Guild Wars 2

Lets talk about automated response. I still don’t know why this skill got nerfed. There are still many hard counters untouched. Whatever. Have anyone being using or testing this trait after nerf ? What are your thoughts ? I think this trait should be reworked as It can be our only reliable defense against conditions.

Because the forums repeatedly blew up on it with complaints.

I would like to see the passiveness of this skill completely reworked. I would love to see it function with our tool belt skills. So many other professions have many more traits that function with F key skill. I would love to see it remove a condition when tool belt skills are used. Then again, that might either be a bit too strong, or strong enough that it is desired in so many builds, that it limits build diversity option.

Honestly, any type of active condition removal for this trait would be a great idea.

meanwhile diamond skin…..

mrmadhaze.8706:

meanwhile diamond skin…..

What does this have to do with engineer?

If you wish to discuss another professions bad passive mechanic, please go do so on their forums and don’t use it to troll this one. Thanks.

I was testing the trait and I realized that It is broken. It is not working. I tested with a necromancer from an enemy server at wvw. He just used scepter auto attacks till im dead. I have hoelbrak runes and using lemongrass soup so I have -%60 condition duration already. When automatic response kicks in, it stops a few conditions and then stops working and conditions being applied again. Then I went to veteran scouts and there at %33 hp they couldnt apply any blind or anything to me. I tried at pve with kraits aswell. It also worked perfectly there. So I am really confused now. Maybe any dev could explain how minus condition durations work?

dancingmonkey.4902:

mrmadhaze.8706:

meanwhile diamond skin…..

What does this have to do with engineer?

If you wish to discuss another professions bad passive mechanic, please go do so on their forums and don’t use it to troll this one. Thanks.

It’s not trolling sir, it’s about what it’s wrote in this thread:
bad trait, overall a grandmaster trait, meanwhile some other hardcouters are still there.

What should i say? How wonderful were the old good days? Chill.

Explosia.9164:

I was testing the trait and I realized that It is broken. It is not working. I tested with a necromancer from an enemy server at wvw. He just used scepter auto attacks till im dead. I have hoelbrak runes and using lemongrass soup so I have -%60 condition duration already. When automatic response kicks in, it stops a few conditions and then stops working and conditions being applied again. Then I went to veteran scouts and there at %33 hp they couldnt apply any blind or anything to me. I tried at pve with kraits aswell. It also worked perfectly there. So I am really confused now. Maybe any dev could explain how minus condition durations work?

Well, did the Necro have any +condiduration? Like from food or traits? Because that would explain it.

Edit: If you have -110% duration when the trait kicks in and the necro has +70% duration, his conditions on you will have a duration of 40%.

Hello frands! Vee Wee here, #1 Engi NA and world first rank 80!

Don’t use Automated Response! It is very bad!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

Saturn.6591:

Explosia.9164:

I was testing the trait and I realized that It is broken. It is not working. I tested with a necromancer from an enemy server at wvw. He just used scepter auto attacks till im dead. I have hoelbrak runes and using lemongrass soup so I have -%60 condition duration already. When automatic response kicks in, it stops a few conditions and then stops working and conditions being applied again. Then I went to veteran scouts and there at %33 hp they couldnt apply any blind or anything to me. I tried at pve with kraits aswell. It also worked perfectly there. So I am really confused now. Maybe any dev could explain how minus condition durations work?

Well, did the Necro have any +condiduration? Like from food or traits? Because that would explain it.

Edit: If you have -110% duration when the trait kicks in and the necro has +70% duration, his conditions on you will have a duration of 40%.

It doesn’t work like that. Before the nerf you were able to stop all conditions no matter if he has food or not. It should be something diffrent.

Explosia.9164:

Saturn.6591:

Explosia.9164:

I was testing the trait and I realized that It is broken. It is not working. I tested with a necromancer from an enemy server at wvw. He just used scepter auto attacks till im dead. I have hoelbrak runes and using lemongrass soup so I have -%60 condition duration already. When automatic response kicks in, it stops a few conditions and then stops working and conditions being applied again. Then I went to veteran scouts and there at %33 hp they couldnt apply any blind or anything to me. I tried at pve with kraits aswell. It also worked perfectly there. So I am really confused now. Maybe any dev could explain how minus condition durations work?

Well, did the Necro have any +condiduration? Like from food or traits? Because that would explain it.

Edit: If you have -110% duration when the trait kicks in and the necro has +70% duration, his conditions on you will have a duration of 40%.

It doesn’t work like that. Before the nerf you were able to stop all conditions no matter if he has food or not. It should be something diffrent.

Indeed; BEFORE the nerf you were able to stop them all no matter if he has food or not. But now is AFTER the nerf, so it DOES work like that…

Saturn.6591:

Explosia.9164:

Saturn.6591:

Explosia.9164:

I was testing the trait and I realized that It is broken. It is not working. I tested with a necromancer from an enemy server at wvw. He just used scepter auto attacks till im dead. I have hoelbrak runes and using lemongrass soup so I have -%60 condition duration already. When automatic response kicks in, it stops a few conditions and then stops working and conditions being applied again. Then I went to veteran scouts and there at %33 hp they couldnt apply any blind or anything to me. I tried at pve with kraits aswell. It also worked perfectly there. So I am really confused now. Maybe any dev could explain how minus condition durations work?

Well, did the Necro have any +condiduration? Like from food or traits? Because that would explain it.

Edit: If you have -110% duration when the trait kicks in and the necro has +70% duration, his conditions on you will have a duration of 40%.

It doesn’t work like that. Before the nerf you were able to stop all conditions no matter if he has food or not. It should be something diffrent.

Indeed; BEFORE the nerf you were able to stop them all no matter if he has food or not. But now is AFTER the nerf, so it DOES work like that…

This.!

Automated response works fine. I used before patch and i use now in duel.

I really hate how everyone is ok with that and I don’t understand. Every single patch they add more and more conditions to classes while they don’t even touch or add condi clears. Oh sorry I forgot that they added 1 more condition clear to a 30 sec cd skill that no one use.

It should stack with runes and foods so atleast some of us can use the trait. But it is so ridiculous that it doesn’t work. And no one gives a kitten.

I must agree that a change should be made to this trait to make it more active.

But I’d much rather see them Rework Kit Refinement. Making it less unruly and to have it make sense in the flow if battle.

Wolf.5816:

I must agree that a change should be made to this trait to make it more active.

But I’d much rather see them Rework Kit Refinement. Making it less unruly and to have it make sense in the flow if battle.

You can run KR, just not in any build that uses more than 1 kit and not with Speedy Kits. Otherwise, you’re fine. To compensate requires Power Shoes or Traveller’s Runes. Like This.

Even so, the trade-offs for going zero Alchemy are massive. Invig Speed and Speedy Kits are just so superior that it’s quite difficult to justify. The above build focuses on a lot of CC to draw out the fight so Might can stack up. Throw Mine can be substituted for Rocket Boots as a 1500 escape when comboed with Super Speed as a double gap closer. Having said that, with so much CC it becomes quite trivial to wear down low stability uptime classes like Ele, whilst the low CD boon rip of Mine Field abrogates the Might stacking.

Magnetic Bomb is good to drop in anticipation of bursts as a rupt, or in anticipation of a heal when other CDs are down. For more Might stacking, replace IP with Enhance Performance; but with 3 low CD blasts with almost-harmonised cooldowns you probably won’t need it.

On topic, Automated Response is trash. It was trash before as a complete immunity, it’s trash now with it bugfixed to reduce condi duration additively so it can be countered by >100% condition duration (which you would only find in WvW anyway). The passive proc nature of it takes control away from Engineer, whilst its presence in Alchemy, arguably Engineer’s most universal trait line, has partially justified an Anet moratorium in not raising Engineer’s cleanses per minute beyond 6-8 on most meta builds due to the risk of Engis “doubling down” on Condition mitigation.

The entire mechanic ought to be scrapped and made anew; proccing Condition cleanse/transfer/conversion on Toolbelt skill use; or something unrelated to Conditions entirely with some cleanse moved to Inventions instead. As it stands, it combines both semi-hard counter with passive play and is every bit lazy design as it is bad design in providing little fun to play with; or against, the trait.

That people would call for it to be buffed and keep its mechanic in the first place is mind boggling to me. Condition immunities and other hard counters should have no place in this game; yet Anet insists upon their inclusion in lieu of upping profession cleanses per minute (or in Warrior’s case, add both Condition immunity and up cleanses per minute, but Warrior was truly trash before CIre was merged).

If anything, a redesign of Automated Response is necessary. Adding a Condition cleansed upon successful dodge requires a skill floor and yet it would add enough Condi cleanse to Engi for the Necro matchup to be far more even. Tying it to Toolbelt use I feel should be reserved for Inventions or Tools as Alchemy’s Formula 409 is already extant for Elixirs.

In the end, many of Engi’s passive proc, zero self-control mechanics could be replaced by those requiring active play, if only Arenanet would only take the time to add a skill floor to half the trash traits in the game. But since that isn’t a priority due to balancing taking apparently 6 months per iteration (working hard at hardly working); I doubt something like this would ever see the light of day.

Well, it being kinda passive is there in the name itself – Automated Response.
Anything that would make it more active should also make it change name, basically replacing the trait altogether. The dodge one could be called something like Cleansing Dynamo, for example.

Still, i’m not against traits like the old AR, provided that they aren’t simple bonuses, but also provide different ways to play. And imho, AR wasn’t wrong in that regard – giving a good advantage, but forcing a severe drawback. The trait itself may have been passive, but staying alive while under that treshhold required a good deal of activity by the player.
Anyway, if they wanted to maintain the “automatic theme”, they could make it a sort of forced sustained condition removal – remove a condition every 3 seconds, but block any other form of cleansing. It would make the user resistant versus few conditions, but really weak versus condition bursts.

If only they reworked AR into something USEFUL instead of the BS it’s now I’d be a happier engineer Like, it procs at 50% HP and gives you 5 seconds immunity to all condition damage, ICD 60 secs (worse than berz stance!)

Hello frands! Vee Wee here, #1 Engi NA and world first rank 80!

Please no condition immunity! Vee Wee hopes Arenanet will change Berserker Stance and Diamond Skin! These abilities are just yucky! Guild Warts 2 does not need any more condi immunity! Automated Response should just remove x amount of conditions when the Engineer reaches y amount of health! 3 conditions at 33% health with a 20 second cooldown sounds good for a grandmaster trait!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

What about scrapping completely the “Y amount of health” part? It made sense with the old AR because the whole design of that trait was based about standing under that treshhold, but it is kinda horrible otherwise.
If all it has to do is cleanse some conditions while still retaining the “automated” flavour, it could work like burning fire or shrug it off, and activate when you’ve got the appropriate number of conditions.

so are you proposing like… condi immunity after the 3rd unique condi?
ie
you get tagged by a shrapnel grenade that puts bleed, burn, and vuln on you… then you cant be poisoned by the poison field youre (suddenly) standing in until something runs out.

(3 is prolly too few for the trigger threshold but its a decent example)

what an interesting idea! it has counterplay in that your opponents dont want to spam condis on you (and make more intelligent decisions), you have to decide which condis are ok to keep on yourself…

maybe if the threshold was like 5 itd be still really strong.

Automated response was never the problem, but people on the forums weren’t good enough to understand that. What made the decap engi so OP was the water field on healing turret + the blast finishers.

The funny thing is that instead of actually nerfing decap (it still works quite well), our amazing balance team gives engis an even more OP spec with turrets. True, turrets don’t work well against coordinated teams, but hot join, solo queue, and half of team queue don’t have coordinated teams.

insanemaniac.2456:

so are you proposing like… condi immunity after the 3rd unique condi?
ie
you get tagged by a shrapnel grenade that puts bleed, burn, and vuln on you… then you cant be poisoned by the poison field youre (suddenly) standing in until something runs out.

(3 is prolly too few for the trigger threshold but its a decent example)

what an interesting idea! it has counterplay in that your opponents dont want to spam condis on you (and make more intelligent decisions), you have to decide which condis are ok to keep on yourself…

maybe if the threshold was like 5 itd be still really strong.

Uh, actually, i just meant it working as burning fire and suchs – when you have X conditions, cleanse X conditions, and go on cooldown for Y seconds.
The concept you proposed is quite interesting too, though.

Manuhell.2759:

insanemaniac.2456:

so are you proposing like… condi immunity after the 3rd unique condi?
ie
you get tagged by a shrapnel grenade that puts bleed, burn, and vuln on you… then you cant be poisoned by the poison field youre (suddenly) standing in until something runs out.

(3 is prolly too few for the trigger threshold but its a decent example)

what an interesting idea! it has counterplay in that your opponents dont want to spam condis on you (and make more intelligent decisions), you have to decide which condis are ok to keep on yourself…

maybe if the threshold was like 5 itd be still really strong.

Uh, actually, i just meant it working as burning fire and suchs – when you have X conditions, cleanse X conditions, and go on cooldown for Y seconds.
The concept you proposed is quite interesting too, though.

oh ok