Guild Wars 2

Fair call.

The skill is basically useless as we are downed nearly as long as the enemy and when we do get back up they are often out of range anyway.

The skill does cure cripple/imob/chill though, which is only helpful 1v1 with the self CC but still…

Just to be clear your gripe is with the knockdown effect of Overcharge and not the move-back part, correct?

Several classes have skills that move the away from the target, but I think the engi is the only one that has to stand up afterwards. I think he is also the only one that has strong damage and a strong knockback/down (for the enemy) attached to it.
Other classes get minor damage and a short cripple or swiftness with theirs.

It would be great of overcharge gave me control as soon as I stopped moving, but it might be a balance thing.

There is probably some blanching issue given the fact it’s ranged, has the shortest CD of any launch on any weapon set, and it cures movement impairments. I wouldn’t mind losing the knockback, but not at the expense of anything else it does. Honestly I just use Net Shot right after and toss nades or Jump Shot. Half the time I just want to get a little distance between me and the other player and that works just fine. The way I see it as is you have decent interrupt on short CD that allows you to keep at range and remove some conditions.

I am fine with the self-knockdown. It is good compromise between risk and reward. But the skill’s range is pathetic compared point black shot (ranger long bow #4):

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Overcharged_Shot
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Point_Blank_Shot

Both have 15 second cooldown.
Overcharged shot (engi rifle #4) has 400 range (500 traited), self-knockdown, 450 launch
Point Black Shot (ranger LB #4) has 900 range (1125 traited), 400-600 knockback, no self-knockdown

The engineer’s overcharged shot should have at least 500 range if not traited and 800 range with the rifled barrels trait.

But rifle #3, blunderbuss, is an even bigger problem. Maximum damage at 100!! (less than melee range). When is this gonna get fixed?!?

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blunderbuss

Deniara Devious.3948:

But rifle #3, blunderbuss, is an even bigger problem. Maximum damage at 100!! (less than melee range). When is this gonna get fixed?!?

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blunderbuss

There is nothing to fix in regard to this skill. It is literally a melee skill and 100 isn’t exactly correct as the skill is an aoe cone so along as the enemy get hit by all of it the damage counts. If you have not noticed rifle is a control set that literally punishes the enemy for getting into melee range. The right combo with rifle could literally burst some players down.

As far as the ranger’s PBS. I understand your complaint but there is a difference between a Knockback, a knockdown, and a launch. Of the 3 the launch takes the longest to recover from with knockback being the shortest. In terms of control the launch is simply the most powerful. Let say if you got hit by all 3 at different times. The KB would be the easiest as there is no “get up” animation. The KD has longer animation actually forcing you to get up off the ground. The launch can not even be broken until you finish moving through the air and find yourself on the floor. Many players blow their stun break due to not understating this mechanic.

Launch != knockback, keep that in mind. Launch keeps the opponents disabled for longer, and if they’re too quick with their stun breaker it won’t work since it doesn’t work during the bouncing.

Overcharged shot is also instant cast, meaning it can’t be interrupted. It also removes any movement impairments, which can be a real life saver (the shorter knock down vs. a 4 second immobilize would generally be better). Additionally, it does not require a target, meaning it can be used on stealth opponents (i.e. hitting thief out of refuge) and requires less precision than something like point blank shot.

The basic things to do after landing an overcharged shot is to close in with jump shot or hit them with net shot so they can’t move after they get up.

Also, the knockback can be overcome in a few ways. If you have stability, you won’t get knocked back at all. A quick and easy way to get it is with the thumper turret tool belt skill, although then you have to take thumper turret. But if an ally gives it to you then you’re set. Stun breaks will also get you out of the self-knockback.

You might think it sounds silly to use a stun break here, but if it allows you to apply significantly more damage on the opponent, then it’s probably a good thing. In particular, utility goggles work quite well for this. After hitting with overcharge shot, immediately pop the goggles, and now you have fury and blind immunity to burst down the launched opponent.

More to the point, you can’t simply compare 1 weapon ability to another weapon ability from different professions (i.e. overcharged shot vs. point blank shot) since they both exist in different contexts.

Suggesting a 1000 range, instant cast launch that requires no target and cures movement impairing abilities is a bit over the top though.

overcharge shot is one of the best skills in the entire game. Asking for more than what it already gives is kinda crazy.

The self-CC is to reduce its potency as a CC in 1v1s. In a team fight it becomes better because as you’re CCed for almost a full second your teammates can go ham on a target that’s CC’d for 3.

It also puts some risk in dishing out CC because if it gets dodged/reflected you’re in a worse situation than if you just didn’t pop it.

It’s an interesting skill and I can see why some people would find it frustrating. When you hit a CC skill you certainly don’t expect to get CC’d yourself.

Trust me though, it’s EXTREMELY strong and I would honestly argue overpowered if it weren’t for the fact that rifle engis in SPvP are sub-par in most situations anyways.

I always use it to get distance between my target and myself. It perfect if a warrior is about to burst down upon you. Just use overcharged shot and then net shot, to shut him down completely.

What you want with overcharged shot is a launch (= knockdown), which is instant, creates a huge distance between you and your target on an insane range and no CC for yourself. In 1v1 there is absolutely no drawback in using overcharged shot, since you stand up faster then your target, even if he uses a stun break due to the launch animation. The only thing where overcharged shot might be tricky, is during a 1vX, but at the same time can be used to create some quick distance between you and your opponents and gives you time to run away. So, simply speaking, what you are asking is way too much!

And believe me, Anet didn’t put it in just because they thought “it would look cool”. Sorry, but that’s just stupid.

Overcharged Shot is the shortest cooldown Launch in the game. It has a good range, puts plenty of distance between you and your target, and can be used for emergencies to knock you out of red circles.

There has to be a drawback somewhere.

P.S. Cures movement impairing effects as well.

How would they nerf OS? Remove the movement impairing removal? Make it a knockdown instead of a launch? Make it do no damage? I’d rather have the small self-CC. OS is perfect now as it is, don’t spoil it for other Engineers by putting it under the nose of Anet. There is NOTHING wrong with OS!

People? That implies multiple persons. The only one I see talking negative about OS, and not seeing the multiple positive sides of it, in this topic is you.

EDIT: Oops, excuse me, Deniara supports your cause.

Sure, if they get rid of the self CC and don’t nerf the skill, I’m fine with it. Why wouldn’t I be? But in my opinion the skill isn’t broken and is perfectly balanced the way it is.

And also, this is a forum, right? It’s meant for discussions. I have a different opinion then yours, aren’t I allowed to share my opinion with you? Or is this a topic that is forbidden for people who don’t see anything wrong with the self CC?

Most iritated is that immobilize remover on OS. You remove one and get another..

Reason I don’t like Engineer is all the self-cc and unreliable attacks that usually put me in more danger then my enemy.

Its ok on bandit NPCs.. but not players no thanks.

bulent.7391:

Viparix.8476:

Sure, if they get rid of the self CC and don’t nerf the skill, I’m fine with it. Why wouldn’t I be? But in my opinion the skill isn’t broken and is perfectly balanced the way it is.

And also, this is a forum, right? It’s meant for discussions. I have a different opinion then yours, aren’t I allowed to share my opinion with you? Or is this a topic that is forbidden for people who don’t see anything wrong with the self CC?

I didn’t say skill is broken. Broken means it is not working. It is working perfectly as how it is designed. Topic says can we get rid off self cc. pretty clear. means: please remove self cc. I don’t want to loose control of my character cus of my own skill. concept is pretty clear.

topic cannot be forbidden for anybody, I am repeadetly stating that you are wasting your time and energy on something that is completely fine for you.

Try this perspective:

Overcharged Shot does no more to lose control of your character than many other skills. Other skills have a cast time, which makes it impossible to cast anything in the mean time – OS is quite lacking a cast time for what it does (launch is arguable the best CC in GW2), so think of the self KB as a cast time shifted to the time after the skill was executed. It also affects movement, but so do certain skills of most classes:
Think of ele’s meteor shower, churning earth, fiery GS, war’s hundred blades, staggering blow, kill shot, ranger’s barrage, whirling defense, guard’s ring of warding, thief’s pistol whip and mesmer’s blurred frenzy. They all are situational and powerful, just like OS, but hindering you in your gameplay/movement as a tradeoff.

It’s essentially the same problem as with overcharged shot, with overcharged having quite a advantage: you get the full effect of your skill before you pay for it, making the skill hard to counter/to dodge – honestly, you shouldn’t complain about that. Plus you can cancel / prevent the “shifted cast time” with a stunbreak/stability.

Be glad you have this skill. Learn to use it (really). If it’s more of a impairment for you than for you enemy, you are doing it wrong.

Would be fine if they added it as part of the Rifle damage trait. Would make the trait that much more appealing. I would also be fine if they just gave us a reliable source of stability to counter us CCing ourselves.

Daecollo.9578:

Reason I don’t like Engineer is all the self-cc and unreliable attacks that usually put me in more danger then my enemy.

Its ok on bandit NPCs.. but not players no thanks.

Just wondering! how many self cc skills do we have in total ? :|

I agree with the OP. Many abilities that are more powerful than overcharge shot don’t give other professions a self-cc.

If this kind of balancing is required then Necros should self destruct after 5 seconds.

I hate overcharged shot, and only use it for the interrupt.

Overcharged shot is a very good skill. Like Ostrich said, the self knockback is to tone it down for 1v1s. Without it, it would without a doubt be overpowered. That’s part of the reason why using a stunbreak on the knockback can be worthwhile. You should get about two free seconds on your target. However, this isn’t the case every time.

I made a post awhile back about Elixir F being bugged following a stun-broken Overcharged Shot. The best time to use such slow moving, CC’ing abilities should be when they’re immobilized or knocked down. Instead, you almost always miss and I often end up eating the self-knockback (even though I have two stunbreaks) because I know it won’t hit.

Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENPFS7VseDE

Also, if it’s a knockback on ourselves, why doesn’t Protection Injection trigger? This would give us the option of traiting for a way to reduce screwing ourselves over in team fights by using it.

Overall, a great skill with some minor bugs that would improve usability if fixed.

To be fair, it makes sense in that case since it’s use to get distance.

google.3709:

Daecollo.9578:

Reason I don’t like Engineer is all the self-cc and unreliable attacks that usually put me in more danger then my enemy.

Its ok on bandit NPCs.. but not players no thanks.

Just wondering! how many self cc skills do we have in total ? :|

Just the one. Over exaggeration akittens finest.

I like Overcharged Shot. As I mentioned earlier, it’s useful for knocking yourself out of red circles for emergencies. I always get up quicker than my opponent which makes it a handy 1v1 skill. It also cures all movement impairing effect which is awesome. AND AGAIN, shortest cooldown in the game for a Launch (Second best hard CC, behind Fear). Not to mention that no opponent can predict it because it’s an instant move.

Really, Overcharged Shot is fine as is. If they were to tone down other aspects of it (Range, Damage, Casting Time, CC Removal, 12 second Recast traited) in exchange for the self-knockdown, I wouldn’t be happy about it personally.

Edit: Apparently, you cannot put the word at and the word its next to each other because when you do you get a female body part.

What Aristio said basically. The skill is mighty fine.

I never claimed overcharged shot is a bad skill. It is one of my favorite rifle skills, together with jump shot and I do not mind the self CC. But its range and the range for some other rifle skills should be increased more with the rifled barrel traits. Currently the trait increases the range by very small amounts.

For some reason Arenanet doesn’t seem to want engineer to be a long range fighter e.g. changes to grenade kit, increase the spread so that only 1-2 grenades hit from long range and the underwater spread is even worse (plus some harpoon gun stuff doesn’t even hit I should make a BUG report about it. I found repeatable bug concerning harpoon gun #1). Real life damage output for engineer at this very close to medium increases dramatically compared to long range. Yet, engineer is a medium armor profession with no access to shadow stepping, extremely limited access to stability and aegis, limited access to stealth and so on. Thus we should sort of fight in the melee + medium range, yet don’t have the tools for that in large scale organized combat. I mean organized guild groups in WvWvW (not your average random PuG zergs). The meta is extremely melee heavy (plus necros on the rise). Tons of hammer warriors synced and backed up by guardians, eles, necros and few mesmers. There is so much AoE CC that without stability you will die literally in 1-2 seconds.

I really don’t have much interest in spvp/tpvp as it is conquest mode only. I am sick and tired to see this game balanced only based on that unpopular game mode, which around 1% of those who bought GW2 play. Telling how some skill is overpowered in contesting a small circle really doesn’t correlate well with the rest of the game.

Well, my experience is mostly from WvWvW and WvWvW surely is much more popular game mode than pvp. According to my observations:

1. Engineer is the rarest profession in WvWvW
2. > 90% of engineers (in WvWvW) use pistol/pistol or pistol/shield, less than 10% use rifle

Does that sort of imply that rifle is the godmode weapon for WvWvW? It sorts of spells the opposite.

I urge the developers start to balance the game also for WvWvW.

Warriors and guardians were already the king of WvWvW meta since Autumn 2013. Buffing them for that game mode was just beyond any reason. Rifle engineers are rare as hen’s teeth on organized top guild teams. Despite that I spent most of my WvWvW roaming solo, I see 10x more rifle warriors than I see engineers. And 100x more rifle warriors than rifle engineers.

Deniara Devious.3948:

2. > 90% of engineers use pistol/pistol or pistol/shield, less than 10% use rifle

I am pretty sure that’s a gross exaggeration. I’ll agree that Rifle needs some tuning, but that’s a baseless thing to say.

rifle is so good in wvw >.>

every once in a while i switch to p/p or p/s for a couple days… and rediscover the joy of rifle afterwards.

I only use P/P in condition-heavy builds, and even there I switch to Rifle frequently for the extra movement and control.

If we’re talking about just removing the self-cc, I’m all for it.

But if it means nerfing OS so we can have the self-cc removed, no thanks

The problem with removing the self CC is that you basically have battering ram on a rifle now. So if you remove that component, you need to alter it further to make it more unique compared to br. (Which I’m ok with as I also hate the self cc)

Ele gives himself a cooldown under water with a rock pull-thing I don’t care about and Necro conditions himself all the time.

Deniara Devious.3948:

I am fine with the self-knockdown. It is good compromise between risk and reward. But the skill’s range is pathetic compared point black shot (ranger long bow #4):

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Overcharged_Shot
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Point_Blank_Shot

Both have 15 second cooldown.
Overcharged shot (engi rifle #4) has 400 range (500 traited), self-knockdown, 450 launch
Point Black Shot (ranger LB #4) has 900 range (1125 traited), 400-600 knockback, no self-knockdown

The engineer’s overcharged shot should have at least 500 range if not traited and 800 range with the rifled barrels trait.

But rifle #3, blunderbuss, is an even bigger problem. Maximum damage at 100!! (less than melee range). When is this gonna get fixed?!?

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blunderbuss

Apples to Orange.

Engineer rifle has way too many utility. Net shot to immobilize, Overcharge to knockback, Jump shot to escape or charge in.

Ranger Longbow is all about damage, with only PBS, and a unreliable cripple that one can avoid easily.

Engineer Rifle is just useful at close range and mid range while longbow is only useful at long range. Rangers are free lunch when you get close in, while Engineers are still deadly at close range.

Overcharged shot is balanced.

Anyone every play rifle and nades. Leearn it love it and youll get why OS is so good.

bulent.7391:

You can’t escape with Jump Shot since it is interruptable, stopable completely open to any impairing effect( you travel less on chil, travel none on immobil etc) so you can’t escape anywhere with that. If you can escape with jump shot, you could with just walking too.

True ooc but not true in combat (in reference to travel time compared to walking). Not going to go into it but if you know what you are doing you are using JS for terrain.

Jump shot travels same distance with just runing also any delay on casting may cause you travel less in combat.

You can’t escape with Jump Shot since it is interruptable, stopable completely open to any impairing effect( you travel less on chil, travel none on immobil etc) so you can’t escape anywhere with that. If you can escape with jump shot, you could with just walking too.

Chill, immobilization, cripple, interrupt effects all leaps, jump shot is not singled out. Longbow doesn’t even have a mobility skill. Some mobility is better than no mobility.

Also you can charge with it yea. Do your jump of death (if you don’t get knocked down at mid-air)into your enemies to get slammed with your undefeatable medium armor. unless you didn’t give up on your offensive armor and 30 offensive trait points on defensive ones just to die 2 seconds later and hit 500 auto attack as a result.

(I love jump shot also I don’t have any problems with Ranger’s getting better)

When jump shot leaps on a foe, it does HUGE damage. 5000 damage when landing on a foe vs. 1000 damage to get out. 6000 damage when used on where you are standing on.

bulent.7391:

Also you can charge with it yea. Do your jump of death (if you don’t get knocked down at mid-air)into your enemies to get slammed with your undefeatable medium armor.

Right, just like D/D Eles never engage anything in close range, because they are Light Armor class…. oh, wait.

Armor type of the class doesnt really matter, Engineer can survive in melee way better than most classes and it has nothing to do with his armor.

runeblade.7514:

Engineer rifle has way too many utility. Net shot to immobilize, Overcharge to knockback, Jump shot to escape or charge in.

Ranger Longbow is all about damage, with only PBS, and a unreliable cripple that one can avoid easily.

No doubt rifle has utility. But you intentionally didn’t want to mention ranger’s longbow’s most powerful utility skill: hunter’s shot
It gives ranger 3 s stealth, 10 s swiftness to pet and is a combo finisher with mere 12 s cooldown (9.6 s cooldown with quick draw trait). Stealth around 30% of uptime is incredibly powerful without the need of using any utility skills slots or traits or combos.

Ranger’s longbow does clearly more damage at 1000+ range than rifle does, when the characters have equal stats / gear. Long range shot, ranger LB #1, from 1000-1800 range has damage multiplier of 0.9. While hip shot, engi rifle #1, from 0-1000 (1200 traited) range has damage multiplier of 0.65.

Engineer’s rifle #2, net shot, is very easy to kite (no need for dodging) at long range. So maybe also call it useless, like you just said barrage is unreliable cripple.

Long bow is also the furthest reaching weapon in the game. Just like some elementalist staff skills it hits much further than the tool tip range (in fact elementalist staff, which says 1200 can reach further than grandmaster grenadier engineer with 1500 range, tested yesterday in WvWvW). The real range of ranger’s long bow with eagle eyes trait is around 1800.

Note: you get pet damage + utility on top of that!

If you claim that ranger is useless at close range, why not swap to another weapon, which is good at short range e.g. greatsword or sword/dagger combo. The former has amazing mobility as well (swoop moves 1100 forward, on a short cooldown)

I also got a level 80 ranger. Done personal story with it and big part of world completion.

Ranger’s doesn’t knock down the target tho, or deal as much damage.