Guild Wars 2

To sum up:
*rifle untouched
*med kit untouched
*turrets untouched
*buffed already strong condi builds
*shield slightly, slightly improved. Nobody still use it anyway
*nerf of gear shield. Only viable block for non-hammer builds.

For me, it’s time to look for another game.

gear shield nerf was totally unneccesary, gyro nerf is not good, literally every useless piece of this class was not touched. but thank god they improved the physical damage on the burning bomb. and don’t forget the damage buff on rocket boots, a skill which was only used for dps anyway – nobody would ever dare to care about the glitching jump end anyway.

just how far can you be detached from your own game?

Absolutely kitten clueless.

Eh another patch full of nothing. At least gyros got nerfed. Screw them and all minions.

R.i.p. gyro’s
R.i.p. engi

Ty for tottaly ruining engineer A-net! Back to WoW!

So condi and power PVE builds get a very small buff with Fire Bomb buff that won’t help us carve out a spot especially considering the already competitive Ranger condi build got some pretty heavy buffs as well. Other than that… gyro gets nerfed, gear shield gets nerfed, and then shield/gadgets get meaningless buffs that still won’t have them being used.

Welp, another round of balance patches without anything worth talking about positively for Engi.

No love for us

kitteng.1920:

i am pretty happy with what we got considering i am a mainly a PvE engi player

Why? There’s no way those minor buffs to the physical damage of a condi kit will make enough of a difference to change the fact that engis are still outclassed by other DPS classes in PvE with no distinct advantage to make them worth taking.

Sure, you can still get by if you’re a good player just like before, but you’ll still perform worse than a thief spamming auto attack. =/

Gear Shield was only decent because they overbuffed the Power Wrench trait in the first place, and even then no one ran it except on core builds that weren’t good anyway. Nerf only serves to kitten core builds harder in PvP, and pushes you even harder towards hammer, as if it wasn’t already by far the superior option. Shield buffs are decent but they don’t address the main problem of not being able to deal sufficient damage without pistol offhand 4, so it still won’t be used by the condi builds that would hugely benefit from its defences. Gyro death nerf was probably necessary, but could also probably have been done in a much better way.

Meanwhile traits stand completely untouched: explosives is still a steaming pile of centaur dung, alchemy/HGH is still 100% mandatory in PvP, and the ‘new’ support/healing traits introduced with core specs update are still trash. Med Kit is still in a worse state than it was before the rework, too.

Dahkeus.8243:

kitteng.1920:

i am pretty happy with what we got considering i am a mainly a PvE engi player

Why? There’s no way those minor buffs to the physical damage of a condi kit will make enough of a difference to change the fact that engis are still outclassed by other DPS classes in PvE with no distinct advantage to make them worth taking.

Sure, you can still get by if you’re a good player just like before, but you’ll still perform worse than a thief spamming auto attack. =/

Naw, we slightly outclass a thief spamming 1. Now toss in some well timed dodges/2’s onto that thief and then we are outclassed.

Jerus.4350:

Dahkeus.8243:

kitteng.1920:

i am pretty happy with what we got considering i am a mainly a PvE engi player

Why? There’s no way those minor buffs to the physical damage of a condi kit will make enough of a difference to change the fact that engis are still outclassed by other DPS classes in PvE with no distinct advantage to make them worth taking.

Sure, you can still get by if you’re a good player just like before, but you’ll still perform worse than a thief spamming auto attack. =/

Naw, we slightly outclass a thief spamming 1. Now toss in some well timed dodges/2’s onto that thief and then we are outclassed.

Well, yes, assuming they dodge every once in a while to keep endurance from capping, of course.

No one has mentioned the 10 second cooldown reduction on utility goggles. That’s the whole lynchpin of what will become the new DPS meta.

Dahkeus.8243:

Jerus.4350:

Dahkeus.8243:

kitteng.1920:

i am pretty happy with what we got considering i am a mainly a PvE engi player

Why? There’s no way those minor buffs to the physical damage of a condi kit will make enough of a difference to change the fact that engis are still outclassed by other DPS classes in PvE with no distinct advantage to make them worth taking.

Sure, you can still get by if you’re a good player just like before, but you’ll still perform worse than a thief spamming auto attack. =/

Naw, we slightly outclass a thief spamming 1. Now toss in some well timed dodges/2’s onto that thief and then we are outclassed.

Well, yes, assuming they dodge every once in a while to keep endurance from capping, of course.

I think you have to get some bounding dodger and well aimed weakening charges to beat us. We actually do better on our Power build than what you see listed on the Golem because Takedown round will proc past 50% on most bosses thanks to adds. And, Condi is pretty kitten solid especially with the likely meta change to have perma Alacrity.

ANET WTF ;.; you did nothing to fix engi

There was a little bit of love but still doesn’t tickle my kitten…

Might have to do some theory crafting again and bring back my bombsaway engi for WvW with all the new Shield/Bomb Kit stuff.

OH and thanks Anet for finally fixing Poison Volley… isn’t this the 3rd or 4th time they’ve said that the bullets actually hit? I really hope they do this time around cuz hell, they weren’t HITTING at all.

Dissapointing balance patch.

Dont they usually do a more serious/big balance patch once a year or is that just my imagination?

Glue Trail: Fixed a bug that caused this skill to affect certain friendly NPCs.

THEY FOCUSED ON THAT INSTEAD OF ACTUAL ISSUES!

ampy.1387:

There was a little bit of love but still doesn’t tickle my kitten…

A bit of love?
They’ve put relevant nerfs (that make no sense outside of pvp) and some useless buffs that won’t absolutely make the class better in what it lacks. Not even the first time it happens, anyway.
If anything, i would say they despise us, at this point.

Jerus.4350:

Dahkeus.8243:

Jerus.4350:

Dahkeus.8243:

kitteng.1920:

i am pretty happy with what we got considering i am a mainly a PvE engi player

Why? There’s no way those minor buffs to the physical damage of a condi kit will make enough of a difference to change the fact that engis are still outclassed by other DPS classes in PvE with no distinct advantage to make them worth taking.

Sure, you can still get by if you’re a good player just like before, but you’ll still perform worse than a thief spamming auto attack. =/

Naw, we slightly outclass a thief spamming 1. Now toss in some well timed dodges/2’s onto that thief and then we are outclassed.

Well, yes, assuming they dodge every once in a while to keep endurance from capping, of course.

I think you have to get some bounding dodger and well aimed weakening charges to beat us. We actually do better on our Power build than what you see listed on the Golem because Takedown round will proc past 50% on most bosses thanks to adds. And, Condi is pretty kitten solid especially with the likely meta change to have perma Alacrity.

Any buff to alacrity will help eles just as much and they still outperform engis.

Dahkeus.8243:

Jerus.4350:

Dahkeus.8243:

Jerus.4350:

Dahkeus.8243:

kitteng.1920:

i am pretty happy with what we got considering i am a mainly a PvE engi player

Why? There’s no way those minor buffs to the physical damage of a condi kit will make enough of a difference to change the fact that engis are still outclassed by other DPS classes in PvE with no distinct advantage to make them worth taking.

Sure, you can still get by if you’re a good player just like before, but you’ll still perform worse than a thief spamming auto attack. =/

Naw, we slightly outclass a thief spamming 1. Now toss in some well timed dodges/2’s onto that thief and then we are outclassed.

Well, yes, assuming they dodge every once in a while to keep endurance from capping, of course.

I think you have to get some bounding dodger and well aimed weakening charges to beat us. We actually do better on our Power build than what you see listed on the Golem because Takedown round will proc past 50% on most bosses thanks to adds. And, Condi is pretty kitten solid especially with the likely meta change to have perma Alacrity.

Any buff to alacrity will help eles just as much and they still outperform engis.

Absolutely but we were talking thief! But, yes that’s exactly why we won’t be grabbing any spots. We’ll still be right there with Rangers on Condi, and Necro still outperforming both if they’re played right with a second necro to Epi bounce, or just in wing2 tossing condi’s back at bosses. Power we’ll still be third/4th seat with Ele/Thief/Guard likely beating us out (about the same as Guard as I understand it but without the utility).

Poor gear shield. Anyone else get a feeling arenanet live in a separate timeline? Cos i didnt see all the toolkit engis in the esports scene where everyone was running elixir gun. And its one of the core defenses the vanilla engineer got.

Also stop buffin things. Cause you cant do meaningful changes and it only looks silly.

Also what nonsense is “purity of purpose?”.

Was it because it was too much of a problem to fix how experts examination works?

Here is your “purity of purpose” done right:

Take for example rocket boots.

1. Ask what is this skills purpose? (Hint: It got something to do with mobility and escapes, not damage).
2. Is this skill providing enough of that resource. Enough to actually be taken.
3. If the answer was no, increase the effectiveness of its PRIMARY purpose, which is to gain mobility.

This is the same thing that makes us spit out our coffee when we see you buff the direct damage on firebomb by 10%. Whats next, 1% direct damage increase on box of nails?

I swear every patch makes it harder to log in. Its not that the game is unplayable but it sure feels as getting on board Titanic II with every nonsensic update like this.

“We’ve been looking to improve the engineer and to support the areas it’s been lacking in”
The area we are lacking is supporting allies (med kit). Why wasn’t that improved?

Gear Shield

There was NOTHING wrong with it. It’s just a giant kitten YOU to the players that actually still try and run toolkit + vanilla rather than the standard hammer scrapper that they’re shoving down everyone’s throats.

I would also be fine with it if they nerfed blocks and defense across the board – especially the ones that let players block while dealing damage, or particularly long blocks – but they kittening didn’t.

@ Jorus: It doesn’t really matter how thief compares to engi. You’re missing the entire original point to nit pick.

I’m still not sold on condi.
– The direct DPS buffs are very minor for condi.
– Having condi over power still doesn’t really benefit outside of VG.
– Groups will still take necros over engis for certain fights because of epi.
– Groups with epi will likely get their burning from condi PS wars.

Power Engi may be a bit more decent and will at least stay viable, but before any engi build can return to meta, you have to have a good answer to the question:

Why would you ever bring an engi instead of another ele?

While i dont like the way anet took us, im still happy with this patch, we might have a chance as a sideoption in the condi role

guildabd.6529:

“We’ve been looking to improve the engineer and to support the areas it’s been lacking in”
The area we are lacking is supporting allies (med kit). Why wasn’t that improved?

True, and it was asked so badly to buff this

Welp if this is the only balance patch we’re gonna see for a year engineer’s are kittened. I hope the devs who worked on this are kittening embarrassed. How can you possibly be so ignorant of the screaming obvious issues…

The prevously irrelevant scrapper minor trait that increase daze durrations continues to lose relevance. What happened to scrapper being a control spec? What happend to the Daze theme? Now the only daze we have on usefull weapon/utility skills the leap finnisher from hammer 3# into hammer 5#.

I’m quite salty about this patch. Calling it “purity of purpose” and then increasing the dmg of rocket boots and the physical dmg of fire bomb… wat?

Shield will continue to be irrelevant as long as pistol mainhand lacks any form of sustain damage or burst damage. It’s a step in the right direction but nobody in their right mind will take shield over pistol offhand.

Dahkeus.8243:

Why would you ever bring an engi instead of another ele?

On paper, there’s no reason. Realistically, because they’re perfectly viable and the amount of groups actually running meta compositions correctly is quite minimal so someone who plays Engi well is better than someone who slapped together an Ele with scholar runes that will usually be ineffective and running the rotation terribly while they die due to bad positioning with their low health pool. >.<

Again, no real reason, just on the flip side the only reason not to run Engi is that good players have shown that on a training dummy it’s 3rd ranked DPS at best.

If you think 3s is too long for a block, you clearly don’t pvp or wvw much.

Procession of Blades – >3s
Rapid Fire – 2.5s
Hundred Blades – 3.5s
Unrelenting Assault – >3s

Fire Arrow Cart – >3s

Not to mention it makes blocking shorter attacks much harder because you don’t have a block buffer. You now need to time the block exactly at the right time. You almost need to be telepathic to time your gear shield correctly.

If i inreased the direct damage by 10% of:

Fumigate.
Throw napalm.
Shockwave.
Blast gyro tag.
Static shot.
Napalm.

And then increased the recharge of healing turret to 40 seconds, the above buffs does not necessarily outweigh the single nerf. Especially if we are talking different gamemodes. All these kitten kitten damage increases is just to throw pve engineers a bone.

The one buff that mattered was the shield one. And even that buff was mild compared to its situation.

*EDIT*That translates into kitten?

Hmm…
IMO, they want to force people into trying scrapper with shield, less gyros&kits and more gadgets. That’s the only reason I could imagine to explain why they nerfed gear-shield and removed gyro’s dazes, while keeping impact savant the same.

I don’t believe this answer the basic engie/scrapper problem at all, and I do believe the gyros losing the daze IS a huge thing: those dazes were the only thing that make me even consider to take shredder, purge or bulwark. Also, without the cc, heal gyro loses even more against HTurret. I never liked gyros in the first place: now they are exactly in the same quarantine area where I store the turrets.

Scrapper elixir s elixir b inc

Why would you expect a bunch of buffs to engineer its one of the strongest classes in the game especially in spvp.

Hammer / Scrapper is meta. Base Engi – especially with Rifle or Shield isn’t. They didn’t touch rifle, and the buffs to shield aren’t enough to make it useful. Plus they nerfed Gear Shield – primarily used by vanilla engis… kitten that.

Rigante.2470:

Why would you expect a bunch of buffs to engineer its one of the strongest classes in the game especially in spvp.

Engineer has only 1 maybe 2 builds viable for all game modes (condi pp and power hammer). Two out of four skill types (five if you count gyros) are completely useless, we are stuck with two build since HoT came out.
We.
Need.
More.
Diversity.

This whole ‘balance’ patch looks like made up for the last minute before actual patch, like they noticed a week ago there wasn’t decent balance patch for a long time.

“We’ve been looking to improve the engineer and to support the areas it’s been lacking in”

and right after it:

“we have removed the daze functionality”
Was that sarcastic joke of some kind?

werdernator.6105:

just how far can you be detached from your own game?

^this , EXACTLY this.

These so called “patchnotes” are a Halloween joke and nothing else.

Ardid.7203:

IMO, they want to force people into trying scrapper with shield, less gyros&kits and more gadgets.

Which would be literally impossible to do damage with except maybe perplexity condi build wvw/pvp or something. Because we all need more perplextiy builds in our lives.

Two “balance” patches that have changed ZERO about Engineer builds. Nothing but nerfs to the meta and “buffs” to skills that are unused and will continue to go unused because there is no build for them.

Turrets and Gadgets are still utter kitten. Rifle is still useless due to all the projectile hate and its old design (self-knockdown, lol). Shield is useless because mainhand pistol deals almost zero damage.

Lol a buff to the physical damage of fire bomb? Purity of purpose I guess. A buff to rocket boots launch physical damage… must be that purity of purpose what with it having a condi toolbelt skill.

It is extremely clear that they dont play engineer in a single game mode these days. WvW and PvE (raids/fracs) already dont use engineers at all because we lack anything special for the group and have to work twice as hard for the same damage as other classes. Now that they nerfed our ability to rezbot in PvP we are officially non-meta in all game modes.

Good job ANet, this is what balance looks like to you?

Pathetic.

coro.3176:

Hammer / Scrapper is meta. Base Engi – especially with Rifle or Shield isn’t. They didn’t touch rifle, and the buffs to shield aren’t enough to make it useful. Plus they nerfed Gear Shield – primarily used by vanilla engis… kitten that.

Actually, the base engi is the slightly better then scrapperr in meta terms.

Alec B.8905:

Glue Trail: Fixed a bug that caused this skill to affect certain friendly NPCs.

THEY FOCUSED ON THAT INSTEAD OF ACTUAL ISSUES!

pretty much this^

clearly no one at anet gives a kitten about this profession nor takes it seriously
also this opening quote:

We’ve been looking to improve the engineer and to support the areas it’s been lacking in so that the profession can perform more effectively in a DPS role

What in the blazing hell in any of the nerfs benefits engineer as a DPS role?

Everyone else got good CD reductions on actual abilities they use or flat out buffs

that’s 3 patches in a row where engi gets nerfed for no reason

lol

people complaining about nerfs being out of nowhere

meanwhile, engi was part of the cc spam problem and could thread about 5 different skills for total block/evasion/reflect time of nearly 20 secs.

now take daze off of dh traps too, anet. and druid has too much daze too. and prolly berserkers and chronos.

insanemaniac.2456:

lol

people complaining about nerfs being out of nowhere

meanwhile, engi was part of the cc spam problem and could thread about 5 different skills for total block/evasion/reflect time of nearly 20 secs.

now take daze off of dh traps too, anet. and druid has too much daze too. and prolly berserkers and chronos.

the complains was because engi got nothing but nerfs whereas others got teeny nerfs and decent buffs , ontop of the fact that our supposed change was supposed to be around making engineer better as overall support and dps

kitten ur elite spec
AND kitten ur core spec!
- Anet

Rezzet.3614:

insanemaniac.2456:

lol

people complaining about nerfs being out of nowhere

meanwhile, engi was part of the cc spam problem and could thread about 5 different skills for total block/evasion/reflect time of nearly 20 secs.

now take daze off of dh traps too, anet. and druid has too much daze too. and prolly berserkers and chronos.

the complains was because engi got nothing but nerfs whereas others got teeny nerfs and decent buffs , ontop of the fact that our supposed change was supposed to be around making engineer better as overall support and dps

did you look at mesmer, rev, necro and druid.

Samug.6512:

To sum up:
*rifle untouched
*med kit untouched
*turrets untouched
*buffed already strong condi builds
*shield slightly, slightly improved. Nobody still use it anyway
*nerf of gear shield. Only viable block for non-hammer builds.

For me, it’s time to look for another game.

And this is after saying in the actual notes: "We’ve been looking to improve the engineer and to support the areas it’s been lacking in so that the profession can perform more effectively in a DPS role. "

I mean WTF! There’s virtually no dps improvement at all.

Imo the gear shield nerf hits (core) rifle builds the hardest because they rely the most on it and have the least amount of other defensive options. (hammer builds have block and evade on main weapon and condition engineers can choose to slot shield (+ tanky gear)). That is why i think that rifle is deserving of an evade frame on either #4 or #5 to keep its survivability in line with the other builds.

Preferably on 5 – Jump Shot, which is used to get in and out of combat, so is particularly vulnerable to damage and cc during travel.

coro.3176:

Preferably on 5 – Jump Shot, which is used to get in and out of combat, so is particularly vulnerable to damage and cc during travel.

Jump Shot would be just perfect for a small evade. It would be work around a mid-air immobilize bug that locks you in mid air and you can’t use any skill, since the game thinks you are falling (except elixir B, it’s only skill usable in mid-air for some reason).