Guild Wars 2

I just did several extremely low populated spvp matches, with every time just 2 or 3 people in the whole game, both sides together. Sometimes we had 4 but that was rare.

1 of them was a mesmer and every time we faced each other, i fought his summoned ads more than him.
I could get him below 50% but by than I got slaughtered by the clones…

I have high armor, decent health and good damage.
You can’t dodge them forever, for that they attack with too many if you include the mesmer himself. Slowing them only goes so far.

I had no grenades or bombs equipped and I was wondering if aoe is the only way to survive such an encounter.

It got me thinking besides mesmers too: thief clones, necro zoo, basically every prof with a lot of helpers to summon.

How do you deal with that without bombs or grenades?

The mesmer beat me every time, while I read all the complaints they got nerfed.

I’m sure I’m missing something here.
But wihtout very strong aoe, all my defenses count for absolutely nothing here.

my defensive stats: 2.770 armor
22.833 health

Using a shield, famethrower, elixir gun, tool kit
More tricks than I can imagine, yet nothing to save me from summoned npc’s…

With the overnerfed pistols and rifle being more a CC than a damage tool, one of the damage oriented kits is pretty much a must have unless you’re running with people you know all the time, in which case you can go full out support of course.

My issue isn’t so much that I can’t damage the player, but more that i can’t survive the summoned adds of all sorts.

Mesmer phantasms hit extremely hard.

So my defenses seem useless, my cc is useless, so I only see the option of maybe aoe’ing them.

That’s why I ask, not for the pue damage, but for the simple fact I can’t win against a prof with adds if I don’t have very strong aoe.

I might be wrong here, but I can’t see how I could have beaten that mesmer as long as his phantasms basically ignored all my healing and defenses and just dps’ed me down.

The illusions/phantasms have extremely low health pools,and now have had their recast time increased. kill them,and you got yourself a dead mesmer. Mes is my main.

Personally, a good way to counter a lack of AoE is to have exlirs. Having two elxirs (such as the rage, retaliation, and might one coupled with swiftness) and using rifles 5th skill (the rifle jump) works really well at dealing with groups of enemys (especially illusions/phantams since they are always crowded toghether).

Sorry about not saying the actual elixr names, i cant remeber them at the moment.

Does the rifle skill 5 damage on takeoff or upon landing?

jerryfingers.6273:

Does the rifle skill 5 damage on takeoff or upon landing?

Both, actually if I recall correctly.

To answer this question simply: Yes.

But to answer if fully, we need a better understanding of what you as an Engineer use for a build.

The thing with Mesmers is they’re quite a squishy class. Whenever you can do damage to them, they usually take a lot. I’ve downed some mesmers in mere seconds using my condition P/P build.
The simpliest way is to pay attention to the mesmer, not your hotbars. Watch each clone and observe the way it attacks and the way it moves and understand that mesmer clones cannot move in ways that a player can.
A clone does not roll, a clone does not move backwards, a clone does not strafe. For the most part a clone will stand still and attack, or a clone will run toward you.
It’s also pretty easy to see where a mesmer moved to upon summoning a clone to replace it if you pay close enough attention. Sometimes rendering issues can get in the way, but for the most part it’s simple to see.

Also, never focus attention on a player’s adds. Never target the pet, never target the minions, never target the clones. Once the player goes down, the adds are worthless.

Ranger pets and Necro minions are pretty easy to kite, their AI is like mobs in PvE. Just run circles around them while focusing the player. I love fighting players with minions, it means my static shot can do more damage to them by bouncing.

condition pistol is pretty good if you can keep track of where the mesmer is moving

@ Ashes: Very good advice on the movement of clones, thanks for that.
I do realise focusing on the adds of a player is usually not a good strategy, but in this case I just didn’t survive them.

Mesmers seem to be pretty good at ranged just by themselves, which is annoying if you’re swarmed with the clones. Well: they manage to stay at range good enough so far.
My usual fight against them end in me being kited by the Mesmer while being eaten by the clones. I guess that’s how the mesmer should do it, so I’m indeed for ways of changing my playstyle against them.

Very often if I cc the mesmer and got to him, I cc’ed myself by standing still too… and the clones got to me

My guess was that I was doing it wrong and should have killed the clones first, but maybe that’s not a good option either from what I read.

I’ll try to get the clones of me, with knockbacks and the like, and try to slow the mesmer and do as much damage to him as I can I guess.

small note: I played a hunter in WoW for 8 years I guess, so I have a good notion of the balance between pet and player, and what hurts him and what not.
Whoever targeted my pet in WoW, died pretty soon after.
But mesmers sort of feel like the OP Beastmaster hunters in WoW right now: the pet (or adds) do so much damage you can’t ignore them fully either…

I find a ranger pet immensely weaker than a mesmers clones, so the comparison there doesn’t work.

On my build as engineer, or how I percieve my role in a group:

the example i gave were from battles where it was just us 3 or 4 all the time, so anything else than burst had little to no use.

And no: I wasn’t burst build…
I’m more support but with a strong bite still, and close to bunker survival.

I don’t think it was my build failing so much. As I said: I got them below 50% as it was.
I truely believe I either missed the aoe of bombs or grenades, and also: I didn’t know how to fight them yet. That last bit is of course crucial in such a 1v1 situation.

The title refers to the most important question: regardless of a fixed role (it’s spvp not tpvp after all), can an engineer survive without bombs or grenades?
I see very few without either of these…

Sometimes it really annoy me. I guess I should’ve realized that Engineer is modeled quite a bit after the TF2 Engy (less the hard hat..I WANT MY HARD HAT ANET!), which is basically camp an area, and hold the position. That’s kinda nifty. I like being the support player, but it’s a real pain in the rear when I have to solo sometimes.

I’ve been finding that the flamethrower is proving to be a fairly decent counter to mesmer clones. Not only is the AoE fairly reliable but you’ll remove the threat of a clone spam fairly quickly and catch the mesmer themselves. Currently I’m using a 0/30/20/20/0 build. Pretty much a standard FT/EG build but gives me plenty of survivability against the mesmer and their clones.

As much as I’d like to use Grenades and Bombs, I find they were just dealing with the clones while the mesmer was moving out of range and beaming me to death. At least with the FT I can either beat the mesmer or at least remove the clone threat for long enough to force the mesmer to retreat.

blurps.2340:

and rifle being more a CC than a damage tool,

I hit for 2K+ with my rifle’s hip shot alone. Add in elixir U and utility goggles and within 5 seconds my target is usually dead.

BTW, blunderbuss hits for 6K+.

I have no kits equipped.

Malhavoc Adhamar.3675:

I’ve been finding that the flamethrower is proving to be a fairly decent counter to mesmer clones. Not only is the AoE fairly reliable but you’ll remove the threat of a clone spam fairly quickly and catch the mesmer themselves. Currently I’m using a 0/30/20/20/0 build. Pretty much a standard FT/EG build but gives me plenty of survivability against the mesmer and their clones.

As much as I’d like to use Grenades and Bombs, I find they were just dealing with the clones while the mesmer was moving out of range and beaming me to death. At least with the FT I can either beat the mesmer or at least remove the clone threat for long enough to force the mesmer to retreat.

I was using the flamethrower as well, amongst other kits. But I wasn’t doing it right.
Your post, as well as several other reactions here are showing me more and better options to use the skills at my disposal.

I’m trying to do it all without bombs or grenades first, moslty focusing on playing better next time.

The reason for this thread is parlty answered so far: it seems there are indeed engineers handeling the same situations without grenades or bombs. So at least I’m learning something here, usefull for my own build(s).

Thanks for that, to all the replies so far.

With the overnerfed pistols and rifle being more a CC tool than damage

The hell?? That made me laugh so hard i promptly began rubbing my rifle.

OP sounds like you’re getting owned by Blurred Frenzy? You must practice on noticing the real mesmer then knowing the reaction when he stealths: dodge. Often they will follow up with a MOA or a Blurred Frenzy (which makes them immune to damage when they finally appear trolol).

You should have plenty defense with shield and tool kit right? You can use those to nullify the somewhat obvious damage attempts that a mesmer does. And i assume you have Kit Refinement as well? I’d seriously hammer that ToolKit, keeping nails up everywhere will affect him even when he stealths, as well as all their phantasms. Pre-emptive jumpbacks are awesome too.

Also flamethrower and elixir gun should be nice right. FT along with maybe pistol 3 to get the clones down, Fumigate to get the poison on as he gets low and tries to heal/stealth. When you are confident you have the real one then use some mobility skill towards him if needed, knockback him with one of your many options, and dump all conditions into him. You must have some sort of pressure/punishment in your build or he will simply wear you down. I guess you can put fairly nice CC chains on him.
I think your Toolkit Pull is really usefull against them as well. Pull em into Nails, quick Toolkit #3 then start your chain. You should have nice confuses at least, and lots of aoe dmg with FT and EG. The real one will probably dodge out of those quickly. You can use them, circle around, and see where he is by looking at the numbers as well! If numbers start appearing in thin air, there’s your man ; )

If its the conditions that kill you, you should be good with an elixir gun and kit refinement. You can also get the healing turret which removes all conditions. Basically make him fear coming out of stealth by immediatly stunning him a few times and blowing most of your stuff, then reverting to defensive play when it is his turn to attack or you are getting swarmed by minions. Just using elixir 4 smartly can mitigate a lot of damage while giving you time to heal up, seeing as your free spammable Box of Nails is now slowing everything.

GankSinatra.2653

insert lots of tips.

Thanks for that.
Will add it to my list of practice idea’s.

Oh, and hurray for someone finally saying the tool kit is usefull

Usual set up:

6: med pack
7: Flamethrower
8: Rifle Turret
9: Rocket Turret
0: Either Wolf, Bear, or Emergency Supplies (rarely anymore)

Use my rifle, and I do just fine in PvE. WvW, I do jsut fine as well.

2k+? and 6k+ blunder seriously you think thats a lot?

Thanks to all who have posted here! I’ve not yet leaped into PVP yet, I’m trying to take my time and really “own” my various skills first so that I don’t end up completely sucking. Reading exchanges like this is also an enormous help in prepping for PVP fun.

Just wondering … would a flame/rocket turret help mitigate the Player Pet problem? I guess I’m just wondering if player adds will focus on the turret while you go after the live player (as often happens in PVE), or are clones & pets in PVP “smarter” than that?

P. S. I can see where the OP was coming from, as I feel a little squishy as an Engineer; trying to figure out a combo “tanky” + good damage build, if such a beast exists …

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcEQJAqalspSXHvSfF17IBoH6Nv8V0jHDZk/pAbB;TsAg1Cqo8xAjAGrXOfkeNq4UxsCA

Good Night. Best Build an engi can use in pvp.

edit: for some reason you have to copy and paste the link for it to work…

jamasont.4653:

2k+? and 6k+ blunder seriously you think thats a lot?

2K per ranged auto attack? Yes, that’s a TON for ranged… not to mention that he didn’t say crit…

@OP, there’s some serious flaws in your story… i play a mesmer quite a bit (Well did, my engie is taking up all my time nowadays xD) but clones do 0 damage, they WILL apply conditions though, but damage wise they don’t do any (unless the condition is like burning or bleed or w/e), phantasms on the other hand will completely man handle you if you leave them standing…

A good tip for mesmers is the second they throw down a PHANTASM kill it, don’t let it get its attack off more then once or you’ll be a dead engie soon, if you can keep him down to 1-0 phantasms then most mesmer builds wont be able to hurt you that well (quite a few rely on phantasms) however, ignore the clones unless you’re using AoE, sure they die in like 2 shots if the mes is a glass canon, but if that mes is like my mes then the enemy will spend almost as long as killing the clone then they would focusing on me, and then the clone will just be shattered anyway completely wasting your efforts…

I personally don’t use either of those 2 kits but i have no problems killing mesmers… my problem is with thieves, they dodge and evade so much, and then i have my settings graphically set to like nothing, which i hear leads to issues seeing people when they come out of stealth so that probably plays a factor too..

mifbifgiggle.6713:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcEQJAqalspSXHvSfF17IBoH6Nv8V0jHDZk/pAbB;TsAg1Cqo8xAjAGrXOfkeNq4UxsCA

Good Night. Best Build an engi can use in pvp.

edit: for some reason you have to copy and paste the link for it to work…

That a bit of an inaccurate and subjective statement. It perhaps could be one of the best condition damage/buffer builds. Other then that there are significantly better builds to fill various roles.

I found targeting the mesmer works the best, assuming you can get the jump on or start the fight on even ground before he gets clones up, put a target above the mesmers head, then just hit the target, works well for me.

As an Engineer and Mesmer player I can honestly say that a good Engineer without grenades or bombs can hold their own.

I do extremely well with solely a p/p elixir build.

However if you face those types of Mesmer’s that heavily rely on clones/phantasms to confuse you then you have to get good at spotting the real one and mow him/her down fast.

Works every time.