Guild Wars 2

After leveling up and loving the challenge and craziness of the Engineer, I’m now utterly stuck in a grenade rut. The damage and utility are through the roof, and I find myself spoiled by it.

What are some builds that enable me to be effective in dungeons that DON’T involve grenades?

The easiest way to quit Grenades is by taking them into Tournament PvP. You’ll quickly realise how awful they are against anything other than A.I.

Elixer gun is great in dungeons imo. I really wanna see a build that uses the toolkit in pve though. Haha.

Thats why I said “in dungeons”

Try a bomb/elixir gun build in dungeons. The combos add a nice edge.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQFAUlIq6Z3yyuF17IyIFf2ECSBgVXfeIXpVbB;TkAg0CnoqxUjoGbNuak1MIA

Something like that. Access to water, light, fire and smoke fields and 5 separate blast finishers with 18, 20, 30, 37 and 180 timers respectively, means you just about always have a field to lay and blast finisher to activate it.

I thought mine field was no longer a blast finisher which would make it 4 blast finishers

Personally, I really like my CC build with rifle, med kit, bomb kit (for the tool belt and AoE if needed), mine, and battering ram. I didn’t think I would like gadgets, but the build is a blast because solo melee will never touch you, and you can keep ranged knocked down (with mines and rifle 5, 3, 4) and blinded enough to stand toe to toe with anything. For multiple mobs i just use bomb kit.

The PBR is the least necessary (it really does need more range), and I frequently switch it out for elixir B, slick shoes, elixir gun, or grenades depending on the situation.

The build takes a bit longer to kill things, but you’re nigh invincible (unless the target is immune to CC – then the build is crap).

Sevoha is right. Mine field is no longer a blast finisher.

The OP specified a build for dungeons. The bomb/elixir build that Cribbage suggested has 2 knockbacks, BOB and the Throw Mine Detonation. Do knockbacks annoy your party members in dungeons/pve? You don’t have to use BOB, but why slot Throw Mine?

i love most of our kits, but they feel gimicky, and unpolished. Once engineers finally get soem real love in patches, and we have sigil proc’s through kits etc, ill start to expand my love of engineer into kit builds, but as for now, i dislike kit builds.

(copy and paste web address into adress bar, cannot click link)
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcEQJAqalspSXnvShF17IBoH5t+8V0jHTZI/pAbB;ToAAzCpo6y4lwLLMuukwMqYWB

this is the standard alchemist build, tweek it however you please. Its not ful lblown tanky, but it can mitigate ahefty amount of damage. You have a ton of boon up-time, and with pistol shots piercing, the bleeds/fire on a group of mobs that spread is mouth watering…. just stay very mobile and focus on your positioning…. this build has very high condition damage, my auto attack gets up to 700-800 a second in bleeds, hits for 200 crits for 350, and every third hit applys a hefty 1k burn, and thats Just the auto spam, which pierces through targets, not to mention has a small AE damage off each target hit, that seemingly can also proc my bleed/fire on crits. In a nut shell, this is a moderate dmaage build, that can outlast people, and has a ton of friendly utility and condition removal.

or swap out some of the armor runes for might duration, and change the grandmaster traits to flamethrower juggernaut, and then all elixers give 20sec of might, and you can be a little powerhouse with the flamethrower out….. sometimes getting up to roughly 20-25 stacks of might, with extremely high toughness, and constant condition removal on yourself, with good AE damage, that can add up quickly.

i agree with the OP though, im Soooo freeking burnt out on nades its not even funny…. i think everybody should start playing with other builds before the nade range is nerfed…. (in my opinion, theyre either gunna nerf the dmg, or the range. or Both, make it opposite of mesmer GS, the further away the less dmg they do, etc etc)

Edit: Durr, i was ranting about more PVP centric, but ive used an alchemisty build in dungeons before, swap a few utilities and trait runes around, varys per dungeon… but most of my point was their are things other than Nades that are effective still. Sure they may be the best by numbers, but thats situational…

I had fun with an alchemy flamethrower build.

10
30
0
30
0

Rifle, elixir H, elixir B, elixir R, flamethrower, supply crate

Grenade has better damage and utility than any other kit. It isn’t just you. The problem is the kits are just badly balanced.

You can do other builds and do fine but the math is pretty clear: grenades blow everything else out of the water.

Sevoha.6724

I thought mine field was no longer a blast finisher which would make it 4 blast finishers

I’m actually not sure. You could always swap it for Thumper Turret instead.

the numbers ‘can’ be better, but thats a biased opinion… some people play better with certain specs… im not bad with Nades, sure they do a ton of damage, but i dont have fun playing them, which is what the OP is getting at….

all builds are situational, and take advantage of certain situations, and its up to you as the player to find and abuse those situations…. Nades doing more ‘damage’ is irrelevant if you are personally more adapted and fluid with a Non-Nade build…

First off I love the grenades. almost all my dungeon general setup includes grenades.

Pure damage and the ability to throw over obstacles the grenades have. However I have found a few areas in dungeons where grenades suck to have.The location have low ceilings so if you are not up close and personal your grenades often hit the ceiling.

Last time I check the healing and condition cleansing factor of the grenade is nil . So the elixir rifle or elixirs are the way to go there. Also I can CC a single target better with a rifle and net turret.

Follow up on this – tried a few other builds… Man ANET needs to do something about this. It really feels like raw damage across the board needs a boost. The DPS difference is massive – and all the side benefits of grenades (easy vulnerability stacks, constant vigor, burst DPS with swiftness, etc) are totally indispensable in dungeons. It appears to be THE PvE spec if you’re serious about helping your team.

PVP I’m sure is different – I could actually see using turrets and a rifle in that sense. Where in dungeons, I wouldn’t be caught dead.

Nah, flamethrower/alchemist is very supportive in dungeons… like a 10/30/0/30/0

or even an elixer gun build, to stack on weakness. Your asuming your only job is to DPS..

plus, the vigor/swiftness etc effects work on every weapon, every kit, any crit…. not just nades???? not sure if i understood you correctly on that one… and if you mean quickness, quickness with pistol piercing can add up a ton of damage fast if your careful with your own positioning…

nades are just Boring to me… stand and spam…

I typically run a condition build with p/p and flamethrower/elixir gun combo and swap around the third utility as needed for a group/pve based build. Either 10/30/0/30/0 for burn on crit for more punch, or I use 0/30/0/30/10 for kit refinement and keeping super elixir up for condition removal and constant heals. Flamethrower/elixir gun pairs well together, obviously, from the traits.

Honestly, the first response had it dead on. Go into tPvP or failing that sPvP.

No, it had it absolutely dead wrong. Everyone knows grenades suck for damage in sPvP, it’s not a response that’s going to impress or inform anyone, and it wasn’t even what he was asking.

Right now in pve there is absolutely nothing an engineer can do that even approaches the damage and utility that the grenade kit puts out. Please dont start with the “LOL ELIXIR GUN” because grenade specs can just as easily (and should) carry an elixir gun to throw down light fields and fumigates as an elixir specced build, while simultaneously putting out tons of offensive control and damage that elixir builds can’t hope to match.

Compounding this problem is the fact that grenade spam is an exhausting (physically and mentally) and unfun experience. It being our only effectively viable pve build really puts a damper on my enthusiasm for my engineer in dungeons and the overworld, and I’ve just started playing other classes because they’re simply more fun.

Subhuman Filth.9562:

No, it had it absolutely dead wrong. Everyone knows grenades suck for damage in sPvP, it’s not a response that’s going to impress or inform anyone, and it wasn’t even what he was asking.

Right now in pve there is absolutely nothing an engineer can do that even approaches the damage and utility that the grenade kit puts out. Please dont start with the “LOL ELIXIR GUN” because grenade specs can just as easily (and should) carry an elixir gun to throw down light fields and fumigates as an elixir specced build, while simultaneously putting out tons of offensive control and damage that elixir builds can’t hope to match.

Compounding this problem is the fact that grenade spam is an exhausting (physically and mentally) and unfun experience. It being our only effectively viable pve build really puts a damper on my enthusiasm for my engineer in dungeons and the overworld, and I’ve just started playing other classes because they’re simply more fun.

Using bombkit as an example, you can easily pull multiple groups and kite/kill them all where you would normally kill 1 group at a time with grenades.

In other words, say you’re in cursed shore. My pvp bomb bunker build can easily pull 3-5 groups, often including veterans, and because of my speed buffs, traits, and bomb’s defensive abilities, I can kite all of them and kill them.

With a grenade kit build, I can kill 1-2 groups much faster than a bomb kit build, but you really don’t have the traits (30 point investment in explosives limits you a bit) and the lack of the utility of bombs 3-5 and big ol’ bomb makes it much harder to take on more than 2 groups at a time.

Now, for dungeons, I would say both are equally viable. Here’s my reasoning. Yes, grenades will do much more damage. But a proper bomb build will have much higher defensive and kiting ability. What this means in practice is that where a group might wipe (and wipe you will in dungeons), especially in boss fights as an example, you have a very good chance of surviving and thus preventing a boss from resetting .

Combine this added survivability with your various support skills (e.g. elixir gun, toss elixir r’s aoe rez) and you have a very useful build. In fact, preventing wipes, especially against bosses, directly leads to clearing the dungeon faster which can lead to more rewards/hour which is what everyone wants.

Lyuben.2613:

I had fun with an alchemy flamethrower build.

10
30
0
30
0

Rifle, elixir H, elixir B, elixir R, flamethrower, supply crate

No elixir U? 0_o I would drop B for U in a heartbeat.

You know you can throw grenades behind you, right? You can make it function exactly like the bomb kit, but for much higher damage. The only significant thing you lose is smoke bomb, which isn’t really relevant for kiting anyway.

Grenades are not bad in spvp.
You can miss 2/3 of the time, and STILL do more damage then pretty much any other weapon.
They are bad, if you are bad, and if you didn’t put any effort into making a good team comp.
Even then, drop out of grenades to set them up via rifle or pistol CC. And/or use net turret CC, or slick shoes.

Spvp is not a duel. if you go into it expecting to 1v1, then yeah, you are going to have a hard time with grenades.
If you go into it with a partner or two that will build to your strengths and weaknesses..
Mesmer(feedback, nullfield, timewarp,knockdowns) + guardian (stability, wall, knockdowns)+grenades(raw damage)… Slaughter everyone.

but uh yeah.

Try bombs or elixir gun.
Bomb is like melee grenades with knockbacks and better combo fields. Less raw damage, doesn’t stack vul as fast, and melee.. but still.

Elixir gun has a ton of support options. make sure to take kit refinement. don’t use fumigate.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQJAqelspCYnuSrF17IBoHAuu3V0jH34J/pAbB;TkAg0U6Y0RojVHnOSdGVMLA

Another alchemy flamethrower build. Works really well in small skirmish type engagements in WvW.

Also, you are already pushing your survivability to its limits without Elixer U. Elixer B adds far more utlity (the swiftness specifically), has a lower cooldown, and still has great synergy with stacking conditions on crit. Since I don’t take swiftness on crits its vital I have some sort of reliable form of swiftness.

yeah, not a fan of U. The debuff and short duration kills it. It is not as good as other professions quickness. and its going to come in the place of another ability. one that WILL work when you need it to.
B and R are my go-tos in pve and wvw. In spvp, I could see dropping B for S.

B in general, is just so good. its stable. gives the same buffs all the time. short CD.
With hgh. 2 stacks of might, fury, swiftness, and retaliation. So good. The throw, is pretty pointless of course, save hgh and 409.
75% life Elixir B+Elixir B itself giving a ton of duration on fury,ret. 4 stacks of might. Again awesome.
But its just raw stats. S of course has a special effect. Not having it, probably means you have no option to ensure a stomp doesn’t get interrupted. in pve, and wvw, not a big deal. in Spvp, a big deal.

R’s self res and periodic cleansing. amazing. Its stun break, and extra dodge rolls. as well. Dont pvp without it.

I would not recommend flamethrower. Its mathematically suppar. Pistols do better damage, apply burns better. Blinds better. As well as poison/confuse, and immobilize. don’t waste a slot. The KB is all ft has over pistols. Which, can be gained elsewhere. Anything ft can do, bombs/pistols does better. (or p/s if its the reflect you want)

Casia.4281:

Grenades are not bad in spvp.
You can miss 2/3 of the time, and STILL do more damage then pretty much any other weapon.
They are bad, if you are bad, and if you didn’t put any effort into making a good team comp.

This post is full of crap. Assuming full glass cannon gear, max power, crit damage, and 70% crit due to perma-fury grenades do average of 1800dps. Loosing 2/3 of that puts you at 600dps which is simply pathetic for full glass cannon.

The moment a single grenade (of the 3 thrown) misses, bomb kit does more damage.
I’m going to reiterate. Grenades have 3 small-ish independent AoE’s. They overlap in a tiny area where you can do decent damage. Everywhere else in that green reticle (if you have it enabled)? You do 2/3 or 1/3 damage.

Bombs have a slightly larger total area. No matter where your target is in that area, they take FULL damage.

@Subhuman Filth
“You know you can throw grenades behind you, right? You can make it function exactly like the bomb kit, but for much higher damage. The only significant thing you lose is smoke bomb, which isn’t really relevant for kiting anyway.”

Unless your target is directly behind you, and consistently staying 300-400 units behind you, you’re going to be doing partial damage. In reality, there is no situation in any form of pvp (or even pve) where you can kite in a straight line for a long time. The moment you start moving in anything but a straight direction (e.g. kiting in a circle), grenades will start missing.

Bombs on the other hand, always do full damage, which with any power is more than what 2 grenades do. 2 grenades<Bombs<3 grenades for damage. And again, Bombs always do full damage across their entire AoE, unlike grenades which on their outer radius only do 1/3 damage.

bombs are point blank. Grenades thrown at point blank never miss. They explode on contact, and don’t have a chance to spread. They only spread if you throw them at great range, downwards. you should be landing them 100% 0-1000 range every time. 1500, yes they might spread on you. 1500 uphill, 100% of the time, as they wont spread until they arc down.

First, grenades always spread. Drop Poison grenade anywhere and you can see the spread.

Second, bombs are not point blank. If I am kiting , bombs will detonate around 400 units behind me with a blast radius somewhere between 200-300 where they do full damage across the ENTIRE radius. That’s not point blank.

If you’re standing perfectly still, they’re point blank, but if you’re standing perfectly still you’re doing EVERYTHING wrong.

Edit: Please post a video of you in spvp hitting with all 3 grenades 100% of the time at or below 1000 range across an entire match. I’ll wait. Unless you play against ridiculously bad people, this won’t happen ever.

I actually quit my engineer because grenade spam dps pretty much doubles anything else I could do in PVE but the ground targeting makes it really tiresome in the long run. You could argue thats the whole point but that would be pretty bad game design in my opinion.

Heh..

Yo Potato, i like your style.

and, i freeking hate nades…. no matter what Anyone says….. (but, thats my opinion!)