Guild Wars 2

Elixir X is a super useful elite that can become more of a hindrance rather than a threatening experience. This is many because how sustainable other classes are now a days and the RNG aspect of you becoming a Tornado or Juggernaut. Some match ups, Tornado is pretty useless and you just ended up wasting an Elite Skill that (by default) lasts 15s and has a 105s cooldown…and just removes a whopping 1 condition.

Plus these forms aren’t even exclusive to Engi. All of it is shared with other classes. Make them feel unique.

Both Forms – Reduce condition duration and/or condition damage (while Rampage does reduce Damage…this doesn’t reduce Condition Damage). The Elixir can be either used as an escape or to survive a bit longer…but just removing one condition over X many more and still being able to get hit by them is hardly threatening (especially if you are a tornado…you should be less susceptible to conditions if you are blowing everything out of the way (or so you’d hoped).

Tornado:

• Skills should be unblockable also
• Skills should be able to be combo’d together. You are a tornado, a cow and a boulder could come flying at you at the same time…but not this tornado, you must wait until the boulder goes first.
• Dust Charge – Should have a longer travel range, stopping either the target selected collision or hitting that range. Enables Engi’s more mobility when running builds that don’t have that much mobility.

Rampage (Juggernaut):

• Auto Attack – Faster. You only have 15s. Think “Hulk Smash”
• Number of Targets – All increased to 5 from 3.
• Shorter Cooldown
• Dash – Longer travel range. Enables Engi’s more mobility when running builds that don’t have that much mobility.

Toss Elixir X – Engi’s “moa”

• Should effect 5 targets
• 4 second morph time (still under Mesmer’s Signet of Humility)
• Doesn’t remove Conditions…It should, it’s considered an Elixir.
• Engi’s Moas should turn players into looking like the Twisted Watchwork Moa
• Reduce Cooldown to match Elixir X (Reduced to 105 from 120)

I disagree. Wearing a Marauder amulet, a Tornado proc of Elixir X can literally wipe teams with proper positioning and timing.

I don’t think it needs to be touched at all. Elite skills is the one area where engineer is absolutely stacked. While most classes are left with only one real choice, the Mortar Kit, Elixir X, and Sneak Gyro are all quite dominant at what they’re designed to do.

Phineas Poe.3018:

I disagree. Wearing a Marauder amulet, a Tornado proc of Elixir X can literally wipe teams with proper positioning and timing.

I don’t think it needs to be touched at all. Elite skills is the one area where engineer is absolutely stacked. While most classes are left with only one real choice, the Mortar Kit, Elixir X, and Sneak Gyro are all quite dominant at what they’re designed to do.

Running Marauder in this meta is such a risky move…especially when the biggest benefit is an elite that is based on RNG, timing, and positioning. Couple that with the limited time you have and its cooldown?

You’d feel more confident running different runes, sigils, or amulets if, at least, your elite can be more effective without needing those things (like almost every other meta elite other classes have).

The RNG option of Elixir X over Gyro or Mortar would actually be quite the handicap. Not saying all these suggestions are perfect but an RNG Elite that also depends on “timing” should at least be comparable to the non RNG elites that can completely turn a fight around (like other classes have).

Its the RNG of this skill that really makes or breaks it. And the suggestions really don’t add anything to make these options OP (just makes them more reliable). Least make the options worthy.

Sure there isn’t RNG with Tossing the Elixir, but you are only hitting a max of 3 targets and for less time than the cooldown + cast-time can justify. Signet of Humility (Mesmer) is 6s, .25s more casttime, 60s more cooldown…but has a pretty useful Passive. in case you don’t have the opportune time to cast it.

I’m not against leaving Elixir X alone, but given the meta, it’s pretty outdated.

LUST.7241:

Running Marauder in this meta is such a risky move…especially when the biggest benefit is an elite that is based on RNG, timing, and positioning. Couple that with the limited time you have and it’s cooldown?

Risky or not, I’m just making the argument that Elixir X with a damage amulet absolutely trashes people. It doesn’t need a buff.

Phineas Poe.3018:

LUST.7241:

Running Marauder in this meta is such a risky move…especially when the biggest benefit is an elite that is based on RNG, timing, and positioning. Couple that with the limited time you have and its cooldown?

Risky or not, I’m just making the argument that Elixir X with a damage amulet absolutely trashes people. It doesn’t need a buff.

The majority of the suggestion doesn’t even bother addressing damage. I’m talking about the consistency of the utility of the skill.

If the only option is to run a damage amulet to make it effective…for at least 15s…at a very specific place and time…every 105s (by default)…That’s a problem plus makes you a handicap to your team if you are just a one-trick-pony. Damage isn’t the the only reason or way Elixir X is used. As a utility skill, to really support your team with it (which isn’t just glass cannon damage), it falls short of what it can do for your team and really make Engis keep up with the current state of the overall meta.

These “buffs” don’t necessarily mean everything else stays the same…because everything won’t stay the same in PvP. Engi might be a stable pick now…but one change to any class can completely change everything. The whole current “bunker” meta will get nerfed.

LUST.7241:

The majority of the suggestion doesn’t even bother addressing damage. I’m talking about the consistency of the utility of the skill.

These were your proposed changes to Juggernaut:

LUST.7241:

Auto Attack – Faster. You only have 15s. Think “Hulk Smash”
Number of Targets – All increased to 5 from 3.
Shorter Cooldown
Dash – Longer travel range. Enables Engi’s more mobility when running builds that don’t have that much mobility.

Every single thing you suggested is a buff to its damage. Better cleave, faster auto-attack, shorter CDs, and better mobility. None of these are necessary. You can already 1v2 a lot of match-ups with Juggernaut when running Marauder.

LUST.7241:

If the only option is to run a damage amulet to make it effective…for at least 15s…at a very specific place and time…every 105s (by default)…That’s a problem plus makes you a handicap to your team if you are just a one-trick-pony.

It’s a transformation skill. I’m not sure what you’re really expecting, or that you should be expecting more than we’re currently getting from it. It will always only be good at a very specific place and time—and only when you’re actually running a damage amulet will it actually be threatening.

LUST.7241:

Damage isn’t the the only reason or way Elixir X is used. As a utility skill, to really support your team with it (which isn’t just glass cannon damage), it falls short of what it can do for your team and really make Engis keep up with the current state of the overall meta.

Maybe pre-Heart of Thorns we took it for reasons other than damage, but what “support” does it give compared to other options we have currently? Mortar Kit gives you a heal/water field, access to frost armor/chill, blind, and poison. Sneak Gyro gives you stability and stealth. Nothing Elixir X has compares to them.

It’s a damage elite, and it should only be used as such.

I always thought Elixir X could be something like cleanse all condis currently on you and gain all boons, fits more into the theme.

Phineas Poe.3018:

These were your proposed changes to Juggernaut:

Every single thing you suggested is a buff to its damage. Better cleave, faster auto-attack, shorter CDs, and better mobility. None of these are necessary. You can already 1v2 a lot of match-ups with Juggernaut when running Marauder.

It’s a transformation skill. I’m not sure what you’re really expecting, or that you should be expecting more than we’re currently getting from it. It will always only be good at a very specific place and time—and only when you’re actually running a damage amulet will it actually be threatening.

Maybe pre-Heart of Thorns we took it for reasons other than damage, but what “support” does it give compared to other options we have currently? Mortar Kit gives you a heal/water field, access to frost armor/chill, blind, and poison. Sneak Gyro gives you stability and stealth. Nothing Elixir X has compares to them.

It’s a damage elite, and it should only be used as such.

It’s also used for:
Crowd Control – Which hardly is effective post-HoT against many classes that have high stability, block, endurance regen/evade skills, etc.

• Suggested Change: Make them actually effective. You have 15s in a form and it should matter…currently it doesn’t matter because everything in Tornado is blockable.

Mobility – See that Thief or Mesmer running by going for the decap. You can close the gap faster with this (but still only hit a little past halfway even after Rocket Charge).

• Suggested Change: Increase the range a bit so you can actually contest a decap. Fighting Mesmers or Thieves solo may be tough at times, but least you bought your team time to rotate and help out. Much better than letting them decap and wasting time re-capping. It may not be the Engi’s forte to recap, but in Ranked you just might have to just to keep your team in the game.

Escape – That little HP boost you get can buy you time to escape. It’s a really mini heal. Plus, if you Dash or Dust, you can get out of a pickle.

• Suggested Change: See Mobility, instead apply “escaping bad situation” logic or getting back into fights.

Stability – Reason you can stay in a fight and ignore all the hard CC.

Damage Reduction – Engi’s are squishy and many 1v1 matchups are to be avoided. This buys you time until your team arrives. However, this doesn’t reduce conditions. You can do all the damage with your Marauder, but Necros can easily survive through all of it while killing you.

• Suggested Change: Condition Damage/Duration Reduction. You don’t have your heals, kits, or anything that keeps you alive from conditions.

Damage – This is more CLEAVE damage. Again, if you are seriously running Marauder in ranked you are handicapping your team. You are really a DPS class in PvP. You are support. Even if you aren’t running Marauder, the Physical Damage of Juggernaut is many used to cleave through (3 punch combo in 2s, that’s 7-8 punches in 15s).

• Suggested Change: For Rampage – Faster punches. Lower Cooldown (every skill has a casttime and cooldown). For Tornado – Unblockable skills (see Crowd Control).
• Faster punches I can admit isn’t necessary, but look at the other skills you have…they are currently made to support…which is why they are effective at very specific times (if you get lucky with the Elixir’s pick).

Rampage is preferred because of the supportive damage it brings, but comparably to what the most effective build—this is usually just to keep you in the fight until your long cooldowns come back. Probably the biggest reason you take Elixir X in PvP because of the AoE Moa.

Engi’s in PvP are supportive (their entire kit is designed this way). In order to support effectively, they need to have skills that can maximize that support.

Again, you do have a point if you run pure DPS (for Rampage). But I don’t think one should be ignorant to why Engi’s meta isn’t DPS. While you are thinking my suggestion is soley a buff Engi’s damage…it’s not.

Damage can stay exactly the same, fine, if that makes you happy…but support the Elixir gives isn’t at the same level as many other classes. Between the cast-times of the Elixir, the transformation RNG, the lack of ability to combo skills together, Engi’s in Tornado or Rampage can just be easily just be kited or just ignored. This is why some players just gravitate toward Stealth Gyro and Mortar in many match-ups.

You want to be consistently reliable not just “kitten , got tornado.”, “Well, I got a few punches in but they just healed right up.”, and “Cleaving the downstate to prevent their team from res’ing them. Dang, no one stomped.”

Stealth gyro is consistently reliable. You know its utility.
Mortar kit is consistently reliable. You know its utility.

Digikid.7230:

I always thought Elixir X could be something like cleanse all condis currently on you and gain all boons, fits more into the theme.

So…. elixir c with only a better boon output?

Digikid.7230:

I always thought Elixir X could be something like cleanse all condis currently on you and gain all boons, fits more into the theme.

Thats kinda like Elixir C mixed with the Mesmer’s stolen item. Tbh the RNG on the transformation shouldn’t exist. Most people don’t run Elixir X as it’s a gamble on what form you will get. For the CD cost on it, you should at least know what you are going to become. I think the tornado is nice, but still pretty weak and easy to condi down (even without stability). The Juggernaut is nice when ya get it.

Imo the Elixir X (if keeping as a transformation elixir) should have it own unique transformation. Keep the toss ability the same. Whatever it transforms to, maybe give it resistance instead of stability. If going have a new ability (as opposed to transformation) It could be a condi removal, but make it an aoe around the player where it either cleanses or transforms condis to boons (maybe max 5 ppl or max 5 condis) , but also any baddies get their boons corrupted (max 5 again). Be a nice lil counter to the Plague/Epi combo issue ppl are complaining about that is imbalanced.

Maybe my idea is crazy or maybe not. Maybe its a good general concept but needs a bit of tweaking. Who knows.

Bro – " watchwork moa " you have +1000 from me, for this!! things like: " increase dmg here, rework this… " this is common, but change engi moa is great idea

LUST.7241:

Again, you do have a point if you run pure DPS (for Rampage). But I don’t think one should be ignorant to why Engi’s meta isn’t DPS. While you are thinking my suggestion is soley a buff Engi’s damage…it’s not.

The deeper argument I’m getting at is that we could use some survivability or damage adjustments so that Marauder isn’t a death sentence vs. a lot of compositions; it’s not Elixir X that needs buffing so much as other choice elements surrounding it.

That we’re forced into still running all three of our defensive trees over a year after Heart of Thorns and after five seasons of ranked PvP says enough about where the real problems of this profession lie.

LUST.7241:

Phineas Poe.3018:

I disagree. Wearing a Marauder amulet, a Tornado proc of Elixir X can literally wipe teams with proper positioning and timing.

I don’t think it needs to be touched at all. Elite skills is the one area where engineer is absolutely stacked. While most classes are left with only one real choice, the Mortar Kit, Elixir X, and Sneak Gyro are all quite dominant at what they’re designed to do.

Running Marauder in this meta is such a risky move…especially when the biggest benefit is an elite that is based on RNG, timing, and positioning. Couple that with the limited time you have and its cooldown?

You’d feel more confident running different runes, sigils, or amulets if, at least, your elite can be more effective without needing those things (like almost every other meta elite other classes have).

The RNG option of Elixir X over Gyro or Mortar would actually be quite the handicap. Not saying all these suggestions are perfect but an RNG Elite that also depends on “timing” should at least be comparable to the non RNG elites that can completely turn a fight around (like other classes have).

Its the RNG of this skill that really makes or breaks it. And the suggestions really don’t add anything to make these options OP (just makes them more reliable). Least make the options worthy.

Sure there isn’t RNG with Tossing the Elixir, but you are only hitting a max of 3 targets and for less time than the cooldown + cast-time can justify. Signet of Humility (Mesmer) is 6s, .25s more casttime, 60s more cooldown…but has a pretty useful Passive. in case you don’t have the opportune time to cast it.

I’m not against leaving Elixir X alone, but given the meta, it’s pretty outdated.

This elite is pretty much worth it for Moa alone. If it has that as a toolbelt….. you have to balance that with the effectiveness of the skill.