Engineer
Most of the time, engineers were taking turret skills and never deploying the turret because the Tool Belt skill was too important to be overridden by the detonate turret skill. In this update we are moving the detonate skill to be the flip-over for the turret itself so that the Tool Belt skill is always available even if you deploy the turret. Because many of the overcharge skills weren’t very tactical and much easier to just press on cooldown, we’ve changed these skills to automatically activate the moment the turret is placed instead. Since this means a turret can only be overcharged once per deployment, we’ve reduced the recharge of a few turrets to compensate.
Bunker Down: The cooldown of this trait has been increased from 2 seconds to 3 seconds in PvP only.
Protection Injection: The cooldown of this trait has been increased from 5 seconds to 10 seconds.
Med Pack Drop: This skill will now remove all (14) conditions for up to 5 allies upon impact.
Bulwark Gyro: The cooldown of this skill has been increased from 20 seconds to 25 seconds in PvP only.
Purge Gyro: The cooldown of this skill has been increased from 20 seconds to 25 seconds in PvP only.
Turrets: Turrets no longer need to be overcharged. Summoning a turret will automatically overcharge it once.
Detonate Turret: This skill has been moved off of the Tool Belt skill. It is now the flip skill for the associated turret.
Thumper Turret: Reduced recharge to 40 seconds. Overcharge attack now launches foes straight up instead of out of the turret’s attack range.
Healing Turret: Fixed a bug that caused this turret to show a water combo field when none was present.
Flame Turret: Reduced recharge to 20 seconds.
Rocket Turret: Reduced recharge to 40 seconds.
Detection Pulse (Scrapper): Fixed a bug that caused the effect from this skill to incorrectly reflect its radius.
Protection Injection nerfed a little bit, Med Pack Drop’s potentially big buff, some recharge times increased in PvP.
Change to turrets – it essentially means turrets are overcharge only once, upon deployment. What about purity of purpose? It doesn’t make sense to keep turrets up. Useless-ness of turrets intensifies!
GG Protection Injection.
They wanted to nerf Elite spec damage reduction spam ( I assume) by nerfing a core trait that has been untouched/ok for years…. Nerfed core spec to balance elite spec like they always do.
Truly, this is a buff to power engi, but these ghances are irrelevant on the other gamemodes, were turrets cant survive a vs for a decent amount of time
PvP Rifle Engi player no matter how dark the meta is.
The turret change would make more sense if Experimental Turrets trait have been reworked to dump a lot of boons all around in one burst. Now there’s no point to keep turrets up…
to any one worried about this change affecting heal turrets use, I tried it a few times and all this patch did was make it easier to do our water blast combo.
Not very happy that HT can’t have 15 sec CD anymore.
At work so will need to try patch out later…
Just press #6 w8 1 second and then pick it up (it still is 15s cooldown that way). It also feels like you have more time to combo blast finishers with the overcharge. I can now “Detonate Flame Blast” + “Acid Bomb” + “Detonate Healing Turret” I dont think that was possible before.
Again I dont understand this nerfs, engi is at the egde of meta, and already rare to see compared to other classes. And now are important meta traits nerfed again which have never been a problem? Protection injection was untouched since years, nobody complained about it, and now its nerfed? Just tell me why?
All we got this patch is some QOL to turrets, nerfs to pvp meta traits, and med kit buff and I still boubt somebody will use med kit now… NO rifle buffs and NO gadget buffs, no real buffs at all
I don’t know. I’m glad they’re trying to fix things, but I’m a bit sad that it removes some active gameplay from turrets.
Eg. You can no longer deploy healing turret and blast another field without overcharging it. That was a very very important use of the turret and now you can’t cast it without ruining someone else’s fire field.
What they failed to grasp was that the damage on most of them was already so low that you only kept them around for the overcharge anyhow*. What they need to do is to have them recharge while deployed if they are going to “fix” them this way. Now they truly feel like clunky gadgets or bombs with long recharges.
*When i say this i imply that someone somewhere might actually be using the kitten things.
Was messing around with a bunch of Engi’s in LA and realized that if say for example you overload your HT but don’t detonate it, you can still then blast Regenerating Mist. Which means you can drop HT, blast it with say Acid Bomb for example, leave the turret active for a second, then activate Regenerating Mist and blast that field with Detonate Turret.
couldn’t you always do that? 2 fields, 2 blast finishers.. same as before?
The difference is that now you can’t use the heal turret blast finisher for another existing field because it’ll drop its water field on top when you deploy it.
couldn’t you always do that? 2 fields, 2 blast finishers.. same as before?
The difference is that now you can’t use the heal turret blast finisher for another existing field because it’ll drop its water field on top when you deploy it.
No, you could blast Regenerating Mist with other methods but not with Healing Turret’s Deteonate Turret itself. Because having the turret active would replace Regenerating Mist with the Detonate Turret skill.
This means that you can: Blast Regenerating Mist with Healing Turret if for some reason you decide not to Detonate the turret right after placing it. And can also blast Regenerating Mist a second time, if you’re quick, with another blast such as Acid Bomb for example.
What I’m doing is placing the turret, it then automatically creates it’s waterfield. I blast it with Flamethrower #2. I wait a second until the waterfield dissipates, then I activate Regenerating Mist and blast that with Detonate Turret.
Sorry for the awful quality. I know there’s a better site for video -> gif but I don’t know what that site is, lol.
Since “Detonate Healing turret” is instant you can easely pull off 2 blast finishers with the short “Regenerating mist” water field. Imma practice “Healing Turret” -> “Flame Blast” -> “Jump Shot” -> “About Face” -> “Regenerating Mist” -> “Acid Bomb” -> “Detonate Healing Turret” as my escape healing combo now.
Okay, but what about the Cleansing Burst water field? Why does it matter if you’re blasting on Regenerating Mist vs blasting on Cleansing burst? Either way, you’re deploying the turret and blasting it. Also, does healing turret not do Cleansing Burst on deploy any more? If not, that’d be a massive nerf.
All it brought to us was a 300 dps increase to the power Engi. Turrets are still too weak to replace any kits (Flame Turret vs Flamethrower for example) and what they just did is remove the last bit of strategy turrets had.
For instance, in Raids you could’ve used the Healing Turret to safely cleanse the Fear at Sloth by placing the turret, wait 1 sec and then proc the delayed overcharge with the condi cleanse.
I think overall it’s a step into the right direction, but they should’ve added an auto overcharge every X seconds, so turrets really are worth kept up, or remove them entierly. More importantly, they should inherit player stats at least in PvE, or even better: give us a tab like the Ranger pets where we can gear them like we want to.
Ziggs Ironeye – Engineer | Madame Le Blanc – Mesmer | Mentor (PvE) | EU
“Mentoring engineers / mesmers and showing you what you can do with your fantastic class!
Just pm me for my advice! Always eager to help!”
Way to screw over engineers, so much for any strategy I’ve developed for mine. I use engineer as my primary, and this ruins me. Without a manual activation for turrets (especially healing turret) secondary skills, I have basically been ruined because I waste my only turret secondary when placing it, even though I just want to use its basic function until I need the secondary skill like say, the secondary for the rocket launcher to use as a shield breaker, then use ti again for it recharges without detonating it because I still need it to engage, but now, I cant do that. Healing turrets themselves are worthless for teamplay because now the secondary activate upon placment, rather than when you need it most.
i tried a rabid build, in 2 matches, with eg, fire turret, elixir S and mortar … with invention, alchemy and firearms and it was quite fun …. not meta but quite strong in 1vs 1 ….
The turret change feelsgoodman, just have to be more careful to not detonate a turret before the field animation is up. Still better than mercilessly mashing the button until it detonates.
This makes it feel way worse imo, instead of just being able to overcharge it instantly you have to sit and wait.
I don’t know. I’m glad they’re trying to fix things, but I’m a bit sad that it removes some active gameplay from turrets.
Eg. You can no longer deploy healing turret and blast another field without overcharging it. That was a very very important use of the turret and now you can’t cast it without ruining someone else’s fire field.
Actually, if you mash the skill (or are quick enough) you can just detonate the turret and it won’t have time to overcharge, thus no water field. Contrary to popular belief it does not instantly overcharge when you drop it, it just attempts to do it automatically and has a short cast time.
Again I dont understand this nerfs, engi is at the egde of meta, and already rare to see compared to other classes. And now are important meta traits nerfed again which have never been a problem? Protection injection was untouched since years, nobody complained about it, and now its nerfed? Just tell me why?
All we got this patch is some QOL to turrets, nerfs to pvp meta traits, and med kit buff and I still boubt somebody will use med kit now… NO rifle buffs and NO gadget buffs, no real buffs at all
Except it’s probably going to be one of the best PvP classes.
The turret change would make more sense if Experimental Turrets trait have been reworked to dump a lot of boons all around in one burst. Now there’s no point to keep turrets up…
Bravo ANet! “Fix” a single, long-standing glaring issue with turrets (that only affects raiders, mind you), nerf the PvP meta (because we’re doing so well), add a meaningless buff to a skill nobody realistically uses, and we’ll call it a day.
What about some real balance adjustments? Rifle and shield have been languishing in obscurity. Our traits are a mess. Most of our utility skills are underwhelming. This is what has taken the balance team so long to come up with? Does anybody on their team play engineer?
Bravo ANet! Fix a single glaring issue with turrets and call it a day. Nerf the meta, and we’re golden.
What about some real balance adjustments? Rifle has been languishing in obscurity. Our traits are a mess. Most of our gadgets are a joke. This is what has taken the balance team so long?
What came to my mind today is, they have made some time ago a looong, long list of possible balance changes. Now all devs are working on the next expansion, so there’s no HR for real balance team – they just pick some stuff from the list.
3 months later from now, with the next balance patch, we’ll see adjustments to Turrets toolbelt skills, to make them viable with the change they introduced today.
Seriously though, this game needs more frequent balance patches, made by people who actually play the game, at least one person per one profession
Bravo ANet! Fix a single glaring issue with turrets and call it a day. Nerf the meta, and we’re golden.
What about some real balance adjustments? Rifle has been languishing in obscurity. Our traits are a mess. Most of our gadgets are a joke. This is what has taken the balance team so long?
What came to my mind today is, they have made some time ago a looong, long list of possible balance changes. Now all devs are working on the next expansion, so there’s no HR for real balance team – they just pick some stuff from the list.
3 months later from now, with the next balance patch, we’ll see adjustments to Turrets toolbelt skills, to make them viable with the change they introduced today.
Seriously though, this game needs more frequent balance patches, made by people who actually play the game, at least one person per one profession
What I’m seeing (and this is obviously my opinion) is that they’re balancing for raids and PvP only. The changes to engineer clearly reflect this — raids were affected by the turret issue (despite really not being a big issue), and the nerfs to the pvp meta that made us tankier (and the scrapper worthwhile). These changes don’t realistically affect WvW or the rest of PvE at all.
Meanwhile, they ignore that the whole class is languishing badly with very little as far as different ways to play, in all areas of the game.
I guess this was supposed to be a buff to toolbelt skills, but I’m not sure how since no one is going to keep a turret up that only overcharges on placement. It is akin to detonating via toolbelt anyway.
Either way, the change requires a whole lot of annoying muscle memory retraining.
Chaba Tangnu
Founding member of [NERF] Fort Engineer and driver for [TLC] The Legion of Charrs
RIP [SIC] Strident Iconoclast
Oh, also, I was reading through the introduction: “Skills that tether players together now apply Revealed to provide a stronger window of opportunity to players who can successfully land them.”
So, technically, Magnet should get it too? In theory?
This makes no sense. Now there is no point to keeping turrets up, which means that the change itself makes it irrelevant that we now have access to the toolbelt skill all the time since we will be picking up the turrets as soon as we place it.
So much stupidity into one balance patch.
What really trigger’s me is this bit:
Most of the time, engineers were taking turret skills andnever deploying the turret because the Tool Belt skill was too important to be overridden by the detonate turret skill.
NO FREAKING WAY. Most of the time we weren’t even taking the turrets at all because they suck. We’re using only all possible kits and only 1 or two skills of each kit because anything else we have is absolute garbage. Why not make the turret strong so we can DECIDE at each moment if it would be better do keep the turret or not?
Remember what engineers were supposed to be about? Picking the right tool for the job. Now we just have no tools and no choice on what to use. Make things powerful conditionally and let us figure out what to use and when.
We’re so full of useless stuff it’s not even funny. Every class has trash skills but we have nothing but trash skills. Even our good skills have trash skills (kits).
Missed opportunity here to rework turrets to be useful and powerful. Just give them more scaling and a punishing cooldown so we want to protect them.
prot injection is one of those op af traits that gives a bunch of invisible power so it doesnt get complained about even though its hard countered power builds for years. alchemy has been core to engi in pvp and wvw for the entirety of gw2, and prot injection is the only trait thats never been nerfed. any build that relies on cc to get burst off cant kill an engi. seriously, back when warriors would skull crack into hundred blades or eviscerate like 3 years ago, an engi could take it and stall out the fight while most other classes would wither. nowadays everyone has cc everywhere and there isnt really a pvp/wvw build that doesnt take prot injection. at all. if you want to live at least.
sad to see it nerfed, but that was a long time coming and imo it actually shows the dev/team that did it knows something about something instead of the more usual out-of-left-field weird changes.
turrets on the other hand… lol well ok maybe not. but really detonation needed to get off the toolbelt. healing turret is fine, but it seems to be a nerf to the others… maybe next some will get “on next attack” buffs as opposed to short duration overcharges. the major complaint seems to be that the overcharge is wasted, but that can easily be avoided by giving the turret a long duration buff similar to sigil of doom/intelligence or mantras or guardian f1 active. and allow (some of) those overcharge buffs to accrue like 2-5 charges so theres a benefit to leaving turret nests around.
JQ: Rikkity
head here to discuss wvw without fear of infractions
Most of the time, engineers were taking turret skills andnever deploying the turret because the Tool Belt skill was too important to be overridden by the detonate turret skill.
NO FREAKING WAY. Most of the time we weren’t even taking the turrets at all because they suck. We’re using only all possible kits and only 1 or two skills of each kit because anything else we have is absolute garbage. Why not make the turret strong so we can DECIDE at each moment if it would be better do keep the turret or not?
pretty obviously targeted at rifle turret both in raids where it can be taken solely for surprise shot and static discharge pvp/wvw burst builds that use surprise shot + detonate turret.
JQ: Rikkity
head here to discuss wvw without fear of infractions
The whole point of the change is that it gives choice. Why are people always so angry when they get choices?
What choice exactly? Turrets themselfs are still useless, Rifle turret will still be taken only for its toolbelt skill, Healing turret will still be overcharged right after placement, only to be destroyed – this time, tho, we don’t have to overcharge manually. Only thing that
really changed is even less reason to keep turrets alive.
The choice is you can take advantage of an overloaded turret immediately or keep them up … you didn’t have that choice before. If you think the turrets are useless, then you have decided to use your turrets that way …. a CHOICE you make. Maybe you shouldn’t assume everyone thinks as you do to pretend this isn’t better than the way it was.
I mean, are you going to tell me the old way was better or that this new way is not? I think that’s clearly not the case. It might not be the improvement you were looking for, but it is an improvement.
Wouldn’t it have been better if they also allowed turrets to automatically overcharge once deployed and then every X amount of seconds thereafter (depending on the turret)?
It was kind of neat to actually use the overcharges if you kept them active before. Now, it’s a one and done deal with the trade off of using toolbelt skills. Why not both?
So even LESS reason to actually use your turrets as actual turrets. Everything about their design now says “drop them, leave them active for a couple seconds, blow them up”. Shield trait? Only on drop. Overcharge? Only on drop. Blast finisher and damage on detonation. Lower cooldowns to promote blowing them up.
I get that losing toolbelt skills has always been a problem with turrets, and I get that apparently a lot of people bemoaned a “passive” playstyle of just setting turrets. But is the only solution really just to continue taking them further and further away from being… ya know, TURRETS?
Also, I call bull on overcharges just being “spam on cooldown”. That only applied to 1 out of 5 turrets, that being the Rifle Turret. Everything else was much better used strategically for their respective soft / hard CC applications. And even if you argue that point, it still meant keeping an eye on overcharge cooldowns and timing it properly with the turret’s actual attack .
Turrets are even MORE passive now if you actually want to use them as turrets. Its literally just put them down and that’s it. No more overcharges for any sort of active play. I mean, if you actually want to use them as turrets and completely kitten yourself because you obviously aren’t meant to use them that way.
I used to manually pulse regeneration from a placed HT during longish group fights, detonating the field with another blast (not destroyng the turret) for AOE healing. Now I can’t do that. NOW I have no reason to have the turret up.
But they weren’t solving that. They were solving the fact that people only used the toolbelt skill, never deploying the turret at all. Aka, this change is for raiders that use rifle turret.
“Only problem with the Engineer is
that it makes every other class in the game boring to play.”
Hawks
