Guild Wars 2

So I have played engineer since head start and do fairly well with it, however one of my biggest gripes on this class is simply the fact that to have any sort of okay condition removal we are forced to take either elixir c or run a full elixir build that utilizes cleaning formula 409. I for one would like to see other options made available to us other than those 2. While healing turret is okay atm I feel like med kit condi removal is a joke and would like to see it buffed to remove between 2-3 conditions at least. Make a few of the gadgets have some sort of condition removal on them, because as it stands they are the least used of our utilities.

Any other engineers who wish to chime in with good ideas are more than welcome to, I just hate the fact that currently we are forced into elixirs to do any sort of okay condition removal, and even then unless you take C it still is by no means great.

1. complete agree with you we need something.

15% chance to remove condition on crit would be nice.
Or sweep to kit removes one condtion with 10 sec cooldown.

Condi remove on kit swap is a good idea.

15% on crit would need an ICD of 3-4 seconds at least were it implemented.

—

Honestly I wish they would remove Automated Response and give us more easily used condition removal, as what we have currently is balanced around a 30 point trait.

That is essentially what we had with the old kit refinement. Whenever you swapped to the FT or EG you triggered a ability either Flame blast or super elixir, respectively, both of which removed 1 condition in an AoE. At that times I ran 4 kit builds, and loved the engineer.

I still cannot believe they had to destroy kit refinement. They could have moved it to another tier, or nerfed the individual skill cool down anyway, RIP kit refinement, we still think of you.

As the only true condition removal utility we have is elixir C (although healing turret helps alot now), I would love to see the tool belt skill “analyze” changed to “gas mask”. Offering benefits to the gadget sub set of utilities as a whole. This would propose moving the vulnerability debuff to the utility skill of utility goggles making it a fury buff and vulnerability debuff, while making the tool belt skill into a condition removal.

This, in my opinion would give gadgets both a condition removal with utility goggles utility and a stun breaker with slick shoes., somewhat empowering a full gadget build.

This would give gadgets a condition removal, elixirs a condition removal (elixir c) and turrets a condition removal (healing turret), This only leaves Kits.

I would suggest making a grand master trait called cleansing kits. Upon kit swap, a condition is removed. 10s cool down per kit. Meaning if you have a 4 kit build, you could remove 4 conditions every 10s. The trade off of it, is that you are basically being ineffective for a short time, in the time you are cleansing, because your swapping through kits.

A grandmaster in the inventions line. replacing rifle turret barrel and moving rifle turret barrel to a master level trait, to replace Auto tool Installation and simply remove auto tool installation entirely or or better yet, merge auto-tool installation with power wrench

Alternatively, I kind of like K U T M ’ s suggestion. Perhaps remove Automated Response altogether and put cleansing kits there.

coglin.1867:

Alternatively, I kind of like K U T M ’ s suggestion. Perhaps remove Automated Response altogether and put cleansing kits there.

Eh, due to what you said about being essentially useless while cleansing yourself, it could probably be added in as a 20 point trait.

Would leave a spot for a new GM trait, too.

you might be right. TBH though, your only ineffective by choice to use it to remove 4 conditions, and for how ever long it would take you to scroll through all 4 kits.

It would be pretty tricky to balance. I’d probably view it as passive condition removal as I’m basically going through kits at all times.

At 3 kits it’s already as strong as Ranger’s Empathetic Bond, and it doesn’t have the trade off of damaging your pet.

At 4 kits it’s way stronger. The ICD per kit would have to be above 10 seconds to be balanced.

E: Of course not everyone runs 3-4 kits…So it could be both weaker or stronger depending on the person.

Bah w/e.

Its not much but in the dec 10 patch we are supposed to be getting this.
Alchemy 15 – Transmute. Increased % chance from 8% to 100%. This effect can now only trigger once every 15 seconds.

Chuck Zitto.2367:

Its not much but in the dec 10 patch we are supposed to be getting this.
Alchemy 15 – Transmute. Increased % chance from 8% to 100%. This effect can now only trigger once every 15 seconds.

That’s a nerf imo.

Well it could be a 20s CD for balancing reasons, and I wouldn’t complain.

As for transmute, I feel it is a buff. As with an 8% chance we have now, is random and can go a long time with out procing due to its total randomness. The change would guarantee procs every 15s. As most players tend to either start with a immobilize, or their longest and strongest condition attack, I feel it is a great buff. That is just my take on it.

yeye i very much agree not enough cleanse on ng

ohh and the transmute thing is totally a nerf

K U T M.4539:

Chuck Zitto.2367:

Its not much but in the dec 10 patch we are supposed to be getting this.
Alchemy 15 – Transmute. Increased % chance from 8% to 100%. This effect can now only trigger once every 15 seconds.

That’s a nerf imo.

I think so.

Before it would convert 1 in 13 incoming attacks. Necro sceptre (for example) adds condition on each of three swings, on average you’re looking at a boon every 4 rounds of auto attack (12 swings). How many seconds does that take? Looks like cast on each swing is 1/2 second, so that’s a round every 2 seconds. So, in 16 seconds you looking at converting 2 boons from auto-attack alone.

So, I’d say a definite nerf!

I’ve really noticed our lack condition clense in the Tower. I run a static discharge PvE build and Confusion just destroys me. Also, trying to run past mobs in any sort of dungeon and Cripple is a serious problem.

I guess we have Leg Mods for that but still… maybe I was spoilt on necro?

dibstaru.1358:

Before it would convert 1 in 13 incoming attacks.

No, no, and no.
What it does is offer chance to remove an average of one condition in thirteen. That means it you could take 130 condition application, then have it remove 10 in a row. That is how probability works in this case. In the same not, it could convert the first 10 applications of conditions you take, yet not the next 130. The new system offers consistency.

Considering how hard we have to fight against being hosed with RnG issues in our traits, skills, and utilities, I am shocked that anyone is here segueing so hard in favor of RnG in our profession.

We’re engineers. They could get so creative.

Gadgets:
Throw Mine could aoe cleanse 1 condition.
Slick Shoes or Super Speed could self cleanse 1-3 conditions.

Turrets:
A trait for turret detonation aoe cleansing 1 condition with an ICD (possibly rolled into Accelerant Packed Turrets).
Rumble could cleanse conditions.

Kits:
EG’s Healing Mist could cleanse conditions, either self or small range aoe.
MK’s Drop Antidote needs to cleanse 3 conditions.

Elite:
Supply Crate could drop Antidotes as well as health packs.
Mortar’s Launch Elixir could aoe cleanse 2 conditions.

Traits:
Endless possibilities. Could add it to Kit Refinement for EG or TK for instance.

Of all classes at the moment engis have, by far, the least condi removal. 2 every 15 seconds attached to a heal.

It’s even worse than mesmers who have the convenience of being a power class that’s able to use lyssa in addition to their mantra or nullfield….

It’s very depressing to see our survivability continually nerfed when it’s the weakest aspect of any viable engineer build by a long shot… We’re the only class that must choose between a stun break and condi clear.

K U T M.4539:

Chuck Zitto.2367:

Its not much but in the dec 10 patch we are supposed to be getting this.
Alchemy 15 – Transmute. Increased % chance from 8% to 100%. This effect can now only trigger once every 15 seconds.

That’s a nerf imo.

What ppl learn in maths? Let’s regard the first 15 sec of a fight after the point you receive the first condition:

New version: converts immidiatly the first condition. Converts the seond condition after 15 sec. So we got 2 condition removes in first 15 sec.

Old verson: 8% of converting. To get 2 convertions in the first 15 sec you need to receive 25! conditions in 15 seconds. Are you really sure about your oppinion? If you really receive 25 conditions in 15 sec – yes then it is a nerf not regarding the disadvantages of RNG.

Seriously, with a little bit of thinking and a little bit of clue, no one can say this is a nerf.

Seras.5702:

We’re engineers. They could get so creative.

Gadgets:
Throw Mine could aoe cleanse 1 condition.
Slick Shoes or Super Speed could self cleanse 1-3 conditions.

Turrets:
A trait for turret detonation aoe cleansing 1 condition with an ICD (possibly rolled into Accelerant Packed Turrets).
Rumble could cleanse conditions.

Kits:
EG’s Healing Mist could cleanse conditions, either self or small range aoe.
MK’s Drop Antidote needs to cleanse 3 conditions.

Elite:
Supply Crate could drop Antidotes as well as health packs.
Mortar’s Launch Elixir could aoe cleanse 2 conditions.

Traits:
Endless possibilities. Could add it to Kit Refinement for EG or TK for instance.

For the most part, I can applaud your creativity here. To be fair though, when it comes to turrets, we already have an active condition removal in healing turret. If anything that may need to be increased to more then the amount it cleanses now, but I feel turrets shouldn’t get another form of condition removal.

I can agree that gadgets need something, as I have expressed my own ideas on that matter.

As well I could get completely behind the idea of something for kits too, as I have also expressed ideas to this. But, I feel adding to healing mist id over powered based simply on the fact that it is already a stun breaker with AoE regeneration. To have a skill break stun, heal in an AoE and remove conditions, is over the top in my opinion. I do like the idea of antidote cleansing more conditions, the problem I see with that though, is that immobilize is a condition and can completely prevent you from procuring the dropped antidote.

I used to agree with the OP and many others here that we didn’t have enough condition removal.

Then I started using the 10s light field on the Elixir Gun’s Super Elixir skill comboed with Throw Wrench and our various other 20% chance projectile finishers for extra condition cleanse and I’m happy.

We may need more to support other builds, but there is more to our condition cleansing ability than has been represented in this thread.

Ostricheggs.3742:

Of all classes at the moment engis have, by far, the least condi removal. 2 every 15 seconds attached to a heal.

It’s even worse than mesmers who have the convenience of being a power class that’s able to use lyssa in addition to their mantra or nullfield….

It’s very depressing to see our survivability continually nerfed when it’s the weakest aspect of any viable engineer build by a long shot… We’re the only class that must choose between a stun break and condi clear.

Mesmer condi removal is getting a pretty huge buff Dec 10th, too.

abiyde.5064:

Then I started using the 10s light field on the Elixir Gun’s Super Elixir skill comboed with Throw Wrench and our various other 20% chance projectile finishers for extra condition cleanse and I’m happy.

At least in tpvp this is impossible to pull off unless your opponent is braindead.

Also the condition cleanse being a very small aoe around the target hit sure as hell doesnt help.

In PvE this is ok – in PvP its borderline useless. (Also having to use elixir gun and one of our mostly hillariously bad projectile finishers doesnt leave much free room to adjust builds)

abiyde.5064:

I used to agree with the OP and many others here that we didn’t have enough condition removal.

Then I started using the 10s light field on the Elixir Gun’s Super Elixir skill comboed with Throw Wrench and our various other 20% chance projectile finishers for extra condition cleanse and I’m happy.

We may need more to support other builds, but there is more to our condition cleansing ability than has been represented in this thread.

That is a ridiculously unreliable self cleanse. For one, it will never remove a single condition from you solo by using those projectile finishers.

Ostricheggs.3742:

It’s very depressing to see our survivability continually nerfed when it’s the weakest aspect of any viable engineer build by a long shot…

Also this^

reposted for emphasis

cant wait for next patch – condi grenades finally useless as well without cd reduce + burn
no more perma vigor – transmute nerfed thru the ground

yay

With tanky builds, transmute has been really nice, but it’s being modified next patch. With that said, I agree, it’s very silly that the only reliable form of condi removal is elixirs. I often find myself running melandru runes, condi reduce food, and transmute, I still get loaded with conditions if I’m not playing with elixirs.

coglin.1867:

abiyde.5064:

I used to agree with the OP and many others here that we didn’t have enough condition removal.

Then I started using the 10s light field on the Elixir Gun’s Super Elixir skill comboed with Throw Wrench and our various other 20% chance projectile finishers for extra condition cleanse and I’m happy.

We may need more to support other builds, but there is more to our condition cleansing ability than has been represented in this thread.

That is a ridiculously unreliable self cleanse. For one, it will never remove a single condition from you solo by using those projectile finishers.

I don’t think you understand how the defensive effects like regen and condi cleanse work with projectile finishers.

The person that initiates the projectile finisher gets the benefit of the defensive effect. Not friendly toons that happen to be in the way of the projectile. I just tested this to be absolutely double certain before replying.

Also, Super Elixir aoe cleanses one condition when it is first cast. It is not on the tooltip, but the wiki mentions it and I tested it to be true.

Throw Wrench is a 100% projectile finisher. So, it is reliable.

Our spammable #1 skills are just 20% and I agree are unreliable. But if you need to cleanse conditions, auto attacking for the 10s duration of the field should give you 1-2 extra cleanses. The auto attacks aren’t great, but they are sure a lot better when you are using them to combo.

So Super Elixir + Throw Wrench gives us two more reliable cleanses on a 20s CD.

And we have another 1-2 unreliable cleanses if we choose to use them.

You my friend, need to seriously revise your manner of testing, as your result have mislead you into a very very deep pool of inaccuracy.

Hmm last I tested, whirls and projectiles still didn’t cleanse the caster. Sigh, gonna have to test again.

No, coglin is 100% correct it only cleanses things in its path. So unless you are right on top of them it will not work man, I just tested it. Also even if what you said is correct look at what kind of work you are talking about doing for 1 condition removal…. I mean seriously. Take a look at necromancers 100% condition cleanse on heal and then means of transferring them back, while having the ability to put out crazy condition pressure just like engineers.
Take a look at warriors the ability to spec so that any build they use has the ability to cleanse up to 3 conditions every 10-12 seconds just by using an ability they would use anyway. My point is we would have to waste a utility slot for condi removal that is better used for taking kits to supplement our otherwise subpar damage. Unfortunatley that is what happens when you have no weapon swap.

Okay, we’re both kind of right.

I was testing with point blank enemies which seems to work. But at range it doesn’t work.

Either a new master level trait (“Antiseptic”?) or add it to packaged stimulants, but I think a trait that allowed bandages to remove a single condition each would both give a general buff in the form of the occasional supply crate and help kits by buffing the med kit condi removal.

Forestnator.6298:

K U T M.4539:

Chuck Zitto.2367:

Its not much but in the dec 10 patch we are supposed to be getting this.
Alchemy 15 – Transmute. Increased % chance from 8% to 100%. This effect can now only trigger once every 15 seconds.

That’s a nerf imo.

What ppl learn in maths? Let’s regard the first 15 sec of a fight after the point you receive the first condition:

New version: converts immidiatly the first condition. Converts the seond condition after 15 sec. So we got 2 condition removes in first 15 sec.

Old verson: 8% of converting. To get 2 convertions in the first 15 sec you need to receive 25! conditions in 15 seconds. Are you really sure about your oppinion? If you really receive 25 conditions in 15 sec – yes then it is a nerf not regarding the disadvantages of RNG.

Seriously, with a little bit of thinking and a little bit of clue, no one can say this is a nerf.

Yet i still consider this is a nerf. Because now it surely converts an incoming condition every 15s…but we have no control upon its activation.
Whereas before this didn’t matter – as it basically worked as a sort of passive defense against conditions – having such an activation makes it easily avoidable by any enemy. They just have to trigger it with some small bleeding, something even an autoattack can do.

@coglin: The reason I added turret-based cleanse ideas is because I felt like it could make a turret build more viable. As it is, they have a lot of traits and are 1/4 of our utility options, yet nobody brings them for anything other than control, and that’s PvP only.

As for EG’s Mist, yea I thought about potential OPness too, but I was trying to add cleansing to lesser used tools. I love the kit, but I didn’t think EG was used much.

abiyde.5064:

Okay, we’re both kind of right.

I was testing with point blank enemies which seems to work. But at range it doesn’t work.

It doesn’t work the way you think at melee range. Think of the cleanse as a splash originating from the target. Projectile finisher through the field and hit the enemy and it cleanses conditions from allies within a small range of the target. So if you’re at point blank range it splashes you for the cleanse.

Ostricheggs.3742:

Of all classes at the moment engis have, by far, the least condi removal. 2 every 15 seconds attached to a heal.

It’s even worse than mesmers who have the convenience of being a power class that’s able to use lyssa in addition to their mantra or nullfield….

It’s very depressing to see our survivability continually nerfed when it’s the weakest aspect of any viable engineer build by a long shot…

Have to repost this for emphasis again. Sooo trueeee.

Also @ all the people who dont understand how projectile + light field work here is how:

It cleanses in a VERY SMALL AOE around the target hit.
So in order to pull it off successfully all you have to do is:

- put down 10 second elixir gun lightfield and pretty much stand in it (because if u dont youre either not getting the combo at all or youre not in melee range of your opponent so it doesnt do anything anyway
- be in melee range
- pray your opponent doesnt just walk away a few steps
- pray your opponent doesnt blind/block/dodge
- bring 2 specific utility skills – one of which HAS to be elixir gun and the other HAS to be a projectile finisher

GZ! You have now successfully cleansed ONE CONDITION.

Do whirl finishers even work for yourself? I thought they only removed conditions off allies.

Phineas Poe.3018:

Do whirl finishers even work for yourself? I thought they only removed conditions off allies.

I think youre correct! my mistake! Whirl actually cleanses on hitting friendlys
. Too lazy to test though might still be wrong but vaguely remember it this way as well – really not sure.

i am VERY sure about light field + projectile though.

^removed whirl from previous post

Projectiles work as you indicated. Like you said, it’s a really tiny AoE, though. I wouldn’t recommend building around it. I only really use it PvP situations where I have Throw Wrench in my build and am already nearby my target for Pry Bar.

I didn’t realize how many of my tanky engi builds were transmute reliant. It’s especially apparent now in sPvP where I can’t have my condi reduction food. Transmute change was a huge nerf for me.

I hope that this change to transmute has opened up the eyes of devs to how lacking condi removal is for kits, turrets, and gadgets.

Some ideas for traits:
Kit swaps remove condis on some sort of cooldown
Fumigate removes conditions for the engineer as well, maybe at a lower # though.
Gadget and/or turret toolbelt skills remove condis
The 5 slot skill for each kit removes a condition
Mortar – Add an AoE cleanse skill
Deploying turrets does a tiny aoe cleanse.
Using a block skill removes conditions for each attack blocked (I know, sounds too strong, but AMAZING)
Cleanse conditions when entering Elixir X.
more antidotes in supply crate

Of course you couldn’t have all of these things, but some of them would be nice!