like i said 1 v 1 is fine but even in a team fight if the enemy team has 2 revs or necros or mesmers

scrapper doesnt stand much of a chance and even then like i pointed out its not engi to fault but bad condition balancing morseso now tht there’s stuff like Viper and mercenary amulets

unfortunetly gyros as mentioned are flawed as they have No stats whatsoever so purge gyro basically dies before it even cleanses a thing asides from the insta cleanse at spawn and bulwark is the only gyro with enough base hp to take a 5 second beating

Like every profession, there are mountains of crap that are bad. With the proper build you can be a legend on Engi, in PvE and PvP.

Other classes can have those issues fixed, though. It’s all a matter of balancing those utilities properly.
Alas, unlike other classes, we especially have to rely upon our utilities to do anything since we’ve got a single weapon slot.
So…how do you do that with the engineer?

Individual kits can’t be good, cause otherwise getting multiple ones would make them op.
Turrets did exactly what they were designed for – defending and controlling an area – and yet they were nerfed to the floor instead of some rework to be made them more active. And they gave us gyros thereafter…that are as useless for the most part. Probably on purpose, due of the stigma of “AI minions” in their beloved PvP mode.
Elixirs are decent only with their grandmaster trait. But even then, using multiple elixirs means using less kits, thus less way to use that might. It isn’t like we can do much with autoattacks, after all. And in PvE even that is meaningless – there are far better sources of might in a party.
Gadgets…the only one that gets used constantly is slick shoes, and only because there happens to be the perfect circumstances for its use (be it people forced to stay inside a relatively small point in pvp, or large bosses that can be hit with all the puddles during a breakbar like gorseval). Oh, sometimes people can use that mine, if they really need to strip a boon. Usually, they just don’t. Still, it isn’t like they could compete with kits, being a single skill.
Due to how the class works, we have to rely too much on utilities. And that means we just can’t afford to use something that won’t work well in a specific situation.
In PvE, that usually means “just go full kits apart from the healing skill (and just because med kit happens to be terrible)”.

Most of those issues depend on that unified balance, anyway. If they properly splitted it, each mode could have skills balanced properly, given that they can take into account the specific differences of each mode. Until then, there isn’t much to hope for.

We can still cheese burm into moa kills. Thats pretty unique i’d say. Yeh condi engi isn’t realy competitive but just a cheap cheesy gimming (like burning in general).

Engineers are in record runs in raids and on top PvP teams in tournaments. And none of the changes made in this balance patch will affect that.

I think we’re fine, even if our build diversity is still incredibly sterile. I was hoping that non-scrapper engineer would be more viable in this patch, but with how crazy strong necro is you need Inventions + Scrapper imho.

Engi isn’t that easy to play, but when played well it is one of the top tier professions. It’s all about kit rotation.

Engineer is not bad. Engineer is quite good. The number of valid engineer builds is REALLY low compared to other classes. Most of this comes from two places.

Many engineer abilities are redundant. Battering ram is in most situations inferior to flamethrower. Gadgets in general are often weaker than something that can be gained through a kit. (notable exception slick shoes). Even in weapon abilities, shield is now mostly inferior to hammer. Pistols v rifle I’ll get to in a sec.

Engineers weapons have little synergy. The Hammer spec for Guardian has two combo fields, an aoe cc effect, a launch, and a mobile blast finisher and a ranged root. Each ability combos either technically or mechanically with at least two other abilities in the weapon set alone. Pistol/shield and pistol/pistol have zero built in synergy. No ability combos with any other. No combo fields, no cute cc combos worth using given the high cooldown costs. They don’t have weapon swap to increase combo potential, and even with kits, the coolest thing they can do is drop a combo field and hope the 20% physical finisher from pistol procs.

That’s honestly just focusing on the bad though. Most of the kits are great, most of the turrets are great. Elixers are slightly better build-rounders than gadgets, and they’ve got a cool top-end with Elixer X’s throw. Gyros feel slightly better than elixers so far, if not quite as good as turrets, and Hammer is a joy to use, Rifle is great. Combos everywhere. Fun times all around. The only frustration is that there’s a lot of abilities that look really cool, and either don’t add up numbers wise, or don’t play right with other engineer abilities.

For me, with new amulets , at least in pvp , engi is really in a good spot . it is quite balanced and it has many viable builds, not only scrapper’s one so it is really ok now. It is much better now than before the 26th of January

The one thing I will admit about engineers is that they are not good with conditions. They used to be but many changes such as the removal of bleed / burn from turrets and from rifle’s basic attack began to steer this class towards direct damage and mitigation. Even the modern condition rotations are very poor including the 42 step program that people claim is worthwhile remembering.

DGraves.3720:

Even the modern condition rotations are very poor including the 42 step program that people claim is worthwhile remembering.

we dont claim that is worth remembering. in fact, most people who know their class tell you metabattle is only a starting point for how to play, because youll almost always want to change a thing or 2 to either make the build playable, easier, or suited to your current situation.

in terms of that 42 step rotation… following the rotation to the letter is impractical and nearly impossible to do in any real situation because you nearly always have to actually react to what the enemy is doing. so dont. instead, keep your burns on cd. keep nades 2 on cd. once you have a feel for keeping those on cd, fill the rest of the time with literally any other skill that has condis on it and any other hard hitter.

insanemaniac.2456:

DGraves.3720:

Even the modern condition rotations are very poor including the 42 step program that people claim is worthwhile remembering.

we dont claim that is worth remembering. in fact, most people who know their class tell you metabattle is only a starting point for how to play, because youll almost always want to change a thing or 2 to either make the build playable, easier, or suited to your current situation.

in terms of that 42 step rotation… following the rotation to the letter is impractical and nearly impossible to do in any real situation because you nearly always have to actually react to what the enemy is doing. so dont. instead, keep your burns on cd. keep nades 2 on cd. once you have a feel for keeping those on cd, fill the rest of the time with literally any other skill that has condis on it and any other hard hitter.

I was being slightly factitious when I said that but this is actually my point; generally speaking rotations longer than 6 steps (2 enemy attack cycles) are not worthwhile.