Guild Wars 2

Repost from the PvP subforum:
This thread looks interesting, at least it’s the first time that someone suggests reasonable changes, instead of plain nerfs.
Some ideas already mentioned that would be awesome:

- switch elixir infused bombs with experimental turrets.
As Arrdee pointed out (and others previously in the engi-subforum) this would add great synergy to the alchemy trait-line and reduce the insane trait-stacking one can achieve for turrets. You wanna have increased dmg/range OR refection-bubbles OR ticking buffs to support you/allies? sure, choose freely.

-spawn turrets where the cast was started.
This will fix the current placement-exploits possible with turrets, while still maintaining the option to perform the healing-turret combo with swiftness while keep running, so a fix that would not hurt all the engi specs relying on healing turret as heal.
Appart from that, yes relying too much on AI is a issue, but one you face on many specs from various classes. But fixing it for turrets is iffy since their intended design is to deny an area properly (and recently also to deliver support for allies within their range).
So I’d change the traits as following:

- Accelerant Packed Turrets
turrets self-destruct with a turret specific effect when blown up:
flame turret: blows up in a combustion, dealing minor damage and applying burn to enemies for 3 seconds in 300 range
net-turret (also for its underwater version): releases ripped-apart nets, applying cripple to enemies for 5 seconds in 300 range
rocket-turret (also for its underwater version): releases a big explosion, dealing medium damage to enemies in 300 range
rifle-turret (also for its underwater version): releases a load of shrapnel, that applies 5 stacks of vulnerability for 5 seconds and deals minor damage to enemies in 300 range
thumper-turret: releases a shock-wave that launches enemies 300 away in a 300 range.
healing turret: releases a healing-wave that clears 1 condition and heals allies for 1k
Additionally turrets will count as blast-finisher upon violent destruction, not only on the self-destruct.
(It maybe sounds like a buff at first, but the rather powerful ones actually belong to turrets who go on a 50sec cd upon destruction, and the fact that all these melee-interrupts are gone should balance this change to the current version quite nicely.)

-Metal Plating :
renamed to “Reactive plating”
turrets receive 50% less damage while being overcharged
(l like the idea that the overcharge is protecting them, but this in turn should actually increase the traits’ effectiveness)

-Auto-tool installation:
turrets regenerate 100 health per 3 seconds for allies. The effect can stack with itself and the regeneration-boon.
(instead of 1-uping the tankiness of the turret itself, they now support their owner and allies around them with direct heal. since turrets will not auto-heal anymore that also punishes the playstyle of “place and forget”)

-Rifled Turret Barrels:
Increases turret damage by 15% and range by 20%
(I think choosing to increase the turrets plain dps is a valid decision one should be able to make, but the current range-increase is simply too insane. Allowing the rifle and rocket-turret to hit on 1.2k instead of 1.5k is a reasonable-enough nerf since that is also the range increase one could get for the rifle itself when traited. Now rangers and nade-engis both are able to out-range turrets and therefore forcing the owning engi to actively react to the situation, further punishing to leave turrets completely unattended.)

- Experimental Turrets
remains as is, but switches places with elixir-infused bombs
(since it’s not in the boon-duration line anymore I guess it’s toned down reasonably enough. It is still a grandmaster-trait, that one would need to sacrifice bubbles or dmg/range for.)

- Deployable Turrets:
Renamed to “Tele-Turrets”
Overcharging a turret teleports it straight to the engi’s current position.
(Overcharges are insta-casts, so that would actually add nice active play to the thumper f.e., which would deliver the knockback always under the engi’s feet, even if he happens to be stun-locked, without the need to blow it up to access the actual stun-breaker from its toolbelt ability. Further, insta-casts usually can’t be performed mid-air, so this trait would also get rid of turrets being thrown high into walls, like in khylo clock-tower f.e. Additionally this would increase the mobility of turrets since one can re-arrange their position without needing to blow them up first. Since supply-crate turrets can’t be overcharged this won’t affect the elite-skill, and is also a limited option, since usually a overcharge-cd is 30sec. Spaming all overcharges just creats a pile of junk, perfect to be bursted by aoe, so the increased mobility gets balanced by the fact that one can not simply panic-spam all the overcharges without punishment.)
______
Discuss

I think this went from tweak turrets to complete overhaul real fast. Besides, I get the feeling turrets are getting some updates come HoT anyways. The tweaks up top make sense, the rest of the proposed changes, no thanks.

Arantheal.7396:

-spawn turrets where the cast was started.

something like this absolutely needs to happen. im gonna go out on a limb and speak for everyone and say no one wants to fight against turrets in the kittening air and everyone who sees this thinks its broken or exploitative.

i cant stress enough how annoying it is.

How about turrets duration reduced to 20-30s, and have recharge start as soon as they are placed down

Losing Positional advantage which is the annoying thing Vs Giving them some mobility.

Alot easier to AoE, and mobility buff would benefit PvE/WvW.

Arantheal.7396:

- switch elixir infused bombs with experimental turrets.
As Arrdee pointed out …

-spawn turrets where the cast was started.
This will fix the current placement-exploits possible with turrets, while still maintaining the option to perform the healing-turret combo with swiftness while keep running, so a fix that would not hurt all the engi specs relying on healing turret as heal.

I’m pretty sure that moving Elixir Infused Bombs to alchemy would destroy a lot of ‘barely viable’ Engi frontline WvW builds. Understandably people don’t use EIB in PvP , so this might have been overlooked.

Dropping the turret at the position that the cast started sounds like a decent idea. However if this stops an Engi from being able to drop, overcharge and then pick up the heal turret whilst running with swiftness, it would be a pretty significant nerf.
If the purpose of this change is to stop air-turrets, it would be better if the turret was simply spawned on the nearest ground at the end of the cast.

UntimelyM.7860:

If the purpose of this change is to stop air-turrets, it would be better if the turret was simply spawned on the nearest ground at the end of the cast.

that would be a terrible change, not because of the idea itself, but because the game handles “ground” as something really strange.
F.e. meteor shower bolts can only spawn above valid play-positions, which you can exploit heavily in small chokes and next to cliffs, since the number of projectiles in total stays the same, but they spawn more crowded.
But invalid positions are also small slopes or really narrow ledges (f.e. ruins / tunnels), so requiring healing turrets to spawn on the next valid ground will often enough port them far away from your actual position, maybe even out of the 480 range for healing burst and the blast.
This would destroy the healing-turret as valid heal in PvP/WvW.

Fixing the air-turret bug is fine and all. The accelerant-packed one can be interesting as well.
But most of those suggestions end up being plain nerfs, especially when taking all those suggestions together. And they wouldn’t make the playstyle more active either – just nerfing it heavily.
First of all, switching elixir-infused bombs with experimental turrets would make both traits unaffected by their new trait lines, thus indirectly nerfing both of them.
If you want to remove the possibility to stack grandmaster turret traits, they could as well delete some entirely and and replace them with some toolbelt or gadget trait instead, since we haven’t got many of those.
The change to metal plating would be a major nerf. 50% reduction during overcharges is nothing compared to the 33% constant one of the current trait. Also, it would be useless versus opponents outranging the turrets (wasting an overcharge to get a couple seconds of reduced damage is counterproductive to say the least).
About autotool installation…like above, this is yet another change aimed to make them less sturdy. And making them sturdier is the whole point of the trait. Want to change it to something more active? Make it heal the turret for a certain amount (something like 33%, considering the current values on the trait and the average overcharges cooldown) when using an overcharge. While healing and using overcharges are both situational actions, they usually occur amidst a fight (especially if you’re overcharging a turret that is currently targeted). Thus it shouldn’t pose issues on that regard.
Doing so would limit the healing capabilities during a fight, and the attacker would be free to burst them during the interval from an overcharge and another. Also, unattended turrets wouldn’t heal by themselves.
About rifled turret barrels…the point of that trait is to make the long-range turrets not outrangeable, since they can’t move closer to the opponents to retaliate. So you suggest to change it…to make them outranged even with the trait. What’s the point of it, then? You say that the engineer would be forced to react? Oh, sure, let’s just leave all the turrets behind and come there with just a rifle. That will surely work well…for the opponent, at least.
Come on, it wouldn’t make sense. And it wouldn’t even deserve a grandmaster slot anymore, imho.
That deployable turret trait change, imho, wouldn’t work in practice. You’ve basically plastered together two highly situational, different functions – moving them, and using their overcharges. Sure, it may work with the close range ones, but why should i even want to move a rocket turret or rifle turret in my current position if i want to use the overcharge – they’re supposed to work at a certain range to avoid being mauled all together, after all.
Imho, it would just end up unused.
If we want to give some limited mobility – as turrets, they aren’t even supposed to move, after all – what about making tool kit’s magnet work on your own turrets with an highly reduced cooldown (like, 6s).

The point is to rework turrets for more active play.
They are meant to be out-ranged since turreteers actually leave their turrets completely alone, caping map objectives, just to come back on the node and find a dead thief within them. while the theif itself might be a n00b, this build is rewarding a too careless playstyle, therefore a bad brother of a class that actually requires high apm and proper map-awareness to be used effectively.

Turrets are not meant to be sturdy, they are there to deny the area as long as they are up. You are not meant to run only turrets, because even with the suggested tele-turret trait, running full turrets would really hurt yourself in terms of mobility.

The thing is what you perceive as a nerf is actually a buff to active playstyle.
These new traits would make the rocket-turret way more survivable.
the following situation:
khylo clock-tower
a warri with stability enters the room, rushing for your rocket-turret, which is placed outside the node, next to the wall. with the current traits you have no options of counter-play, your rocket-turret goes down and you eventually as well since your pressure is gone and he covers the node with hammer-cc’s.

now imagine you run fortified turrets, tele-turrets and reactive plating:
you jump off the node, leaving your rocket-turret alone, since getting a gentle hammering while he has stability is a bad idea. You run for the crates, jump up to the window, run down the balcony and while he still is at the rocket-turret, you trigger its overcharge, teleporting it to your position, up in the window where he can’t reach it with hammer anymore. He then switches to bow, but since your turret got deployed there, fortified turret triggers and you get the bubble, while also firing the overcharge from a now safe distant.
maybe it just takes away a stack of stability, but you can run back to the node, deny him the cap (he propably had enough time to decap if you have not spotted him early enough when entering clock-tower), but his initial rush to the rocket-turret failed so you still have the dps-backup from it so you can outlast him.
and after 20 seconds you still have the option to jump off the node for a sec, trigger the overcharge again to call the rocket-turret in while he has stability on cd and get the knockdown off on him.
the turn of the coin is that your turrets are not that sturdy anymore, but against melee’s you now have indeed powerful means of counter-play, rewarding a more skillful use of turrets, therefore punishing brainless pug-farmers and giving them more versatility for experienced engineers.
turrets would actually become very efficient by just picking the trait accelerant packed turrets and tele-turrets, since it’s not mandatory anymore to go full in inventions to make them viable, allowing turrets to be used more effective in various actually potent builds.

Yes, these changes are a big nerf to brainless afkers on a node, but for those who play the engi as inteded (always on his toes, dropping chaos where he can) this is actually a great improvmeent of life and would make turrets way more akin to the class itself.

turreteers as they are currently are not engineers.
they don’t have any active sustain, have no mobility, and have a very, very low skill-cap that does not go beyond basic positioning. This is why turreteers are so in-effective in a match full of skilled players.
If you like simple games, play dungeon defenders or LoL / dota 2. But Gw2 is meant to reward a active, fast-paced play-style. In that regard turrets are a big hindrance to the class, limiting new layers more than helping them to become better.

Still, your idea of healing turrets for a certain amount on overcharge is actually a nice idea for auto-tool installation, coming with great synergy to what I’d like the changes to be.

also, since I’ve reached post limit in the last one, one more point I’d like to discuss:
elixir infused bombs < – > experimental turrets (in the current trait environment)
as it is currently experimental turrets forces turreteers to go full into alchemy, and while the boon duration itself is nice for the trait, these are 6 points into a line that brings not much synergy with the turreteer.
elixir Infused bombs surprisingly has the same issue in the inventions line. A bomb-build merely profits from any trait in the inventions line, but by switching the traits you get this:
turreteers now have 6 points free that they don’t need to drop into alchemy anymore, so they could buff their rifle via fire-arms, or get explosive powder which not only buffs the rocket-turret directly (the +10% dmg is actually stacking with the +15% dmg from rifle barreled turrets), but also each explosion from blown up turrets, and maybe even pick deployable turrets. They also could choose to get infused precision with invigorating speed f.e…

now bomb-builds on the other hand would receive a decent buff as well.
since most go 6/x/0/4/2 anyways, they now finally have the valid option to drop the remaining 2 into alchemy and run bomb-heals, on a build that is not mutilated and has picked all the important traits you need for staying highly mobile.
Yes, one could argue that you also have power-shoes in the inventions-trait line, but that is no real mobility, just movement speed. for melee-brawling you need the vigor from invigorating speed + speedy kits, else your build will heavily under-perform.

so yea, while elixir infused bombs would trade synergy to the healing-power from inventions, and experimental turrets would loose the automatic boon-duration, both traits suddenly can be used in way more powerful builds since both builds in question suddenly have 6 points to play around with, which is a lot.

Arantheal.7396:

The point is to rework turrets for more active play.

And your suggestions did nothing about that. Adding separate effect to overcharges doesn’t make them more active, it just makes them bloated with different effects. Making them less sturdy doesn’t make them more active, it just makes them less sturdy.

They are meant to be out-ranged since turreteers actually leave their turrets completely alone, caping map objectives, just to come back on the node and find a dead thief within them. while the theif itself might be a n00b, this build is rewarding a too careless playstyle, therefore a bad brother of a class that actually requires high apm and proper map-awareness to be used effectively.

If they can cap a target without their utilities, good for them. It means they aren’t that braindead after all. Leaving turrets at home is a liability for the engineer as well – he’s more than halving his potential by doing so (since he can’t even properly use the overcharges if he doesn’t know what’s going on). And it is supposed to work like that…since they’re turrets.
Also, if someone can’t even deal with some unmanned turrets, well, that’s just his fault and his alone.

Arantheal.7396:

Turrets are not meant to be sturdy, they are there to deny the area as long as they are up. You are not meant to run only turrets, because even with the suggested tele-turret trait, running full turrets would really hurt yourself in terms of mobility.

Well, they’re turrets. They aren’t supposed to be mobile. And since they can’t move, they just have to tank whatever hits them (and retaliate, when they can). Also, unlike other minions, their cooldowns start after their death – if they weren’t tanky enough to survive some beating, they wouldn’t be worthwhile at all, since they would be on cooldown most of the time.
So…yeah, they’re meant to be sturdy, else they wouldn’t work, at least in their current design.

Arantheal.7396:

The thing is what you perceive as a nerf is actually a buff to active playstyle.
These new traits would make the rocket-turret way more survivable.
the following situation:
khylo clock-tower
a warri with stability enters the room, rushing for your rocket-turret, which is placed outside the node, next to the wall. with the current traits you have no options of counter-play, your rocket-turret goes down and you eventually as well since your pressure is gone and he covers the node with hammer-cc’s.

now imagine you run fortified turrets, tele-turrets and reactive plating:
you jump off the node, leaving your rocket-turret alone, since getting a gentle hammering while he has stability is a bad idea. You run for the crates, jump up to the window, run down the balcony and while he still is at the rocket-turret, you trigger its overcharge, teleporting it to your position, up in the window where he can’t reach it with hammer anymore. He then switches to bow, but since your turret got deployed there, fortified turret triggers and you get the bubble, while also firing the overcharge from a now safe distant.
maybe it just takes away a stack of stability, but you can run back to the node, deny him the cap (he propably had enough time to decap if you have not spotted him early enough when entering clock-tower), but his initial rush to the rocket-turret failed so you still have the dps-backup from it so you can outlast him.
and after 20 seconds you still have the option to jump off the node for a sec, trigger the overcharge again to call the rocket-turret in while he has stability on cd and get the knockdown off on him.

So you ran away instead of actually fighting the enemy on point just to put the rocket turret somewhere else, where he’s likely to hit it anyway assuming he isn’t stupid enough to not notice the fortified turret’s bubble, and assuming he won’t kill it in the meantime (or that he doesn’t kill it later – cause if it is fast enough for you to put the turret there, it will be fast for him to go there as well). And that’s assuming he just makes you run away at your leisure and does all according to your expectations.
And that’s the favorable example you chose, heh.
Most of the times people would just be costrained to either use the overcharge but end up with a turret in an unfavorable place, or to try not using the overcharge at all to avoid the issue.
As i said before, they’re too situational to be put together in the same plate.

Arantheal.7396:

the turn of the coin is that your turrets are not that sturdy anymore, but against melee’s you now have indeed powerful means of counter-play, rewarding a more skillful use of turrets, therefore punishing brainless pug-farmers and giving them more versatility for experienced engineers.

Where by “counter-play” you mean “run away leaving the point uncontested and hope the enemy won’t be able to finish the turret from a distance when i’ll have teleported it after it has been beaten during all that time”. Surely that will work well. Especially versus enemies that can outrange them. Or people that can just shadowstep or blink to it.

Arantheal.7396:

turrets would actually become very efficient by just picking the trait accelerant packed turrets and tele-turrets, since it’s not mandatory anymore to go full in inventions to make them viable, allowing turrets to be used more effective in various actually potent builds.

Very efficent? Hah, nice joke.
With your changes, turrets wouldn’t even be as sturdy as before, they would be easily outranged and they would have no means of self-heal, making them much easier to kill.
And if you get that tele-turret trait, you aren’t even able to use the overcharge freely – the enemy can just pummel the turret to death after that. Along with the user, eventually – since they’re both there. And that’s even if he’s been hit with a CC, as long as he has a stunbreak ready.
The only change that we would see is for them to not be used at all, apart for the healing turret.

Arantheal.7396:

Yes, these changes are a big nerf to brainless afkers on a node, but for those who play the engi as inteded (always on his toes, dropping chaos where he can) this is actually a great improvmeent of life and would make turrets way more akin to the class itself.

That’s your definition of engineer, not the developers’ one.
The engi “as intended” can take control of an area by placing turrets. At least, the page of the profession on the official site says so.

Masters of mechanical mayhem, engineers love to tinker with explosives, elixirs, and all manner of hazardous gadgets. They can take control of an area by placing turrets, support their allies with alchemic weaponry, or lay waste to foes with a wide array of mines, bombs, and grenades.

Arantheal.7396:

turreteers as they are currently are not engineers.
they don’t have any active sustain, have no mobility, and have a very, very low skill-cap that does not go beyond basic positioning. This is why turreteers are so in-effective in a match full of skilled players.
If you like simple games, play dungeon defenders or LoL / dota 2. But Gw2 is meant to reward a active, fast-paced play-style. In that regard turrets are a big hindrance to the class, limiting new layers more than helping them to become better.

As i’ve written above, devs don’t seem to agree with your definition of engineers.
Anyway, your suggestions do nothing to solve those issues, apart from making turrets weaker as a whole and clunky to use (with that tele-trait). They would just end up being useless.
If you want to change the playstyle, you won’t achieve that by weakening some traits here and there. You have to overhaul turrets as a whole. Good luck with that – i can’t think of any feasible solution to the slew of issues that come on with changing how they work.

Arantheal.7396:

Still, your idea of healing turrets for a certain amount on overcharge is actually a nice idea for auto-tool installation, coming with great synergy to what I’d like the changes to be.

Because i just took whatever the trait did and put it in a way that was active, but didn’t harm the functionality of the skills affected. Cause while they’re both situational, they usually share the same situations of use. Unlike the tele-turret trait you suggest, that would just end up as the next kit refinement, whose use is far too much situational compared to how kits are usually used.

Arantheal.7396:

also, since I’ve reached post limit in the last one, one more point I’d like to discuss:
elixir infused bombs < – > experimental turrets (in the current trait environment)
as it is currently experimental turrets forces turreteers to go full into alchemy, and while the boon duration itself is nice for the trait, these are 6 points into a line that brings not much synergy with the turreteer.

That line doesn’t bring synergy with anything that isn’t an elixir, to put it bluntly. Apart from a couple master traits, anything else is either some general defensive buff or is elixir-related.
Turreteers will just get some general defensive buff – they can make good use of it either way, since turrets as they are now are mostly about sustained damage, thus the engineer has to stay alive long enough as well.
Or they can just avoid that line and take something else – if they want to take some different buffs, it’s their choice.

Arantheal.7396:

elixir Infused bombs surprisingly has the same issue in the inventions line. A bomb-build merely profits from any trait in the inventions line, but by switching the traits you get this:
turreteers now have 6 points free that they don’t need to drop into alchemy anymore, so they could buff their rifle via fire-arms, or get explosive powder which not only buffs the rocket-turret directly (the +10% dmg is actually stacking with the +15% dmg from rifle barreled turrets), but also each explosion from blown up turrets, and maybe even pick deployable turrets. They also could choose to get infused precision with invigorating speed f.e…

A bomb build that uses elixir-infused bombs benefits quite a bit from traits on invention line, if only for automated medical response alone (and performance enhancement if you plan on going cleric – and with elixir-infused bomb, you are likely to do so). As a close range fighter, protective shield also helps, and if you may want to eventually get reinforced shield as well for extra utility if you use shields as well.

Arantheal.7396:

now bomb-builds on the other hand would receive a decent buff as well.
since most go 6/x/0/4/2 anyways, they now finally have the valid option to drop the remaining 2 into alchemy and run bomb-heals, on a build that is not mutilated and has picked all the important traits you need for staying highly mobile.
Yes, one could argue that you also have power-shoes in the inventions-trait line, but that is no real mobility, just movement speed. for melee-brawling you need the vigor from invigorating speed + speedy kits, else your build will heavily under-perform.

It seems to me that you’re forcefully mashing together two different bomb builds for the sake of your argument. As i said above, a bomb build that actually aims to get elixir-infused bombs isn’t mutilated at all by that choice. It probably won’t even use the same gear and stats as the other build you’ve described. They’re just different builds.

Arantheal.7396:

so yea, while elixir infused bombs would trade synergy to the healing-power from inventions, and experimental turrets would loose the automatic boon-duration, both traits suddenly can be used in way more powerful builds since both builds in question suddenly have 6 points to play around with, which is a lot.

An elixir-infused bomb build would have worked better on the invention tree to start with, for the reasons i explained above. Another bomb build could as well avoid to take the trait entirely – it serves a different purpose.
Likewise, saying that a turret build has now 6 free points is misleading – you are just unable to take two grandmaster turret traits and thus you’re forced to take something else. You can already do that, if you aren’t interested in the experimental turrets.
And they aren’t necessarily more powerful either – cause either turrets or the user ends up weaker by the lack of the second turret-related grandmaster trait.
That’s what you’re aiming for, anyway, so nothing surprising here.

Your facerol build will get nerfed soon, don’t worry. The amount of turrets engis in PvP is higher than all other 7 classes stacked together. Arenanet said they will fix the brain dead AI in few patches.

glock.6590:

Arenanet said they will fix the brain dead AI in few patches.

where/when?

glock.6590:

Your facerol build will get nerfed soon, don’t worry. The amount of turrets engis in PvP is higher than all other 7 classes stacked together. Arenanet said they will fix the brain dead AI in few patches.

I don’t usually use turrets, outside of the healing one and supply drop.
And i stopped playing pvp some time ago, anyway. Also, i still think that one of the major issues are the braindead players, rather than the braindead AI – a lot of players are just terrible, but don’t want to realize it or improve themselves – usually they are the ones that come on the forum and whine upon anything that defeated them.
I don’t think i’m that good as a player either, but at least i’m aware of my own mediocrity.

Anyway, if they can fix the “braindead” AI, that’s good. Turrets could use a more active playstyle – i just don’t think these suggestions can give them one. Making them paper mache isn’t a solution, unless they plan on redesigning them completely; and neither would make them inherently more active.
The problem is about how you can have a full turret build, with a single main weapon, and still have active plays while the turrets are down, assuming that they won’t change some fundamental designs about them (like being immobile, relatively sturdy, and have their cooldown start after their death). Also, they would still have to work with the limitations of the command inputs – as now, we have at most two buttons per turret, one of which is used to destroy them.
The only way i can see, with these premises, would be to rework the overcharge system, along with shifting some power from the turret autoattacks to overcharges (not too much, though, else they become too bursty). Maybe multiple tiers of overcharges? Overcharges would work akin to chain skills as far as inputs go, assuming you’ve got the energy costs to pay for them, and there would be clear tells to understand what overcharge tier is being shot right now (albeit, unlike actual chain skills, it would only use one overcharge at a time). Tier 1 would just be a stronger autoattack with a relatively short cooldown, whereas tier 2 would be the current overcharge. In doing so, the autoattacks’ importance would be diminished, whereas the relevant attacks become more clear (and thus are more avoidable if ones wishes so).
If we want to do things more complex, turrets could have some kind of energy system. Like, they start with X energy when they’re put down, enough for a tier 2 overcharge. Turrets gain Y energy every Z seconds, and overcharges have different energy costs based on the tiers but also have lower cooldowns, thus leaving more micromanagement to the player’s hand. In doing so, there may even be a tier 3 overcharge with high energy costs, so that it needs some build-up time before it can be used after the turret has been put down (like, at least 15s, for example).
Turrets’ energy could then be displayed above each turret’s icon on the skill bar, as a sort-of boon when clicking on turrets, or may even be displayed as graphical changes on the turrets themselves (they could shift to a different model once they have enough energy to use an higher tier of overcharges).