Guild Wars 2

Patch after patch we get small bug fixes (which we deserved since the first weeks), slight buffs (that never seem to be enough, only to cover…), HUGE nerfs (which seem to go completely unnoticed by the rest of the community except for engineers, do you ever check general community section? People will say no1 got nerfed, it seems they don’t even consider us).

So… are you happy with the way engineers are being changed?

Just a Yes or No would be enough, but then I want to hear you people 4 reasons that explain why you are happy OR 4 things you want to see changed ASAP, things so important that it’s a shame they are left like they are now (maybe with a little suggestion).

I’ll start first: No

I know it might be a walltext but I think these are the ones that desperately need some work done, so please bear with me.

JUST CHECK BOLD-TYPED WORDS IF YOU DON’T WANT TO READ

1-The first fix I want to see, which I consider extremely important for ALL the classes (not just the engineers) is a general fix for all AI controlled units, being pets and summons that are available to all classes, even rune related ones, a possible solution would be this https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Summoned-units-discussion/first#post1304965 and a boost to summons’ #1 skills in order to improve their AoE because they can’t effectively kite or chase thus ending up MISSing 80% of their Attacks (easily solved by turning those into 425 range skills, maybe 60 degrees cones) and remove the “stuck in place” effect on all summons’ skills entirely (or at least #1’s).

2-I just can’t accept the fact that every time we get nerfed (and we always are) we get nothing in return, I mean… they didn’t actually “balance” Kit Refinement, it literally got nerfed to the ground and went in the opposite direction it was meant to be, a multi-kit cookie, atm its effects would be ok IF (suggestion incoming) the buffs lasted at least 8s-10s each and if the cooldown wasn’t global, I mean, if I switch to bomb kit and trigger its kit refinement and then I switch to elixir gun both kit refinement would activate, sure they’d have 20s CD EACH, but at least I am “allowed” to take more than one kit effectively, I mean… elementalists can do as much and even more while switching attunements on a much lower cooldown so why can’t we? (I want to keep the 20s CD because if it was lower Magnetic Bomb would be OP).
One slight boost to Elixir Gun’s refinement radius would be better.
Oh one last thing, Grenade Kit’s refinement should be changed to Throw Mine (with a fix to Throw Mine itself in order to make it explode on touch, just what kind of mine doesn’t explode when the enemy stands on it?), it’d be fair considering the original skill has a much lower and traitable cooldown.

3-I consider Static Discharge one of our (if not THE) best damage trait, it fits in every build (well… it WOULD) and boosts the damage consistently in any power build (don’t get me wrong it’s not such awesome damage that it’d need a nerf, it’s the damage that would take us on par with other classes in those terms), BUT! and this is quite a huge BUT! it has unbelievable targeting issues, you see, if the toolbelt skill you use is programmed to look for a target in order to deal some kind of damage the static will lock the same target and shoot it correctly (see what happens with Detonate Turret, it doesn’t need a target, but it actually triggers static correctly), the problem is that most Engineer toolbelt skills don’t deal damage, they are usually just buffs/self buffs and WILL end up bugging the static into the ground, now if those skills were reprogrammed in order to look for a target to deal some dummy damage, they might work (also Big ol’ Bomb needs a target on cast), but then there’s another huge problem, the time I usually spend casting the skill to activate static discharge I could as well just auto-attacked and dealt the same damage, so to make up for this shameful mistake I’d remove entirely any sort of cast-time from ALL toolbelt skills (except maybe MAJOR ones such as grenade barrage, Big ol’ Bomb and the recently buffed Napalm), this fix would truly be a blessing and… YES it’d take just a simple FIX to boost our damage by a Whole lot.

4-Right now both Pistols and Shield are considered sub-par, this is because there are kits that function exactly like those, but better, granting a lot more utility, and don’t get me wrong with this, those kits have ok utility, but our weapons just don’t stand a chance.
Let’ kitten pistols, their #1 is outdone by EG’s #1, #2 spreads a lot and forces us into 425 range in order to land all the hits, #3 is kinda useful, but the damage+confusion duration/stacks is so low it’s rarely useful even inside a PvP environment, #4 is pretty ok actually (now that its range is bugged though, it’ll deal the max burning duration no matter the range, which seems to be ok not OP or anything just OK), #5 is ok too, but the worst thing about Pistols is that the only skill affected by its mastertrait is its #1, which is a shame considering it costs 30 points!
About shield… it’s use should be BLOCKs+reflects but the reflects don’t seem to work well because of bugs or short duration, and the BLOCK is vastly outdone by Toolkit’s, its are extremely bugged and totally counterintuitive, the #4 has a “stuck on place” side effect which, considering its use, requires kiting and desperately NEEDS that effect removed, as much as it needs an actual block of melees, considering the initial design (which wasn’t intended for kiting imo) my best suggestion would be turning #4 skill into a Sanctuary-like bubble that “stucks you in place” and lasts 3s (4s if traited into Reinforced Shield, as it’d need something like a “Shield skill last 1 more second”), now if this change ever happens the cooldown needs a slight increase to 35s because of the trait.
About its #5 it isn’t as bad as it seems, but that’s because it’s bugged, it was clearly originally designed to “stuck you in place” but somehow after the original animation triggers, if you move you’ll be able to cancel the original animation and activate other skills while keeping the original effect, now… that skill is meant to be a kite/offensive one, so my suggestion is: disable the original animation (raises the shield to “stuck you in place”) and make it last its full duration while stunning attacking enemies (not just melee), that’s something neat considering you can throw the shield to stun, now, considering it doesn’t have a cast-time any longer I think it should last at least 3s (4 when traited), remove the BLOCK effect (to balance #4), reduce the cooldown to 25s and stun for 1s if attacked and 3s if you use the Throw Shield.

I think these changes alone would make the class EXTREMELY more enjoyable.

Now please stick to the 4 reasons/suggestions and keep constructive, I wanted to explain myself with a walltext but now that I think of it we should try to keep smaller posts.

No.
1. I want to be “the master of mechanical mayhem” to quote Anet. Too bad I’m not, no instead they break down every build the community finds and pingeon holl our options into P/P. Is there a VIABLE rifle build in WvW? I don’t think so.

2. Just why? What was the reason kit refinment had to be nerfed? Ok yes, 100nades burst were brutal, but why does thta justify the 20s global CD? Dubbel u T F?

3. We still are kidnda buggy and have serious amounts of useless skills. We still have to deal with broken traits. And the stupid jump shot glitch. Not even talking about the useless gadgets and (still useless) turrets. Wanna play without (tool)kit?→ you’re handicapping yourself.

4. Pistol main attack damage. That’s all I need to say about this.

Yes, I am very happy with the balance done so far myself.

More and more options opened up for us with each new balance patch, I was pretty confident about my engie back in october-september but it’s so much better now all around.
I have mained an engie since the last bwe and I never felt so strong. Nor was I so respectful (I really mean afraid) of other engies I met in combat, even those with wildly different builds than my own.
Going back to october we had one mildly good kit, grenade kit. Now we have one that needs some work -flamethrower- while all the rest is pretty good with toolkit bordering on the op and maybe needing a nerf.

I have 3 other level 80 toons and a 4th on the way. I play them all as much as possible especially when I feel bored, but if I want to “win”? I get the engie. If my buddies want to win? they will ask me to log on the engie.

Now, I admit, my point of view is mainly regarding wvw and the occasional pve, I gave up on playing on tpvp months ago so I won’t comment on that part of the game.

check amadeus builds and vids, he has a talent for experimentation and do tell me if such builds were possible 5 months ago and if we were really that worse off.

it seems to me every single patch, people focus on the one nerf (which wasn’t even a nerf, more of a much needed revamp) and declare it’s the end of the engineering world, while ignoring all the buffs and dismissing them as minor because they don’t use them.

it gets tiring; why bother to even read the forums if all you see are big walls of lamentation text, instead of new builds, new ideas, etc.

I know there’s alot of engies that feel lke I do and avoid posting in these forums for the very same reason and I end up having private conversations about new builds with 5 good engies at the same time without asking for any (but very grateful for them!) because we can’t really have them on the forums before they get buried in negativity and derail into pipe dreams of 5 second bleed explosive shots and sniper kits.

now specificaly regarding the KR change: it’s a 10 point trait; I never thought of using it for anything except maybe grenade barrage; now I look at the medkit, elixir gun and bomb kit and see that it clearly has potential and I could change some stuff around in my build and use those with success. I know some of you relied on kr for condition removal but we do have other (more than one) options.

rant over, sorry about that, I didn’t mean to sound aggressive or offensive, it’s just my opinion.

cheers

I agree 100% with what Maskaganda, that’s pretty much how I feel about the Engineer class, and the community as well! While I do agree that KR is bad atm. It have far more potenial now when the numbers (removed shared CD would the trick) get’s worked on! Does it hurt any of my 10 different (if that can do it) builds I have succes with in WvW? Nope, not at all, I only had a single setup where I used it! I

I’m very happy with the changes. To me it looks like the devs know what they are doing and are moving the Engineer forward. Seems to be too slow for some people, but honestly they have another seven classes to deal with so it’s simply going to be slow.

The good and the positive engies are really starting to stand out on this forum. Thanks for your comment Maskaganda. All I can say is stay away from engies with short names. They harm people lol. I’m lucky to have great engineers in my guild and that I’ve met to chatter with, that’s for sure.

I’m also with Maskaganda. When I saw the change to Toss Elixir U I was almost extatic!

Nothing totally unexpected to be honest, we knew for a fact 100nades was gone that was a given, and we cannot really complain as thief and warrior burst were also reduced. I do feel overall kit refinement did more damage in its current form than it did good, as I feel the toolkit, flamethrower, elixir gun and grenade kit all had better KR procs pre patch, however it looks like med kit and bombkit got some love so we’ll see how it plays out.

My only true gripe is that in wvw and spvp to be the best I can possibly be I am forced to run p/p. In spvp I run it with grenades and in WvW I run it with toolkit, both builds revolve around HGH and multiple elixirs. I feel like there are other builds that can work, but they don’t even come close to these two. HgH rifle build is a good example of this as it has great sustained damage, but relies so much on landing grenades, whereas I can just Magnet pull someone into a prybar, static shot them and blowtorch them and normally thats about all it takes.

I will end on saying that I feel the engineer is one hell of a force to be reckoned with and anyone who is having problems killing with it in pvp is doing something terribly terribly wrong. The patch was overall a move into possibly making other builds viable, I just don’t see them being on the level of the current p/p condition builds we have, but hopefully that will be rectified in future patches.

Cheers,

Zaragoz

I think the changes show how much the devs are concentrating on the engineer profession. I agree that engineers have multiple viable builds for WvW, and of course anything goes in PvE.

However, some things were not handled well last patch. For example, turrets got all kinds of buffs but they still just shoot whatever’s closest to them. In other words, turrets are all right for fighting a thief or warrior or ele, but useless when fighting a necro, ranger, or mesmer. There will probably be very, very few moments when one of those professions will be closer to your turret than their adds. Turrets still shoot gates constantly, even net turret. They still fire even when their LoS is obstructed, which is particularly bad for net turret with the slow rate of fire.

Kit refinement change removed the only real source of any condition removal at all outside of elixirs.

So there is still some build variety left, but most of them look like 10+/10+/0/30/0 with p/p, 2-3 elixirs and 1-2 kits.

No.

While the buffs were nice, they show that they’re making changes without actually playing the class. KR change to 20 second global for all effects is unthinkable for anyone who plays the class, and the new bugs with Deployable Turret is embarrassing because it shows no one actually sat down and made a turret engineer build after the changes.

Perhaps they have some idea or vision in their heads about how engineers currently are, and have some grand plan for us in the future. But until they familiarize themselves about how this class plays, the changes they make run the risk of being completely stupid.

I was speaking about the way they patch the engineer, why breaking a trait/skill that could have stayed or just get nerfed in damage (you just need to change a couple of numbers in the formula) only to fix it one or multiple months later, counting that there are things that need much more attention, turrets especially, but gadgets too, you guys can’t be happy about turrets or kit refinement I mean c’mon, is it really nerf or wait for months to get something done?

Things are proceeding so slowly it’s unbearable… can you remember the first weeks? one patch every day, then it turned to weeks, then it became 2 in a month then the monthly patch along the living story (excuse) and now, slowly increasing the patch time one day per month or something, and every single time we get a patch they manage to break something, they even nerf skills that still need bugs addressed, how could they talk about balance if an engineer doesn’t even know what’s working for sure and what’s not?

After this kit refinement “revamp” (that made it completely useless) https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Kit-Refinement-effects-post-patch/page/2#post1708472 How can you bear the fact that they are going to make us more and more similar to elementalists just less versatile and still pay the tax?

And please just stop following like sheeps or something other famous engis, it’s not like there aren’t good ones around, it’s just that some guys post vids and others don’t, get your own opinion THEN discuss.

Just in case you guys want to bring up the “viable builds” argument… you do realize that every single time a build is viable to us is when they fix bugs right? Because we never got buffed.

Rfreak.6591:

Patch after patch we get small bug fixes (which we deserved since the first weeks), slight buffs (that never seem to be enough, only to cover…), HUGE nerfs (which seem to go completely unnoticed by the rest of the community except for engineers, do you ever check general community section? People will say no1 got nerfed, it seems they don’t even consider us).

So… are you happy with the way engineers are being changed?

Even as a “new” engineer, I’m not that happy with the changes, and I don’t PVP (yet). It seems the devs “balance” for PVP, and aren’t really concerned about the effects in PVE, which is what I play (again, for now). Two cases in point: Flamethrower now might as well shoot mewling kittens, and our weakest weapon is still…..wait for it….our main hand weapon!?!?! How messed up is that? In addition to Engie I play a Ranger, Guardian, Mesmer, and Ele, and if my main hand weapon was as weak as the Engie pistol I would have quit them long ago. Thankfully we have kits, but the FT nerfage just made me remove it from my bar. sigh ATM, my hardest hitting weapon is my wrench!

I wish the devs would bite the bullet and make 2 stat tables, one that is active for PVE, and the other that’s active when you switch to PVP. That way they could “balance” PVP all they want to address all the kitten-kissing QQ’ers (“WHHHAAAAA…..I just got 100 ’Naded by an ENGIE….OMG!!!! NERFNERFNERF NOOOOOOW!!!!”) without borking the game for those of us still wanting to kill marauding herds of minotaurs.

-Thor

Rfreak, first of, just to point ou the two latest buffs: Turrets and Prybar! Okay, so we do get buffs sometimes! yay!
Also, everytime they add new statslines (like givers) or nerf stuff (like Theif burst) we get a buff that can make us more viable, that’s a thing a lot of Engineers forget all the freaking time: You don’t need to buff us direct to make us more viable, nerfs and changes to other classes can do that aswell?

Also, I have no problem with stuff taking it’s time, sure I would perfer everything got fixed instant, but that’s never been the case in any MMORPG I played, so whatever? It’s getting there slow and steady, and since the game came out It have been fun for me every day playing my Engineer! I have several differnt viable builds I use in WvW, and I’m never bored because I still to this day, keep coming up with new builds that I wanna play and get gear for!

The Kit Refinement “Revamp” is one of the best revamps I have seen them come up with! It’s an amazing Idea! Okay, the Shared Cooldown is stupid, and some of the durations needs to be fixed, but you know what? That can all be balanced, it’s simple numbers that need to be changed! Even more, it’s the only freaking change that can be counted as “negative” and yet, you all whine and talk about it as if the end of the world for Engineer’s, but I really don’t see it like this!

Also, all the awesome Turret buffs, I’m just waiting for the tPvP players to post builds and videos of how they get thme to work (Turrets will never be the big thing in WvW, but heck I’m having a blast with my new Net Turret when roaming)!

All in all Rfreak I have a hard time taking all this whine serious, I don’t know your builds, what part of the game you play or how good your at it! But I simply can’t see the same problems your having? And so what if more builds get viable ALSO (see prybar buff) when they fix bugs? It’s just awesome that bugs get fixed and we got more toys working? Also, I have been using several builds since the release of the game, which only gotten stronger and stronger with the bugfixing and changes in the game, and I keep coming up with builds

So yeah, I’m just fine with this new patch, and I’m having a blast (love the nerf to quickness)

@Thorson.9218

You’re wrong, even if they did separate PvP from PvE they’d break WvW even more than it is now, just gotta lol at confusion until it gets nerfed (confusion deals MUCH less damage in pvp for a good reason).

@Amadeus.5687

“That can be balanced”? it’ll take at least one month for the next patch, if they manage to deliver it faster I’ll send’em a cake stuffed with cream with cherries and strawberries on top stuffed with cream too, but if they are seriously gonna wait that much, they should have left it unscratched OR restored to 2 months ago (before they broke it for short) OR simply nerf grenade’s refinement by 50-70% for the time being, heck I’d even accept elixir gun’s refinement nerfed but not this, I mean why?

Oh and one huge thing that bothers me… global CD… why? just balance the effects but don’t kill the only builds that wanted this trait.

I am not.

Turrets main problem is

1) they die in 1-2 hits to a fart
2) their AI for targetting is really stupid, no control to what they hit = no real impact (except flame turret due to cone)

Bad kits are still cra

For rifle build it’s either go Static Discharge or go home. No middle ground. Our dmg without it sucks, and with it it’s pretty decent. Problem is when we have it we need to spam our entire toolbelt to do decent dmg and last i remember it was not supposed to be about mashing buttons.

Rfreak.6591:

@Thorson.9218

You’re wrong, even if they did separate PvP from PvE they’d break WvW even more than it is now, just gotta lol at confusion until it gets nerfed (confusion deals MUCH less damage in pvp for a good reason).

Confusion still does buttloads of dmg. 10 stacks with lots of condi dmg you you almost kill yourself by using skills. ~2000 dmg per skill use is very possible.

I am gonna be biased nad subjective, but I didn’t like the patch. True, Elixir U changes are awesome, but the thing is, every engineer and their mother already ran this or that variation of elixir build. I used my own SD build I had great fun with in pvp, pve and www alike.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQFAUl0picX3y3F17IxoHk+zdG0D9m3+KqQ+B;TIAg0GkA

Jump into the fray, unload burst, get out, bounce around like a madman, annoy the hell outta people. Very dynamic, lively, fun. And I relied on KR Super Elixir proc as 1/3 of my condi removals. I am literally heartbroken now.

add: I felt really stupid choosing Adept traits all along the Tools line. KR in its previous form as a Master trait would be fine. By the Emperor’s furry balls, we have worse Grandmaster traits than KR was.

@Killyox

and

Both without Stastic Discharge, and both with amazing burst damage! Also both work in sPvP hotjoints! So I consider me disagreeing with you

@Killyox.3950

yeah because those stacks of confusion will surely go unnoticed by experienced players (which just love to get close to you) and you’ll surely land static shot, prybar AND concussion bomb, plus it won’t last much, oh and you’d have to switch kits a lot to achieve this.

Rfreak.6591:

@Killyox.3950

yeah because those stacks of confusion will surely go unnoticed by experienced players (which just love to get close to you) and you’ll surely land static shot, prybar AND concussion bomb, plus it won’t last much, oh and you’d have to switch kits a lot to achieve this.

Static and bomb is enough..

As engie you can get Confusion to last 7,5s in sPvP.

What is hard about switching kits a lot?

Does not matter if they notice confusion or not. They either DMG themselves or they don’t do anything for 5-7 seconds. Both are just as good. kitten if you do kitten if you don’t. True to design of confusion.

Killyox.3950:

Static and bomb is enough..

As engie you can get Confusion to last 7,5s in sPvP.

What is hard about switching kits a lot?

Does not matter if they notice confusion or not. They either DMG themselves or they don’t do anything for 5-7 seconds. Both are just as good. kitten if you do kitten if you don’t. True to design of confusion.

That I do agree with you about Good players never take daamge from confusion, but they either waste removal, or is prevented from doing stuff, which is a win in both cases, and most Bunker builds are doomed if they can’t do anything in hat duration

@Killyox.3950

1-if you see bombs you gotta expect concussion
2-if you see the magnet pull you WILL get prybar’d
3-experienced players will stay quite alert on conditions if playing vs an engineer

I’m not saying those aren’t good skills, I’m just saying it’s not realistic at all to rely solely on those.

Switching kits a lot in order to do damage may seem counterintuitive but will make you lose damage if you are trying to achieve that, they are there for their utility, especially now that kit refinement is gone for good.

[quote=1715572;Rfreak.6591:
Switching kits a lot in order to do damage may seem counterintuitive but will make you lose damage if you are trying to achieve that, they are there for their utility, especially now that kit refinement is gone for good.[/quote]

Bahahahahahahahaha… Thanks for that laugh m8! That just made my day, now I won’t have to take you serious anymore!

Basically it works like this: If you like a condition based elixier+pistol build centered around HGH you’ll be fairly happy ( and a “good engineer” by the standards of certain posters ). If you don’t want to be pigeonholed into that kind of spec you won’t like the changes and are probably a “bad engineer”.

All in all No.

(Opinion) More things that were detrimental than were beneficial. I feel the cons out weighed the pro’s.

@Mask

It’s not the first time I have this discution with you and Amadeus, but I think you guys are happy because the nerf doesn’t really affect you guys.

Amadeus do play some power build but he is mainly a PP user if we check his video, and I recon you(mask) are our best PP HGH user right now in WvW. I actually used your build last week. I never saw you play something else, well not in your videos.

I feel like HGH build and conditions build are just getting buffed and buffed. Not only because they get better, but because everything else is getting hit.

I’m not happy about the kit refinement nerf, not because we got weaker, but because the dynamic fighting still of multi kit with kit refinement is no longer possible.

I’m curious to learn what are the new options you are talking about?

Other then toolkit, and some EG abilities, I don’t recall much change.

before christmas, we had SD build, we had HGH, we had bunker, we had 100nade, we had multi kit.

Other then confusion build, what’s new build did we get? Maybe a future turret build.

Just by watching Amadeus movie, you can see his power build are less effective then his condition build. He always kick multiple enemies with conditions, while his power video are mostly 1vs1, and close fight.(my personnal opinion, and his power build video are still wonderful)

Overall, I think engineer are a really good class. A lot better then my 2nd most played class, necro. But I feel like I’m being pigeon holed in conditions.

And I don’t like that.

No bad feeling with Mask and Amadeus.

P.S Mask, you should try the new KR ingame. Its really weak now. All my build that used it, are better with any other traits now. Half of them use medkit, just there its wasting the CD. What about opening a fight with Toolkit? Oh nice I got a 2 sec super speed wasted.

@Rfreak

Dude, I’m disappointed in the class balance team too but you need to take a step back and chill out for a second. We’re not that bad. We’re definitely viable in tPvP.

I wreck faces in hotjoin pretty consistently despite using it mostly as a testbed for new builds. Hell, I just finished a match testing the new Elixir U in a burst rifle build. It isn’t 100nades, but it certainly killed other glass cannons in under 5 seconds.

Confusion condition builds with pistol and tool kit aren’t bad either. Yes, its not a scepter shatter mesmer but we’re not mesmers. But that’s a good thing, in a way. We’re cooler and aren’t purple.

I run p/p with TK and Grenades and Elixir S and HGH. Its similar to the HGH cond everyone’s hyping about, but without Elixir B. In exchange I get a block, a pull and pry bar in exchange for might stacks and fury. It works great for me.

Rfreak.6591:

@Thorson.9218

You’re wrong, even if they did separate PvP from PvE they’d break WvW even more than it is now

So you think it’s better to swing the nerf bat and kitten-up all game play in one swat? They will never balance game play by forcing all play styles (macro styles, those being PvP and PvE) to use the same stats while tailoring those stats to only one style (PvP, which WvW is a subset of).

It’s a moot point since they’ll never do it (too big of a code change), but maybe it’s brain fodder for the next MMO that comes along. ;-)

-Thor

@irakai.6891

I didn’t say we weren’t viable in pvp, but we certainly require much more effort to do something very easy, the thing I don’t like is that they artificially forced us into 1-kit builds, this goes completely against their manifesto of doing what we like, it’s like they are trying to make elementalists the versatile class and we are “something else”.

About the effort thing I mentioned… I’m experienced as hell as a bunker engineer but… have you tried bunkering on a guardian, or support with it? I only main engi and I use other classes just for pvp but trust me when I do… people better run..

@Kardiamond

I do agree that condition damage builds are the strongest for Engineers atm in WvW! And I’t more suited to my playstyle (I love Condition/DoT/All the names this kind a stuff have in other MMORPG games) ^^ I also do a full time Support jop in WvW when running with my group, and I prefer my power nade HGH build over anything else when defending sieges so those build still se a lot of love from me as well, I do other sutff as well

But, and it’s a big but, just because one of our playstyle is more viable then another (condition damage) praticular in the area Maska and me make videos (Roaming small scale) dosen’t mean that the Power builds are bad, because they can be awesome! While I do agree, they need more work now, I still think we are getting there? I know a lot is sad over the loose of 100nade, but I really think the new KR is an amazing idea, they just need to fine tune the numbers and remove the shared cooldown! So I while I am sad to see they changed KR into something worse (I used it in my support build) I don’t go whining, I try see the potential in the new KR, which to me look amazing!

Which new builds we have gotten? Well with the fix of condition duration any Condition nade build is beyond silly in WvW :P I mean 12 sec of chilled and 24 sec of bleeding nom nom!

On the topic of Power builds? It’s to early to say for me, I got a lot of testing I need to go with, but I have a feeling stastic discharge and that rifle Turret is gonna have a hot date with me soon!
And about my power build videos: I do more 1vs1 footage (and they are both as strong 1vs1 as my condition builds 1vs1 actually), but vs several enemies it’s harder to pull off burst build, because I only can land the combo on one good player, and then gotta wait for cooldowns, and they are designed apply pressure on the enemies all the time (where I can kite a lot more on condition damage builds when they get burning and bleeding on them, and still do damage)! So 1vs2 simply a lot harder because of the way those builds are played, combared to the condition damage builds! But when I use them in 1vs1 duels they are often as good as the condtion damage builds (If it ain’t Osicat and his !“/%¤/%(/!” reflect ahahaha) I mean, when I sit on 15-20 Might stacks I’m critting for 2k-2.5k on my Rifle Auto attacks, that’s quitethe pressure

And I think it’s fine you disucss with us haha, I would hate if people didn’t want to discuss with me But I do agree that there is more work needed for power builds then condtion build atm

P.S I’m having a blast of fun with a new Power Rifle build with Turrets for roaming! gonna be epic when I get a video with it going hehe

Not so happy.

Simply because it’s slowly starting to dawn that we have variants of the elixirs HGH builds… and that’s about it.

Turrets buffed? Sure, but they still die in a few hits.

How many viable builds do we have without a single elixir?
Without HGH?
For condition removal or for might, elixirs seem the way to go.
Not even counting all their real purposes.

Kits lost a lot of condition removal with the change to kit refinement.
Kits alos lost their usage when stunned. The new Kit Refinement doesn’t help you there, especially not because the 20 sec shared cooldown will mess you up anyhow.

Turrets got better, but did they really get good enough? Their traits are still all over the place!
Turrets don’t survive, no matter what you trait or do to repair them… If the enemy targets them, they die. Plain and simple.
And again: condition removal is a big issue: 60 seconds on healing turret overcharge still!
Stunned when turrets not out? Forget it… Different story when turrets are active, if they can find the right target. It’s not that they got a lot smarter.

Gadgets?
What about gadgets?
Seems the devs consider gadgets to be absolutely perfect in every way.
I don’t…

Static discharge build is still fun I guess, but you’ll still need better defenses.

So when I go over it all… I see elixir builds, with HGH mostly, and more and more condition based.

I do not see all those new options, sorry.

Yeeaaah… something as necessary as cleansing (like remove this condition or 2+ in this situation) should be innately built into the class or as minor traits at the 15/25 mark in trees…

The lack there of kills allot of build diversity.

I can deal with having to work in outs for CC, but atm there are just too many flaming things a spec needs, to the point it just pigeon-holes left and right.

Superior Sigil of Generosity or Purity and lot’s of dodge/blocks fix most of my conditon problems unless I’m vs a pure conditon damage build, which pretty much only Engineers, Necromancers and a few Mesmers run! I have very little condition removal in my builds and it really ain’t that much of a problem
+ the cleansing from turret or medkit antidote

(heck in WvW you can even eat food for 40% Shorter duration if you want to over kill it, I know you cna’t do that in sPvP)

Amadeus.5687:

@Kardiamond

I do agree that condition damage builds are the strongest for Engineers atm in WvW! And I’t more suited to my playstyle (I love Condition/DoT/All the names this kind a stuff have in other MMORPG games) ^^ I also do a full time Support jop in WvW when running with my group, and I prefer my power nade HGH build over anything else when defending sieges so those build still se a lot of love from me as well, I do other sutff as well

But, and it’s a big but, just because one of our playstyle is more viable then another (condition damage) praticular in the area Maska and me make videos (Roaming small scale) dosen’t mean that the Power builds are bad, because they can be awesome! While I do agree, they need more work now, I still think we are getting there? I know a lot is sad over the loose of 100nade, but I really think the new KR is an amazing idea, they just need to fine tune the numbers and remove the shared cooldown! So I while I am sad to see they changed KR into something worse (I used it in my support build) I don’t go whining, I try see the potential in the new KR, which to me look amazing!

Which new builds we have gotten? Well with the fix of condition duration any Condition nade build is beyond silly in WvW :P I mean 12 sec of chilled and 24 sec of bleeding nom nom!

On the topic of Power builds? It’s to early to say for me, I got a lot of testing I need to go with, but I have a feeling stastic discharge and that rifle Turret is gonna have a hot date with me soon!
And about my power build videos: I do more 1vs1 footage (and they are both as strong 1vs1 as my condition builds 1vs1 actually), but vs several enemies it’s harder to pull off burst build, because I only can land the combo on one good player, and then gotta wait for cooldowns, and they are designed apply pressure on the enemies all the time (where I can kite a lot more on condition damage builds when they get burning and bleeding on them, and still do damage)! So 1vs2 simply a lot harder because of the way those builds are played, combared to the condition damage builds! But when I use them in 1vs1 duels they are often as good as the condtion damage builds (If it ain’t Osicat and his !“/%¤/%(/!” reflect ahahaha) I mean, when I sit on 15-20 Might stacks I’m critting for 2k-2.5k on my Rifle Auto attacks, that’s quitethe pressure

And I think it’s fine you disucss with us haha, I would hate if people didn’t want to discuss with me But I do agree that there is more work needed for power builds then condtion build atm

P.S I’m having a blast of fun with a new Power Rifle build with Turrets for roaming! gonna be epic when I get a video with it going hehe

Wow I’m happy if I can land a 2k crit in a night of roaming

I will prolly have to test it out sometime, but I’m more of a medkit/slick shoe guy then a HGH elixir H guy.

I share the same experience as you in group fight.

With my condition build, I’m doing pretty good in team fights, in 1vs 1 and in 1 vs X.

While on my power build, if not pressurised I’m doing good in team fights (all about positionning), in 1 vs 1 but in 1 vs X it’s really really hard. Your damage come by burst, and you rarely can burst down 2 guy at the same time.

I’M currently trying to stay away from both Grenade and HGH to make a viable build. I will prolly end with a static discharge build.

I’m alright with the changes. I’m sure someone will figure out how to make things work in their favor with the new abilities.

Amadeus.5687:

On the topic of Power builds? It’s to early to say for me, I got a lot of testing I need to go with, but I have a feeling stastic discharge and that rifle Turret is gonna have a hot date with me soon!

Power Rifle with Elixir H, Rifle Turret, Elixir U (yay stunbreaker!) and Elixir B. HGH might stacking, things go splat very quickly. Lots of fun in hotjoin!

Unfortunately, I go splat pretty fast too. I’m considering dropping Elixir B for TK – that way, I can use sigil of battle, so I only lose Fury which isn’t a bad trade at all.

As a class, no. I think Engineers should be diverse and weird and gadgety. I think the changes are pushing us away from fun, weird things like bombs, elixir gun, flamethrower and control builds that have respectable damage.

Personally, yes. I am, and always have been a static discharge grenadier for PvE dungeons and WvW. 30/15/0/0/25; berserks with ruby orbs; MK, GK, Rifle Turret, TK, SD. The “grenade nerf” patch was actually a pretty big buff because 2 or 3 sigils are greater than the nerf to Grenade 1. Neither Kit Refinement nerf meant much to me.

The only change from this patch that affects me much is the Surprise Shot buff. I had already considered it one of the best Engineer skills. Buffing it is just delicious, delicious gravy.

YES, very much.

Yes, generally happy.

Like the turret improvements
Like the Elixir U changes
Like the bug fixes

Hate the KR changes

Thankfully, I’m lvl 37 and so while I was using KR and loving it, the change doesn’t affect me quite as profoundly as others who’ve based their lvl 80 exotic geared build around it.