Guild Wars 2

Anyone care to post the amount per tick of their condition damage? I turned my condition damage stat up to 11, but it just doesn’t seem like I tick off enough damage to be any good. I’ll have to log in to WvW and get my exact numbers which I will post shortly.

Looks like my typical damage tick is 127 …… almost every piece of my gear is +cond dam

My bleed damage is 100 and my burn damage is 547 per tick. rampager gear and a mix of rampager/beserk trinkets.

121 to 160 bleed ticks. twice that for poison. 800+ burns. Depends on how many stacks of corruption and might I’m running with.

I typically start at about 60 per tick and with might fully stacked that climbs to 100. I’m typically using some toughness/vit gear though, so that brings it down a bit. Though after seeing these numbers… I think it’s time to build me another set of armor…

Bleed: 121
Poison: 241
Burn: 720

Condition damage: 1356
Boons: 6 stacks of might (35 per might)

You can easily calculate the tick damage if you look at your condition damage though.
Just use:
2.5 + (0.5 * Level) + (0.05 * Condition Damage) for bleeds
(In my case that’s 120.8)

4 + Level + (0.1 * Condition Damage) for poison
(in my case 240.6)

8 + (4 * Level) + (0.25 * Condition Damage) for burns
(in my case 719.5)

edit: added formulas from wiki

Thanks for all the replies. I’m just gathering some real world data (thanks for the formulas as well!) to see which direction I want to go. I really thought a condition damage build would be better, because it’s advertised as ignoring armor, etc, but it just doesn’t seem like having so much +cond dam is worth the sacrifices. Thinking maybe sacrificing some for Pow or Precision.

Edit: I’m running 1537 Condition damage currently. P/S setup

Was just wondering if everyone was wearing the con/tough/precision gear. I am only sitting on 950 con damage. I am wearing full rampagers and wondering if it would be worth changing over.

in wvw and pve, direct damage completely outpaces condition damage vs all targets.
Even high armored ones. And vs low armor it is a joke.
Hit a level 40 player with 1500 armor in WvW with 2800power and they implode.
Hit them with condition damage and… its the same as hitting a level 80.

And due to the multiple forms of + % hp buffs, in wvw. cond damage is again basically useless in wvw. realm, guild both give hp buffs. Orbs did as well.

Because stats are capped in spvp, its not as bad, and the equation is much more even.
Direct damage till mathematically outpaces condition damage. But we aren’t talking about 20k hits anymore.

Condition damage scales with level, and not gear directly.
And scales with only +duration. sortof. it also has the issue of being nullified post application.

While direct damage, has vulnerability, crit, crit damage, power, weapon damage, % damage traits. Runes that increase % damage, sigils that increase % damage.

toughness is inherently weaker then power due to the formula.
power/(toughness+armor)

For every 20 condition damage
+1 bleed
+2 poison
+3 confusion
+5 burn

Lanny.6987:

For every 20 condition damage
+1 bleed
+2 poison
+3 confusion
+5 burn

explains why it’s so tiny. sigh. tried grenades again this evening (it’s been months for me btw) just to punish myself, yep still borked. 30-39 grenades even with the two new damages and having two superior sigils of fire on. Was in Frostgorge btw trying to farm for venom sacs. That didn’t go so well either but that’s for another thread.

Condition damage on it’s own is weak but hybrid setups such as the p/p elixir builds take advantage of both power and condi well and the ability to maintain might stacks helps keep the balance. I find it rather effective in PvE/WvW/Fractals… In WvW roaming its eats people effectively has good survivability(carrion gear). Some precision based jewelry can be helpful depending the traits you pick up and you can have near permanent Fury + 20% crit to compensate with Runes of Rage ( + 20% duration to Fury) or Runes of Altruism 3 stacks of AoE Might and AoE Fury every time you heal along with + 15% boon duration which is nice for the elixir buffs. The +healing on the sup runes of altruism is negligible since it’s mainly being used for the 105 Power/Condition damage you receive from might and the + 20% crit from the fury. The buffs affect you + team mates.

I’ve tried a lot of other setups for “pure” condition dmg or power but they seemed to lose out a bit on dmg “totals” from my point of view at least with +40% condition duration having longer lasting poison/burn and bleeds up help keep the pressure up when I’m repositioning and kiting.

WvW Roaming with this kind of setup is phenomenal but lackluster in the zerg. Glass grenade builds tend to shine more in the zerg.

Disastro.4086:

Condition damage on it’s own is weak but hybrid setups such as the p/p elixir builds take advantage of both power and condi well and the ability to maintain might stacks helps keep the balance. I find it rather effective in PvE/WvW/Fractals… In WvW roaming its eats people effectively has good survivability(carrion gear). Some precision based jewelry can be helpful depending the traits you pick up and you can have near permanent Fury + 20% crit to compensate with Runes of Rage ( + 20% duration to Fury) or Runes of Altruism 3 stacks of AoE Might and AoE Fury every time you heal along with + 15% boon duration which is nice for the elixir buffs. The +healing on the sup runes of altruism is negligible since it’s mainly being used for the 105 Power/Condition damage you receive from might and the + 20% crit from the fury. The buffs affect you + team mates.

I’ve tried a lot of other setups for “pure” condition dmg or power but they seemed to lose out a bit on dmg “totals” from my point of view at least with +40% condition duration having longer lasting poison/burn and bleeds up help keep the pressure up when I’m repositioning and kiting.

WvW Roaming with this kind of setup is phenomenal but lackluster in the zerg. Glass grenade builds tend to shine more in the zerg.

For the record, anything less than 50% condition duration does jack squat for engi’s pistol bleed.

Phuriocity.9218:

For the record, anything less than 50% condition duration does jack squat for engi’s pistol bleed.

I should’ve clarified 40% just from food alone(10% more from trait 10 in explosives). However due to the rounding system used thats still going to give you 1 extra tick for each bleed.

do you mean that 40% is enough for 1 extra tick? (due to the rounding system)

no. at least my testing in mist doesnt.

you need 50% duration to get one more tick on pistol 1.
33% for sharpshooter

PDV is 100% uptime on a sustained target already. However + duration would effect if you swap targets, or they run away, etc.

+duration is defiantly more powerful then + cond damage in a pistol cond damage build early.
The 40% food is pretty huge of course. Probably a larger gain then the 100power, 70 prec food is for a DD build.

I fail to see how cond can even come close to power builds in wvw though.

Lanny.6987:

For every 20 condition damage
+1 bleed
+2 poison
+3 confusion
+5 burn

This is only partially accurate.

Durations per application matter. and in some cases how many applications per.

Bleeds for example need to be counted per application as they stack.
1 pistol shot is a 2s bleed. this is then 2 damage per 20 condition, per shot.

Casia.4281:

Lanny.6987:

For every 20 condition damage
+1 bleed
+2 poison
+3 confusion
+5 burn

This is only partially accurate.

Durations per application matter. and in some cases how many applications per.

Bleeds for example need to be counted per application as they stack.
1 pistol shot is a 2s bleed. this is then 2 damage per 20 condition, per shot.

Durations don’t help when bursters can three shot and I think that’s the whole point of the argument, the cond damage was nerfed a month after release, nerfed on some classes more then others (that’s right the damage of the abilities that are used for cond builds are different per class I’m not joking) which is part of the problem. it’s why EG does hardly anything in the way of direct damage even tho we have huge stacks of power along with cond, and it’s why cond builds need an overhaul on this class so that we can be competative again. They’ve never corrected what they did to balance pvp at the launch of the game to this class.

There’s also a non tooltipped initial damage on other class abilities that do cond damage that engis never see, my rangers traps and when i played one the necros marks will do a small percentage of the total cond damage initially and then start ticking.

Engis just put the conds on the enemy and the abilities that do that are sorely underpowered because the ones that do damage don’t do enough and the ones that don’t do damage don’t do the initial cond damage that other classes enjoy.

Cond damage was not nerfed after release.
The damage calc is the same for everyone.
con damage is ticked off at the first full second for all professions.

Casia.4281:

Cond damage was not nerfed after release.
The damage calc is the same for everyone.
con damage is ticked off at the first full second for all professions.

Actually that’s not true, not everything is tooltipped properly in this game the tooltip issue has been there since day 1 and isn’t listed in the wiki. go ahead try a trap ranger and a necro and then go back and use an EG 3 you’ll see what I’m getting at. or the 4 and 5 grenade abilities. /nod sure the 45 nades now have a small initial hit but it doesn’t scale thus it’s completely different initial damage between classes.

I have a mesmer, thief, ranger, elem, warrior, and engineer.

Cond damage uses the same formula it has since beta.
The damage calc is the same for everyone.
Cond damage is ticked off at the first full second for all professions.

Most skills that deal condition damage, also deal direct damage. is that what you are getting at?
well, yeah? shrapnel grenade, blunderbuss, explosive shot, pdv, static shot, blowtorch, automatic fire, rocket turret, prybar, firebomb, concbomb, flame turret, throw naplam, rocket kick, tranq dart.
all of these deal damage, and apply conditions.

fumigate. is in its own category of being tied with incendiary ammo as the worst skill in the game. Someone missplaced a decimal on that skill coeff I think.

Engi skills that dont. box of nails. Napalm. Incendiary ammo.

Flash, and poison didn’t but now do.

so 3 skills only apply conditions.
What are you talking about man?

The question is also how many bleed stacks you manage to get on your target.

If you can get enough stacks your damage will be good. But then again it’s sustained damage with no chance of critting.

5 stacks of 121 damage = 605/s
1 Poison = 241/s
1 Burn= 720/s

Thats 1566/s aslong as you keep those stacks up, thats 15000 damage over 10 sec. Something a direct damage spec can burst in 2 seconds.

i get 145 ticks from bleeding

mifbifgiggle.6713:

i get 145 ticks from bleeding

Based on your other engineer posts I think this is probably inaccurate, but what is your condition damage stat? You stated you are a mix of stats so this is suspect to say the least.

ShaunZ.1098:

mifbifgiggle.6713:

i get 145 ticks from bleeding

Based on your other engineer posts I think this is probably inaccurate, but what is your condition damage stat? You stated you are a mix of stats so this is suspect to say the least.

My build involves stacking might with hgh, which adds to the condition damage. my base cd is 1330. With the might i get it is raised quite a bit.

I think its sad that on most EVERY engineer post, that has Anything to do with condition damage, there are people Telling someone how ‘bad’ it is… you know who you are, we’ve discussed this before…

i just think thats unfair. Its like Telling someone not to eat their favorite food, simply becaouse YOU dont like it….

it depends on your playstyle…. plain and simple…. and again, STOP quoting numbers from ANY wiki people!! they can be wrong…. let alone the fact that their is no dignified combat log, we simply have NO idea what strange formulas Anet has in place to factor any classes damage… its all Assumptions…. point in case, if you could easily calculate such simple formulas for our abilities… then Why the hek are we riddled with bugs etc??? its a simple answer…. Game Coding is Harder than you Think!! they dont just pull open some spreadsheet and mess with a algebra equations to ‘fix’ everyones so called ‘bugs’…

(before you rebudle, i apologize. long day at work, had to vent to someone other than a coworker =p)

to the OP: when condition spec’d, anywhere from 110-130ish depeding on WvW or sPvP, and might stacks….

PapaG.2317:

Was just wondering if everyone was wearing the con/tough/precision gear. I am only sitting on 950 con damage. I am wearing full rampagers and wondering if it would be worth changing over.

That is what I am wearing, with Rare Rabid trinkets with Rabid crests. Using Runes of the Undead.

Spec is 30/30/10/0/0

The burn from Incend trait hits for 663 a tick, bleeds hit currently for 120s, poison is in the 250ish range.

I love using it with Grenades because I can cover people with it. Using Superior Sigil of Earth, 30% bleed minor trait, I can usually have 10 stacks of both bleed and vun in the first 4 attacks, plus freezing, poison, burning.

It may not be as much damage but I cant count the number of people in WvW I have dropped that have gotten out of range where direct damage cant reach them, and still killed them.

I’m something like 1250 condition damage and normally don’t even add food if there isn’t enough movement in WvW to see some good fights. That leaves the 25 stack from sigil and I normally see 127 a tick on bleeds. Sometimes higher if HGH has kicked in well. Hitting 145 isn’t difficult fully invested with food and such and if I really want numbers I drop my toughness and switch to full carrion on armor.

The nice thing about the condition pistol/pistol elixer build is that if someone wipes away the conditions it doesn’t really matter. They are gonna be back up and ticking next shot.

mifbifgiggle.6713:

ShaunZ.1098:

mifbifgiggle.6713:

i get 145 ticks from bleeding

Based on your other engineer posts I think this is probably inaccurate, but what is your condition damage stat? You stated you are a mix of stats so this is suspect to say the least.

My build involves stacking might with hgh, which adds to the condition damage. my base cd is 1330. With the might i get it is raised quite a bit.

Casia.4281:

in wvw and pve, direct damage completely outpaces condition damage vs all targets.
Even high armored ones. And vs low armor it is a joke.
Hit a level 40 player with 1500 armor in WvW with 2800power and they implode.
Hit them with condition damage and… its the same as hitting a level 80.

And due to the multiple forms of + % hp buffs, in wvw. cond damage is again basically useless in wvw. realm, guild both give hp buffs. Orbs did as well.

Because stats are capped in spvp, its not as bad, and the equation is much more even.
Direct damage till mathematically outpaces condition damage. But we aren’t talking about 20k hits anymore.

Condition damage scales with level, and not gear directly.
And scales with only +duration. sortof. it also has the issue of being nullified post application.

While direct damage, has vulnerability, crit, crit damage, power, weapon damage, % damage traits. Runes that increase % damage, sigils that increase % damage.

toughness is inherently weaker then power due to the formula.
power/(toughness+armor)

If Rune and Using Master Tuning Crystals with right gear cond does scale with gear though indirectly. Rune of Undead =+ Crystal = 11% toughness to cond dmg.

Your level 40 will die all the same to my condition build as your power build. Might take a few seconds longer but I’ll be the last one standing. I say this being more often than not the last one standing when I face 80s.

As for clearing conditions I say please do. A condition Engineer will have them all back on you in the next sec to second and a half. Clear them again. And again. (Or if you are an Engineer and have 409 then three more times after that.) Last one standing.

I have run into people I cannot kill. Two guardians, a mesmer, and a necro (almost got her). We waved and moved on. Outside of that the fights can be long but eventually their hitpoints run out and mine don’t.

I can’t get a super high power build that has any survivability on an engineer (I lie. TankCat is roughly 85% of max power but I find it boring.) If all I can get is a condition build and be the last one standing that’s really good enough for me.

PS – All the things scaling your power build scale my condition build too. They get more HP and I get more HP. Power weapons hit harder as a percent of their base and so do mine. The only thing condition builds trade out is time. That’s not a trivial commodity but it’s not one I need to crater my enjoyment for either.

Casia.4281:

in wvw and pve, direct damage completely outpaces condition damage vs all targets.
Even high armored ones. And vs low armor it is a joke.
Hit a level 40 player with 1500 armor in WvW with 2800power and they implode.
Hit them with condition damage and… its the same as hitting a level 80.

And due to the multiple forms of + % hp buffs, in wvw. cond damage is again basically useless in wvw. realm, guild both give hp buffs. Orbs did as well.

Because stats are capped in spvp, its not as bad, and the equation is much more even.
Direct damage till mathematically outpaces condition damage. But we aren’t talking about 20k hits anymore.

Condition damage scales with level, and not gear directly.
And scales with only +duration. sortof. it also has the issue of being nullified post application.

While direct damage, has vulnerability, crit, crit damage, power, weapon damage, % damage traits. Runes that increase % damage, sigils that increase % damage.

toughness is inherently weaker then power due to the formula.
power/(toughness+armor)

Lanny.6987:

Your level 40 will die all the same to my condition build as your power build. Might take a few seconds longer but I’ll be the last one standing. I say this being more often than not the last one standing when I face 80s.

As for clearing conditions I say please do. A condition Engineer will have them all back on you in the next sec to second and a half. Clear them again. And again. (Or if you are an Engineer and have 409 then three more times after that.) Last one standing.

I have run into people I cannot kill. Two guardians, a mesmer, and a necro (almost got her). We waved and moved on. Outside of that the fights can be long but eventually their hitpoints run out and mine don’t.

I can’t get a super high power build that has any survivability on an engineer (I lie. TankCat is roughly 85% of max power but I find it boring.) If all I can get is a condition build and be the last one standing that’s really good enough for me.

PS – All the things scaling your power build scale my condition build too. They get more HP and I get more HP. Power weapons hit harder as a percent of their base and so do mine. The only thing condition builds trade out is time. That’s not a trivial commodity but it’s not one I need to crater my enjoyment for either.

Agreed!

What do you use for your CD build?

Felicela.2810:

Lanny.6987:

Your level 40 will die all the same to my condition build as your power build. Might take a few seconds longer but I’ll be the last one standing. I say this being more often than not the last one standing when I face 80s.

As for clearing conditions I say please do. A condition Engineer will have them all back on you in the next sec to second and a half. Clear them again. And again. (Or if you are an Engineer and have 409 then three more times after that.) Last one standing.

I have run into people I cannot kill. Two guardians, a mesmer, and a necro (almost got her). We waved and moved on. Outside of that the fights can be long but eventually their hitpoints run out and mine don’t.

I can’t get a super high power build that has any survivability on an engineer (I lie. TankCat is roughly 85% of max power but I find it boring.) If all I can get is a condition build and be the last one standing that’s really good enough for me.

PS – All the things scaling your power build scale my condition build too. They get more HP and I get more HP. Power weapons hit harder as a percent of their base and so do mine. The only thing condition builds trade out is time. That’s not a trivial commodity but it’s not one I need to crater my enjoyment for either.

Agreed!

What do you use for your CD build?

Me too please… are you using rune of the undead? or something else? u going turrets for extra condition hits on targets + toughness?
what do you think about this build if you’ll combine it with condition: http://www.gw2build.com/builds/gw2-engineer-turret-build-best-pvp-tournament-5357.html

It’s not my build. Blame Maskaganda [https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/members/Maskaganda-2043] for such fun.

vid 1 – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tTIWYXabmM
vid 2 – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CPqe8YvFMQ
vid 3 – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NK35ZDjmE9A

You can hunt down the threads for those where he answers some of the questions brought up about it. In conversations with him I’ve discovered he’s running some ascended gear but you can get a close approximation to his build with

0/30/10/30/0
30 – pistol distance, 20% reduced pistol cooldowns, pistol shots pierce
10 – invisible if bound
30 – reduced elixer cooldown, elixer boons last longer, might on elixer throw/drink

Elixer H, Elixer B, Elixer S, Elixer U (or C or your choice), Supply Crate

carrion trinkets/chrys jewels
rampager armor
1 carrion pistol (earth sigil), 1 knights pistol (corruption sigil)
runes of the adventurer
guild backpack of the assassin with ruby orb
plate of fire flank steak + quality tuning crystal

Since posting that equipment suggestion I’ve switched in several pieces of knight’s armor to up the toughness I’m running with. It drops the power, precision and condition damage so you’ll really have to decide based on your own circumstances if that trade-off is worth it.

Happy hunting.

Felicela.2810:

Lanny.6987:

Your level 40 will die all the same to my condition build as your power build. [Snip…]

Agreed!

What do you use for your CD build?