Guild Wars 2

I mean, lets be honest here. The Meta absolutely hates any Condi build in PvE. I don’t want to play a grenade based Engie. I hate having to continuously spam the 1 key in order to continuously throw grenades while 2-5 cool down.

I also absolutely love the flamethrower, but as things would have it, the flamethrower is a condition based kit. I want my little Asuran to be able to burn things to a crisp to his hearts content, but I can’t do it and feel like I’m being helpful to the group. I will say that burn damage is one of the better condi damage types. It doesn’t get erased when another source of burn damage is applied. However, Condi dps is still outclassed by Zerker geared players. I know condi damage is pretty good against large groups of mobs but the advantages still don’t seem to outweigh the advantages of just taking another direct damage player.

Is there anyway you guys over at Anet can look into possible re-balancing of the system so players can play the way they want to play and not the only way the game will allow them to play?

Possible suggestions – So I don’t have to include the words PvE in every point, Just assume every point pertains to PvE, none of this is to apply to PvP.

- Rework how conditions function

- Rework Dungeon AI to make running super squishy Zerker setups harmful to all but the most experienced players

- Rework Dungeon encounters in a way that make all Zerker teams disadvantageous(i.e. Add monsters that gobble squishy zerkers up for breakfast)

— As a supporting point for the previous one, try for a balance where having all of one type of build is disadvantageous. Punish groups running all Berzerkers, or all Condi, or all Support, etc.

…well that wasn’t many but now on to specifics

- Rework how conditions function : I don’t mind that you punish the overuse of conditions by overriding and stacking. This is actually good because you’ve already prevented the possibility of an all Condi group being viable. Conditions could probably do with a bit of tweaking however. Burn damage ticks far too slowly for you to get in enough damage. Bleeding is an example of a fairly good condition. Bleeds tick really fast and should expire quickly having dealt their full damage in a short period of time. Poison should have additional benefits. Its tick damage is low and the penalty to healing is exclusive to PvP uses. Poison could also reduce the attack damage of enemy mobs to make spreading and keeping up poison beneficial to a groups survival in high dps situations. Confusion expires far too quickly to be of any use on mobs that may not even attack in the duration given. Perhaps increasing the duration or having conditions expire when an attack is made and just allowing them to stack up to a certain point as an example. I think thats most of the damage related conditions. All of this is merely an example scenario to get the creative juices going.

- Rework dungeon AI : A tricky one indeed. Rather than completely changing dungeons as a whole, Maybe adding in a mob or two with the sole purpose of tracking down the player with the lowest max hp (usually a zerker player) and making their life hell. Another example might be a mob that applys boons to allies consistently, maybe mob specific boons as well like a retaliation that freakin hurts. This would of course directly punish direct damage setups, but that is the point after all. There can be many different approaches to this one.

- Rework Dungeon encounters : Also tricky. One thing to take note of is how squishy zerker players are. They don’t have any vit increases aside possible traits which are often left out. Implementing something that causes attrition amongst players may work. If all zerker groups are dieing a lot then we are off to a good start on fixing group compositions. Of course, we don’t want something that will punish a group of zerker players that is experienced and well coordinated. However, more consistent damage mechanics might give support based builds more love and viability in the dungeon scene. I’ve got a healing Guardian build that is quite remarkable in the amount of healing and survivability it brings. Conditions and small amounts of attrition damage don’t phase the groups I’m running with which leaves players to get downed by just purely taking a big chunk of damage to the face. However, this build isn’t really needed and I don’t often find groups who like the build because it’s so easy to survive as a squishy anyway.

There is no easy answer, but I just want to point out that over there at Anet, you mentioned you were designing the system so you didn’t have to have a particular class make-up. However, although not forced, the meta has kind of tossed aside support and condi builds in favor of all Zerker all the time setups because they are fast and they work without any real drawbacks.

Lolnut.9812:

I mean, lets be honest here. The Meta absolutely hates any Condi build in PvE. I don’t want to play a grenade based Engie. I hate having to continuously spam the 1 key in order to continuously throw grenades while 2-5 cool down.

I also absolutely love the flamethrower, but as things would have it, the flamethrower is a condition based kit.

You kinda lost me here. Nades are not the only power option. In fact it is well documented that bombs are better for top end direct damage. You also have rifle builds most notably SD variants.

FT is also not at all a condition damage kit. It certainly does give some burning, but that’s a good condition no matter what build you run.

To be clear I agree with the theory of your thread, just not the basis for it. Conditions should definitely be improved in PVE.

I love my FT build. Puts out some intense burn damage ticks AoE style. Nothing that can compete with Zerkers though. I haven’t tried any power/crit based Engie builds though I have done one with my Necro. My experience with the Engie is small as it’s only my most recent level 80 character to be fully geared in exotics and tested in dungeon runs. My love is for condi builds as my warrior runs one, my Engie does, and my Necro did for a while. They are all great but just a bit outclassed.

FT is more of a power weapon in pve. i hit 10k flame blasts with only 7 stacks of might.

Lolnut.9812:

I love my FT build. Puts out some intense burn damage ticks AoE style. Nothing that can compete with Zerkers though. I haven’t tried any power/crit based Engie builds though I have done one with my Necro. My experience with the Engie is small as it’s only my most recent level 80 character to be fully geared in exotics and tested in dungeon runs. My love is for condi builds as my warrior runs one, my Engie does, and my Necro did for a while. They are all great but just a bit outclassed.

I also prefer condition damage. I have always leaned more toward damage over time in general in games that I play.

However that doesn’t change how to best utilize the FT. If you have never tried it in a power build give it a try. The #2 skill can hit huge numbers with a very low cooldown. Auto attack sucks though, use the rifle for that.

All that needs to happen is the implementation of a clever way to bypass stack limits without blowing up the servers.

Condi will always be pretty much useless in endgame PvE until a solution to the stacking issue is found.

PvE as a whole needs to change in complexity, but going by the mobs they’ve been releasing through the living story, they are working on that and it’s looking absolutely excellent. When they eventually implement some of the mechanics of those mobs to original mobs throughout the game, things will get very interesting.

My personal favourites are the shield mobs which shield themselves and allies forcing your party to endure for a moment. That is exactly the mechanic which would fix the zerker meta.

CC mobs and confusion mobs are excellent too.

Lolnut.9812:

… I also absolutely love the flamethrower, but as things would have it, the flamethrower is a condition based kit …

Actually, Flamethrower is a power weapon. Yes, it dishes out burning. But that’s 1 condition that stacks duration, not intensity. And the burning it dishes out is designed to boost the damage of your autoattack and stack might (napalm).

The problem with FT isn’t that it’s a condition weapon, it’s that it doesn’t deal enough damage to make it a primary weapon kit. It has great utility though.

FT should be buffed a little bit, beside 15% of alchemy boost applies only to power not cond dmg (it should apply to both either dmg or 15% duration in cond). Flameblast its not so bad as having might i can make 3-4k but explosion buffs does not apply to this skill, also whats wrong in giving it blast finisher? There are many skills in another classes (like traited hundred blades 8sec in warrior) that are powerfull. Give flameblast blast finisher and explosion vuln if chosen….

Seras.5702:

Lolnut.9812:

… I also absolutely love the flamethrower, but as things would have it, the flamethrower is a condition based kit …

Actually, Flamethrower is a power weapon. Yes, it dishes out burning. But that’s 1 condition that stacks duration, not intensity. And the burning it dishes out is designed to boost the damage of your autoattack and stack might (napalm).

The problem with FT isn’t that it’s a condition weapon, it’s that it doesn’t deal enough damage to make it a primary weapon kit. It has great utility though.

^this

If they could boost the FT auto attack up by 15% or so, it would be a much better weapon, on par with some of our other options.

I agree though that there needs to be a condition rework with PvE.

Since most suggestions is about reworking dungeon More than fixing engineers, the best solution is to fix stacking so it isn’t easy mode anymore. Make it easier to not stack than to stack.

I think they could actually give you condition buffs the way this would work is when you hit a mob you gain a stack of bleed and damage to the mod is done according to your bleeds.

this would by pass the 25 limit should be farily possible as you’ll see more conditions in a zerg or so I believe this would work. I’ve heard of similar suggestions other where.

runeblade.7514:

Since most suggestions is about reworking dungeon More than fixing engineers, the best solution is to fix stacking so it isn’t easy mode anymore. Make it easier to not stack than to stack.

That is a horrible solution. Direct damage can and will out do condition damage builds. Why should condition builds be forced to have more difficulty doing damage over a direct damage build?

If your suggesting condition builds are easy mode damage in PvE, then you really need to make a build of max condition damage and play it in all aspects of PvE, then make a full direct damage build. Trust me, you will change your tune.

coglin.1867:

runeblade.7514:

Since most suggestions is about reworking dungeon More than fixing engineers, the best solution is to fix stacking so it isn’t easy mode anymore. Make it easier to not stack than to stack.

That is a horrible solution. Direct damage can and will out do condition damage builds. Why should condition builds be forced to have more difficulty doing damage over a direct damage build?

If your suggesting condition builds are easy mode damage in PvE, then you really need to make a build of max condition damage and play it in all aspects of PvE, then make a full direct damage build. Trust me, you will change your tune.

Stacking: all player group together in a corner which causes all mobs to cluster together as the mob approaches the tightly grouped player. See queen spider run.

Your post doesn’t seem to match my post since I am not talking about condition stacks.

runeblade.7514:

Stacking: all player group together in a corner which causes all mobs to cluster together as the mob approaches the tightly grouped player. See queen spider run.

Your post doesn’t seem to match my post since I am not talking about condition stacks.

Ha ha, it does if you misread it as I did. Being this is a condition thread, I interpreted your use of the term “stacking” in the reference of condition stacking. I guess thats what happens when folks veer off topic.