Guild Wars 2

After using flamethrower for so long only for the 2 skill nuke and the utilities I feel really dirty camping flamethrower’s AA for damage now. Especially when I’m so used to switching back to something like grenades where everything is a skill shot.

If you’re using FF you basically NEED to be using Juggernaut right? Otherwise it feels like a waste, and it also feels like a waste if you’re not camping FF when using this trait.

Anybody else have conflicting feelings about the updated FF?

Ameno.6813:

After using flamethrower for so long only for the 2 skill nuke and the utilities I feel really dirty camping flamethrower’s AA for damage now. Especially when I’m so used to switching back to something like grenades where everything is a skill shot.

If you’re using FF you basically NEED to be using Juggernaut right? Otherwise it feels like a waste, and it also feels like a waste if you’re not camping FF when using this trait.

Anybody else have conflicting feelings about the updated FF?

Well, thats the fun part of playing Engi. You get to choose what playstyle you want.
FT is more targetted yes, less skillshots. Im glad for the buffs though – previously FT just wasnt viable in PvE and people would even blame engineers for using them instead of grenades. Now, they have competitive damage and a low-CD blast finisher.

I ran a FT-power build even before the patch, and i still have fun using it at times. Try wielding a rifle in your main hand, and then traiting 0-6-0-6-2, with rifle and FT damage and CD traits (along with speedy kits, or anywhere else you want those 2 points). In this build, your rifle 3-5 and sometimes 4 are part of your sequence – quickly swap back to your rifle to roll them off. You can use elixir B to gain stability to use the 4 without penalty, and it adds extra might and boons. 5 is very nice damage, and 3 is on a low cooldown and, in short range, nice damage too.
As engi, im constantly swapping out my other two skills.
Your FT2 is a low cooldown blast finisher, so if you dont have a staff ele in your party, you can run bomb kit to provide a bunch of extra combo fields. Also pop your FT4 down for another fire field to finish. Your 5 has absolutely no cast time, so just cast that whenever its off cooldown. Blind may not do very much in PvE, but its better than no blind :p. And, say, in Mai Trins fractal, magnet is great for moving her around, so put that in one of your skill slots and use your FT3 and rifle 4 to whittle down the CC block, then position her in lightning fields with your magnet.

The thing about juggernaut is that it grants you might you will not have in parties. Well you will have might in parties, but everyone will have might at parties, and 25 stacks is the cap. You won’t really benefit from this trait there.

However while playing solo, you can easy go for it, it’s great for open world if you like the FT. However FT aa is still weak and is just there for style. It would be great if the skill would deal really great damage but well … we don’t have the flame legion technology, do we? :/

FT in PvE is sign of bad engineer:-)

Rozbuska.5263:

FT in PvE is sign of bad engineer:-)

1. I don’t play PvE, this thread is more in regards to PvP where Juggernaut is a very worthwhile trait.
2. FT in it’s current state has it’s uses in all game modes, anybody who says otherwise is a bad engineer:-). Camping flamethrower on the other hand, is another subject entirely which is why I’m trying to discuss it here. If you have something to add to this conversation then please do so, otherwise keep your chide remarks to yourself as it adds absolutely nothing to this conversation it only makes your look like an kitten .

Rozbuska.5263:

FT in PvE is sign of bad engineer:-)

Or someone who just likes to use Flamethrower. It’s PvE, it’s not like it matters what spec you’re running – everything works everywhere, with very few exceptions. Being judgemental over what people use in PvE is just…well, it’s just being judgemental for the sake of it.

I’ve never really used it much, but I think the conflicting feelings have a lot to do with the frenetic swapping style that’s been so heavily emphasized; after so long using so many, it seems strange to use only a few. I have the same sort of experience when I switch between skillsets, myself.

Rozbuska.5263:

FT in PvE is sign of bad engineer:-)

Bashing a viable play style in PvE (lets face it, everything is viable in PvE), and making a point to inaccurately claim others are bad for playing what they like, in my opinion, is the sign of bad advice.

Flamethrower has always been useful during events with lots of weak foes. Grenade Kit or Bomb Kit have a delay so you may not be able to tag as many foes as with Flamethrower.

With Flamethrower #2 being a blast finisher now it’s also somewhat useful to bring alongside Grenade Kit/Bomb Kit if your party lacks Might stacks.

Even if you don’t use Flamethrower in your build it’s still handy to switch one of your utility slots with Flamethrower, use #4 for a 10 second fire field (and nowadays #2 for blast finisher) and then switch back to your original utility skill.

Some people argue that FT is great for solo open PvE now, but I’m not really convinced of that. Grenade Kit and Bomb Kit have superior Blind and snares, and on top of that can be used while kiting (FT #1 forces you to look towards your target most of the time, greatly diminishing your mobility). And as a third utility slot I cannot see how it’s more useful than an allrounder like Elixir Gun.

I still don’t think Flamethrower is strong enough to be used as your main weapon. Its damage is only slightly higher than Bomb Kit #1. If you fight against more than 3 foes at a time or not hitting with both hits of Flamethrower #2 and Bomb Kit #1 overtakes it again.

DesertRose.2031:

I still don’t think Flamethrower is strong enough to be used as your main weapon. Its damage is only slightly higher than Bomb Kit #1. If you fight against more than 3 foes at a time or not hitting with both hits of Flamethrower #2 and Bomb Kit #1 overtakes it again.

I am curious. What builds are you comparing, what method, and what conditions, you used to determined FT #1 out damaged Bomb #1?

dancingmonkey.4902:

I am curious. What builds are you comparing, what method, and what conditions, you used to determined FT #1 out damaged Bomb #1?

I compared FT#1 and #2 with BK #1, as those are the most hard-hitting direct damage skills of both weapon sets.
The FT build was 4/6/0/4/0 without Juggernaut (Firearms VIII); 4 points in Explosives to maximize Power, and no Juggernaut as I assumed the party already provides 25 stacks of Might. The BK build was 6/6/0/2/0.
I assumed at most 3 foes, all constantly burning so FT #1 gets its 10% damage boost, and all foes stand in a line and close together so both the projectile and the explosion of FT #2 hits all of them.
Even under these circumstances which are perfect for Flamethrower the damage is only slightly higher than simply auto attacking with Bomb Kit. And I’ve yet considered the Vulnerability of Explosives 5.

In case it wasn’t clear:
My point is that even with the 33% damage buff Flamethrower #1 is still inferior to Grenade Kit #1 or Bomb Kit #1, don’t use it.

Never mind. I actually misread some of your post before I asked the question. I see what your saying now. Thanks for breaking it down even further though. I am sure the break down will be helpful to some folks.

i got the other issue.. i CANT flame anymore. As i started out i was flamer\eg exclusive and switched to bombs\eg cause my dps was so far in the ground that it actually started to affect the group. Dont get me wrong.. i enjoyed the flamer but now that this darn thing finally hits like a truck i cant get into it anymore XD

Basaltface.2786:

i got the other issue.. i CANT flame anymore. As i started out i was flamer\eg exclusive and switched to bombs\eg cause my dps was so far in the ground that it actually started to affect the group. Dont get me wrong.. i enjoyed the flamer but now that this darn thing finally hits like a truck i cant get into it anymore XD

That was kind of my story. Mostly lost all interest in the FT/EG combo back in that time when the destroyed kit refinement. I loved the AoE damage/condi clear of flame blast on the FT, and the AoE condition clear/heal of EGs super elixir when swapping to it. the support of the FT/EG comb back then was great.

dancingmonkey.4902:

Basaltface.2786:

i got the other issue.. i CANT flame anymore. As i started out i was flamer\eg exclusive and switched to bombs\eg cause my dps was so far in the ground that it actually started to affect the group. Dont get me wrong.. i enjoyed the flamer but now that this darn thing finally hits like a truck i cant get into it anymore XD

That was kind of my story. Mostly lost all interest in the FT/EG combo back in that time when the destroyed kit refinement. I loved the AoE damage/condi clear of flame blast on the FT, and the AoE condition clear/heal of EGs super elixir when swapping to it. the support of the FT/EG comb back then was great.

in my case its not the lost interrest, im just so used to running all about and jumping and rolling and what not all over the enemie and dropping bombs like a kid on a sugar rush, at the flamer you gotta stay somewhat still to aim the thing proper XD

Ameno.6813:

Rozbuska.5263:

FT in PvE is sign of bad engineer:-)

1. I don’t play PvE, this thread is more in regards to PvP where Juggernaut is a very worthwhile trait.
2. FT in it’s current state has it’s uses in all game modes, anybody who says otherwise is a bad engineer:-). Camping flamethrower on the other hand, is another subject entirely which is why I’m trying to discuss it here. If you have something to add to this conversation then please do so, otherwise keep your chide remarks to yourself as it adds absolutely nothing to this conversation it only makes your look like an kitten .

In WvW is FT very good especialy for tagging zergs:-P in PvP I dont know.. I tried it but Anet first remove Backdraft and now nerf Air Blast.. dps is maybe higher and blast finisher is nice but I imo its still not worth a slot. In PvE is damage still very low compare to bombs/nades and that new blast finisher works bad when you stacking in corner. If you have there FT as part of rotation with other kits it can be good but its better replace it by EG if you use FT as main source of dps you are bad engi:-)

Hello frands! Vee Wee here, #1 Engi NA and world first rank 80!

It’s a thilly thing to call someone a bad Engi for running what they enjoy playing in a game mode where you can literally run the worst build and still succeed! You can run 0 traits and still succeed! The pretentiousness is palpable! Someone actually called Vee Wee an intolerant elitist for disagreeing with “if you run ft u bad engi”! Crazy!

As for PvP, the FT still does pretty terrible damage! It’s also buggy with the camera and terrain and really weak to retaliation! In Vee Wee’s opinion, Juggernaut’s might stacking capability is more useful roaming from place to place and having a few stacks ready for a fight than actually sitting in Flamethrower during a fight! If you were to use Flamethrower, Vee Wee believes the ideal way to use it is to swap to it, maybe blast your fire field, use your knockback and then swap out to something else!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

ellesee.8297:

Hello frands! Vee Wee here, #1 Engi NA and world first rank 80!

It’s a thilly thing to call someone a bad Engi for running what they enjoy playing in a game mode where you can literally run the worst build and still succeed! You can run 0 traits and still succeed! The pretentiousness is palpable! Someone actually called Vee Wee an intolerant elitist for disagreeing with “if you run ft u bad engi”! Crazy!

As for PvP, the FT still does pretty terrible damage! It’s also buggy with the camera and terrain and really weak to retaliation! In Vee Wee’s opinion, Juggernaut’s might stacking capability is more useful roaming from place to place and having a few stacks ready for a fight than actually sitting in Flamethrower during a fight! If you were to use Flamethrower, Vee Wee believes the ideal way to use it is to swap to it, maybe blast your fire field, use your knockback and then swap out to something else!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

That’s pretty much what I’ve been doing before the patch. Just checking in to see if the AA buff warrants camping it. It’s not immediately evident how much damage your doing with FF compared to other weapons.

Ameno.6813:

ellesee.8297:

Hello frands! Vee Wee here, #1 Engi NA and world first rank 80!

It’s a thilly thing to call someone a bad Engi for running what they enjoy playing in a game mode where you can literally run the worst build and still succeed! You can run 0 traits and still succeed! The pretentiousness is palpable! Someone actually called Vee Wee an intolerant elitist for disagreeing with “if you run ft u bad engi”! Crazy!

As for PvP, the FT still does pretty terrible damage! It’s also buggy with the camera and terrain and really weak to retaliation! In Vee Wee’s opinion, Juggernaut’s might stacking capability is more useful roaming from place to place and having a few stacks ready for a fight than actually sitting in Flamethrower during a fight! If you were to use Flamethrower, Vee Wee believes the ideal way to use it is to swap to it, maybe blast your fire field, use your knockback and then swap out to something else!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

That’s pretty much what I’ve been doing before the patch. Just checking in to see if the AA buff warrants camping it. It’s not immediately evident how much damage your doing with FF compared to other weapons.

I’ve been running a Celestial FT build in PvP just for fun recently. Rifle/ft/tk/elixir s. It’s not the best, but with Strength runes and sigil of battle and strength, I can maintain around 20 stacks of Might. I do AA with FT, but the build revolves around it’s cc and burst skills. So I cycle through rifle, ft, and tk burst abilities throwing out cc as needed, then aa with ft while nothing else is available.

And if my oponent has retal, I either long range attack with rifle or melee with tk. I also tried this with zerker ammy and it works just as good. Gives you more damage, you just have to be better at postioning yourself and cc’ing your oponent at the right times.

ellesee.8297:

Hello frands! Vee Wee here, #1 Engi NA and world first rank 80!

It’s a thilly thing to call someone a bad Engi for running what they enjoy playing in a game mode where you can literally run the worst build and still succeed! You can run 0 traits and still succeed! The pretentiousness is palpable! Someone actually called Vee Wee an intolerant elitist for disagreeing with “if you run ft u bad engi”! Crazy!

As for PvP, the FT still does pretty terrible damage! It’s also buggy with the camera and terrain and really weak to retaliation! In Vee Wee’s opinion, Juggernaut’s might stacking capability is more useful roaming from place to place and having a few stacks ready for a fight than actually sitting in Flamethrower during a fight! If you were to use Flamethrower, Vee Wee believes the ideal way to use it is to swap to it, maybe blast your fire field, use your knockback and then swap out to something else!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

If you like your reputation you might want to actually tell the truth. The truth is that you tagged min-maxers as nerds, and more. Here’s the proof (can we see yours?):

Darius.4710:

ellesee.8297:

Hello frands! Vee Wee here, #1 Engi NA and world first rank 80!

Vee Wee agrees with you! But decent time is possible without going full minmax nerd mode! Vee Wee once did a Fractals 50 using a wrench build! Vee Wee completed this run in under an hour but most of all Vee Wee had fun! Or at least Vee Wee had the most amount of fun one can have playing the same instance that Vee Wee has already done over a 100 times before! Vee Wee advocates playing what you enjoy playing in a game mode where you can literally succeed playing the worst builds!

Vee Wee does not want to turn this into a PvP vs PvE but you have to admit PvE is really lackluster! It’s a shame because Vee Wee is not just a PvPer! Vee Wee likes to play all aspects of the game! But when high end PvE-ers resort to soloing the hardest dungeons for a challenge, then you know PvE difficulty is just pathetic and Anet needs to work harder to make it better goshdarn it! More dungeons! Maybe dungeons that require 10 people! Maybe hard mode versions of dungeons like in Guild Warts 1!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

Tagging people as “nerds” (“nerd mode”) because they don’t share the same values you do is rude and intolerant. Few people say each and every player must conform to the meta, no matter when and where. Meta teams expect this conformation in their teams, just like they need to conform when those Meta players join another team. Their team, their rules.

The average Joe has only average skill level, which makes the spec even more important. Some players are also not so skilled, making their spec even more important than before. Even when skilled, spec has it’s impact. Spec and skill are apples and oranges anyway. The fact skill matters doesn’t, by any mean, negate the fact that spec matters too.

---

The average Joe has limited time, and clearing time are greatly influenced by specs, especially on an average (or lower) skill level. People have jobs, lives, or want to help others as much as they can. For many players it’s even more fun like that. They’re anything but nerds for those reasons. This name calling only reflects on the person who’s doing that.

and this:

“ellesee.8297:
Hello frands! Vee Wee here, #1 Engi NA and world first rank 80!
Vee Wee doesn’t understand! Didn’t Vee Wee say Vee Wee advocates playing what you enjoy playing! How is that being intolerant! We have some PvE elitists saying a certain build is bad just because you’ll take 2 minutes longer to clear a dungeon if you run that build! And then they back it up with talk of spreadsheets and dps calculators and etc! If that’s not a min max nerdo then Vee Wee doesn’t know what is! That is also where the true intolerance is! Anyway again Vee Wee thinks people should play PvE how they want to play it! Whether it’s a thuper fun build like Flamethrower or some finely crafted build with the highest damage possible, play what you enjoy my frands!
Wahoo! Bye frands!"

You can easily see the terms “elitists” and “nerdo”, which is exactly what name calling is. All that was just because someone didn’t share the same values you do.