Guild Wars 2

Recent experiences I, and many others I have talked to, have revealed there is lots of discrimination happening in game towards other players due to the class they play. Not joking though, I was playing my engineer today and just because I’m an engineer I started getting flooded with hate whispers just for PLAYING the class. These aren’t people that I’ve ever played with or fought before, just random people in Hotm that have started whispering me to verbally abuse me for playing the engineer class.

Probably just some jerks who got wrecked by turrets or some junk like that who wanted to let off steam but seriously, this kind of behavior is unacceptable. If balance over 1 build has gotten to the point that I (and other engineer buddies I play and practice with) am being whispered by random people to just be verbally abused for liking the playstyle of an engineer (None of us run turrets or support people who do) then obviously either some action needs to be taken by anet to assist in community abuse control or there needs to be some “balance patch” to make people do this stuff less.

It doesn’t have to even be a nerf to turrets, just disguise it as a turret nerf or something so this crap will stop. I know people who have quit playing classes they love or quit the game because of verbal abuse just for playing an engineer. This is disgusting and I’m really quite done with it. Yes I know I can block people but why should all engineers have to fill a block list just because other people don’t like the class we play?

Please, let us know if this has happened to you and bring some extra awareness to the arising issue of class discrimination in gw2.

Peutrifectus.4830:

Folks do hate us Engi’s in hotm… And yeah, it’s probably turret rage or celestial hate. You just have to glance at the pvp forums to figure that much.

Hey, last night I was playing a game, got abuse off this mesmer for not 1v1ing him… Er rotate better and you won’t get +1ed, was my reply. Anyway, they had a quitter at about 250-75 so it was our game. I found the guy and had a go (phantasm and clones everywhere!). He got me really low in the watchtower (battle of…) so I stealth disengaged healed up and came up the other staircase and burst him down…

All I typed was, “1v1” and got nothing but post match wwhisper abuse… For being an engineer… You know the stuff..

I wouldn’t mind but I don’t us turrets, not celestial… Just not a bad player

I am kind of surprise that they don’t just merg all those threads and relocate them here as the mods do with certain other professions.

Thanks for being the first one to join in the movement to raise awareness of class racism Cmon, all you engis out there speak up. Now is the time to end this destructive behavior. Bring this to the attention of our superiors and let’s make a change to this wonderful game (with a little less than wonderful community at times).

So i get this pretty often, most of the time i just laugh it off and say “Sorry” and nothing else or tell them some things they can do “x to counter x skill”. It still sucks because i feel like im doing something wrong just by playing the only thing ive played since launch but then again you cant make people not be hateful or rude so w/e.

I have actaully had a very hard time understanding just what have changed doing my one year break, that have made Engineer’s seem OP in so many peoples eye! I mean, I allways loved the profession since release, even while we where the least played and people saw us as a kittenty profession. But it’s not like any really major buffs have gone our ways since I went on a break til I came back? Is it overall game balance that have put us in a better spot? The Introduction of Celestial? or is it really just people getting mad over the Turret’s?
I mean the sPvP forum have quite a few nerf X thing at Engineers, which we have had ever since the game came out!
Tho have yet to meet anyone being directly hostile against me just because I play Engineer, but I mostly do WvW so that might be why!
But hope Anet takes a stand against it, bad behavior and harrashment, no matter the reason shouldn’t find place!

+1 Amadeus , Turrets need a rework 4 pvp thats all.

Amadeus.5687:

Is it overall game balance that have put us in a better spot? The Introduction of Celestial? or is it really just people getting mad over the Turret’s?

I think it’s a mix of the introduction of the celestial amulet and above all the abandon of bunker guardians in the meta. No more party stability, and since it’s a meta relying more on mobility, engineer and its mobile tankiness is king.

It’s not just class discrimination it’s BUILD discrimination within the class itself. Just yesterday i got verbally trashed from another engi he got ganged in wvw by my server people and i together with another guy just happened to ran pass at that moment, since he was about to go down i helped and tagged him to get exp/loot.
A minute later i get whispered and the trash starts (added the screen shot, look at the chat box) This is just a sliver of kitten that guy kept throwing.
I like cele engi because i feel like it utilizes every single stat beautifully and it’s effective. Is that a reason to be jerk? Apparently so and the sad thing is Devs can’t really influence that. Mentality of players won’t be changed if they themselves are not willing to change.

Engineer Turret is the Flavor of the month just like Power Ranger were before them. They are both not meta build, but very popular ones. Easy to relatively good with them, they can be frustrating to play against when you don’t know how to counter them.

This kind of build usually is one sided, but have obvious weakness because of their lack of versatility. Just like Power Ranger a couple months ago Engineer get a lot of hate right now because of the popularity of the build. As more and more ppl start to understand how easy they are to counter with the right build and as more ppl stop using those build the hate gonna drop down.

That only explain the hate, doesn’t excuse it. Raging over it because you don’t have the patience, observation skills or knowledge to understand how to fight those kind of build is one thing. But when you start insulting ppl using cheesy build, then you crossed a line.

In PvP and WvW, I laugh at people who complain about me “playing unfair”. Yes, I will knock you off a cliff if it will kill you. Yes, I will run away if losing, heal, and return with friends. Yes, I’ll try to lure you into NPCs that are friendly to me and hostile to you. While I don’t often run it since it’s honestly pretty boring, if I run quadturret, I will laugh as I leave you stunlocked.

You want a fair 1v1, find a custom arena for dueling. Anywhere else, I’ll use every dirty trick (aside from actual cheating or exploits, those are a no-go) that I can to win. And if you angrily whisper me about how you could kick my no-skill behind in a fair 1v1, I’ll laugh because true or not, it doesn’t matter. Arenas are 5v5 for a reason, and WvW can have hundreds of players active. 1v1ing is just stupid.

Builds with low skill floors that are still effective will always receive some hate.

I can admit that I was a bit harsh to one engineer once, but apologized after we ended up having a very good conversation after my initial discussion about how it was too effective for how stupid easy it is to play (to which he agreed).

Thankfully I wasn’t ranting at someone that had beaten me … on the contrary, I had him pinned down and we rotated a +1 and cleared him off the point.

I dislike it when GW2 enables these sorts of builds as low skill floor with high effectiveness allows it to become very commonplace and generate these large amounts of hate.

Ranger longbow isn’t as bad, but it has had the same effect. It is why when I ran into a Ranger named “Press Two To Win”, that I happily stomped him with my condition ranger spec and asked “how’d pushing 2 work for you?”.

Amadeus.5687:

I have actaully had a very hard time understanding just what have changed doing my one year break

For one, the remnants of the condi meta are almost completely gone. A spirit ranger or a condi nec are a rarity in the current meta. This leaves Engi without a hard counter in most matches. Secondly and most recently, Stability was changed and due to Slick Shoes broken functionality it can burn through up to 10 stacks of stability on someone just trying to walk out of it. Even worse, it will still burn stability stacks if you just stand still. This makes it one of the best CCs in the game if not actually the absolute best and it can cover a whole capture point.

As for Turrets, they should never have been buffed and the Experimental Turrets trait should never have been added to the game. Doesn’t get much more passive than having 40-60% uptime on all boons for no real effort. I might add that Engineers were hated one year ago as well due to Decap build, this enmity against Engineers is nothing new.

Thaddeus.4891:

Engineer Turret is the Flavor of the month

That’s one hell of a long month you’ve got there.

I can’t count the number of times I’ve been accused of being a turret engi when playing cele or rabid 2kit, or been called ‘cele trash’ after owning someone with a zerker static discharge build. People complain about stuff they perceive as ‘OP’ without ever having tried the class/build to learn what to dodge, what deals damage, etc, so of course they lose to it. Just ignore them, block if necessary, and move along.

why would it even bother you enough to make a thread about? grow some balls. just flame back or block them. they’re sour because they lost to engineer supremacy. rub it in, it’s fun.

Tbh, I don’t have much of an issue dealing with it as I find plenty of clever lines to use against said rude people but it shouldn’t be a problem in the first place. I mean I totally understand when someone is sour cause you beat them and their fragile ego is wounded but the thing I’m trying to get at is the fact that I’m getting pm’ed (so are others) by randoms who do not know me and who I have never seen or heard of before and getting raged at and verbally abused. Yes I could just block and move on but people should not be put into this situation for playing something they love (for me it’s cele rifle or sd zerk rifle when I want to screw around)

Could it be that this is an effect of anet not bringing out a balance patch to deal with the complaints? Or is it something as simple as people are tired of 1 build so they are punishing everyone who plays the class due to their frustration? And if any of these are the issue then obviously something needs to be done about it as I’m sure nobody enjoys having randoms rage whisper them for liking a class.

Again, I don’t personally have an issue dealing with this but in order to prevent this kind of thing from happening to others, what can we as a community, or anet as designers, do for the game to prevent this from hitting other players? Is there a feature we need to add like when someone blocks you, you automatically block them or does anet need to bring a slight nerf to turrets to help lessen the hate we are receiving?

@zaced, what’s really fun is if you can say something before they block you just say “play better” and watch the fireworks if you’re into that sort of thing.

Okay, I avoided this as long as I could.

First off, this happens to other professions and other builds as well.

But what really bugs me is the title of this thread. You even put racism in parentheses. When in the word before it, you mention “class”. Racism has to do with race. In the most simplified terms, it is “Professional Prejudice”.

But yeah, some folks are punks. They have complete anonymity because it is the internet. I generally like to say nothing more to them in reply then “I love you”. No matter what they say, I reply with “I love you” or “I love you too”. I think the fact that it is a clear indication that they mean nothing to me, and are not getting to me, makes them more angry, and entertains me.

and the award of the most kittened use of the word racism goes to..

I can only blame the education system. Profession Biased (more likely Build Biased) would have been a better choice, but could be seen to acknowledge the those that favor a profession/build can be just a biased towards it a those against it.

I get up and dress like a hippy, act like a hippy, sing and dance like a hippy and then I walk around offended that people call me a hippy!

If it walks like a duck, and looks like a duck…. its probably a duck!

Shieldbash.5304:

I get up and dress like a hippy, act like a hippy, sing and dance like a hippy and then I walk around offended that people call me a hippy!

If it walks like a duck, and looks like a duck…. its probably a duck!

i think this meant to be rude (shieldbash had ‘rage’ issues), but seems confusing. hippies are cool man.

condi and stability are not so popular anymore, and people hate dying to cc. tkittenakes engi seem strong because people don’t run counters much, and the cc makes people more angry when the die to engi (like with hambow). turret engi stomps noobs (most of who don’t think of themselves as such), and guess what? noobs rage.

nerds will get mad at you, but you don’t have to care. put on some chill tunes and have a drink. the haters only have power over you if you care. you can always just reply with a simple ‘lol’.

Sylentir.8913:

In PvP and WvW, I laugh at people who complain about me “playing unfair”. Yes, I will knock you off a cliff if it will kill you. Yes, I will run away if losing, heal, and return with friends. Yes, I’ll try to lure you into NPCs that are friendly to me and hostile to you. While I don’t often run it since it’s honestly pretty boring, if I run quadturret, I will laugh as I leave you stunlocked.

You want a fair 1v1, find a custom arena for dueling. Anywhere else, I’ll use every dirty trick (aside from actual cheating or exploits, those are a no-go) that I can to win. And if you angrily whisper me about how you could kick my no-skill behind in a fair 1v1, I’ll laugh because true or not, it doesn’t matter. Arenas are 5v5 for a reason, and WvW can have hundreds of players active. 1v1ing is just stupid.

all classes go through this though ever heard someone praise thieves rangers and warriors about how skilled they are? me neither

Let’s set some ground rules, shall we?

It is not “Racism” but it is “Chauvinism”. Racism is discrimination based on colour of the skin or the phenotype of an organism. There is nothing like that when it comes to hostile approach towards a class in MMORPG so it is a kind of discrimination with broader array of causes – thus “Chauvinism”.

It is not “noob” but “skillwise-challanged-player”. Do not be hurtful towards others.

It is not “l2p” but “would you kindly take some time to explore another ventures and builds of your class before committing to one build that you apparently might have very little skill to use”.

And most importantly young dragonborn. You must travel to the peak of “Throat-of-the-world” and learn new shout: “ENGINEER-SO-GYNY”. This thu’um you shall use every time someone makes you feel a bit insecure or uncomfortable because of the class you play. This thu’um will strike the enemy from the chair they sit on and make them possible to hit with more conventional civilian lawsuit on “hate-crime” charges.

But seriously – in the screenshot the guys does not even use vulgar words. He doesn’t insult your family, your mother or the town you live in. What he said could be paralleled to “Your mother is a hamster and your father smelled of elderberries”. This is not verbal abuse, simply mean comment.

You have to “l2p” in real life because right now with your attitude my approach might be seen as hurtful attack on innocent individual with intention of belittling while it is simply “sarcastic”.

Quad Turret Clerics (or settlers) Engi here (for spvp only)… Yeah, I stomp people, and I get stomped too (that’s how pvp works). I also know how to counter quad turret engineers (dude, just push/pull/fear/knock back them away from their turrets, it’s not that hard—it’s not like they run a lot of stability).

As for getting trolled? I usually supply a snarky rebuttal (usually in the form of a /bow), and if it continues-> Wish them a nice day, then block and report them. It’s not hard.

I run a completely different build for wvwvw (working on settlers with grenades and bombs to see how it works), but I enjoy the turret build for spvp. It’s actually not an easy one to play consistently well against good opponents.

MattyP.6954:

Quad Turret Clerics (or settlers) Engi here (for spvp only)… Yeah, I stomp people, and I get stomped too (that’s how pvp works). I also know how to counter quad turret engineers (dude, just push/pull/fear/knock back them away from their turrets, it’s not that hard—it’s not like they run a lot of stability).

As for getting trolled? I usually supply a snarky rebuttal (usually in the form of a /bow), and if it continues-> Wish them a nice day, then block and report them. It’s not hard.

I run a completely different build for wvwvw (working on settlers with grenades and bombs to see how it works), but I enjoy the turret build for spvp. It’s actually not an easy one to play consistently well against good opponents.

Rabid is in my opinion a much better than settler becouse the damage is really much higher

PierPiero.9142:

MattyP.6954:

Quad Turret Clerics (or settlers) Engi here (for spvp only)… Yeah, I stomp people, and I get stomped too (that’s how pvp works). I also know how to counter quad turret engineers (dude, just push/pull/fear/knock back them away from their turrets, it’s not that hard—it’s not like they run a lot of stability).

As for getting trolled? I usually supply a snarky rebuttal (usually in the form of a /bow), and if it continues-> Wish them a nice day, then block and report them. It’s not hard.

I run a completely different build for wvwvw (working on settlers with grenades and bombs to see how it works), but I enjoy the turret build for spvp. It’s actually not an easy one to play consistently well against good opponents.

Rabid is in my opinion a much better than settler becouse the damage is really much higher

I disagree, at least as far as spvp is concerned. What I sacrifice in dps is made up for in staying power. I’ve been able to told points against 3 foes until allies show up—which is pretty helpful with inattentive pugs.

For WvWvW, I’m working some support in to my build with elixer-infused bombs.

Class discrimination exists for a reason, tho it is more build discrimination. If you play some OP build well you deserve to be told Honestly this game has some serious issues with balance. Every game has and it will always be like this, but some builds here are far too long left alone.

And it is really hard to blame people for hating on those builds if they keep being farmed by easy build over and over. I know from my own experience that it is really annoying and I hate on those classes too.

The fact is people in PvP want to PvP not just watch others to wipe the floor with them. I’ve played many MMOs and PvP in all of them and I dont think I’ve seen such cheesy builds yet.

Saying it is shameful you say that being a human is shameful. At least in my opinion most of those “shameful” behaviours happen because people act in affect, therefore kinda without thinking. Sure, there are rude etc. people but a lot of people also is frustrated with nothing being done about certain crazy strong builds.

One thing to say about those “builds” I’ve never seen in any other game someone kill certain class and go something like “I hate you” or “Die you kitten”. And I have seen it here more than once. It is not about the community, but about really crazy strong builds and nothing being done for a long time about them. Most people do not snap just for the hell of it but because they are frustrated.

Omnio.3652:

Class discrimination exists for a reason, tho it is more build discrimination. If you play some OP build well you deserve to be told Honestly this game has some serious issues with balance. Every game has and it will always be like this, but some builds here are far too long left alone.

And it is really hard to blame people for hating on those builds if they keep being farmed by easy build over and over. I know from my own experience that it is really annoying and I hate on those classes too.

The fact is people in PvP want to PvP not just watch others to wipe the floor with them. I’ve played many MMOs and PvP in all of them and I dont think I’ve seen such cheesy builds yet.

No, it is easy to blame people for their behavior. Their is no justification for appalling behavior to another player, regardless of profession played or build used. Using that as a lame excuse for such behavior is shameful.

ronpierce.2760:

Truth tends to hurt, but of course, its a generalization. Not EVERY thief/engi player is an awful person. But there tends to be a very vocal “elitist” thief and engineer community that gives a bad reputation. Like I said, some perfectly legit players take the bullet often times just because people have grown annoyed in general at the classes..

Sounds like someone is doing poorly in PvP. Are you angry because I beat you a couple 1v1 in a row earlier, and you assumes you should have won, simply because you were on a necro?

What people tend to forget is that Gw2’s combat system is way more impacted by actual player-skill than the build they’re using. This is why they rage about builds when in relaity they actually need more training.
Even tho having the right tools for the right moment is the nature of a hard-counter, uphill fights can be won if one plays smart and the other just relies on his natural advantage, which is, frankly, nothing but an illusion.
Going into PvP as a engi running utility-goggles, and to expect to demolish every thief on the field is plain silly. Good players will outplay their opponent, regardless what build they’re running. So training and becoming better is the only thing one can do when he “watch others to wipe the floor with them”, because he just faced a better player, not a better build.
When you mastered your class and feel comfortable with it, then you will see that your build limits or expands your options in a certain way, but ultimately things like proper dodging, positioning, map-awareness and cd-management are the things that make the difference between and good and a great player.

This is also true when you face turreteers. A bad turreteer will park all his turrets, including himself on the node, eating all incoming aoe’s while using his AA to shoot back. He relies on his build.
A good turreteer will find elevated and hard to reach spots (read: not using the air-cast exploit) to set his turrets up in max efficiency, will do all (the limited things) he can, to prevent you from sniping the rocket-turret, use his imobilize and OS to expose you as long as possible to his turrets and try to avoid incoming dmg by proper dodging and LoS’ing.
Both run the same build.
One is a PITA even when his rocket-turret is on cd.
The other goes into downstate seconds later.

I literally answered exactly how this happens (not saying I support THAT it happens) and got interacted… Just a fair warning, don’t be too honest or be extra careful how you answer this concern… It’s not worth it.

Since the discussion in this thread has derailed and is no longer constructive this thread is now closed.