Guild Wars 2

Recently there has been mention of revamping some of our less used utilities. As per the topic, how would you guys feel about bringing back the mine kit? I’ve only very, very rarely seen this utility in use, and even then only as a variant of the old kit refinement double grenade barrage build.

As some of the old timers on this forum probably remember this was a kit whose 1-5 skills were all deploy mine, it eventually saw changes where the mines would automatically detonate where an enemy steps on them rather than needing to be manually detonated. There was a further trait that allowed each mine to remove a boon and have a short distance knock back. Reintroducing this kit would allow for boon counter play on the part of engineers, without needing to rely on elixirs or sigil of nullification.

The past incarnation of the mine kit would be clearly imbalanced in terms of the current game, namely the five blast finishers on the mine kit, this could potentially be removed or given a 20% chance as per projectile skills. The knock back and boon removal could also be taken from the kit and given as separate grandmaster traits allowing two different styles of play with the same kit. For example the grandmaster trait “Claymore” could add a knock-back and a modest 5% damage boost to the mine kit while keeping the 900 throw range. Another grandmaster trait “Sapper” could increase the range to 1100 and grant a 50% chance to remove boons. These traits may sound powerful, but it might be worth remembering the tiny area of effect that mines had, and the unforgiving nature of having to consistently aim these at moving targets trying to run you over.

Past changes have caused the engineer to have to re-evaluate its role including the 30% damage nerf to the grenade auto attack which eventually lead to a shift from power focused engineers to condition focused engineers. This paired with the popularized “100 nades” build removed from the grenade kit the consistent need to land skill shots. Condition grenades, as with all condition builds at the moment have a “fire and forget” play style. Bringing back the mine kit could help enable the power and skill-shot engineer that was popularized last September to make a comeback.

TL;dr
-Bring back the mine kit, this would let the power- skill shot engineer make a comeback.
- A possible way to implement this would be to remove the blast finisher, boon removal and knock back from the mine kit and give them back as traits in the explosive line.
ie.
—“Claymore” could add a knock-back and a modest 5% damage boost to the mine kit while keeping the 900 throw range.
— “Sapper” could increase the range to 1100 and grant a 50% chance to remove boons.

I would like to see it back as well, a kit would make mines much more interesting to use.

From the oct 15 preview, one line Jonathan said struck me a lot for engineer changes. “These just didn’t have enough cool play to them, and we wanted to improve them.” Well Jon, I think you should add throw mine to this section too. Its kinda not fun to use (and they don’t last long enough to properly defend)

Mine kit was extremely overpowered and not that interesting, which is why it was changed to throw mine. I think it might be better to leave it as-is?

I’m not thinking about the mine kit per se exactly as it was back last September but something with a similar play-style that can be balanced to how the game is today. What was originally considered overpowered was the blast finishers on the tool belt skill, the mine kit in itself was immensely tedious to use or rather, was not used much at all but has the potential do be much more than throw mine is today.

the rumours are that there will be new skills added to the game such a new a new arcane heal for ele and such. dunno how much its true but if it is, hopefully we get new skills ( crossing fingers for a new kit) instead of trying to change misunderstood skills

I would prefer we move away from kits that have multiples of the same skill. That’s not really fun or engaging gameplay IMO.

The reason they got rid of mine kit in the first place was because it was awkward to use and had exceptionally boring skills. The only thing that made it OP was some traits that you could use with it, but those were completely removed from the game (not to mention people never dodged properly in beta). All this would do would reintroduce a kit that would never get used.

Besides, it would mess up their skill format. All profession (except engineer) have 5 categories of utility skills, and each category has 4 skills in it (healing and elite skills are not included in this). For instance, warriors have 4 each of shouts, banners, physical skills, stances, and signets. Engineer instead have 4 categories of utilities, each with 5 skills in it. That is, engineers have 5 each of turrets, kits, gadgets, and elixirs. If they took away a gadget and added another kit, that would make 4 gadgets and 6 kits.

the reason that made them OP was :

Unblockable
stripped boons like crazy
Knockback spam

so why not just change them to something like

Higher damage (they have small activation radius they should be pretty punishing )
make tool belt mine be the big one ya know the one that strips 2-3 boons and knocks back
1 to 5 mines wont have knockback and maybe strip 1 boon

pretty much what this changes do is enable engineers to actually setup minefields smart and effectively

Yamsandjams.3267:

The reason they got rid of mine kit in the first place was because it was awkward to use and had exceptionally boring skills. The only thing that made it OP was some traits that you could use with it, but those were completely removed from the game (not to mention people never dodged properly in beta). All this would do would reintroduce a kit that would never get used.

Besides, it would mess up their skill format. All profession (except engineer) have 5 categories of utility skills, and each category has 4 skills in it (healing and elite skills are not included in this). For instance, warriors have 4 each of shouts, banners, physical skills, stances, and signets. Engineer instead have 4 categories of utilities, each with 5 skills in it. That is, engineers have 5 each of turrets, kits, gadgets, and elixirs. If they took away a gadget and added another kit, that would make 4 gadgets and 6 kits.

and how many times exactly do you Even look at your Mine gadget again?

or use it in actual combat ?

one of the mine kit issues as you mentioned wasnt even kit related players were new and dint dodge, everyone’s gone through that when they started and then realized dodging is crucial

I love the idea of a mine kit for Engi. I’m guessing it was changed/removed due to the fact that it’s essentially gaining another type of skill…namely traps. This would be like a thief or ranger being able to bring all of their traps in 1 slot, spiking a target hard. And since engi have fantastic control, we could really lock someone down.

Imagine rifle, net turret, mine kit, toolkit. Pre-drop mines, pull target with magnet, mines spike, overload net turret, drop more mines, jumpshot, blunderbus, net shot, drop more mines….it’s too good.

Obviously, this example is against someone who’s afk, but you can see how this would just be so amazing the mines would get nerfed to uselessness.

Still want it though.

Seras.5702:

I love the idea of a mine kit for Engi. I’m guessing it was changed/removed due to the fact that it’s essentially gaining another type of skill…namely traps. This would be like a thief or ranger being able to bring all of their traps in 1 slot, spiking a target hard. And since engi have fantastic control, we could really lock someone down.

Imagine rifle, net turret, mine kit, toolkit. Pre-drop mines, pull target with magnet, mines spike, overload net turret, drop more mines, jumpshot, blunderbus, net shot, drop more mines….it’s too good.

Obviously, this example is against someone who’s afk, but you can see how this would just be so amazing the mines would get nerfed to uselessness.

Still want it though.

No actually it was removed because people just used it like an overpowered grenade kit, throwing the mines at people and then detonating them immediately. It was actually much better than the grenade kit, the projectiles were faster, could be placed behind you while running, and because the devs obviously weren’t expecting it to be used in such a direct way the scaling was crazy high.

At least on the first beta, then they changed it on the second beta to where it was more utility (knockbacks and condition procs), but even then people still just used it like a second grenade kit, throwing the mines at people and detonating. So it was removed, no reason to have two kits that play almost exactly the same.

Conncept.7638:

Seras.5702:

<snip>

No actually it was removed because people just used it like an overpowered grenade kit, throwing the mines at people and then detonating them immediately. It was actually much better than the grenade kit, the projectiles were faster, could be placed behind you while running, and because the devs obviously weren’t expecting it to be used in such a direct way the scaling was crazy high.

At least on the first beta, then they changed it on the second beta to where it was more utility (knockbacks and condition procs), but even then people still just used it like a second grenade kit, throwing the mines at people and detonating. So it was removed, no reason to have two kits that play almost exactly the same.

I barely touched Engi during beta so I don’t remember it well enough, but if that’s the case then I can see Anet’s trepidation. I would say I’m surprised they didn’t figure out a way to make it work, but since I’ve heard more than once that Engi was Anet’s final profession, I’m honestly not that surprised that they just gutted the kit and moved on.

Still, a mine kit would have been more thematically appropriate than elixirs. And I assume individual mines (ie traps) would have been too stationary, given our turrets.

I wouldn’t mind to a reincarnation of a “Mine Kit” in terms of being a trap/sabotage kit.

Something more like nade/bombs where they have different functions/flavors, but it would be focused on invisible trap set ups.

Not necessarily all being mines, but mostly, with a few things like net traps and what not.

Or hell maybe something that’s a cross between bombs and turrets, ranged invisible traps or something like that.

IMAGINE THAT KIT with boon removels+knobacks and prexepility runes.
10 engis dropping down zergs on wvw like nubs. NO WAY.

Dont forget the Bonfire, before the Engi team will drop the Zerg!!

yes, i got one from Hengis – u’re epic slacker!

Hvaran.6327:

IMAGINE THAT KIT with boon removels+knobacks and prexepility runes.
10 engis dropping down zergs on wvw like nubs. NO WAY.

What?? Getting ten engies at one time to drop mines all over the place? Pleaaase! Theres not enough around! :S

call me a lunatic but I want them to combine the bomb, grenade, & mine into 1 “demolition” kit. I hate the bomb and grenade kit now. The mine needs to be more like the Charr racial shrap mine, which does more damage and has more utility on a shorter cooldown.

Penguin.5197:

Hvaran.6327:

IMAGINE THAT KIT with boon removels+knobacks and prexepility runes.
10 engis dropping down zergs on wvw like nubs. NO WAY.

What?? Getting ten engies at one time to drop mines all over the place? Pleaaase! Theres not enough around! :S

rangers will reroll at last to engis) OP classes are more playble, u know that)

The aoe limit would prevent it from being especially useful in zergplay, where engineers already suffer. Furthermore, how is this any different than say, the necromancer staff? There have been blobs which have utilized mass necromancer marks to destroy opposing zergs lets not even get started with 10 necromancers using well timed epidemics and reapers marks.

Also, as to the often misinformed generic “rangers too UP huehuehue” lets completely forget about trap rangers, BM bunker rangers in the previous meta, spirit rangers and 20k quickening zephyr + rapid fires from power rangers in wvw stats. I would however moderately agree in a pve sense as frost spirit and spotter don’t contribute to a dungeon group as much as the raw damage offered by FGS/lightning hammer eles and zerk warriors To put some context on this, I main power ranger and power engineer in pvp in the current meta which requires extreme attention to positioning in the case of the ranger and general knowledge of all other professions play styles, skills and cool downs as a power engineer.

Essentially the only build that even looks at throw mine is the double grenade barrage kit refinement knock-off. In saying that the mine kit could be rebalanced to meet the needs of the current game, I also meant that the boon-stripping and knock-back do not need to be universal.