Cele engineer in WvW

Cele engineer in WvW

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Posted by: scorekeeper.6524

scorekeeper.6524

Is celestial engineer not really a thing anymore? If not, why?

Cele engineer in WvW

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Posted by: santenal.1054

santenal.1054

Strong celestial builds still exist in WVW, but most people just choose to play pure power (hammer) or pure condi (p/p).

By celestial engineer you don’t only mean those old (outdated) rifle/grenade builds right? Grenades aren’t popular anymore and it probably has to do with a single boon (resistance) that can render all it’s utilities useless, reflections countering all it’s attacks, retal procing with every grenade that hits , every utility cleansable by the ever increasing amount of condi cleanses, “grenadier” trait being mandatory,… Not having a blast field anymore or a combo finisher doesn’t do the kit any good either.

(edited by santenal.1054)

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Posted by: scorekeeper.6524

scorekeeper.6524

I’m referring to the old p/s and rifle builds with healing turret/rocket boots/bombkit/toolkit, no grenades.

I’m trying to decide if I should break the bank and get trailblazer gear or save that for another class and just go rabid or celestial on my engi. Dire, for me, doesn’t cut it in WvW. I already have a knights/zerker engi that uses either hammer or rifle.

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Posted by: Nirvana.8659

Nirvana.8659

No,celestial is not a thing anymore.
Rifle can provide only some bleed at the best.
Like Santenal already explained you,the amount of condi cleanse on every class , and the presence of resistence on others , just makes celestial pointless.
Celestial rifle provides too few condis , even if coupled with kits, engineer is too slow at apply conditions, and using a rifle the condis at your disposal are too few.
Plus, all the cripple and immobilize are completely useless against other roaming classes like warriors or thieves.
It can only disturb some Mesmer and power revenant.

Also, peoples tend to full condi with pistol pistol cause it puts a lot more pressure.
But even there , you have not the condi pressure of a Necro , a condi Mesmer,a condi thief , just because they are a lot faster when applying condis OR they are more evasive and hard to counter WHILE putting condis.

But..We are top tier condi damage on an immobile dummie for benchmarks , if that can make you happy and forget about the rest.

If you are not full time engineer , and you have the desire to improve some other class you play , I’d suggest you to invest into another class and just use your old condi gears on your engy without wasting gold on this class if you are not 100% sure of what you are doing.

I apologize for my english.
Engineer : Charliengine
Engineer : Brother Thompson

(edited by Nirvana.8659)

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Posted by: scorekeeper.6524

scorekeeper.6524

If you are not full time engineer , and you have the desire to improve some other class you play , I’d suggest you to invest into another class and just use your old condi gears on your engy without wasting gold on this class if you are not 100% sure of what you are doing.

I understand that maybe my post might make it seem like I am new to the class. I assure I am not, engineer was my first class, first level 80, all the storylines are done with that character- I am well versed in the class. I have my ascended vipers and zerker sets. I even crafted a set of exotic minstrels. I have leadership runes. I have both HOPE and The Predator. I think my commitment to the class is evident. I do play my thief to keep things fresh, but I consider my engineers (yah I have more than one) to be my main class.

I no longer really care about PvE or sPvP anymore, I consider WvW to be my endgame ganemode, so I am more than willing to spend the gold to experiment. I already stated that I plan on making a set of trailblazers, which is not cheap. I ask the collective knowledge of fellow engineers about celestial since I’ve never made that type of set before, and heard about the nerfs to celestial, so I wondered if people were still playing that type of build.

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Posted by: insanemaniac.2456

insanemaniac.2456

cele isnt a thing any more.

specializations moved IP to firearms, which means a cele build has to take both explosives and firearms to get its damage, but the problem with that is that you cant give up either alchemy or tools/inventions in a pvp setting. so cele builds got torn apart partially by that. the rest of the tearing is due to elite specs power creeping the hell out of everything, so in a pvp setting its hard to justify not taking scrapper because it simply brings so much, both damage and defense, and both at the same time, where everything a cele engi did was either damage or defense. but scrapper is essentially a power only line and brings basically no condi damage. additionally, hot also brought us marauder stats (and crusader, minstrel, vigilant, commander, etc), which all complement a power based hammer build. hot stats have a bigger budget, so the more of them that you use the more you can simply muscle out other builds that are based on older power levels purely with stats.

…so there you have it. splitting celes damage to 2 specs and power creeping the hell out of elite specs killed cele.

i suggest not making trailblazer for engi. thief, necro, ranger, warrior, mesmer, and even revenant now. but not engi. condi engi is still fairly reliant on crit for IP procs to really get enough damage out to kill, and that requires around 25% base crit rate to be reliable, and while mixing say… trailblazer armor/weapons + rabid trinkets is fun and generally effective, doing the same on any of those other 6 classes would get you more mileage and you wouldnt even be forced into building some crit in.

i havent particularly looked into updating my opinion for the last couple of patches though for several reasons. first, not much is really changing with regards to condi engi, but i admit that the flamethrower 2 and 3 changes could do tons of work to make condi engi do more with less. second, condi thief takes that trailblazer gear and barfs out aids puddles literally without needing a 2nd weapon set and you can kill experienced people np. third, another expansion looms. fourth, condi engi is pretty weak to condis — forced into firearms, and out of either alchemy or tools/inventions/scrapper makes for a bad case of 4 move slot syndrome (to take a phrase from pokemon). ill keep watching the patch notes though.

JQ: Rikkity
head here to discuss wvw without fear of infractions

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Posted by: scorekeeper.6524

scorekeeper.6524

cele isnt a thing any more.

specializations moved IP to firearms, which means a cele build has to take both explosives and firearms to get its damage, but the problem with that is that you cant give up either alchemy or tools/inventions in a pvp setting. so cele builds got torn apart partially by that. the rest of the tearing is due to elite specs power creeping the hell out of everything, so in a pvp setting its hard to justify not taking scrapper because it simply brings so much, both damage and defense, and both at the same time, where everything a cele engi did was either damage or defense. but scrapper is essentially a power only line and brings basically no condi damage. additionally, hot also brought us marauder stats (and crusader, minstrel, vigilant, commander, etc), which all complement a power based hammer build. hot stats have a bigger budget, so the more of them that you use the more you can simply muscle out other builds that are based on older power levels purely with stats.

…so there you have it. splitting celes damage to 2 specs and power creeping the hell out of elite specs killed cele.

i suggest not making trailblazer for engi. thief, necro, ranger, warrior, mesmer, and even revenant now. but not engi. condi engi is still fairly reliant on crit for IP procs to really get enough damage out to kill, and that requires around 25% base crit rate to be reliable, and while mixing say… trailblazer armor/weapons + rabid trinkets is fun and generally effective, doing the same on any of those other 6 classes would get you more mileage and you wouldnt even be forced into building some crit in.

i havent particularly looked into updating my opinion for the last couple of patches though for several reasons. first, not much is really changing with regards to condi engi, but i admit that the flamethrower 2 and 3 changes could do tons of work to make condi engi do more with less. second, condi thief takes that trailblazer gear and barfs out aids puddles literally without needing a 2nd weapon set and you can kill experienced people np. third, another expansion looms. fourth, condi engi is pretty weak to condis — forced into firearms, and out of either alchemy or tools/inventions/scrapper makes for a bad case of 4 move slot syndrome (to take a phrase from pokemon). ill keep watching the patch notes though.

Makes sense. I did notice the lack of precision on trailblazers. I haven’t crafted a thing yet, and it’s purely superfluous as I have the “meta” gear already, but it is in the back of my mind as something I’d try, someday, even if it’s on another class. Heck I’m even looking at vigilant armor and wondering “what if”. I just roamed around HoD BL with dire gear, rabid p/s and dire/rabid trinkets tonight and it seemed doable. Just something to break up the monotony of using rifle+elixirs or zerging with hammer.

Really sad about celestial though :/ Watching older videos, seemed like a fun build. I might just do it for kicks anyway

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Posted by: coro.3176

coro.3176

Condi builds – the ones that are viable now (thief, mesmer, necro) – all have one thing in common: They kitten out condi indiscriminately and constantly. They get in combat, do their thing, and watch everyone around them drop.

Targeted condi application (ranger, engineer, warrior) tends to be more of a skill-matchup in that you’re harrassing your your opponent trying to force them to use their clears + resistance at the wrong time, then follow up with condi burst once those are on cooldown.

Because the former are so prevalent and so effective, the latter are forced to play very heavy condi-burst to make the most of those gaps in condi clear. Thus, cele doesn’t work as well as it used to. Most opponents’ builds pack enough condi clear to negate half your damage without breaking a sweat.

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Posted by: alifesoft.9634

alifesoft.9634

Cele Engi is excellent in WvW because you have all usable stats (p/p/f/v/t/hp) even condi in power build with firearms traits. But I run in WvW with Cele armor, Cele trinkets and Zerk hammer. It is possible change hammer to double Sinister’s pistols if you want more condi.

(edited by alifesoft.9634)

Cele engineer in WvW

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Posted by: scorekeeper.6524

scorekeeper.6524

Cele Engi is excellent in WvW because you have all usable stats (p/p/f/v/t/hp) even condi in power build with firearms traits. But I run in WvW with Cele armor, Cele trinkets and Zerk hammer. It is possible change hammer to double Sinister’s pistols if you want more condi.

That’s encouraging! As I said, watching older videos, the build seemed legit but I know that cele got nerfed a few times and I haven’t seen too many current builds out there. Glad to bear it works for you!

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Posted by: Dawdler.8521

Dawdler.8521

Engineer is probably the class that can make the most of cele after ele but IMO its fairly pointless today. As other mentions, you need to go condi if you want to compete with the condi meta and you need to go marauder or similar if you want to have the oomph to beat the power meta. HoT turned up the extremes in both areas to the max.

Plus, celestial gear is timegated and can be like 90% emulated by comboing gear.

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Posted by: insanemaniac.2456

insanemaniac.2456

you can dodge that time gate with wintersday gifts, but it takes quite a few to rack up enough charged quartz

JQ: Rikkity
head here to discuss wvw without fear of infractions

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Posted by: Mea.5491

Mea.5491

Everything is a “thing” if you enjoy it! I play CelEngi in WvW and PvE and I have tons of fun with my build. Too bad they removed the Cele medal from PvP.

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Posted by: Phineas Poe.3018

Phineas Poe.3018

I no longer really care about PvE or sPvP anymore, I consider WvW to be my endgame ganemode, so I am more than willing to spend the gold to experiment. I already stated that I plan on making a set of trailblazers, which is not cheap. I ask the collective knowledge of fellow engineers about celestial since I’ve never made that type of set before, and heard about the nerfs to celestial, so I wondered if people were still playing that type of build.

Celestial is perfectly viable while roaming, but I find full Marauder or Wanderer/Minstrel mix to be far more effective in zergs.

[EG] Ethereal Guardians

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Posted by: alifesoft.9634

alifesoft.9634

>>That’s encouraging! As I said, watching older videos, the build seemed legit but I know that cele got nerfed a few times

One thing where Cele don’t work it is Raids. However you can use Cele armor with condi or power weapons and trinkets. It gives the power/condi build as special exotic + some free tanky stats (200 to toughness, healing power and health). It can helps slightly with a ping 180, as I have.

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Posted by: PierPiero.9142

PierPiero.9142

cele with condi ? is not better a mix of rabid/dire ?

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Posted by: alifesoft.9634

alifesoft.9634

cele with condi ? is not better a mix of rabid/dire ?

Cele gives you also power, precision and ferocity. So you have direct damage and condi damage with tanky abilities. In HoT area this is excellent, you can fight in a front without dying.